IM water cooled VW/Audi?

Besides the Audi/VW water-cooled in-line 4’s, IM also offers water-cooled models based on Subaru flat-4 power. If I were to build a water-cooled IM, I’d go for Subaru power. IMO, the virtues of a WC Suby vs a typical air-cooled Type 1 motor: Modern fuel injection (no carbs to fiddle with), 100,000 mile reliability, widespread parts availability, availability of mechanics who know how to work on it, lots more power and torque for similar money, availability of modern, factory-integrated heat and air conditioning systems, more effective engine cooling in hot climates without having to obsess over fan speeds and having to run the engine in a given RPM range. And you get all of this in a package that retains the low center-of-gravity, short rear overhang, relatively light weight and classic boxer exhaust note of an air-cooled 4.

A WC Audi/VW in-line 4 would give you some of the attributes of a Subaru motor, but it’s a long engine that hangs much farther aft in the tail end of the car, has a higher center-of-gravity than a flat 4, and doesn’t have the classic Boxer exhaust note, which is a big part of the experience IMO.

Between an air-cooled Type 1, a water-cooled Audi in-line 4, and a WC Suby flat-4, I’d take the Suby hands down. IM also offers an air-cooled flat 6 based on 911 power. If you can swing an AC IM-6, it’s a much tougher choice!

When I had my IM restored in 2010 Henry let me take out a new VW water cooled IM.

When I got back I asked Henry why he didn't install Subaru engines in his IMs.  He replied,"Because no one has asked me."

Since then he's been asked and has installed a number of Subaru engines in his cars.

Going with a Subaru engine is a wise choice, and it's only a matter of time until Henry starts to offer a modified Subaru 5 speed transmission.  The transmissions are available, but still pretty pricey.

It's a shame to connect a modern engine to a antiquated VW 4 speed transmission. 

Ron

I agree with most areas covered above. However, the Soob does allow an attractive,

low cost alternative to replace your aircooled engine if it expires. If you can pull an engine and get it back in and running, then I'd say you're qualified to do the conversion yourself. Electronic ignition, a single carb that does not require fiddleing and plenty of heat and many attributes noted above and all up and running for about $2,000. Add about $2,000 more if you want to use a completely rebuilt engine. It seems to work fine with a stock VW tranny considering the cost involved, not ideal, but fine.

For the most part I agree with the above, but there is one advantage to the VW/Audi setup.  Henry can get new crate motors from VW/Audi, but all Subaru engines are used, removed from wrecked cars.  In general that is not a problem as he only uses low-mileage motors, but there is no guarantee of how well the engine was maintained.

Not quite true, Grasshopper.

There are several places selling everything from new long block Subies all the way up to brand-new engines of all levels - from Subaru, but why bother?  Perfectly fine used engines are out there for a fraction of the "new" price.  For example, a friend recently bought a new WRX top end engine direct from Subaru for a shade over $12,000 (no warranty as it's going racing), but that same engine from a salvage yard (and warranted for a year) is under $4K.  Plus, there are several shops (mostly in California, but more popping up all over the 'states) who will build you a new Subie to any power level you want for well under $12K and VERY competitive to the aircooled guys.

Crate engines are available from Subaru, but it's back to the same problem as getting a new aircooled job:  BIG BUCKS!

Exactly the I for was looking looking for? Thanks. Since I will be shelling out a fair amount of coin for my build the thought of a used engine makes me a bit queasy. I'm going to learn more about the Subaru motor. Since I was intially headed down the air cooled route I visited Kevin in Bremen last week. Really impressed with their overall operation and the cars they produce. I know they can produce a water cooled car. Anyone have experience with a water Beck?

I know they've built them with VW/Audi engines, but I'm not sure about a Suby.

I believe Henry installed, in at least one new water cooled IM, a rebuilt 2.2 Subaru engine.  Not quite as good as a new one, but close, and I would guess considerably cheaper.

Ron

I believe that at least one Suby-powered Speedster has left the Indiana facility.  The customer was Dr. Peter Choy who lives in Florida.  I haven't heard anything about his car in quite a while. 

If you go to IM’s new website, Subaru is officially listed as one of the two water-cooled engine options:

http://intermeccanica.com/athi...uid-cooled-speedster

The main IM site had been down. I see the use both motors but very few details are given. I have made direct inquiries to IM. The IM US site dated before 2012 states that the Audi is the  standard power plant.

I scoured the site looking for Beck H20 posts and found enough background to go from here. I think I'll go directly to the source for more details. Thanks Again. Happy to hear from anyone who has direct experience.