Impact of AC on Engine Temps, and Ballerina Car Wash

I have been Dreaming of 85 degree weather! It was snowing here today.

@Former Member posted:

I have been Dreaming of 85 degree weather! It was snowing here today.

Spring is coming (back)!

Mike, can I teleport you over here for logging and tuning?

Looking good!

When I ran my 5K in the Bahamas, it was just kissing 78F at about 9:30am.

It    was   Glorious!

We had 39 here in Chucktown this morning (cold front came through), but it's supposed to be around 80 starting tomorrow and for several days.  A regular rollercoaster.  Speaking of which, who remembers this?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjZbPA1cMIU

Oh, and if Danny teleports over there I will need to as well - so I can hand him tools and whatnot, you understand.

You guys can just watch "American Idol" this week - The show is set at Disney's Aulani Resort on Oahu (went there in 2020 - It's wicked nice).

Just turn up the heat in your living room to 83F and mix up some Hawaiian tropical drinks:

https://disneyaddicts.com/try-...ails-at-home-280010/

After two or three (or four) of those you won't care where you are!

I had the add-on dealer installed DPD AC in my 1972 Porsche 914 back in the day (was in humid Washington DC and had to wear a coat and tie to work).  It had the huge reciprocating York compressor that sucked about 15 hp when on.  Didn't even have a vacuum shut off.  New AC units use a smaller more efficient rotary (Sanden) compressor. Is your compressor the new rotary version? 

@Former Member posted:

It was snowing here today.

@Michael Pickett posted:

Spring is coming (back)!

This is Spring in the Midwest, Michael. It snows in April.

Every.

Single.

Year.

It'll also be 85* on that one day you'll file away as a frame of reference for every future April ("hey, it CAN be nice in April - there was that one day when it was 85...").

It'll rain every other day - except for the day when it's predicted with an 85% chance (which always seems oddly specific and scientific-sounding - sorta' like the CDC guidelines), then it'll be 75 and sunny with wind blowing out of the south at about 25 mph. The grass will be (is) turning green, but it'll seem odd to mow it in your winter coat, even though that's how it is every April. No leaves on deciduous trees will appear until May. There will be tornado warnings, and tulips pushing up, and daffodils.

And mud. Lots and lots of mud. Every jobsite, gravel road, or field will be a sea of mud. It doesn't seem safe to put sta-bil in the snowblower, but the blade on the mower better be sharp, and the tiller will need to be ready to go.

Just like every year.

I feel your pain, Stan.   Much the same here.  April is a month of subdued frustration, and longing optimism.

@Stan Galat Thats the Absolute Truth. It was snowing yesterday and I’m in my garage debating if I should put the roller on my mower and roll and cut my grass today.

@Michael Pickett posted:

the air temperature in the engine compartment (MAT) usually settles around 145F when totally warmed up.

First of all, thanks for all of the data - you're a treasure on this site, Mike. Secondly, I agree with Danny - I'd love to have you come and tune my car when I get the EFI set up. The tuning is by far the thing that freaks me out the most.

But lastly - the section I've quoted above just gave me pause. On an 85 deg day, the engine compartment was 145 deg (!). That means that the air the engine is using for combustion, as well as the air it uses for cooling is hotter than the hot water in your house. That's terrible.

In addition, we know that there's not enough air getting into the engine compartment. But knowing that what IS getting in is stupidly hot means that (to my pea-brained way of thinking) I need to focus more attention toward getting more air into the back of the car.

A LOT more air.

All of the sudden, Arden's "racer" air-access looks a lot more interesting. At a minimum, I'm going to cut away a lot of my rain-tray. This explains why popping the deck-lid on any speedster lowers the oil-temperatures pretty drastically (probably at least as much as the installation of a remote oil cooler).

Good stuff, friend.

@Gordon Nichols posted:

You guys can just watch "American Idol" this week

Ummmm. No thanks. We don't watch Unreality TV.

@WOLFGANG posted:

I had the add-on dealer installed DPD AC in my 1972 Porsche 914 back in the day (was in humid Washington DC and had to wear a coat and tie to work).  It had the huge reciprocating York compressor that sucked about 15 hp when on.  Didn't even have a vacuum shut off.  New AC units use a smaller more efficient rotary (Sanden) compressor. Is your compressor the new rotary version?

Dude, that was 50, yes 50 years ago. NOBODY uses York compressors for anything but metal salvage and boat anchors today. NOBODY! Isn't York a city in PA?

Stan and Mike: 145 degrees is probably OK for a 1776cc, but maybe not for a mega-Stan motor. I'll have to log my IAT as well this spring.

I've always been a fan of Henry's hole behind the license plate method. It makes sense.

@WOLFGANG, yep Sanden SD7H15HD rotary compressor. The last York I had came on my '82 911. It was soon replaced with a Sanden.

@DannyP and @Stan Galat, I'd love to help out on your setups anyway I can. I'm very interested in how you guys are approaching it. Just let me know if you want to set up a call or zoom meeting.

I suspect the air temps I'm measuring are pretty accurate since they go up with AC on a lot more than the head temps. I've got spare sensor wiring in the engine compartment to learn more... someday.

Still, it's hotter than I like. But, I haven't put the surrounding tin (stainless actually) and rubber back on in a couple of years, so that might be a good first test.

It has a cutout rain tray, the Reisner inspired license plate cutout, Carrera lid louvers and rubber standoffs on the lid. It should be getting plenty of fresh air.

I've been too busy picking the little umbrellas out of my drinks to do any serious science on this question. The ballerina car wash trip was just low hanging fruit since the top and windows were on.

More science later, maybe.

P.S. @Stan Galat, we retired here from Rhode Island. I get you, man, spring hasn't really sprung in the north. Those warm days are just a tease and a chance to push the car out of the garage and let it look around a bit.

It's getting pretty nice in NY. I think it's nicer than Illinois, compared to what Stan experiences.

We're at the it's-cold-it's-warm-then-sometimes-it-rains part of spring. But hey, no snow like Pieter down in the North Carolina mountains the other day!

I am so very sorry for your inconvenience I know it is a true burden that you have to bare. I live in Paradise as well, but slightly different. We are expecting a foot of snow Monday night. I have resisted taking my Speedster out of storage for a change and likewise my sailboat although in the Lake over the winter with a bubblier to prevent ice she is still winterized.

Pulled the trigger an mowed the yard!

Nice!

Wow, that is some yard (and mower, I suspect).

@Michael Pickett posted:

Wow, that is some yard (and mower, I suspect).

You can't get widely spaced lines like that without a big deck on a ZTR mower.

60" or 72", @Former Member?

72” Cub Cadet @Stan Galat

@Former Member posted:

Pulled the trigger an mowed the yard!

What’s grass?  And to add….what’s rain?

Take a moment in sympathy for our northern friends during the cruelest month:

@Michael Pickett wrote- "Long story short, with the AC off, the air temperature in the engine compartment (MAT) usually settles around 145F when totally warmed up. With the AC on, the air temp settles at 169F.

The head temp (CLT) usually hangs around 226F without AC and rises to 230F with the AC on."

Can you hold your hand on the engine sheet metal for more than a quick touch when the engine compartment is at those temps?  Do you know what happens to those temps when after driving you stop, open the engine lid and then continue driving with the lid open 2 or 3 "?

My son, of the Five Cent Racing Watercooled Division, has one of those fancy-schmancy ZTR lawn mowers and I've watched him zipping around his back yard seemingly at 30mph, grass flying off into the wind, roller on the rear making his yard look like Fenway Park (He's very proud of it).  

It's awesome.  But it has hand controls that are a bit too sensitive for me.  It's like you could steer it by breathing hard on the levers.  

"Puff!" and it turns left.  

"Puff, Puff!" and it turns right.  

While he is purely natural driving it, the thing has always scared me.  I always think it's gonna take off with me driving like this:

@Gordon Nichols, it's the laughing of the folks taking the video that makes it even better. Good link!

@ALB, I haven't tried either touching the tin or propping the lid. Next time I get a chance, I'll do it.

@Gordon Nichols yeah I know what you mean but you get use to it. I switched to this model 3yrs ago before I had both my hand’s operated on they kept going numb this helped a lot. I like the steering wheel option a lot better easier to make straight lines and have a cold one in hand.

I had a Cub Cadet Tractor at our first house and it had a 58" (?) tri-blade deck on it. We also had about 3 acres of lawn in what was once an apple orchard dating from the American Revolution.  Mowing the entire lawn took a shade over four hours in the seat, so I broke the yard up into four quarters and would do one a night after work.  Still, it got to me after a while, along with the 300+ feet of downhill driveway, so since that house we've always had short, flat driveways. This place has a bit less than 5,000 sq. of lawn that is really easy to take care of - except for the lumpiness every spring.

I have a 150 X 250 lawn area with dozens of trees to move around and I'm virtually the only guy in my neighborhood that doesn't use a lawn service. Takes me 45 minutes to an hour and I actually see it as my private relaxation time because no one can talk to me

I have a 42" John Deere zero-turn mower.  It takes me two hours to mow.  I go over it twice in different directions.  I listen to an audiobook while I mow.

When I was a kid we had a riding mower and my younger brother and I cut 4 acres.  It seems like it took about a week and then it was time to start over.  One day my brother drove it into the lake.

@Michael Pickett- I forgot to ask, Mike- where is the head temp sensor located?

@ALB posted:

@Michael Pickett- I forgot to ask, Mike- where is the head temp sensor located?

Al, it's a VW Temp Sensor 2 attached to the driver side front exhaust stud.

Is that on your lawn mower?    🤪

@Gordon Nichols posted:

Is that on your lawn mower?    🤪

You here all week? LOL!

Gordon, I routinely drive my Cub Cadet 50" zero-turn with one hand, I've got the levers pretty close together. It requires a light touch, it comes to you after you use one for a bit. Not unlike flying anything RC, a light touch is a requirement unless you like an empty wallet.

At the country place, I mowed a couple acres with a 52" Toro ZTR. I had the entire thing set up that there was no push-mower trimming, only the ZTR and a string-trimmer.

You're right, Gordon - the controls are super-touchy until you get used to it. After about an hour of jerking around, you start to get pretty smooth. By the second time out, you're flying.

Michael, we've always caught the grass - always. Two acres of clippings in June is a lot of grass. Bagging on a ZTR is why I had the small-deck Toro (anything bigger and I'd have needed a vacuum trailer). If you catch the grass, you might not need to go over it twice, but maybe you want to.

But we're townies now, with 3 postage-stamp yards that add up to not a lot of wholesale grass cutting, but a freaky amount of trim. It takes me as long to string trim and edge as it does to mow, and that's about 1-1/2 hrs each.

I could mow the country place in an hour and trim it in 15 minutes. Jeanie wanted to move so there'd be less to take care of.

I agree Stan, and I've got the flower beds and such setup that no trimming is needed most of the time. We only use the wacker a few times a year so no biggie.

I take care of my Mom's place and mine, they are 1/3 acre each, so two postage stamps. It used to take me almost two hours with a single blade 28-30 inch cut ride-on.

Now, I do both lawns in a 20 minutes with sharp mulch blades. Barely enough time for a beer to get warm. I do have a tow-behind vacuum shredder that is SWEET but use that for fall leaf duty. Then we use it to mulch the gardens, then turn it in later with the tiller.

My Dad thought I was crazy for buying that machine, but you can't get more time in this life. When I was working, 2 hours plus a week for lawn maintenance was 2 hours too much, especially as a single dad.

Stan, I want the clippings to go back into the grass to nourish it.  One reason I go over it twice is to chop them up more. It also gives me more time to listen to my book.

I go over it the first time with the blade higher and then lower the blade and go over it again in a different direction.  I use Gator blades which supposedly chop finer.

In paradise, mowing is a year-round sport. We bought our house nearly 10 years ago admiring the landscaping the previous owners had installed in the relatively small yard. I liked that the grass was Seashore Paspalum, basically a golf course grass that tolerates salt water.

Six months later, we were wondering how in the heck to keep everything cut back and trimmed. It NEVER stops growing. Plus, half of the beautiful, fragrant, flowering plants that abound here have arm shredding thorns for some God awful reason.

By a year in, our collection of lawn equipment had grown and was starting to match up with the challenge that faced us EVERY week of the year. I bought a used commercial Tru-Cut reel mower and hardly ever scalped the grass. We had pole saws and clippers to rein in the aggressive palm trees that were bent on attacking the roof; machetes for particularly sneaky bougainvillea, palm and other innocent looking terrorists scattered around our yard; an assortment of hand held electric clippers and electric pole trimmers to curb the climbing ivy and normal bushes and shrubs going about their normal business; we had found a routine to keep the house and sheds from disappearing into our little jungle.

And it only took a few hours of weekly attention to maintain the uneasy truce we'd brokered. We give you water and fertilizer, and you stay where you belong. Life continued.

Nine years later, with responsibilities for taking care of grandkids growing and with six months of playing neurologist prescription roulette trying to get an essential tremor under control, I put up a white flag. We found a nice lady who was starting up a lawn care business with her brother and said "It's all yours."

My eye twitch went away. I no longer mumbled "the horror, the horror" while walking around the house. The pressure of holding up my end of the neighborly house value stick was relieved and I had time to learn more bad jokes to tell the 5 year old. Ahhhh.

So, I think I've graduated from a lifetime of lawn care responsibilities. I can't say that I miss it that much. But hey, Maui problems...

Everybody's got a different take on lawncare, Michael - but my wife is firmly in control of what we do. I do what I can to help, which mostly involves staying out of the way. I grew up the son of a man who had no time for nonsense like a nice-looking yard, and plants and their nuances escape me completely.

I'm fine if I'm told what to do, but I can't look at a plant and determine that it's under stress until the leaves are falling off. Some people rescue dogs, my wife recuses houseplants other people have nearly killed.

Our first home was a split-foyer tract home from the early '70s, and was the typical blue-collar place - bad grass, lava rock with a sticks and leaves in roughly equal parts with the rocks, overgrown shrubs, a few juniper trees which threw needles continuously (there's a great story involving the removal of those trees, but that's for another day), and a three silver maples that had never been trimmed. Jeanie started working on it almost as soon as we moved in, and bagged the grass as soon as she found out we could get an attachment for the Lawn Boy. When we moved out 17 years later, the lawn looked like a golf course and the flowers were legendary.

The theory behind bagging the clippings (I think) is that if there is a weed, you aren't beating the seeds off of it and pushing it back into the root of the grass, you're sucking it up. We also never need to dethatch (I can't recall ever doing it). We use a lot of the clippings as mulch for the vegetable garden, and have always used it in the flowerbeds until we had a pillbug infestation as a result. Getting rid of the excess is a logistical problem in this primarily white-collar town. I guess the town fathers (who seem stuck in a 1978 Groundhog Day) assume the lawn-service guys (doesn't everybody have them?) will just haul them back to Mexico, or wherever they go at night. They're really weird about trailers in this town as well, but I digress (again).

As for nourishment, we're definitely not on the organic plan. We start with crabgrass inhibitor in the early spring (like, now), weed-n-feed in the late spring, we water all summer, and put winterizer down in the fall. Throughout the summer, I keep the fence-rows clear with glysophate, and nip any broadleaf infestation with 2-4D before it really takes hold. There are no dandelions - none - just a monoculture of grass that is never found in nature. It's beautiful.

Jeanie also always has multiple flower gardens, plantings around the houses (both ours and mom's next door), and the best tomatoes I've ever eaten. I till the garden, keep the machines running, whip and edge (and I've got a LOT of sidewalk/driveway/patio to edge), set up and man the sprinkler array (I can't believe how much all the various hose menders, tees, manifolds, etc. cost - to say nothing of the water). A more reasonable man would just put a sprinkler system in, but I can't make myself tear up the grass to do it.

There's enough chemical and water going on the lawns that it would need it's own line-item in the budget, assuming we did such a thing. Philistine that I am, I've pitched mulching a couple of times. The groundskeeper will not abide such nonsense.

She's the boss of the landscape, and the yards and gardens look ridiculously nice.

It's one of the many, many ways she civilizes me.