Insurance

American Modern is the company I use because they will allow me to drive my car to work and will put that in a declaration page in the policy.  Hagarty will not put that in writing and that is why I left them.  I have an Agreed Value policy with American Modern and I deal with them directly, not through GEICO.  I've never had a claim with them and they have never given me any problems, so I am anxious to here what your problem is with them.

State Farm.

 

Agreed value policy from the largest insurance carrier in the world. Not the cheapest, but not many (any, really) restrictions, and I get to deal with a local agent. Tell 'em how much you plan to drive it (annual mileage), and they'll set the rate accordingly. No "parade and show" restrictions. No "you can't park it at work" restrictions. No "no errands" monkey business.

This insurance stuff can get really frustrating.  When I was looking for another company, I called State Farm and they told me they didn't write Agreed Value policies.
I'll try them again and see what they say this time.  Maybe I'll  need your agents name if they tell me no again.

Troy, I just got my American Modern renewal and it went up 20%.  Let me know what you hear from State farm.  A.M. is still cheap, but if I can go with a company like State Farm for the same cost I'd switch.

Troy, et al, 

I started the coverage w/ American 9/15 the day I bought my Speedster @ $275 w/ Agreed Value @ $22k w/ no restrictions. I sent them the signed paper work they lost half of it ( go figure ) and so a second signed group was sent. At least six different people were involved. I got a letter yesterday that said my policy was cancelled on 11/24 for missing pages. No pages that needed signatures just added data. When I asked why they didn't call or at least e mail me I was told it's my responsibility to check my policy on the web site for updates. So I was driving around w/o coverage. I asked for the pages in question and they sent me three typed data only pages that I send back and they will review and advise. So as we use to say in the military AMF. No on to State Farm or Hagarty. By the way talking to them was like speaking to the IRS! 

 

Tom,

That's where my trouble started, I have Geico on my 2 day to day cars and they said they don't do Classic/Modified but farm it to a partner, American Modern. It's American I've had my Kafka experience w/.

Craigr, check your dialog box. I sent you a IM regarding your car.  Steve

BTW I also noticed American Modern is not renewing on AAA paperwork.  They list the same address, but the company name says Lighthouse Risk and Ins Solutions.  I wonder if AAA had too many legal issues with pass-through claims?  I'm starting to worry.  I'm gonna go tomorrow in person and ask some tough questions about the change.

I don't blame you, I would leave them too if I had those kind of issues with them. My experiences with them have been exactly the opposite.  Told them what I needed, they sent me some forms and the premium.  I just needed to send them some pictures and that was that.

I contacted State Farm.  They would not sell me an agreed value policy.

Yesterday Farmer's quoted me $580 for an Agreed policy, I called a local State Farm guy, still waiting. Looks like Hagerty's may be my best choice.

$254 at Hagarty with $20,000 agreed value.  Drop their road trip protection coverage to save some money.  Location, mileage per year, and where stored (garage, carport, etc.) will affect cost.

I've used Grundy's on all my cars with agreed value on coverage for years. Just added the Speedster for $217 a year with $25k agreed value. Sure there are restrictions but I've never had an issue with them. Of course I do not use any of the 'toys' as daily drivers yet I will take them to meet with friends for lunch or run to the store or parts store or to just go for a cruise. We've also gone on long weekend trips in them on occasion.

 

I do pay for the road trip coverage and it was well worth it when we had to use it when the MSD box failed in Vic's Mustang in Wyoming on our way to a Mustang RoundUp at Medicine Bow a few years ago, middle of nowhere and the car just died...well worth it IMO

Do you ever drive your car to work?  If so, ask Hagarty if they allow that.  They will tell you that they do.  Ask them to put it in writing and they won't do it. Their policy declaration page states driving for "pleasure use only."  American Modern also has the same declaration, but they will add an exclusion to that declaration that states the car can be "driven to work occasionally."

We all know that driving our cars is always a pleasure, but I'm not so sure that would hold up in court.  I'm not too sure that "they told me I could drive it to work" would hold up in court either.

"run to the store or parts store"  Are you confident that would be considered driving for "pleasure?"  Seems like more of a utility use, like we use or daily drivers.

I really wish it didn't have to be this complicated, but they write this detailed language into policies for a reason.

Tom.  That is the same thing they told me.  I called again yesterday and I'm waiting to hear back from them.  Maybe they offer it in some states and not others.

I have Grundy, costs $303 a year for agreed value of $42,000 (their figure, originally is was $36,000 but each year they up the agreed value). Had one $8,900 claim a year ago, they sent an estimator who spoke with a high-price muscle car restorer/repair shop and I received a check for the full amount. I have been assured verbally and in writing that Car Shows, Parades, displays and occasional personal/pleasure drives are all acceptable. 

Hi Nolan.  Defining "personal/pleasure" is where my issue with Hagarty surfaced. When I asked them specifically, they said that a trip to the grocery store or to work was not a "pleasure" drive and was not covered.  To and from car shows or just going for a cruise for no other purpose was covered.  They told me that an occasional drive to work wasn't going to be a problem, but they wouldn't state it in writing.

Grundy never ask where or why I was out driving my car. As it was, I was taking a pleasurable drive to a Doctor's appointment when a cop decided to end his shift early and lit up his lights to get through the intersection against a red light, the station was about 300 yards down the street. My view was blocked and I didn't realize everyone had slammed on their brakes until it was too late and I hit the guy in front of me. I did not get a citation and the police report made no mention of guilt on my part only that "An Emergency Vehicle entered the intersection with light and no siren.

Troy, The local agent for State Farm here in Red Bank NJ checked w/ the underwriter who said that Agreed Value was acceptable! Never heard of Grundy but I will look into their offerings. I retired from corp ad agency slavery, Driving to work for me is the 5PM bar opening at the Boat Club ! 

Now that is definitely defined as a pleasure cruise....at least on the way there.  Hopefully, the drive home wouldn't be defined as a DUI cruise.

Because of Nolan I called Grundy. Agreed Value at $ 22k, no limitations $300 K liability and a quote of $376. So I ask why  my bruther in Tenn. gets a discount and I'm paying full fare. Presto rate change to $320!

Owe you some Irish Nolan!

I cannot get insurance with Hag or Grundy as my car is in a tent. I plan on building a garage, but environmental rules at Lake Tahoe make this a difficult task. I was with State Farm but they refused to renew my homeowners after 35 years because I live in a "fire zone." I found coverage with AAA but they will not do stated value. They did state they would use current pricing of my car if I needed to settle a total loss claim. Maybe I am naive, but at least I am covered. It was not cheap though like Hag or Grundy. 

Your profile says you own a Vintage, is it registered as a 60 something VW?  If so, you are in the exact situation that I get concerned about.
Also, you wanted agreed value, not "stated value."

Correct a Vintage 69 VW pan. Grundy send me the proposal that states "Agreed Value" w/o use restrictions. 

Troy my speedy is registered as a 66vw State farm insured it for stated value at $32k. There were restrictions on driving. Since I am retired all my driving is pleasure. It was actually more specific as to and from shows, road testing, parades. If anyone has this coverage with State Farm beware of the restrictions, it is the same as Hag or Grundy. My AAA is OK for any driving, but again it is based on current market value of comparable vehicles. That means what others are selling for at the time of loss and not depreciation as that would be impossible to calculate. 

 

       
       

I was referring to majorkahuna's post.

       
       

Can someone speak to this more clearly than I apparently am?  It doesn't look to me like the points I am trying to make are understood.

"Stated Value" is bad.

 

"Agreed Value" is good. 

FWIW - I understand it this way:

 

"Stated Value" is what YOU claim your car is worth at the time your policy is written. That 'value' will change (depreciate) as time progresses up to the day you file a claim.

 

"Agreed Value" is the appropriate replacement value agreed upon by both YOU and the Insurance company and documented as such.

Here's another way to look at the difference between Agreed and Stated values:

 

Agreed value is how much you will be paid for your car in the event of theft or total loss.

 

Stated value is basically only used to determine the premium amount, nothing more.  Stated value policies say on their declaration page: In event of theft or total loss, the insurer will pay stated value OR actual cash value, whichever is less.  Which option do you think will be "less"?  It's much more than depreciation.  The ACV of your car may be nowhere near the stated value WHEN YOUR POLICY STARTS, never mind years down the road.

 

Insurance companies smile when a replica owner insures a car registered as a 1957 VW for $30,000. In that way, they get the big premium with no risk, since the acv for a 57 VW is about $800, if you're lucky.  Don't let them make fools of us.  Buy an Agreed Value policy that has restrictions you can live with, and follow the guidelines of your policy.  If you want/need less restrictions, those policies are out there, but they will cost more for unlimited miles.  

 

Who wants to get in a wreck and then have to worry about coming up with a story that your insurance company will believe?  These guys aren't dummies. "Well, I was driving to Indiana to participate in this old car parade.  My policy states . . ."

 

The real risk is not with the insurance company only paying you $800 for your car.  That would be a tough hit, but you could survive financially.  However, what if you are at fault/partial fault in a serious accident with lots of injuries, and your company denies coverage, because you were "creative" about mileage and use? Come on, guys, sharpen up! Pay a couple hundred bucks more a year for guilt-free driving.  None of us can afford not to.  We're all driving in the most litigious country in the world.

 

According to my agent it is ok and would be covered if something should happen 

as long as it not an every day occurrence. Also we've made trips of 2-7 days to events in NV, Utah, Wyo, So Dakota and the distances driven and while at the event are covered. I've only had one claim with them and was for a broken drivers side window on the F-100 two years ago...some idiot tried to break into the truck  our first night in Green River, Utah at an event and broke the window, damaging the power window motor...Grundy sent out a claims adjuster, no questions asked as why we were so far from home turf, just what happened and they put me in contact with a reputable shop in Green River that replaced the window and motor the following day and they paid the claim in full for the repairs.

Jim and Jim have it mostly correct except for this statement below. You can register your car as 1957 VW and buy the agreed value insurance policy to protect yourself.  The policy is rated as modified classic and the premium is calculated using the agreed value premium (30k for example).  The policy should note on the application 1957 VS Speedster 356 Porsche Replica.  Most of these polices do have milage and usage restrictions (Pleasure Driving and Events/Shows).  This is the reason the premiums are cheaper, not because your going to get $800.00 settlement value.  As I mentioned before you need to send in the Proof of Value.  This can be done with appraisals, proof of purchase, other comps of same vehicle, etc....  You should also send in pictures of all four side of the car, the interior and the engine bay.  If your car has other special items like those crazy expensive Bivens/Coddington wheels, I would note that as well.  

 

Hope that helps.  For full disclosure; Yes, I was raised in an Insurance Brokerage. This advice is general and rules and regs vary. Each State has it own insurance department that the carrier files their policies with.  Read the policy and ask your agent lots of questions.  I know many people like to buy online or with an 800# but this is a product I would only buy from an agent or firm that knows what they are doing.  Best advice is to find an agent that is a car guy himself and get off the tush and go there.  Let them see the car if they are not up to date on what a 356 Replica is.  

 

Insurance companies smile when a replica owner insures a car registered as a 1957 VW for $30,000. In that way, they get the big premium with no risk, since the acv for a 57 VW is about $800, if you're lucky.

G.R.

Read this part of Jim Kelly's post again.  It's great that they paid for your window motor, but it might have been a lot different if it was a six or seven figure liability claim like Jim described.

"The real risk is not with the insurance company only paying you $800 for your car.  That would be a tough hit, but you could survive financially.  However, what if you are at fault/partial fault in a serious accident with lots of injuries, and your company denies coverage, because you were "creative" about mileage and use? Come on, guys, sharpen up! Pay a couple hundred bucks more a year for guilt-free driving.  None of us can afford not to.  We're all driving in the most litigious country in the world."

 

Theron.

Is there a way for you to keep Jim and Jim's posts in a location that can be easily found or referred to when this insurance topic comes up again?  It's a very important part of Speedster ownership.  Every bit as important as how to tune your carbs or what wheels will look best on someone's car.

If you are honest you have no need to be " 'creative' about mileage and use" is my take on it. One other thing many people use State Farm to insure classic cars...but that is only in states that State Farm offers it...here in Colorado they will not touch classic coverage, nor will Progressive or AllState, so as a classic car owner you have to find another carrier. I happen to like Grundy and my agent is a classic car guy owning a '65 Mustang fast back Shelby clone and a '66 SS Chevelle.

As the saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."