Installation of Marchals to the front bumper

Anybody have an opinion on these? Again, I am trying to get a more classic look and frankly, even when I drive my Boxster, with the SUV idiots (cell phone in ear), I drive with my lights on. I thought the Marchals look good on pix I have seen and this seems the cheapest that I have found them. Is there a problem wiring them into the light circuit on a Vintage or is that too much draw.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260257871649&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123


Fred Adler
San Diego

Your adding probably 35x2 watts. I'd add another relay to power the add on lights - kits to add fog lights usually include botjh a fuse and relay with the wiring. IMHO Without it the head light switch won't last long before it gets pitted from the arcing (unless it over heats and melts first).

Here's thread that addressed:

https://www.speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=8955

I buy a lot of these fog lights, and this is WELL below my cost, even in bulk... Just FYI.

dang - i have a set of those and i paid that for *each* one.

the title says "light" and the ad says comes with 2. better double check. That is what NLA charges for *one*.

if it sounds too good to be true...

I chatted with her and she swears it is two of them. Maybe Mexican knockoffs. I found a Speedster maker in the Yukatan while I was looking. He is making ones like that white one with blue stripes on ebay being sold out of Texas. Nice guy. He sent me pictures of his shop. It must be a tradition down there since I also looked at one in El Cahon for $10,000 with all Mexican manufacturing plaques on it. All rusty chrome though. Cheap plating. It had been parked on Coronado Island and the sea air really did a job on it.

OK, I bought them and I will let you know about them. NOW, the next question. They seem to have just a shaft and bolt to hold them to the bumper. Any suggestions on mounting other than drilling the bumper and strengthening with stainless washers? I see some have them on an auxilliary bar above the bumper. Is that a VS part?

Ideas?

i drilled the bumper and it fits perfect

It looks like Beck just drills the bumper ("X inches apart") and mounts the Marchals.

Looks good Paul. No problem with the bumper cracking around the hole? I just wondered. I am guessing the bumper is aluminum under fiberglass but I could be wrong.

Fred
San Diego

My Beck has Marchals, and Fred is right, they're just mounted through the fiberglass. I've seen no problems in 2 years and ~10,000 miles.

These were old Harley lights, but I drilled the bumpers and added a thinnish piece of neoprene from an old wetsuit and a washer on either side of the fiberglass to dampen vibrations. They were pretty heavy lights, though.
When the bumpers came off the car, there was no noticeable damage except for the holes themselves.

"I am guessing the bumper is aluminum under fiberglass but I could be wrong".

The bumpers are 100% fiberglass with no core materials (other than fiberglass mat). Bumper is a real mis-nomeaner - like roll bar! I'd mount them real close to the metal brackets so they don't vibrate as you go down the road.

i did the same as cory (except with a real rubber gasket - LOL)

it looks very correct, won't scratch the paint and i seriously doubt that they will cause any cracking. the bumpers are quite thick fiberglass.

Thank you gentlemen. Perfect. I know what to do now based on your experiences. I like the idea of a rubber gasket since my experience with the gelcoat (fiberglass)is that expansion and contraction around tight fittings can crack. Vettes are notorious according to a friend of mine that is a body man and owner of older ones.

Someone had brackets for sale on Ebay at a high price but you could easily fab up something like these. They attach to your bumper brackets between the body and bumper and then provide the spot to bolt the fogs. No drilling into bumper or body.

I had a pic but can't seem to locate it now. Basically it was a threaded rod with a bracket on top with a hole to bolt on the fog. On the threaded rod were two clamping brackets and bolts. You fit the brackets on either side, top and bottom, of the bumper support between the body and bumper ans then tighten the nuts to clamp the bracket on. Then attach the fogs. I may have the pic at work so I'll check.

I bought and got the fogs from that Ebay seller. Fast shipping, the lights look great! I opened the lights up and there is a sticker with French language and the Marechall symbol. Who knows where they are really made. Nice for the price!

Good score, sounds like! The ones I have now are 914-standard five-inch Hellas. Very inexpensive and easy to find, but nowhere near as pretty.

These things are good "replicas?" or just the new OEM for the old Marchal distributors. They even have the markings on the body top and emblems for Marchal.

Fred Adler
San Diego

ya - i just changed the bulbs in mine yesterday - they clearly say marchals on them.

OK, now for wiring. In a prior discussion, it was clear that you need to wire them with relays. You guys even sent me wiring links. I thought since I found cheap Marchals, now I would share what looks like a cheap, ready to wire, set up on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AEOIBSAA%3AUS%3A31&viewitem=&item=230267189292

A&M Lighting and Accessories. Wires (right guages), fuses, relays, instructions and switch for $9.99 plus 5 bucks shipping. All lugs soldered for fast contact with color coding.

One question to those that know: I think I do not want their fancy shmancy LED switch. Can I use a more vintage looking ivory pull switch, where do I get it and where do I drill it on the dash assuming standard Vintage layout?

Thanks for the help as usual.

Fred Adler
San Diego

Fred:

That HSIN relay used to be made in India, but now might be made in China (it's been a while since I've seen them.)

The contacts are good for something like 15 Amps, max., before they turn blue and become a twisted cinder of their former self. Actually, the contacts would probably handle 30 amps, but the arm holding the contacts is too thin to do the job.

Check your lights. If they draw 10 amps or more each (depending on the bulbs used) the relay may be inadequate and you should find something rated for 30 amps min. Hella or Bosch make a relay specifically for those kinds of lights (so does Lucas, but they're harder to find), and it is often (but not always) found at Autozone or Advance auto, or any decent speed shop.

You have the option of running a separate switch on the dash (check the photo section on here, but the fog light switch is usually a smaller version of the headlight switch, mounted about 2" to the left of the headlight switch so you can reach it w/o taking your hands off of the steering wheel), or simply wiring the relay signal lead to either low beam (for fog) or hi beam (for driving) and forgetabout a separate switch.

I think I've seen those switches at Tweeks or Stoddard's (they pull out, rather than flip and have a smaller mushroom top) but I've honestly never bought one (I'm wired into high beam for my Marchall driving lights.)

gn

How about this switch? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hella-Fog-Light-Switch-Porsche-356-911-912-914-Mercedes_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ140736QQihZ020QQitemZ300241337279QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVWI don't know if it is correct anyway. Just went to the Dana Pt Concourse and I forgot to look at the fog light switches.
Opnions?

Thanks Fred for the tip on the lights they look pretty good. I think I will just drill through the top of my bumper, anyone figured on layout?

Dave

No. I want to do the same thing but honestly, am scared shitless about drilling into the bumper. No Ooops factor.

At the Dana Point show I spoke with a gentleman who had a 356A with Marchall lights mounted using a bracket from NLA. The bracket was nicely made, and looks like a good way to go. He payed 100.00 for his. I looked at the NLA online catalog this AM and they show the brackets under 356A body electric section. Part number NLA 631 221 06. I called and spoke witha guy at the parts number. At first he had no idea what I was talking about, then with the part number he said they were out of stock. I then asked if out of stock meant a week, month or permanently. He said he did not know. So I left it at that. You can see a picture on the site. The bracket is a good solution, but pricey and he did not know if they were going to have anymore. I think I am going to get a nice piece of aluminum bar stock and do a little bending and drilling and see what a gizmo I can make.

Will,
did you check out switches at the show? Any ideas or are you going with a stealth switch.

Dennis,
Glass is easy to drill just measure twice and cut/drill once. Cutting out for my exhaust system I did it with a sawsall! Just drill a smaller hole first. I do understand that you don't want to mess up the paint.

I took two 3.5 mb pics of different brackets at the C&C anyone who wants the pics email and I will send them out.

Dave

Dave, i saw a few cars with factory switches. on a dash like a speedster or roadster it seems the pull type switch was mounted to the left of the steering column under the tach. I think I will eiher mount a stealth switch under the dash or run the headlight energy to the fog relay. That way the fogs are on when ever the low beams are on.

I called Vintage and they say that they have the fog light switch that was meant to go in.........$25 for the switch and $5 for the knob. Matches the existing Vintage ones which look just like the ones at MidAmerica VW. MidAmerica does not have the switches though. They have the old 914 type which is black with center fog light diagram and made of rubber at outer rim.

I talked to A & M on the relays and they CLAIM that you can run a whole header of high beams across your off road truck with their relay...................who knows until you do it. Turn them one for a while and feel how hot the relay gets. Anyway, I have to STILL wait for the car to get here from Michigan.

Layout:

Well I have been looking at pix I find and it looks like you sight them down the edges of the hood.

And now I know why the "old fashioned" fog lights were yellow:

Are yellow fog lights really better than white or blue ones?

The old wives' tale that yellow fog lights give you greater visibility over white or blue ones is just not true. The premise of that superstition, that yellow light waves are long enough to pass through water particles without reflecting back into the driver's eyes, is based on a misinterpretation of Lord Rayleigh's principle of light scattering. As it turns out, the water particles in fog and mist are entirely too large to have an effect on any light waves from fog lights, be they yellow, white, blue or even green. In other words, any fog light that is properly mounted and aimed is effective, so don't worry about the color.

AND........

Where do I mount my auxiliary lights?

Fog lights should be mounted low on your bumper because they work best when they are close to the ground. The recommended mounting height is between 10" and 14" off the ground. Most vehicles have openings in the front valance specifically for fog lights.

Driving lights are usually mounted higher so that they can be inline with your headlights. Generally, they should be installed between 14" and 30" off the ground, depending on your vehicle. Driving lights can be mounted almost anywhere on your vehicle. Some of the most common spots are on top of the bumper, on grille guards, on billet grilles, on roof-mounted light bars, on roll cages and even on roof racks. Check with your local laws before you mount them because many states have a height restriction on lights for street use.

These are sort of "driving lights" so easy to get them 14 -30" off the ground on top of the bumper........if we drill them.

Gordon,

Here is the Bosch,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-PORSCHE-FOG-LIGHT-RELAY-12V-BOSCH-BUG-BUS-GHIA-TYPE3_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6755QQihZ006QQitemZ160236372555

$8.00 on ebay. The problem is it may also be made in China now. The last one I bought for my old 951 was. Sold that car a while ago. I found the one I took out of it in my toolbox and it too was from China. I guess all the Germans are retired or at least the Bosch plant guys in Broadview, Illinois are.

Here is another good pix of foglight placement. I wish someone had a real tub and a tape measure.

Fred Adler
San Diego

hmmmm, Nice picture Fred, I wonder why the mirrors look a bit cock-eyed though?

No idea. The pix is a customer pix from the IM Canada site.

Fred
San Diego

That's Tom Raymond's Roadster (see attached picture). Henry Reisner (IM) puts the mirrors on the doors at an angle so they actually work better than most, but they do look just a little odd.

Installing the mirrors at an angle really adds to the mirror's functionality. I can actually use both right and left mirrors as intended without making modifications to the mirror. As for looking weird, I guess it is the eye of the beholder, eh? The base of the mirror is installed so that it "parallels" the line of the door seam at that location. Actually, I am surprised that others don't mount the mirrors like that.

"Actually, I am surprised that others don't mount the mirrors like that. "

Me, too.....seems to make a lot of sense.

On the pictures above, the one Lane posted also shows Kathy and me right behind Tom, then Lane, then Leon Chupp and den Da Hoopty.

I love that picture of Tom that Fred posted above that - Can you imagine seeing Tom come up behind you looking like that? The whole picture screams: "GET THE HELL OUTA MY WAY!!"

I found a couple of pics on the brackets I mentioned above...problem is the pics are VERY small and blowing them up distorts them. Perhaps you can still make them out. At any rate, these brackets look very easy to fabricate up with ready rod, some pipe, nuts and washers.

While searching fog light relays and such this predawn Saturday I came across an older post about mesh covers and traced to a memeber who hasnt posted in a while. Hope he's ok and just sold his speedy and moved on to other hobbies.
fog light and headlight matching mesh guards.
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=Dalef&f=Copy+of+P1010153%2EJPG
I think the how to make is in the Knowledge section.
Nope the how to is not in that section, but I know I saw it somewhere.

Dave

If that link doesn't work use this one:
http://speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=Dalef&f=Copy+of+P1010153%2EJPG
Dale's last post was in 2005 when he moved from CA. to WA.

~WB