Ignition Problem

Wow. Brake failures! What were the issues?

@JoelP

It wasn't a total brake failure... 1 rear caliper on two different occasions had a leak 1st the right side then 1 year later the left side we replaced both at no charge to Jim.

The brake system on all of my cars is a dual circuit system so he had loss of pedal pressure for the rear brakes this resulted in a low brake pedal as the front brakes only worked.

@jprpdr

You might have a defective coil please call Anna tomorrow and we can send you one out no charge to you.

Greg

Www.vintagemotorcarsinc.com

Roger. Thanks for that clarification.

Talk about customer service! Greg stands behind his products!

I should have mentioned the dual braking system. It allowed me to get home (safely, but slowly) both times.

I seem to recall there was a previous coil problem which related to the tachometer.

Cars are just mechanical devices and are certainly not perfect. Problems can be expected. Greg does his best to solve them, and  keep Speedsters running safely.

Jim Ruiz

Los Angeles, CA 90045

Greg is great. He’s been over the top helpful with mine.

We've seen more than one CB Magna Spark failure in both the coil as well as the internal ignition module.  I've seen some come loose and stop working properly due to gap, and I've seen others that had some sort of heat related problem and would stop working after about 20-30 minutes of driving and then work again once they cooled off a bit.  The later being the more difficult to pinpoint due to the time/temp aspect of things.  Obviously I am not diagnosing your issue, but just something to keep in mind as your time sitting and on the flatbed may have been enough "cool off" time to be your resolution and the wiping not related...

@VSpyder posted:

@JoelP

It wasn't a total brake failure... 1 rear caliper on two different occasions had a leak 1st the right side then 1 year later the left side we replaced both at no charge to Jim.

I assume the leak was past the piston seal on both calipers?  If the seal, seal ring groove or piston were defective a leak would occur right away.  But in your case the leaks did not develop until a significant amount of time had passed, which seems odd to me. Perhaps trapped water created a corrosion problem?

Was there a postmortem performed and if so, what were the results?

I'm planning to drive my VMC Speedster from Katy, Texas to Fountain Valley, CA in September and I'm trying anticipate any problem areas. And I was hoping to exclude the braking system from my list of concerns, hence all my questions.

Jason

@chines1 posted:

We've seen more than one CB Magna Spark failure in both the coil as well as the internal ignition module.  I've seen some come loose and stop working properly due to gap, and I've seen others that had some sort of heat related problem and would stop working after about 20-30 minutes of driving and then work again once they cooled off a bit.  The later being the more difficult to pinpoint due to the time/temp aspect of things.  Obviously I am not diagnosing your issue, but just something to keep in mind as your time sitting and on the flatbed may have been enough "cool off" time to be your resolution and the wiping not related...

When I had my original engine in my Speedster I replaced the distributer and coil with a MagnaSpark and dry pack coil. I developed an issue with the engine having issues running properly. Mine didn't just shut off completely but it ran really rough above anything other than an idle. I'd park for 10 minutes and it would run well for 5 minutes then it would run rough again. I repeated this process until I got home. It was the coil having issues when it got really hot. I got a new coil and it ran fine for years. When I had Pat build my new engine I went with a new MagnaSpark but instead of the dry pack coil I went with an oil filled Flame Thrower coil because I was replicating an SC Super 90 motor and it ran very well for many years.

@chines1 posted:

We've seen more than one CB Magna Spark failure in both the coil as well as the internal ignition module.  I've seen some come loose and stop working properly due to gap, and I've seen others that had some sort of heat related problem and would stop working after about 20-30 minutes of driving and then work again once they cooled off a bit.  The later being the more difficult to pinpoint due to the time/temp aspect of things.  Obviously I am not diagnosing your issue, but just something to keep in mind as your time sitting and on the flatbed may have been enough "cool off" time to be your resolution and the wiping not related...

I had two Magna spark coils and two internal ignition modules fail out of the box. Finally got an ignition module that worked and I went back to a Bosch coil that I had languishing amongst my spares. No problems since.

Frustrating.

So...

I've got a MagnaSpark ignition sitting on the 2234, as well as a pickup on the crank pulley for the future (and inevitable) EFI/crank-fire. The plan was to break the engine in with MagnaSpark and then make the switch.

However... this weekend I was driving my car (with the 2110 and 034/blue coil), when the car died a couple of times. It acted very much like somebody shut off the key: the tach went to 0, and it just coasted down. The engine restarted, but I'm 99% sure I've got a bad coil or points replacement module (most likely coil).

I'll be moving the MagnaSpark ignition over to the 2110... with some modifications. I helped Bob Garrett through his bad module/bad coil experiences, and have the following observations:

The primary resistance on the dry-pack coil is 1.2 ohms. This is pretty low for an ignition module without any protection (the blue coil is 3 ohms). I know it comes as a matched set, but I'm thinking this one might not have been as carefully baked as other "matched sets" in the world. I suspect the modules are frying because the coil is too hot. Other people (named Bob Garrett) have proven that the setup is reliable with a colder coil. Back in the day running a hotter coil without burning up points or a pickup module meant using a ballast resistor - something which provides full power on startup, and cuts power to the primary as the coil warms up. As such, I've got a 1.2 ohm ballast resistor coming to try to protect the module (1.2 ohms on the coil + 1.2 ohms on the ballast resistor = 2.8 ohms, which is close enough for Rock-n-Roll).

Moving to the main source of the problem, the coil provided with the CB kit is (apparently) garbage for quality in addition to being too hot for the module to live a long/happy life. Over on TheSamba, it's reported that the coil is a Chinese coil that crosses to a 1990- 1993 Mitsubishi Mighty Max pickup truck replacement. A bit of digging revealed that NGK made a coil for this engine (the Mighty Max mighty 2.5 I4) until a couple of years ago. Jegs has 5 left, and I've ordered 2 of them (Summit is out and I always buy spares of things I really need). There are Standard and Delco coils floating around out there and Amazon has a $20 China-coil available, but 1993 was 30 years ago so the known-to-be-decent ones are starting to dry up.

The problem is that I can't find any specs for the coils I'm ordering, so I'm just trusting that a TheSamba know-it-all does indeed know it all. I'll check the primary and secondary winding resistance when I get the parts and let you know - but I can tell you for sure that I'm not going to trust something that's been proven to be a problem (the CB coils). I'll run a canister coil first.

If I ran through a CDI box, I could run a much hotter coil for a lot less money, but the CB module doesn't play with the box I'd like to use, so I'm just going to bite the bullet and pay $100 for a coil.

Hopefully, the plan works, and I can run this for the remainder of the season and then take it off, put it back on the 2234 and put that engine in the car for a cam break-in.

Thanks again for the help Stan.

The first thing I changed to my VS when I bought it was having an electric fuel pump and Magnaspark installed.

It ran like a top for a while.  Until it didn’t.  The motor would just stop as though the key was turned off.

It was the coil.

I had a crank fire from the Dub Shop installed.  Zero issues since then.

CB Magna Spark system . . .  well shyt.  And here I thought I was doing a really good thing.  Everybody said so.  So I got the whole system with their coil too. Was told CB double checked everything with these units when they come off the boat, and fix 'em up just so.  Hmmm . . . So this was Installed with all the other stuff that went down this spring.  really seems to be an improvement over my old 009 and bosch coil.  Have not run it much at all yet <100 miles.  Starts in a flash and runs smooth, gret idle. Sounds like maybe I should not have tossed my old coil??

I know you'se guys are tired of me extolling the virtues of crankfire ignition, but it's absolutely accurate compared to regular points or electronic points ignition. You add a crank sensor so the computer knows where TDC is, tell it how much advance you want at any RPM, add a relatively modern coil (I use a Bosch unit from a 2000 VW Golf), and never worry about it again.

When I did the rebuild on my old IM, I set it up with Speeduino controlling the ignition using a CB Performance crank sensor. I didn't replace the Kadrons with EFI for a couple of years. You can stop with just the ignition setup.

There are lots of crankfire setups out there. I went with Speeduino because it was so inexpensive compared to what I'd been using before on other cars.

@El Frazoo posted:

CB Magna Spark system . . .  well shyt.  And here I thought I was doing a really good thing.  Everybody said so.  So I got the whole system with their coil too. Was told CB double checked everything with these units when they come off the boat, and fix 'em up just so.  Hmmm . . . So this was Installed with all the other stuff that went down this spring.  really seems to be an improvement over my old 009 and bosch coil.  Have not run it much at all yet <100 miles.  Starts in a flash and runs smooth, gret idle. Sounds like maybe I should not have tossed my old coil??

Great that it is working for you!!!

You might just pack a spare coil in the frunk in case it acts up. Easy to replace.

@Michael Pickett posted:

There are lots of crankfire setups out there. I went with Speeduino because it was so inexpensive compared to what I'd been using before on other cars.

Mike: I of course agree as I did the same thing. Ran ignition only before pulling the carbs and going the full injection route. I'd been looking at it for a couple years before you did yours. Your success convinced me to "send it" myself. Not going back, either. It runs too good!

P.S.: thanks for your programming/mapping/tuning help!

@DannyP posted:

P.S.: thanks for your programming/mapping/tuning help!

Just following the example of most of the generous folks on this forum!

It's what we do here.

I think it'd be fun for someone to adapt a modern coil-on-plug ignition setup to the type 1. The engine tin "ledge" just below the intake manifold would offer a handy mounting point.

@edsnova posted:

I think it'd be fun for someone to adapt a modern coil-on-plug ignition setup to the type 1. The engine tin "ledge" just below the intake manifold would offer a handy mounting point.

With the way the spark plugs are NOT recessed on a VW, coil near plug is the best you can do without a lot of effort. Modern 4 valve per cylinder/central plug/DOHC engines make the coil on plug thing easy. I'm sure you could do coil on plug on a type1/4, but it's not necessary.

Mike and I both used a VW Golf/Jetta coil from the early 2000s, and simply ran spark plug wires just like VW did.

So...you're saying that to make the CoP thing easy, we'd just need to redesign the heads as a 4-valve/DOHC?

@Stan Galat are you listening?

@edsnova posted:

So...you're saying that to make the CoP thing easy, we'd just need to redesign the heads as a 4-valve/DOHC?

@Stan Galat are you listening?

I'm guessing he was thinking 4 cams.

You may be surprised to learn that I'm a pushrod guy with these engines. OHC means timing belts, etc. and that's just a mess on a flat engine.

See?! I'm totally sane.

@Stan Galat posted:

See?! I'm totally sane.

Hmmm

@Stan Galat posted:

You may be surprised to learn that I'm a pushrod guy with these engines. OHC means timing belts, etc. and that's just a mess on a flat engine.

We don' need no stupid timing belts!

P. S. Note the toothed pulley for crankfire ignition!

There are many ways up the mountain.

"There are many ways up the mountain, little grasshopper."

I guess I'll run the MagnaSpark thing until it does not run no more.  At which juncture I'll suppose crank-fire will be the next fix.

@El Frazoo  don't let all of our Magna Spark talk scare you.  Obviously it's nice to be informed of the potential and it allows you to have spare parts on hand and possibly avoid a flatbed, but I have 100s of engines out there with CB's Magna Spark that have zero issues.  When I see a "cluster" of issues, it may be 4-5 failures over a few years, which equates to roughly 5% failure rate.

I must ask: apart from their obnoxiously high price, is there a reason I don’t see more MSD ignition systems on speedsters? I’ve seen them on a few, but they’re exceedingly rare; in the classic American muscle world, it’s almost impossible to open a hood and find anything else.

@JoelP posted:

I must ask: apart from their obnoxiously high price, is there a reason I don’t see more MSD ignition systems on speedsters? I’ve seen them on a few, but they’re exceedingly rare; in the classic American muscle world, it’s almost impossible to open a hood and don’t anything else.

Great question; I'm keen to hear the responses on this one, too!

Jason

@JoelP, I have had zero issues with my Mallory system.

So clean and bright. Thats an amazing engine bay. How did you mount your system that high against the firewall? As my speedster's new, I haven't had to get under it much yet and don't know the access limitations yet, but I can't imagine it was easy.

When I first bolted my first car together it had an 009 distributor with a Pertronix ignitor in it. I added a Mallory Hyfire6 capacitive discharge(CD) unit to it, which improved the idle smoothness and power up to around 3k. The multiple sparks stops somewhere about there, and becomes basically what you had before but maybe at a higher voltage. All good stuff.

I put a timing light on it, and the mark was all over the place at 3k(both before and after the CD unit). It was plus AND minus 5 degrees. Very, very poor spark control.

At that point I was fed up. But having a Porsche 911 fan and shroud there simply isn't room for anything bigger than an 009. All the good distributors are bigger, be it Magnaspark, Pertronix, MSD, or Mallory. The first two weren't even available around 2005 or so.

So what's a guy to do? Research and rabbit-hole entered.

I discovered Megajolt, an offshoot of the Megasquirt DIY injection project. Megajolt is a standalone crank fire ignition using Ford late 80s to 90s components: VR sensor, 36-1 trigger wheel, controller, and coilpack. All that stuff for $60 from a junkyard Escort, including a throttle position sensor.

The coilpack for a 4 cylinder has two coils and runs in wasted spark mode. It fires each cylinder every TDC, hence wasted spark. It fires on the power stroke and also after the exhaust cycle but before the intake cycle. To do full sequential requires a cam sensor.

I ordered a circuit board, a pre-burned chip, and case from the designer, Brent Picasso. I also got a bill of parts from Digi-Key and soldered it up. My total outlay including machining was less than $200.

Then I took my crank pulley to the machine shop along with the trigger wheel and got them machined and mated. I made a bracket for the VR sensor. Installed it all and wired it up.

After a few maps, I continuously refined that ignition curve for a few years until it was spot-on perfect.

Crankfire gives transformative performance. Rock solid idle. Power everywhere, and smooth. No more pinging. I would say it was as good as carbs could ever be.

Infinitely adjustable and accurate to 1/10 of a degree per revolution. It is the way forward with these lawnmower engines.

I got the same exact performance when I changed to Speeduino control.

Distributors are so last century. Points are two centuries ago.

P.S. the Mallory Hyfire6 uses tiny rotary switches to set your Rev-cut.

A hard Rev limit is a REALLY good idea, especially with engines that love to rev and hooning drivers that rev them.

The MSD stuff requires you to buy an rpm "pill" for each rpm you pick. $20 a pop 20 years ago. That's just stupid.

T-shirt idea for east coast mountain trip:

To hoon or not to hoon:

Is that even a question?

Oooo, I like that!

WTF? RPM pill for each you pick? What picking? I’m already annoyed at it.

@JoelP, there were no issues mounting things,  To conceal wires I ran them thru holes in the firewall and then back out where they connected.  I did need a long coil wire.

Thanks @Michael McKelvey Gathering pics and specs for my winter projects list. DC gets cold starting in mid/late October. So trying to spec out everything I want done to make my 2024 driving season fantastic.