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I swear, this car hates me.....

Scott SScott S Supporting Member
As per my previous posts, I was so excited on how we finally got the car up and running so well. I have not had much time to drive it in the past 60 days or so, but last week at the shop I decided to fire it up and make a quick run to the store to get some drinks for the fridge at the shop. The car ran like CRAP. Again, it felt like it was hitting some sort of rev limiter, and even started to have a slight back fire again. I was not happy. As an FYI, the car only has 800 miles on it since it was built in 08. I limp it back, and forget about it until tonight. I am thinking it may be a fuel issue - maybe the car sat so long that the the tank/filter has a bunch of junk in it. I go to start it and it is being a bit stubborn (it has been really cold here). On my 3rd turn of the key I hear a click and I now have no power to anything - only the fog lights which are direct wired to the battery. Checked all the fuses - all looks fine. Pull the ignition and there is no power getting to the switch. Throw the thing on the lift - I have power to the starter by way of the direct feed from the battery. I poke around with my test light and have nothing anywhere else. Turn on the key and I have power again! Decided to check accessories so I tried to turn on the headlights - the whole car goes dead again. There are only 6 flipping fuses in the whole car. Hmmm... prior to all of this, I remember that the headlights on this car work when the key is off. Is everything routed through the headlight switch prior to going to the fuse box/ignition switch on these cars? Based on there being only one positive lead coming off of the battery, it sure appears that the current flows though the starter, back to the headlight switch then to the fuse box and ignition. I am hoping I just have a bad headlight switch causing ALL of the issues with this car. The car is a 2008 VS.
Any thoughts or direction is HUGELY appreciated - Thanks!
Scott S
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Scott SScott S Supporting Member
As per my previous posts, I was so excited on how we finally got the car up and running so well. I have not had much time to drive it in the past 60 days or so, but last week at the shop I decided to fire it up and make a quick run to the store to get some drinks for the fridge at the shop. The car ran like CRAP. Again, it felt like it was hitting some sort of rev limiter, and even started to have a slight back fire again. I was not happy. As an FYI, the car only has 800 miles on it since it was built in 08. I limp it back, and forget about it until tonight. I am thinking it may be a fuel issue - maybe the car sat so long that the the tank/filter has a bunch of junk in it. I go to start it and it is being a bit stubborn (it has been really cold here). On my 3rd turn of the key I hear a click and I now have no power to anything - only the fog lights which are direct wired to the battery. Checked all the fuses - all looks fine. Pull the ignition and there is no power getting to the switch. Throw the thing on the lift - I have power to the starter by way of the direct feed from the battery. I poke around with my test light and have nothing anywhere else. Turn on the key and I have power again! Decided to check accessories so I tried to turn on the headlights - the whole car goes dead again. There are only 6 flipping fuses in the whole car. Hmmm... prior to all of this, I remember that the headlights on this car work when the key is off. Is everything routed through the headlight switch prior to going to the fuse box/ignition switch on these cars? Based on there being only one positive lead coming off of the battery, it sure appears that the current flows though the starter, back to the headlight switch then to the fuse box and ignition. I am hoping I just have a bad headlight switch causing ALL of the issues with this car. The car is a 2008 VS.
Any thoughts or direction is HUGELY appreciated - Thanks!
Scott S
Tom BlankinshipTom Blankinship2010 Beck-Dearborn, MI
The wiring is definitely not all routed through the headlamp switch. What might be happening is that when you complete the circuit something is finding a sneak path ground through the headlamp switch. This would indicate that one one your grounds is loose. You've looked at the fuses, now take a look at the ground points. You will need a diagram for your car.
Lane AndersonLane AndersonMt. Pleasant, SC Supporting Member
I can't help with the electrical problem, but I believe that you're on the right track about the fuel. I had a similar problem with my Beck. The fuel tanks used in these cars are made in China, and the insides are unpainted. To prevent rust, they're coated with cosmoline - the same thing they used to coat cars with for delivery from the factory. This stuff dissolves in the fuel. This isn't much of a problem if you run several tanks through it fairly quickly, like you probably would in a normal car, but in one that sits a lot it's an issue, particularly with Weber carbs. The dissolved gunk clogs up the little passages and jets in the carbs and the cars runs like crap.

To fix mine, I had to remove the tank and have it cleaned out with solvent. I also replaced both fuel filters and cleaned out both carbs. Finally, I replaced as much of the fuel lines as I could. Problem solved. Wish I had an easier suggestion for you, but I'll bet this is what you'll end up doing.

You might get away with putting fuel system cleaner in the tank and driving several tanks through it, but it won't be any fun and it might not fix it.
Alan MerklinAlan MerklinDrclock - Elkins, West Virginia Supporting Member
..." Turn on the key and I have power again"

Something is probably just loose.
The VS main harness ground is located on the steering box also check that the heavy wire to the solenoid lug is tight. ( also make sure battery terminals are tight) the harness runs from the starter solenoid ( heavy red wire ) to the key switch then to the fuse box Next would be to bypass the key switch and try hard wiring those wires for test purposes. ~Alan
Lane AndersonLane AndersonMt. Pleasant, SC Supporting Member
That's usually the result of:
1. Fuel filters that need replacing.
2. Junk getting in from the top of the float chambers. CB Perf. Jet Doctors can prevent that.
3. Bad gas (water, dirt, etc.)
4. Tank liner goop as described above.

When the car sits, the goop coagulates wherever it is, and specs of stuff that normally could pass through get stuck in it. More goop and stuff builds up and you have a clog.

Almost forgot - Over time, the ethanol in fuel now will dissolve bits of your carb floats, causing clogs. Gotta love the corn lobby.
FM Former Member
As Lane and the Doctor already suggested, sometimes you just need to pull the cables, clean the battery posts and reinstall tightly, really. Happens all of the time when cars sit for a spell.

As for the stumble, change the fuel filter first off and work backwards from there.

Luck,


T
Scott SScott S Supporting Member
Thanks for all of the direction all - very very appreciated.

On the electrical issue, here is one thing I forgot to add. The car has fog lights that do not run through the fuse box. They were done very simply/cleanly in the usual way: in line fuse, hot wire from the battery to the switch, and the retur back to the actual lights. At the switch a no name brand lamp was attached to the return lead and then simply grounded to the sterring column. looks very factory and has never had any issues - pull the switch, the fogs and the dash light come on.

In regards to this electrical failure, something very weird happens. Even though the car is 100% dead, when I turn on the key, the dash light for the fog lights come on - but very dim. How can this light, which is completely removed from the cars wiring harness be getting power? The only part that touches the car is a ground wire. It is almost like there is a positive charge coming through it's ground (albeit a very slight one).

Crazy.
Scott SScott S Supporting Member
Just spoke to Kirk (what a nice guy). He thinks we either have an intermittant short, or that the main ground (where the negative battery feed connects) may have come loose. When I asked about the headlight switch, he did not think it was the culpret - but then immediately followed that up with "well, they are made in china...". I ordered one just in case. he is including a wiring diagram in the box.

I would rather have to rebuild a motor than chan chase electrical gremlins... ugh.
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
"Being that the main/only positive lead from the battery goes only to the starter prior to going anywhere else, could a bad starter or solenoid keep the current from getting any further?"

Probably not, but a dirty connection at the solenoid where the main feed for the fuse block connects could do something like that.

It's worth pulling that connection and cleaning it up - it may be a tad loose, too.

Ground faults are pretty hard to isolate on ANY car and they usually do some pretty weird things. All you can do is methodically go through and try to isolate the cause and then eliminate it. Nine times oout of ten the cause is a dirty or loose connection.
Scott SScott S Supporting Member
Well, I fixed it - I dont understand it, but I fixed it.

For some reason the ground was simply terrible. The negative cable to the main ground stud on the front beam was great. The stud was both tight and clean, yet depending on where you were on the chasis, there was simply no ground - even less than two inches away from the main grounding stud. Scraped paint, cleaned like crazy and still nothing in some places and contact on others. Finally found that attaching the negative cable to the steering box gave me enough juice to start the car. I dont understand how the frame could be such a terrible conduit - and just all of the sudden.

So, never again. I added a groung strap at the transmission like my 914-6, then I laced the frame. I bought six 24" ground cables. I attached them one at a time to the good ground I found at the steering box. I ran them under the rockers by the heater tubes on both sides of the car. When I got to the end of one cable, I drilled the frame, cleaned to metal and bolted the cable to the frame. I then added the next cable to the same bolt and continued working my way to the rear of the car. I now have a strong ground anywhere and everywhere I could test. Lights are bright and the car even seems to turn over faster.

I just done get how the ground could be so intermittant and the simply die so completely all of the sudden. It's like the frame/pan/front beam are not even touching each other as far as current flow.
J justinh
The front beam doesn't have any mounting bolts that attach directly in metal. If the beam is painted, the clamps that hold it to the chassis won't provide a good ground. Could have been that it initially cut through the paint there when it was mounted to get a ground but then as it rusts, you lose that connection.

Might have been grounding through the balljoints/steering linkage too, but that would be very unreliable if it worked at all.
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