ignition

I want to upgrade my ignition system. After reading some different posts I was leaning towards a Mallory setup (unilite distibutor w/vacuum advance & hyfire cdi box). Then I got a recommendation for a Compufire DIS-IX distributorless system that sits on top of my 009 distributor.

What are your thoughts and recommendations?
Is a CDI box preferred with the unilite distributor?

By the way, it will be going on my 2332.

thanks,
Erik

The Compufire or Pertronix set ups are extremely easy to retrofit to your existing 009 distributor and they work great with no troubles; if I were you I'd go with one of those.

Eric,
As Ricardo says the Pertronix (get the Pertronix 2) is a snap to install and works great. You will also need to replace your coil with the Pertronix higher output. You should be able to get both for around $150. One hit though dont buy the pertronix plug wires as they are a pretty crappy. The connectors for the plugs slip off easily.
Troy

Eric,

I installed the Mallory Unilite a while back. It was the Vacuum Advance model with the Grey/Grey spring upgrade for the centrifugal part of the advance. I already had an MSD 6A unit (comes standard on Henry's IM's).

I have been very satifisfied with the Mallory unit. The advance is super smooth and accurate. The first thing you notice is when you are timing it, at higher RPM it looks like you are shining a light on a stopped crank pulley. No jitter at all, no blocking of the light (which is what happens when you are not getting spark every rev on your 009).

I have worked on cars with the Petronix/Compufire modules in a 009 and I do think they are an upgrade from stock points. The problem is you still have a 009, which in my experience leave a lot to be desired.

The last time I checked, Jake Raby seemed to favor the non-Vacuum advance version (they are cheaper). I would shoot an email to both Jake Raby and to John Connelly at Aircooled.net to see what they have to say about both options.

I use a Unilite with a Hyfire VI CDI on my 2270cc Type IV. Great combo, with a good strong spark.

Jake steered me to the non-vacuum version, having, if i remember correctly, lost an engine to a failed vacuum advance mechanism forcing over-advance of the timing. Not nice.

Erik, one heads up. I just finished debugging my final issue on my Fuel Injection install today. I had a weird ignition issue where the engine would not run smoothly from 1500-2500RPM.

After trying everything, I removed my Mallory Unilite Dizzy and installed my old 009. My problem was solved. Seems the Mallory Unilite was putting some noise into the MSD such that the Tach signal output was corrupted. My ECU on my Fuel Injection could not tolerate the Tach signal out of the MSD box while I had the Mallory Dizzy in there.

So I guess I would change my endorsement of the Mallory Unilite to Carb installations, I would not recommend it for EFI, at least not all EFI. BUt I will say, it was great while I was running carbs.

Thanks for the tips!

Bill: Did you check out any crank fire setups? No cap, no rotor, no distributor and a fully programmable curve.

Bruce, I did. I bought an Electromotive Crank Pulley and Sensor (basically a Scat Pulley with a toothed wheel bolted to it), that is my next step.

Right now, I am playing with tuning stuff on the laptop, trying to get a perfect Map. The throttle response is amazing and what a joy to be able to sit in my garage (with the door open) idling without my eyes watering from unburned gas.

One thing that is striking about EFI is how precise everything is. When you are jetting carbs, everything is kind of smooth, no sharp edges, like cutting with a butter knife. When you are tuning EFI on the laptop, it is like cutting with a scalpel, you need to be careful when you are waving it around.

I will shoot you a few pics via email. Thanks again for all your help at the front end of this project, it was invaluable.

I had the compufire model that replaces the cap and coil. made my car backfire sometimes when I shut it of. Other than that it work great.

I avoid Posting, but...

Mr Steele I hate to say it, but You MAY need to buy a `tach driver' from MSD to get the EFI to work correctly with the Mallory and MSD setup..

Least it wouldn't suprise me.. Since even alot of more `modern' cars need a tach driver or two to get the factory EFI system to work, even if the MSD unit is wired in series with the coil packs/distributor..

~~~
Edit again :D

I MSD's website doesn't post it in the products section, but yet you can still buy them on a few sites..

MSD's Tach/Fuel injection apater 8920 or 8910(-EIS)

http://www.msdignition.com/downld3.htm (may take you to the manuals of the above)

Gulley: your Coil Positive lead made be hooked up with the D+ Lead of the alternator.. which keeps power going to the Ignition system when you shut of the car.. But being very weak it just does't keep running, just pops and fisses:)

you can try just discconect the D+ lead at the alternator/regulator and such off the car and see if it still does it or not.. :\ unless you tried this before then continue on :)

Kevin, thanks for the tip. I am really scratching my head tonight as the problem that went away when I removed my Mallory Unilite and installed my 009, is back. I am looking at the wiring harness as that seems to be the common thread. When I took the harness all apart to switch dizzy's and installed the 009 (with the harness laying around loose), the engine ran great. When I harnessed everything back up with the 009 still in the engine today, the tach line problem seems to be back (at least it appears to be a Tach line problem).

I will see if I can get the MSD people to sell me a Tach Adapter as I really would like to use that Unilite until I get to Crank Fire, also there is something very sensitive going on between my MSD and my ECU, so maybe a Tach Adapter will solve the problem once and for all.

Thanks again Kevin

Mallory ALso sells such items too.. (decided to look it up on their website) (sorry not p/n this time )There's a Few online companies that sell them, and the ones i listed are like $30-50ish depending where you get them..

Also you can try to get some Shielded wire to run the `tach' input for the ECU.. (the wire usually wraped in Tin foil) or do a twisted pair setup ??

Also the FI system your using does control timing doesn't it?? (if i remember your using the MS FI system?) just wondering since you said you're gonna go crank fired :)

Kevin, thanks again. I will also check out the Mallory site. The wire I have going from the Tach output to the ECU is shielded and grounded, so I don't think I am getting a lot of noise on the wire itself. That lends weight to your theory of the MSD itself being the primary source of the incompatibility.

I do plan to go to Crank Fire soon. I wanted to limited the number of things I was dealing with in each phase of my install to try and keep the number of things that can go wrong managable, from my most recent troubles, I think that might have been a good choice, besides, I don't want all this stuff to end too soon, I am having way too much fun.

Ultimately, I will be running Megasquirt II w/V3, Electromotive Crank Wheel Trigger and a stepper IAC.

Kevin: Thanks for the info. I had the ignition on a custom bug I had some time back. Never figured it out before I sold it.

Kevin, your post last night really got me thinking. Checked the ECU, it was setup for VR - Variable Reluctor. Switched it to HS - Hall Sensor (and everything else as well, regular points, Mallory Unilite, etc.) and guess what, Tach signal woes are gone! Thanks for the help.

Steele: Well least it was an easy fix :) To bad you didn't live closer, be cool to check it out after it's all done..
The thing i just do not like about the MS ECU, so far, is the injectors are fire in batches.. i kinda like the whole sequiental thing :)

i never seen listed a O2 sensor for closed loop operation :P but the IAC i like.. and would make cold start ups even nicer :)

Kevin, in the material I have read, there is little to be gained with sequential injection, at least at the level of tune our engines are developed (the choices in induction hardware and head architecture being what they are).

Of course, if you wait for Ultra Megasquirt you can have your cake and eat it too. I am running a narrow band O2 right now (not real effective), but have an Innovate LC-1 that I will eventually get hooked up. Once I have WB O2, I will be able to get things really dialed.

As far as seeing it in person, who knows, maybe we can get together on a build in the future. Of course, that will have to be Turbo/EFI.

Thanks again for your help.

Well i think in a performance wise the gain is little, but emissions i think it does.. but i kinda like how some ECUs can be program/adapt to control the A/F per cylinder... Narrow band O2s are cool if you have one of those autometer A/F guages.. it's a cool light show at idle on a Closed loop car :)

Ahh Turboed adn FI'ed 356 is something i like to see or build (but thats a different thread labeled `if money was no object' .. surposely there's a few turboed F4 356 repicas out there thou?? :)

and your welcome even thou i can't see where i helped out :/

Kevin, actually the help you gave was your suggestion on the Tach Adapter. You see I had read in the Megasquirt Manual about the VR (Variable Reluctor) tach signal versus the HS (Hall Sensor) Tach signal and then forgot about it. The VR is an AC like signal and needs to be converted to the square wave output like regular points give. The Hall Sensor option is used for Regular Points, Optical Triggers (like a Mallory Unilite) and of course a Hall Effect Sensor. My ECU was jumpered for VR so the ECU was expecting the VR type signal and getting false triggers. A change to the HS jumper location fixed it (essentially what a tach adapter would have done), so thanks.

Remember, if you plan to install that ECU that supports sequential injection, you will need the ability to sense the cam position not just crank position. There is a great write-up on Batch, Bank and Sequential Injection on the Megasquirt site.

this FI stuff should be moved to a new FI topic :P

and TDC1 is somewhat easy to do thou, even on a Typ 1 :) Modifying a Hall effect distributor can do it :) and since you won't be needing it to fire the coil/spark anymore.. it's all good :)

Too bad fords EDIS modules are spendy.. else DIS would be cool.. Hmm now convert to GMC Camaro/corvette ignition setup.. (the coil-per-cylinder, sorry still ain't COP if there's still a plug WIRE :) )

Also I would want to Run my dream car off of a Ford ECU ('96+ EEC-V, with built in DIS and OBD2 compatable :) ) Adding a MAF wouldn't be a problem if running a turbo too :)