Inches to the oil sump.

0.25" and yes. 

(sorry - couldn't help myself)

If you ever plan on installing a deep sump I wouldn't lower the car.

Yeah, talk to Ricardo Baerga (Impala, on here) about how much fun it is to bottom out your deep sump'd and lowered car on a rock at 20mph.

I've got the shallow additional sump and have just under 7" to the ground from the finned aluminum.  

I've bottomed my sump plate twice. 

I won't install one because of that . I use a 1 gallon oil canister behind the tail light what has a braided return line to the alt stand and a pick up braided line  coming off the case close to the cam gears  to push the oil. Its a automatic low pressure flow reserve with filter.

Haven't bottomed mine yet (knock wood).  The exhaust system hangs low enough to protect it. 

Oldyeler, your setup looks interesting.

I'm know this has been covered before, but what are the reasons for adding a deep sump?

I've read on the SAMBA forum that it doesn't not aid in oil cooling. I thought it would, but the really knowledgeable posters think it won't.

Is it for cornering, so the oil pickup tube doesn't start sucking up air when the oil sloshes to one side because of the cornering G-force?

Yup,I hear you only really need one for hard cornering.  

When I had my 1915 Type I, I added a deep sump for cooling.  Mant folks said that more oil won't cool the engine--that it just takes longer for the oil to heat up to where it would be with a regular sized sump.  My experience was that the extra oil did indeed cool the oil and I was pretty thorough with a thermometer dipstick made by Manly.  The deep sump I had used coolong fins and a desifgn that made air flow over and accross the fine for cooling.  Seems like I saw about 10 degrees cooler on a hot summer day.  Now I have a larger sump in stock configuration than I did before with the deep sump.   But for me, the deep sump did provide some cooling.

Forgive me for entering into this discussion on the deep sump but there has to be something to more oil from an engineering point of view. I have three Mercedes and they all use 8 qts of 0-40 oil verus the standard 5 quarts for other cars. As long as I can remember, Mercedes has always had large sumps for their oil. Not sure if it is cooling or lubrication or both.

It does help with cooling minimally (any time you add more surface area there's better heat transfer), but Ron, you're right; that's not their main function. Any motor (even a completely stock 1200) can be driven hard enough to momentarily uncover the oil pump pickup occasionally, and this is a deep sump's function; to give a few more seconds of protection. Gene Berg claimed that the 1 1/2 quart sump was adequate in motors up to 6000rpm, and street motors that revved higher needed the 3 1/2quart model. The 4 quart unit is for drag racers.

Of course a car always driven like the factory engineers intended don't need the extra oil capacity.

More oil in the engine is a big plus to help it last  . A remote oil cooler . or in my case the the doghouse on the shroud got a t-4 oil cooler upgrade   it looks so factory No one has even caught the alterations..  It's both. But where i live lumber riggs  with debree in the road can be a pain   No stumps for me please

 I do not think a deep sump is a good idea with how low these ride. I have a remote filter & oil cooler,the plumbing/filter/cooler add about 1-1.5 qts. more capacity which is enough to keep my 2110 running cool. 

James- The extra capacity in the cooler and filter does no good when driving the car hard and uncovering the pickup. You're still momentarily running the bearings (and everything else) dry. This is what a deeper sump does- keeps all the moving parts supplied with oil.

I had a small deep sump. I damaged 2 sump plates, leaks and had enough of it. I took it off and haven't noticed any difference with the way I drive. And my car isn't particularly low.

Dry sump. Just sayin'.

Stan's right; the best solution for a higher revving motor and spirited driver (especially if the car is lowered somewhat) is a dry sump. It is somewhat more involved and costs several times more (5? 8? 10?) than simply bolting on an extra sump and adding a couple more quarts of oil, but you never have to worry about the motor running dry. Stan did the ultimate and custom built the oil tank; it mounts in the right rear fenderwell, is contoured to the area it sits against and fills from the engine compartment. If I was to go this way I'd be using his system as a starting blueprint.

Stan- what's the distance from the floor to the engine sump plate on your car? 

PS- For those who haven't read about Stan's journey to the dry sump side (or wish to refresh their memories)- https://www.speedsterowners.com...332#4529049826439332

Accusump will also protect an engine from temporary oil starvation without having the larger sump hanging down where it can get damaged.  An accusump system like that is pretty cheap and easy to plumb.  No selenoid like on the pre-oiler systems although with the pre-oiler systems you get both benefits, pre-oiling on start up and protection.

http://www.accusump.com/accusump_units.html

Yes sir!! As Gord says here I had a really bad experience with that; miles from home too. In the end I ended up with a beautiful Gene Berg sump destroyed (that was painful). Luckily the studs on my block survived so I just eliminated it and put the original sump plate and filter on it. I believe that the stance on these cars have to be just right and that means low in the back like the the originals; otherwise your Speedster ends up looking like a Baja Bug.

That looks like a great idea too! Thanks for sharing.

I had my Gene Berg sump on my old car for a couple of years, and the next owner had it on for another three years; no bottom-outs.   I now have it on my refurbished IM's engine and I've bottom it out twice in a matter of months.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how careful you are-$hit just happens.

yelp a dry stump is a nice set up it always has oil to the bearings unless a line blows.

I'm going to stick with my deep sump and keep my fingers crossed.....

I don't want to go with the complexities of a dry sump, and I don't think an Accusump can take the place of a deep sump.

Al-

Thanks for the kind words, my friend.

I can say this: my sump is no longer the low point of my car's rear end. It's no deeper than the stock (non-extended) case (which I wouldn't consider running). My header collector is lower, so I've actually got a 3/16" AL skid-plate under the sump as the low point of the entire system-- it's peace of mind, as I've got a lot of hoses, and a very expensive header and exhaust I'd like to protect. It doesn't extend any further down than a CB thin-line sump. How far off the ground that is depends on how low I'm running the back end.

Ron: you are 100% correct- an Accusump is no replacement for more oil, but it's really, really nice. I wouldn't consider running without one, even with the dry sump.

Stan do you have any pics?

Look at ALB's post (about 9 or 10 posts up).

there is also the thinline sumps,Im not fond of them, but with some work they would be ok for me(trapdoors to keep the oil where it needs to be)

  Also it's not just cornering, remember the pickup is in the center of the motor so when axcellerating the oil go's to the rear of the case and stacks up back there.with the extra sump it is more confined so it has nowhere to stack up& you have to pump out about 1/2 of it befor your sucking air.you can also add a line from the rear of the case(type 3 dipstick location) to help the satcked up oil into the extra sump via hose.(a check ball can be used or some clever routing of the hose so it dosent push oil from the sump up to the case.)

 the cb thin line sump&some of the empi wideglide sumps have a big drain plate, much biger than the vw sized ones.

    I may take one of my berg sumps with the super thick flange and mill about 1/2 of it away to raise the sump even more.

I just went to CB's site to check out their sumps.  Their 2 quart 'Wide Glide' is 11 x 16 x 1 7/8", while their 'Thin line'  1.5 quart is 11 x 10 x 1  7/8

I'll have to measure my Gene Berg 1.5 quart sump to see how 'thick' it is.

By the way, I like CB's new site.  MUCH improved.

 some times it's hard to find stuff on thier site, I hope this new format does a lot better. I would go with the wide sump that holds more oil(I used it on a 2387 in a 65,912 2 years ago.it tucks up nicely, but I dont like the crapy filter in it&removed it then added a vw screen to the sump plate& extended the pickup tube.the tube with the stinless steel mesh is very short & will suck air easely,(I think it was about 1.3/8" off the bottom of the sump witch should be a lot closer.and the built in bypass is way to tight.I dont think it would ever open just cause the pump to cavitate&kill the motor.)I gess the small sump would be ok too. I have the big 4 qt cb sump & it is only about1/4" deeper than my berg 1.5 sumps. those berg sumps are so thick I dont know if you could hurt one, probably kill the case first.

The last time I bottomed out my deep sump it sheared an 1/8th of an inch off the drain bolt.  The drain plate was a bit scuffed up, but the the sump was unscathed.   You're right-Gene Berg sumps are build to withstand substantial hits.

I think it weighs about 3 times what the 4qt cb sump does.Ive been thinken about drilling & adding some cooling tubes to some of the biger sumps I have so they will cool better and possiably use some of them for a water heater for heating the car in the cooler month we have.

The Berg 3 1/2 quart sump I have is 2 3/4" from flange to flange; and yes, it's heavy. It has post stiffeners inside as well. I also have a (I don't know who made it) 1 1/2 quart unit and the Berg weighs supstantially more.

I measured my old 1.5 quart Berg sump-it's just under 3" thick.  To get a bit more clearance I just ordered a 1.5 Thin line sump from CB.  It's 1  7/8" thick.