IM 2006/SAMBA

Well, it is listed by a dealer, so I'm not surprised by the price. A newly rebuilt Subie? There is a story in there somewhere. No mention of mileage. 

Wonder  if the tranny was changed to a 3:44?

"a flat four hanging out the back just like the original did". .... except it's a Subie 

Love the seat color but it's been driven, 36,000 miles? Way over priced imo

WNGD posted:

Way over priced imo

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Replicating a car like this for yourself would cost at least $10,000 more than he’s asking.

The world is changing. 

Stan Galat posted:

WNGD posted:

Way over priced imo

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Replicating a car like this for yourself would cost at least $10,000 more than he’s asking.

The world is changing. 

11 years old, lots of miles on her (to the average at least). I wonder how old that Subie motor was (donor or crate)? You're comparing what it would cost today vs an 11 year old car so it's a good deal? There's another poster on here that likes to do that 

Perhaps I should have said over priced to me. Wait, I did say imo ....

I do agree with you Stan that times are changing and a lot of that is even recently. Used VS have gone from low 20's for something that needs work to mid 20's for a well sorted example to those now reaching for low 30's. But from what I've seen, most of the higher range are starting to sit awhile. Lots of cars being re-listed over and over again...Perhaps some sanity is starting to reach the market again?

Well I would like to see it in the flesh before I pass judgement because the quality of the conversion may not be to spec.  Also a turbo produces way more heat so it may or may not have an auxiliary pump.   

Lastly, I sold my 2004 IM 3 years ago and it needed some bright work done new roof etc etc so there are simply a lot of things to consider then there is the madness of making it perfect and all of a sudden you spent the same amount or more and you still have a compromise... just saying  

Regarding the market.... when there is enough supply the price will come down on IM's but as it stands to get a better price you need to walk away till the owner has his delusion pierced by a car that is not selling.  As far as it selling to someone well there is always a guy named Tucker out there .... simply think of that builder who takes deposits and does not deliver a car for 8 years... my 2 ¢

IM used/preowned inventory is always very small.....the product is such that owners either do NOT want to sell, or that they are bought up quickly, which keeps inventory down. Obviously condition is paramount, but the cost of a new car always has an influence on used car prices......as the alternative to used IS NEW, or another builder's car. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...regardless of the parameters in play and the heart wants what the heart wants.

So....pick your poison....new/used/old/dead/buried/patina/4/6/SUBIE/VW/PORSCHE. My mother once told me,"bite off MORE than you can chew and chew it". She is a strong 87 and can kick ass

I know the original owner of this car, and spoke to the selling dealer last Summer.  The original owner started with an air cooled engine and used it as a daily driver for a few years in Southern California.  He "upgraded" to the Subaru engine as it was more friendly for daily driving.  Between his ownership and this selling dealer having the car - the engine overheated which is what caused the need for the rebuild (or so I was told by the dealer).  They've had it a while - so I'd wager they are flexible on the price. 

Aren’t the price now for VW engines around 27 and up and subi around 35 and up? Seems to be market ?

Non-original motor (I get it's less of an issue than other cars) - that already had to be rebuilt because it overheated.  There are a couple super low mileage IM's for sale now in the $40's...this one has some history that I believe knocks down the price some!

I don't see the point of a turbo in these. Seems like they're a bear to cool, plus you can't use the power anyway. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Ed, 

I hope our paths cross someday.  I'll give you a ride, and see if "you can't use the power anyway".  We're never too old for more power!

Jim Kelly posted:

Ed, 

I hope our paths cross someday.  I'll give you a ride, and see if "you can't use the power anyway".  We're never too old for more power!

I regret that I have but one "like" to give to this comment.

^^^ What Uncle Stan said! ^^^

Someone once said something to the effect that there's "never too much power- only the point in which the car breaks in half!"

Mine is a 2003, but I have extensively gone through it and upgraded it along the way... I have well over $40k in it. I hope when the day comes I can re-coupe most of my cost. So as far as I am concerned - the price is great.  :-)

^^^...or like the infamous SOCer, Angela Lane, once posted...'aerodynamics is for those without enough horsepower'. 

@MotoCarlo Well Carlo you can't go wrong if you keep it long enough  

Honestly, think about it ... you walked in a used IM that needed work and you like doing stuff as your like me slightly OCD... no a lot OCD and your skills show it so if you have had some fun and you keep it for 5 years you should essentially get your funds back out.  

As you know, Labour seems to continue to climb for all hand built things so anyone with a good used purchase send to enjoy their vehicle for a yearly cost that is much lower than a DD... on the other hand if the madness gets you .... you can be done in quite quickly  

Stan Galat posted:

Jim Kelly posted:

Ed, 

I hope our paths cross someday.  I'll give you a ride, and see if "you can't use the power anyway".  We're never too old for more power!

I regret that I have but one "like" to give to this comment.

Very True Stan....

Now on facebook I keep looking for the One Dislike or more... never seem to find it and the fact that the business can block your comments is not helpful either  

Stan Galat posted:

Jim Kelly posted:

Ed, 

I hope our paths cross someday.  I'll give you a ride, and see if "you can't use the power anyway".  We're never too old for more power!

I regret that I have but one "like" to give to this comment.

I'm with Jim, Stan, and Al on this one. 

Nothing wrong with more horses...giddy up and go.

@Bob: IM S6- Good morning Bob!

Ray, I was "lucky" to have some real a-hole bosses when I did carpentry and cabinetry as a kid . Good ol' southern hard-asses. But they were dedicated to not just doing it right, but to doing an excellent job. So ...not sure about the ocd moniker(but I do recognize a compliment -thks).  It's more of a dedication to doing top quality work. (Why I appreciate Henry's work.)

Sorry for the thread drift. ;-)

I had a father.... carpenter, cabinet maker, just outright craftsmen, contractor, who kept telling me stories of his dad, my grandfather and how he was just such a perfectionist and under fear of death he had to make sure he did the job right and when they were building their house and barn even controlling the horse had to be done just so.  Anyway, once, I saw my dad cut a 4x8 sheet on the long end with a hand saw and he then proceeds to look at the cut edge and he says to me, looks pretty good to me what do you think Ray? 

I line up m eye on the edge to look at it and it was a complete straight line no deviation, no bur, no wave.  Hand saw better than a table saw today. 

Needless to say, we would walk into some house sand my dad would in an instant tell me to look there did you see the wave in the soffit or whatever. 

So it is hard to not become more fastidious when your living in that guys shadow. 

Unfortunately, I lost him to the drink way too early. 

With all this I could not help to get a love of quality workmanship as well...

If I played more guitar I might venture into your high end stuff but I will leave that to my son who is becoming quite a guitarist.

I hope sincerely to take you up on that, Jim. And, no offense intended, but I stand by my statement. If I remember right, didn't it take you like two years and the GNP of Bolivia to sort the cooling system in that thing? Apologies if I'm wrong.

Now, a 2.5 N/A Sube is good for an easy 185 horses. That's more than sufficient for a Speedster, even a fat one with three layers of Dynamat throughout and a 60-lb subwoofer that for some reason someone installed. You're in 0-60-in-under-5-seconds territory already. More than that and you need—NEED, I say!—ludicrous Porsche-sourced suspension components. 

With a turbo, the practicality (such as it is) goes out of the car. You can't use the power, as in: at the top of second gear, you've got to slow down, according to the law. At the top of third, you've got to slow down, according to the reality of the chassis and the lift the body is developing. You can't ever even shift into 4th gear in anger.

Unless your whole thing is drag racing. 

And don't get me wrong. I love me some drag racing. 

But, for me, the whole idea of a Speedster, Spyder, MG, Sunbeam, Jaguar, Triumph, Z-car, etc. is not drag racing. You can make one into a drag racer, sure. I will applaud the effort. I just can't agree with it. 

I'm actually in agreement with Ed here. For every chassis, there is a tipping point where more power is a detriment to performance, safety, handling, braking. To paraphrase Clint, "a CHASSIS has got to know it's limitations", as does the driver of said chassis.

I'm at 172 hp in a 1500 pound trailing arm, swing axle car. Right at and/or slightly over the chassis limit. A turbo motor in a conventionally-suspended Spyder? Asking for death.

Marty has the full 911 package in his IM along with Suby power. A good fit IMHO.

Bob has the same chassis with a REALLY nice flat6 in there. Another good fit.

The power HAS to match the chassis.

I'm sure Jim can explain the suspension in his SAW/SAS, as I'm not familiar.

A turbo anything in a pan chassis Speedster? A fool's errand.

For me the real issue is the throttle working like a light switch,... turn it on and.....  HOLD ON TO YOUR STEERING WHEEL, seat whatever till the chute comes out ..  

Your estimate is close, Ed.  It was more like 3 years to "sort it out".  Don't you just love that phrase?  It makes it sound like the normal course of action, something we should all expect to do.  Not sure what the GNP of Bolivia is, but I'm sure I'm close.

There's just something about that light sheen of sweat that I suddenly feel when I really punch it that makes all the effort worthwhile.  I have no intention of crashing and burning, but I'd rather wear out than rust out.  I am also glad that I persevered and corrected the faults.  

My car, with my 220 lb (more or less) body in it weighs 2400+, depending on fuel.  Power/weight ratio is not far off from Danny.  I dynoed at about 330 HP & torque, but we all know how unreliable dynos are.  I actually drive fairly conservatively, but there have been a few times when I succumbed to a juvenile challenge.  I'm not skilled enough to drive the car anywhere near its capability, but it's a very fast street car.

Suspension was fair to good from SAS as delivered, much of it stock from 08 Integra donor.  I upgraded to quality, top & bottom adjustable coilovers x 4, and had custom rear suspension linkage made so I can adjust rear camber, an improvement not offered on 08 Subi's.  4 pot front Wilwood and 2 pot rear Wilwood brakes with ABS make it stop quickly and straight.  Mid-engine layout is pretty neutral and forgiving.

My car is not all things to all people.  I know that, and I'm o.k. with it.  It still turns my crank when I turn the key.  You know the old saying: Fast cars, fast boats, and fast women, and one out of three ain't bad!

@Jim Kelly scobiturbo 👍 once that boost goes on it just put a nice smile in your face 

Jim was that 3 years for the cooling issue or all together?

Jim Kelly is a gentleman and a scholar, and very tough to boot (as demonstrated by his perseverance). He deserves all happiness and if the turbo turns his crank then I stand corrected as to my hard and fast rule. Or at least, there's the exception. 

Ray,  I spent 3 years fixing things that shouldn't have needed fixing, including the cooling problems.  With that said, I'm not sure I'll ever quit tinkering and changing things around.  I have found that I like thinking of my replica as a work in progress.  Normally I like to get things done the way I like and move on.  With this car, I find that I'm very comfortable thinking about what's yet to come.

When is a custom car ever really finished?   I remember your journey mostly with the cooling but then you found that foreign body in the line which must have been a real moment. 

Ed ... a hard a fast rule..ummm... that pretty much describes turbo life  

I believe that ANY gear-head seeing Jim K's car for the first time would inevitably say "Whatever it cost to get that bad-a$$ coupe looking & sounding like THAT...is worth every penny". 

@MusbJim@Jim Kelly very cool pictures. Guys that enjoy their rides

I agree with all you guys. Man can we drift of topic or what?
One thing that I try to keep in mind in the garage is "hull speed". That is a boat term which means every boat has it's max hp for the hull shape length etc. More hp and it simply will not go faster. 
Kind of the same thing with cars, more hp and you loose control. With my humble skill level, I learned early on , at the track , that suspension, balance, etc was more important to me. Finding the right hp for my particular car and ability to have fun - not scare the sht out of myself and be a danger to others, was / is the goal. 
There is a fine line there - keeping out of the marbles and the weeds. (marbles are the little bits of rubber gathered on the edge of the track that will throw you in the weeds)
European racers proved the hp concept in the 1960s with their lower hp cars smoking the big US cars on the track. Everyone had to rethink the whole hp thing.

But Ed said it nicely, " if puts a smile on his (your) face..."

Have you noticed that Jim has quite the hibachi grill on the back... I can just see the flaming charcoals through that thing... just kidding  

Here are a few more photos from Carlisle last year.

Nice shots. 

It was a great four day weekend last year!