ignition and turn signal switches removal

Now I'm feeling guilty, Art. It was  because of me you were looking at your front suspension...

Al;

 

You didn't build this. No worries!

Art

OK, let's see what help we can provide:

 

 

I imagine in VW, both switches are plug and play (true), all the documents I have read, tell you to just unplug the switches from the wiring harness plug (true - the ignition connector is inside of the steering column), (not in this CMC).  So how do remove these, that are wired thru the housing.  There is no access to the connection terminals.  Pulling hard would only complicate matters (also true). 

 

You must first remove the steering wheel to gain access to the directional switch and, once that is removed, the ignition switch.  Sounds like something is loose inside of the housing and did some damage when you were turning the steering wheel around to get access to the front wheel.  Often, the steering wheel lock pin gets snapped off and floats around in there and causes damage - don't know if that's your case, just noting it.

 

Once the steering wheel is removed (to do that you'll need a steering wheel puller), you remove a circlip and plastic bushing from inside the steering column and the directional lever/switch should lift out to the extent of the attached wires (you may be able to move it more by gaining more slack in the wire group under the dash).  Check for burn marks, loose connections or any obvious damage.

 

Once the directional switch is up and out of the way, you'll be able to see the switch/connector on the back side of the ignition switch as well as the ignition lock retainer plate.  On your '73 you should be able to pry the ignition switch/connector apart from the lock with a small screw driver without messing with the lock.  If you need to remove the actual lock, there should be a small (1/8") hole on the side of the cylinder housing, about mid-way on the housing tube and about 10 o'clock when looking at the key end of the cylinder.  Push a piece of wire into the hole, insert the key and turn the key and cylinder clockwise 90 degrees and the cylinder should come right out.

 

 

BTW, the turn signal indicator light is driven off of the turn signal relay, but THAT is driven from the turn signal switch.  Sounds like something has happened to that switch (not the ignition switch) so I would look there first.

 

this started, when I was turning the front wheels to look for Macphersons struts, (ignition off, key in my pocket [Bad - Very Bad]), and sparks flew out the ignition key housing.  The only damage, thus far is the left turn flashing indicator,located on the tach face, doesn't work in either left turn mode or emerg. mode ( physical lights operate though).

 

Well, no......If you quickly turned the steering wheel with the key out but the steering wheel lock wasn't engaged when you started turning, then you've probably broken off the locking pin inside of the column and THAT has done some damage to the turn signal switch.

Gordon

 

Steering wheel is off, including next, 27mm nut and a compression washer perhaps, then the boss for the Nardi. Then directional signal, held in by 4 very small machine screws, is out, there was no clip or bushing holding the turn signal in place but both are taught due to lack of slack in the wires. Removed the lock container plate.  The wires under the dash are tight, can't create any slack.  The turning switch I was just barely able to pull it out from the housing the, ignition key will only pull towards me about 3/4". The connector is not visible.

 

 

I think it depends on the year of the parts. I know in the late model column, there are 3 plugs that connect the ignition switch, turn signals, and wipers. Those plugs are right at the back edge of the outer column housing (the part with the ignition switch).

 

On earlier cars with the ignition in the column, I think the wires just pass through the housing directly from from the switches to the fuse box with no connectors, but don't quote me on that. If so, you may have to disconnect the wires at the fuse panel, relays, or wherever else they terminate to get things out.

 

I actually had something similar happen on my beetle once. Part of the horn contact broke loose and started shorting out everything in the column. Horn and blinkers were going crazy with every movement of the wheel until I could get it home and pull the chunk out.

Yes, Justin, I have a '67 column and switch. The turn switch wires go all the way to the turn relay and dash ground. I label with paper tape where they go, plus take a cellphone picture whenever I remove any wires. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy!

Art,

 

Can you see where the wires exit the shaft?

 

See if you can find where the wires exit the column. See if they are zip tied to keep them tight and tidy.

 

Can you take some photos of what you're looking at? Maybe someone else has the same column.

 

It should not be a sealed system. Take peace in knowing that the whole thing had to be assembled at some point. If it was assembled, then it can be disassembled.

 

T

Gordon and et al.  Removed the large hex bolts that hold the housing, up, ultimately to the cross member. Now able to create slack and remove the ignition switch.  Justin As you suggested it runs all the way back to relay / power sources.  Suspect I'll be able to do the same with the turn signal switch.  More later.  Note, now that I have gone thru about half of the under dash wiring, Gordon, remember my earlier relay problems,  there is easily  3X as much wire as need be. Many, many strands with ends folded and taped off.  A few more outings like this and I'll develop enough confidence to re wire to whole mess under the dash.

 

The ignition is clean and continuty checks, so on to the turnsignal.

 

And is everyone's fuse panel, if you can call it that, on the cabin side of the front firewall, almost impossible to get to for fuse check.  Why isn't located on the trunk side of this firewall out of the swarm of wiring?

 

Thanks to all.  Art 

oooooh........Sounds like they re-used the original VW wiring harness so, yes, you'll have a lot of excess wires and length.  That was probably easier for them than to cut the wires and re-crimp with low-quality crimps.

 

I started out with a basic VW sedan harness, and then modified the hell out of it for what I wanted.  In the end, I used a fuse/relay panel from a Stirling something-or-other (from a salvage yard) and mounted it in the trunk in front of the driver.  I then had PLENTY of tab-style fuse positions and six relays to work with - really nice and clean.

Thanks for the help everyone. Once I pulled everything out of the steering column, I could find nothing wrong, (kinks, bare wire, fried wire, fried chicken, and most important no extra pieces floating around in there).  Replaced the ignition switch, put the new one in the dash.  Fired it up and all lights and indicator lights work.  With that left hand indicator light being out originally, I was thinking, it got cooked. But nope all's good!.

It gets easier as time goes by....  These cars are really quite simple in nature....   (With the exceptions of a few " TO THE WALL" performance types. )

It's magic.

 

When you got those parts out into fresh air, the magic was renewed.

 

My son's carburetor-fearing friends think that's how it works on carburetors, too....

No magic, would be if I had cholesterol numbers like you. Good for you!

BTW, I found 7+ wires under the dash, w/ taped labels "do not use"

!

 

Well that's alarming.   What do they look like? Snap a photo of them, I wonder if they are part of the harness and were just never used. Some of these builders get at 'Summit' racing harness and with the simplicity of these cars, they don't need the entire harness.

 

I'd be interested to trace them back as far as you could.

 

** AH! I just read Gordon's earlier reply. Interesting I wonder what they would go to?. **

T

Oh, and now I'm scared to see what evil lurks under my dash!  Remember, I've never actually seen my car!

 

HA!

 

Ted

I've got a column ignition switch.  I' like to replace it with one in dash ( which I have bought but not gotten to yet).  Any helpful hints? I think my tub is a '68.

Frank

Frank,

 

The wiring is not too difficult. Switches on the terminal (back side) are labeled by numbers, ie 15 , 30, 50, 75.  In my case, I aligned the ones that matched, and then there was only one unknown.  As you know, remember to disconnect your black battery terminal before doing any wiring changes. (Listen to me, the guy that had sparks fly from his ignition switch).

 

The other issue is, our cars being molded glass, the back sides of dashboards are curved and it is hard to hold, the switch square, while trying to thread the capturing nut on the front side of the dash.

 

Someone far more astute will certainly pipe in here.

Thanks Art.  I've already had the pleasure of doing just that behind the dash.  I was wondering how to know which wires are which if I don't go all the way up the column plus I have a Bosch ignition switch.  Hopefully the numbers on the back are kind of standard so they' ll transfer etc.  You know, coil, positive etc.

Frank;

Search this site for Bosch Ignition switch. There is a great post and labelled pic of the terminals on a Bosch. Posted by : pauleric

 

I actually l lowered the steering wheel,  removed the old VW, ( Nieman, manufacture) switch, cut the wires and pulled them back into the under dash area. Matched the numbers up using that post by pauleric  as confirmation guide.

I normally go here: Bosch Terminal Designations for terminal identification. Bosch stuff is standardized on these designations, but many other manufacturers also use these same terminal numbers.

 

Combine those with the wiring diagrams on thesamba.com and you can pretty well figure out most of the electrics in these cars. The difficult part, as always, is year of parts is often unknown and mismatched.

Justin;

 

You're very correct, thanks.  So far I've run across 914 switches from 1970-1976.  VW 1968, VW 1973, Type 411 and others I've forgotten about.

Thanks a lot Justin and Art.  I'll do just as you suggest.  Sounds pretty straightforward.

Frank