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Some facts about the winning bidder.

- He's bid on four other VM's (and lost) since February, which sold for between $55K and $80K.

- On the first, he placed eight bids, but the car sold to someone else for $80K.

- On the other auctions, he placed only one or two bids, but dropped out.

- On this one, there was no last minute frenzy. The next to last bid came the night before, and the winning bid the following morning topped that by only $500.

So, our man seems to know what he wanted, came to know the market for the car that he was after, may have been reluctant to pay that much at first, but in the end realized that's what the number is today.

Maybe he didn't like the color of Troy's car, but I think he felt that Roy's 'standing' among sellers on Bat, for want of a better term and whether justified or not, may be tied to the cars' marketability in his mind.

He bids pretty frequently on BaT, on cars as varied as a Fiat Abarth, a Factory Five Cobra, a hot-rodded '62 Dodge Dart, a 66 'Vette, and a '64 Impala lowrider, although he only hung on to win one other of those, the Cobra (which he bought just last month for $65K).

So, does he collect randomly, buy and sell often for short-term profit, or have just enough spare change to go after the oddball offering that grabs him?

Dunno, but the only thing he seems to have consistently and methodically pursued over the past year has been a VM from a seller he knows.

And oh, one other thing. He has consistently asked sellers for driving videos, sometimes 'aggressive' driving videos, when they weren't originally offered.

Is this the most interesting man on BaT?

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Last edited by Sacto Mitch

Wow!

I should get Pearl ready to go onto BaT!

Well, no......   I've come to my senses and will keep her for another year.  

A bird in the hand is worth two or three or four in the bush.  

Unless they're English Sparrows, when you might see twenty or so in the same bush, blowing the premise all to Heck.

They're little buggers, after all......

You have to excuse me - It's been a long evening of TWO little league games.  🤪

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

I don't think the market is that soft for these almost cookie cutter brand new Vintage Motorcars of California replicas with their standard 2,332cc mills. There is a certain demand for them that hasn't been filled yet, there were dozens willing to pay over 70K and they're still out there.

I do think the market is softening for older, even good quality examples as we saw recently even with a nice Beck and several others. Yes Spring may be better but I believe the wildly over exhuberent bloom is off the rose. Especicially as the general market, housing, mortgage, food, oil and general state of world war/unrest continues to settle in or erupt. Just my belief and 2 cents.

Young kids and young adults love this car. A group of three high school boys just finished taking photos for 20 minutes straight not caring what it was. “It’s so beautiful, man. What is it?!  Oh, Porsche. Oh my god….”  I stay away and let them have their time ogling.

Many classic cars start to lose value or taper off when people whose dream car it was start to age out. Originals are 65 years old now and demand continues even with younger generations. It’s a positive indicator for prices. New generations falling in love with them.

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Last edited by Teammccalla
@Teammccalla posted:

Young kids and young adults love this car. A group of three high school boys just finished taking photos for 20 minutes straight not caring what it was. “It’s so beautiful, man. What is it?!  Oh, Porsche. Oh my god….”  I stay away and let them have their time ogling.

Many classic cars start to lose value or taper off when people whose dream car it was start to age out. Originals are 65 years old now and demand continues even with younger generations. It’s a positive indicator for prices. New generations falling in love with them.

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Less than 5% of those young kids "falling in love with" the LOOK can even drive stick lol

I’m not sure.  Manual cars are still the basic rental car in Scotland.  Maybe it’s just here?  Also, analog is “cool”.  Vinyl.  Film cameras.  I overheard some young people talking about how they wanted a stick for their BMW because they were so much better.  Manual cars are better, unless you have a top PDK.  Kids aren’t stupid.

Also yesterday, a kid on a fat tire motorized bike turned around and followed me to a parking spot to ask if I was Bruce Canepa.  He said I kind of looked like him, which I don’t, haha  He regaled me on 917s and the man’s collection.  He knew all about classic Porsches and 356s.  I’m not sure it’s time to give up on the young generation yet.

All of this is to say, our cars may do better on appreciation than some classic cars.  Some cars are just like that — ‘40 Ford, 21-window VW, Testarossa.  These cars are icons.  The 356 is in that group and my guess is that demand will hold.  Not sure I really care because I won’t sell, but there it is.  The only direction I may go at some point is to a real Speedster or early 60s coupe.  

Last edited by Teammccalla
@Teammccalla posted:

I’m not sure.  Manual cars are still the basic rental car in Scotland.  Maybe it’s just here?  Also, analog is “cool”.  Vinyl.  Film cameras.  I overheard some young people talking about how they wanted a stick for their BMW because they were so much better.  Manual cars are better, unless you have a top PDK.  Kids aren’t stupid.

Also yesterday, a kid on a fat tire motorized bike turned around and followed me to a parking spot to ask if I was Bruce Canepa.  He said I kind of looked like him, which I don’t, haha  He regaled me on 917s and the man’s collection.  He knew all about classic Porsches and 356s.  I’m not sure it’s time to give up on the young generation yet.



A month ago at my regular Cars & Coffee I was waylaid by some guy behind my car when two young men in their early 20s walked up from the other direction. While the dude in front of me was talking I overheard one kid ask the other if he thought my car was an original 550, to which the other replied, craning his neck over the cockpit, "I think so, man, those fuel pumps are what's on the real cars."

Knock me over with a feather.

They were gone and I was occupied with another conversation so I have no idea how that boy learned about the Autopulse 500 fuel pump. But I have a theory, and it has to do with stuff like this

And this

And this

I've never been into video games but it seems like a lot of people are and our cars are getting depicted on some of them and becoming part of these games.

Last edited by edsnova
@edsnova posted:

I've never been into video games but it seems like a lot of people are and our cars are getting depicted on some of them and becoming part of these games.

My sportscar addiction traveled an irregular path. As a kid, I wanted a mini-bike so bad that I began working as a 10 year old (for my dad, a plumbing contractor) to buy one. A mini-bike became a motorcycle, which was sold to pay for a car when I was 15. I loved speed and anything with an internal combustion engine.

I paid for everything (clothes included) as a high-school kid, and couldn't afford the car I wanted, so I bought the car I could afford and learned to work on it. I built a couple of muscle-cars before I fell in love with a beautiful girl and sold "the car", bought a 15 year old motorcycle and satisfied my need for speed with something that cost 25% what the car(s) did.

We married young, had kids and sold the motorcycle. Sedans, minivans, and white work vans became my transportation. Life was practical and utilitarian - if it got the job done, I rolled it. I lost track of what was happening in Indycar, stock car racing, and (most surprisingly) drag-racing. I dropped my Hot Rod subscription, but kept C&D - even in the leanest times, I wanted to read Brock Yates, etc.

Vehicles underwent an electronic revolution, and neither I, nor the car friends my age followed the curve. I made friends with guys 10 to 15 years younger who understood the symptomatic difference between a bad crank position sensor and a plugged injector. I sometimes fixed my own vehicles (with their help), but mostly just paid somebody else.

I started a business and it was an instant success. I paid down debt, saved money for my kids college, started an IRA and funded it aggressively. Once I felt like the world wasn't going to open up and swallow me and my family whole, I started wishing for a cool car I could work on and improve with no outside help

... and that's how I landed here. These cars, as delivered 25 years ago, were laughably bad, with room for improvement literally everywhere - suspension, transaxles, brakes, and especially: engines. I learned to love the T1 flat 4 because it was so laughably terrible, and so immensely improvable. I dove in and kept diving, down to the murky depths where nobody I knew was going. I found some treasure down there and a lot of mud and old tires.

I also learned to drive in this car. I grew up in the snowbelt, so drifting a RWD car was something every kid learned. I knew how to keep a muscle-car pointed straight down a country road with another car straining in the lane next to me, but we've got no mountains, so what to do when a rear-engined car starts to slide (either end) was something I learned by doing.

The point of this long and boring story is that in today's sanitized and hand-wringing, pearl-clutching world learning to do this on the street as a young man is an invitation to financial and social ruin.

... and so today's kids with my tendencies learn by buying Gran Turismo (or whatever). Apparently, the software is good enough that aspiring (and actual) F1 hotfeet use it to sharpen skills and learn tracks.

I follow @DannyP's exploits jealously, and think about if that would be possible for me - and know I'll never do it, because deep down - I'm still a practical and utilitarian man, and that the time and expense of it would drive me off. Still, I'd love to have the experience, and wonder (a lot), if the quality of video game racing has gotten to the point that it would provide some sort of weird, dare I say, "virtual" gear-head experience. There are simulator controllers that offer tactile feedback. That seems pretty cool, even to an old analog driver.

Maybe Ed is right. I don't know, but I wonder - and I wonder how a guy tries this without spending a million bucks. I wonder how I can become better, without spending $50k on a track car and everything I know would come along with that.

Last edited by Stan Galat

688AE467-71B6-4B46-B48C-799D5160693F16B1EAF1-2BF6-4A9A-A428-512CBBCA3F0DSorry to sound like a broken record, and don’t intend to offend, but our members cars being sold in BaT simply lack visual interest.
Pay for a professional to shoot your cars for BaT. The $500-$1000 you spend will pay you dividends.

With an online auction, you don’t have the luxury to get the bidders liquored up like they do at Gooding or RM. So you need to hit the bidders based upon emotion. C9C has crisp (non iPhone) photos. The images are sensual (mostly). Their interior pics are great. The angle of the shots are great. The way the sunlight highlights the curves can be magical. Bidders want that romance.

But also, bidders seem to be more comfortable going with a reputable dealer. They are plunking down a lot of money for a sight unseen car. The dealer offers them a bit of relief that a private seller does not.

A number of dealers appear to put more effort in the marketing of the car. The aforementioned photos coupled with the videos, provide a more professional presentation.

It’s more than providing documentation on the car. You’re selling an image. Just look at any product marketing campaign….would Banana Republic be able to sell overpriced clothing if their product was photographed on an iPhone on the side of the road?  No. They are selling a lifestyle.

At the top is a photo shot with my iPhone. I was standing next to a professional photographer when he shot the same image. Which image is more seductive?

When Birdies shoes used my car for their global campaign, it took a number of hours to get the perfect shots. They would ask me to turn the car slightly just to get the right angle for the sunlight to pick up the lines of the car, and my car wasn’t even the focus of their shoot.  (Sample shots below)

56A8ADB5-6396-4276-9CB3-A718B27A68B16CB7F482-39A9-4C25-999D-67D1F5095B76FB245F37-A59A-4696-A3BE-96146EF08505

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I'm right there with you, Stan(and Lane and Kevin).

Back in 1998 I bought a 1991 Vanagon Westy. I had it until 2007-8 when I sold it on ebay. The book value was a paltry sub-$4k at the time. I got almost $10k for it. This was before BaT and just before the campers became desirable to the Subaru-swapping hipster crowd.

Why? Pictures. I took pictures at the top of a local mountain on a twisty road near sunset. I moved the van many times, making the best use of the "golden hour" lighting.

Today, I'd pay someone to do a submission to an auction site. Money well spent, usually.

Stan, if you do a sim, it can be a slippery slope. Michelle doesn't like video games(nothing to do with me), but I'd love to have a driving sim to use. I'd build my own rig(but of course). I'd buy a GOOD force-feedback wheel and a good set of force-feedback pedals and a good shifter. The frame doesn't matter much as long as the seating position is good, the frame is strong, and you're comfortable. I'd build mine from PVC pipe. I'm still on the fence of 3 flat screens vs. VR goggles(they've come a long way). iRacing has good physics, lots of like-minded gearheads, and almost all the tracks.

I even race with the guy whose real FV was used for the virtual model. They loaded his car up with sensors and logged actual in-car data to build the digital version. Pretty cool, huh? Yeah, Formula Vee is one of the "free" cars that you can use on iRacing. Nothing is "free", because you're paying a monthly subscription.

Last edited by DannyP

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The closest I've ever come to playing one of Ed's video games is trying my hand at Four Lane Combat, or, as Caltrans unimaginatively insists on calling it, 'I-80'. The 'Sacto To The Sea' version used to run about 75 minutes, but has proven so popular with gamers that recent releases have been extended to a full two hours.

As an attempt at humor I guess, the whole track has been posted at 65 mph, except for the 'construction' zones, scattered every 10 miles or so, where orange cones narrow the playing field and the 'limit' is set to 55.

But background traffic always does a steady 75-80, with the occasional comatose Buick Regal thrown in at random just to test players' reflexes. This background traffic is the 'dynamic' part of the playing field — a dense pack of commercial vehicles, pickup trucks, silver or white SUV's, and 18-wheelers — all doing the base 75-80 and engaged in a constant, random weave across the four lanes.

Every 10 or 15 minutes, a set of players shows up, usually in groups of three or four and obviously competing with each other for position. This is apparently measured in car lengths. A two or three car-length lead is considered substantial. Five is exceptional.

The players apparently need to stay over 100 mph to be competitive as they dart in and out of the small gaps in the background traffic to advance their position. Judging from how play progresses, there must be substantial penalties for dropping below 100 mph. The goal is to advance through the dynamic field without being delayed by CHP, which is tricky, as most CHP units wear no distinguishing markings.

As in Ed's game, players choose their own cars and 'liveries', although all of them have been lowered compared to the background traffic, apparently to make it easier for players to identify each other.

Unlike Ed's game, though, players' cars don't just 'flash' or 'bang' when they strike other cars or bridge abutments. The whole game slows to a crawl for extended periods. The 'dead' cars are left in the traffic lanes, along with an assortment of 'emergency' vehicles, giving all traffic more obstacles to weave around.

I think players also get to choose and clothe their own individual insurance adjusters, fender repairmen, and at advanced levels of play, defense attorneys.

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Last edited by Sacto Mitch

This has turned into a beautiful thread.  @Stan Galat your post is beautiful. I’ve worked hard and invested in my career and so now I can rationalize “grown up toys.” However, I can relate to buying what you can as a young man and loving/improving that. My best example of that was the Morris Minor. VWs can be a similar experience for young people. They aren’t as common now though. I wonder what the current cars to toy with are. WRXs are too expensive for most kids, I assume.

The posts about video games are fascinating.  Photography is another interest. Thanks to all.

@Troy Sloan posted:

I'm not sure if there is or isn't a "perception of more protection buying from a business," but personally I have always preferred buying vehicles from a private party rather than a dealer.

That made me laugh Troy, as a one time reseller the deals to be had are not at the dealer unless your better at choosing cars than they are

:9)   just saying … but Stan is right sight unseen ….

Probably not enough time for a PPI when buying off an auction sight like BAT. So, yeah, pig in a poke no matter who the auction seller is.

PPI, for sure, well you could use one of those PPI’s for the upset stomach you get watching the dance and reading the comments.   I find auctions are so temperamental and euphoric that as a rule I stay off of them completely and watch the crazyness from the sideline.     But hey, to each his own.

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