I've got an IM with 914 torsion bars up front with 4 lug wheels. I don't know for sure but I'm assuming this is strictly a 914 setup??????? Anyone familiar with this setup know if there is anyway to upgrade these brakes. Also. Can my car be converted to Porsche narrow 5 lug wheels so I can place 911 brakes and wheels or does that require 911 suspension? I've got VW IRS in the back. I do have an email in to Henry.
Thanks
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Phil: Just have Henry build you a 911 based outlaw, and be done with it 
You wouldn't believe how nicely these 911 based cars drive, stop, handle, etc.
It's really a Porsche 911 with a fibreglass body...believe me, it's the best setup you can get, with IM craftsmanship throughout.
Let your kids put themselves through university...
Kevin of Coolrydes Customs can.
I just bought new rotors with the 5x 130 bolt pattern.
914-6's (with I believe the same front suspension) came with Fuchs (and the 5x130mm bolt pattern) so there is stuff available, oem and I'm sure there's a ton of aftermarket. It's just a matter of tracking it down. Al
I used to have a '72 Porsche 914 - two popular upgrades are a larger 19 mm master cylinder and BMW calipers (stainless steel covered brake lines and vented/drilled rotors complete the upgrade). Assuming you have the OEM 914 mounted calipers -
From Pelican - Front brake calipers from a BMW 320i can replace the 914-4's stock front calipers, resulting in greatly improved braking performance.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/te...914_BMW_calipers.htm
Bill,
Does that set up in the picture have an e-brake?
Thanks,
Pete
I know Bob. That's really what I want. I paid for 8 years of education each for my 2 boys. My daughter is 5 years in with 3 to go and believe me, she is much more expensive than the boys. I have a beautiful car. I'm just trying to get the performance close to what I want. My new cam gave me about 145 hp. I'd just like to have some brakes with a bit more bite with a little less effort.
Henry is in the process of trying to modify the 911 front suspension to work with wide 5s. Now that would make for a nice outlaw.
"Henry is in the process of trying to modify the 911 front suspension to work with wide 5s. Now that would make for a nice outlaw."
Great! I'll have to get in touch with him - I would love wide fives on my car
I've read about that upgrade before, Greg. I've always thought that Ghia discs could use a better/bigger caliper. With a little welding/machining; hmmmm...
Phil, I take it your IM also has rear disc brakes?
If it does switching from 4 bolt to 5 bolt (Porsche) is as simple as purchasing new rotors with the Porsche bolt pattern. Of course, you'll also need new wheels.
Your best bet is to email Henry and ask him what rotors he uses.
It will be more complicated (and costly) if you want to also upgrade your braking system with Porsche or Wilwood parts.
Wolfgang. I have seen the post on switching out 914 front brakes for BMW 320 front brakes. I think it is pretty intriguing and maybe something I can do myself. And a lot cheaper than switching out to 911 brakes and wheels.
Especially when you just got new 4 bolt rims custom powder coated the way you wanted them! There has to be a medical patch to slow the MADNESS down a bit. On the 914 Forum they mention Nitrogen cooled (for temper?) cross drilled or slotted rotors (StopTech) too - but that's more for racing and heat dissipation than decreasing stopping distance. $60 each is probably less than OEM rotors (late model have the wheel centering hub - early did not).
Randy (Beck) has built MANY 911 powered/suspension 914 track cars. I know from our conversations that they just change the whole front strut/spindle/brakes to 911 and it is a straight forward bolt on. IF the IM is a "bolt on" 914 set-up I would imagine the same could be done.
Many of the later model Porsche rear rotors are the same spline as VW and you can buy the adapter parts to run the Porsche Brembo calipers back there too. VDubEngineering makes kits for this. I've done both 944T and 964 conversions to my Spyders and Speedsters in the past.
Thanks Carey. I'm beginning to think if I just go to 911 brakes up front and throw on some 911 fuchs I'd be happy with my IM for a long time. Then Lane could have my wheels for his new car. Then maybe a spyder in a few years. Hmmmm.
I think we'll be 5x130 on Lane's new build, but I'm not 100% sure yet.
If you can get enough rubber under the IM, then the brakes make sense. The cars we did Brembo's on that had standard tires, just locked up quicker/easier. However, the flared car we did with 10s and 11s would put you through the windshield!!
Correct ...Marty changed from 914 to 911 struts vented brakes etc sways also
all bolt on
I have this set up without power assist and it does work well
Ray
944 rear stuff is not easily found these days imho
Phil I run 195/55-16 front 205/55-16 rear on original Fuchs 16x6 front & 16x7 rear.
I'm with Ray - go with the 205's on the rear.
What Gordon said; if you can get them under the fenders, run the 205's! The wider tire you can get in the back the more predictable handling will be. Ever notice the rear rubber sizes Porsche is putting on the back of it's cars these days?
Phil, is your goal to run Porsche bolt patterned wheels or upgrade to different brakes and Porsche bolt pattern wheels?
If you're looking for more stopping power I'd recommend upgrading your brake pads first and going with a stickier tire.
On my track Miata I kept the stock rotors, upgraded to a street/track brake pad, and used high boiling temperature brake fluid. With this combo my brakes were awesome on the street and never let me down on the track (okay, I did lose my brakes once at the end of a long straight-a-way and had to use the run-off road )
I can see upgrading your brakes (new calipers, etc) if you plan on tracking your IM, but if the car won't ever see the track I can't see the point, unless it's for bragging rights.
Well my original IM disks were good, but realistically the 911 vented are way better. I feel more surefooted...
They are a nicer pair of shoes for sure ...does that constitute bragging.? guilty then.. But the suspension is awesome day night difference.
I can see Phil wanting to upgrade (ah, the Madness) - he now has 145 hp (2x what a 914 1.8L had) from a heavier (than AC VW) engine mounted rather high in rear - plus more weight for water cooling system in a rather heavy IM cabriolet. Since his new wheels/tires are only about a year old, I assumed he wanted to stick with 4 bolt. Brake pads are a good addition -hard to select decent pads though. Racing one often need to be warmed up to work well - soft ones make a dist mess on wheels. Guess all you can do is research (on 914World) the major pad companies for best stopping street pads.
Ron O posted:I can see upgrading your brakes (new calipers, etc) if you plan on tracking your IM, but if the car won't ever see the track I can't see the point, unless it's for bragging rights.
I guess that depends on how hard you drive on the street. I've experienced brake fade on the street from CSP solid disc front/VW drum rear. Fresh fluid, good hoses and properly bled.
New 4 wheel Airkewld 4 pot fronts and single piston rear, braided lines, same car, no other changes, no fade after two hours of abuse on the street. Solid stops every time!
Ron O's brake setup sounds like what Carey's putting on my coupe.
Lane Anderson posted:Ron O's brake setup sounds like what Carey's putting on my coupe.
I'm planning on these myself this winter.
Lane: It's those small choices that makes the build so exciting, and then makes the car that much more fun to drive.
Yes, brakes are crucial, so get the best set up you can get.
All Lane's going to have left to do is hang fuzzy dice from mirror and mud flaps.
WOLFGANG posted:Racing one often need to be warmed up to work well - soft ones make a dist mess on wheels.
I had semi track pads on my Miata and they did need to be warmed up a bit to make them work properly.
I shied away from full track pads because they're even harder to warm up and they're prone to squealing.
My semi track pads did squeal a bit when cold.
Here's a site that offers a number of good high performance pad options for a 914 brake setup:
Lane Anderson posted:Ron O's brake setup sounds like what Carey's putting on my coupe.
My front brakes are two pot Wilwoods from Airkewld, and my rear discs are from CB.
The car stops really well, but I have to admit that I've never 'pushed' this car while driving on the road.
I've mentioned it in a previous post and I'll mention it again.....pads and tires have the biggest impact on brake improvement.
OK. I'm so bored at work and I've decided to post my finding on Porsche 914-4 front brake upgrades. This is assuming that the entire front running gear is NOT swapped out for 911 stuff. This is assuming that we will be keeping the stock solid rotors and 4 x 130 wheels that came on the car. I know hardly anyone but me has 914-4 stuff up front but hey, I'm bored.
1. By far the cheapest. Swap out for BMW 320i rotors and pads. Pistons are larger and pads are larger. Complete bolt on for early 914-4 70-72 cars. Henry uses running gear from the 914-4 72-76 cars so the flanges have to be machined to fit.
2. Use the 911 calipers for non-vented rotors. These are the 65-69 "M" style calipers. These calipers are stiffer than the 914-4 calipers and have bigger pistons. Pad size however is the same. These are completely bolt on for 70-72 914-4 cars but again the flanges will require machining to fit the 914-4 72-76 cars like the IM.
3. Use the 911 "M" style calipers for vented discs. These were stock on the 914-6. These are identical to the 911 "M" style calipers for non-vented rotors except that they have a spacer in the middle. Just remove the spacer. They will work.
4. The holy grail. Brembo made aluminum 911 "M" style calipers for a few years. They have the same piston size and pad size as the standard 911 "M" style caliper but are much lighter.
So those are the options short of going all 911 up front.
# 1 will cost you about $200.
# 2 & # 3 will cost about $1000.
Who knows about the cost of # 4 if you can find them.
So the advantage of #1 over #2 and #3 is price and the fact the BMW pads are bigger. Pistons are the same size. Advantage of #2 and #3 for the purists is its still Porsche equipment. Keep in mind that the Porsche and BMW calipers are both made by ATE. Advantage of #4 is less unsprung weight.
Really leaning toward # 1. Just got to find the time.
Winter. Winter is the time for stuff like this, Phil.
If you are ok with 4 bolt pattern - you can add frozen/vented/cross drilled/slotted rotors and still use the BMW calipers. Adds less fade due to heat and less rotor warping - so you can hit Skyline Drive with vigor.
Option #5 Coolrydes Custom "Stop Tech Brakes".
Vented rotors are where it's at. I wish I had them (and some AL calipers as well)
I mean "CoolStop"
Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:Vented rotors are where it's at. I wish I had them (and some AL calipers as well)
I whole heartedly agree with you, Stan; if you have enough rubber on the ground (and enough brakes in the back) to make use of them, they're certainly the way to go. And if the calipers are aluminum, well that's just another bonus.
Phil, I'm not sure if I asked you this before, but what is your goal here? Do you want a huge increase in braking power because you plan on tracking your car, or do you want a noticeable increase in braking ability for the street?
I ask because I think you would have a noticeable increase in braking ability if you switched to a more 'high performance' pad. I tracked my Miata, with stock calipers and rotors and only changed to a higher boiling brake fluid and street/track pads.
The difference in braking was VERY noticeable. My brakes only faded away once, and that was while I was driving at 10/10 trying to stay in front of another car.
Maybe it's more 'I want' than 'I need'.
Here's a link to some Hawk performance pads that will fit your car:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/parts-search
Phil great research i wonder if you can post the list of suppliers you found?
Also What were you thinking for rear brakes? Parking brake set up, hopefully no change in master cylinder or proportioning valve will be needed.
Don't know how many here have actually owned a 914-4 and have actually experience just how dreadful these brakes are. No feel, very high effort and very poor performance. I'm not looking for high performance braking. I'm not going to track the car. I just want something that is reasonable. That's why I'm not making any drastic changes. I'm not spending the money for the 911 set up and I'm not changing to vented rotors. I don't have a race car and I'm not going to pretend that I do. I have a gentleman's speedster. I just want the damn thing to stop. I have VW IRS in the back with VW discs. I think that's fine. I bought some rebuilt BMW 320i calipers on Thurs and had then machined on Friday. I ordered some nice Porterfield pads which I'm waiting on. Hopefully I can find some time next weekend to install. I will give a full report with pics. If I ever build another IM it will have the 911 suspension and brake package. No matter how much I want, this car will never be that car.
Stan. Here in coastal VA I place the hard top and drive all winter. Think I can install the calipers, pads, SS brake lines, change the brake fluids in a morning. Just have to bribe my daughter to sit there and pump on the brake pedal.
I am very optimistic these BMW brakes will make a big difference.
