Insurance, Vin#, make of vehicle - ASVE?

I'm in the process of buying a speedster in my area. However I have come across a couple of snags that perhaps some of you would be kind enough to help me with?

The title saids the car is a 1991. However the car is built on a vw chassis. The vin# number when given to the insurance people does not register at all. The vin is only ten numbers long with no letters?

AS for make of vehicle it saids "ASVE" what does that mean? The bank accused me of buying a recreational vehicle. Body style is "RD". What does that mean?

The insurance folks will only give me liability. Who offers full coverage?

What happens with emissions when the car is registered as a 91?

An answer to one or all these questions would be appreciated.

Thanks from a hopefully soon to be speedster owner.

What state are you in?
-=theron

The State of Confusion.....

Catatonic state

Several suggestions: (1) Do your due diligence and check out the Search Forum and Knowledge areas, looking for "title" and "insurance" threads. You will get some great ideas that show how others have dealt with these issues; (2) Consider using a title service to get around the problems with registration. I used US Title@futuretech-enterprises.com. (3 Contact Hagerty.com as a possible source of insurance...there are plenty of other good companies that understand the replica market, as well.

I agree with Brian's suggestions. I use Hagerty, but am looking at Grundys this year. Also, re; your 10 didget VIN Number? I just looked at mine and it is a 9 didget set of numbers, no letters.... FWTW. I too used a title service to get it registered as a 1957 Porsche Speedster - VS. I then did a title change locally and have it registered that way. If I had started with my state they would have registered it as a 69 VW Sedan.....

I think there is a recent thread about the current issue of Car & Driver having a piece on registering "kit Cars" in different States. But like Brian said.... check out our archives. You'll find boo-coo stuff there.

Jim

I'm in houston texas. I found out that Asve on the title means assembled vehicle. I was told the speedster was built in california by fiber fab in 1991. The donor car was a 72 vw. Strange the vin# of the donor car was not used to register it. Thanks, for the prompt response.

btw I'm in a state of sheer excitement! I've wanted one of these cars since 1984. I still have my original CMC catalogue I ordered from the now defunct company.

You need to contact the DMV they have a department for this .It may have to be retitled if it was handled wrong the first time or has crossed a state line.
This stuff varys so much from state to state, The DMV can tell you what is what and if you (ASK) have to offer a course of action to clear it up.
The previous owner, (MUST) help by proving ownership and previous (tax)and licecence, must be up to date.
And It is possible to get it re titled again Legaly Depending on where you are maybe even by the old Vin.
But most likely that Vin was decomissoned by the state. But you need to check. If not decomissoned file for a lost title of the orginal model year.
Again this varys from state to state. In those cases there will be surprizes.

It would also be wise to contact the builder If they are still in busness
One of these should clear the issues up.

Paul,

You might want to check with the other Texas members on this site.

Paul, per Bruce's suggestion I used our locator to find a Texican for you (I live in OKC). I would contact Jack Moore. It says on the current info that he lives in Allen, but I sure thought he lives in Arlington. Regardless, he is in Texas and owns two CMC Speedsters, He's a good guy and will help you with info if he can. His mail is:

jackmoore2000@hotmail.com

Thanks a bunch guys for all the feedback. More then I could have hoped for. I heard back from the seller and he said his wife is a vp of a insurance company and that they gave him a hard time til he sent them a pick of the vw vin#. He told me to call his wife and maybe she could hook me up with some insurance. The seller assured me he never had a problem with the title nor with the emission testing. The safety and registration on the car is all up to date. We should do the deal this coming saturday.

Thanks again and thanks for the e-mail to the tx member.

I used a title company. I'm now titled as a 57 Porsche convertible. I used the VW VIN#.

I had the car appraised by a professional appraisal company. They were given all the information about VS and the going sale price for a new VS.I then was able to insure it with my regular insurance company for full appraised value.

I live in Massachusetts.

I wouldn't advise anyone to register their car as a "Porsche". The car is not a "Porsche" and any highway patrol officer can easily impound the vehicle for fraudulent title information.
-=theron

Theron,
I agree with you that it is not a good idea to register a car as a Porsche if it is in fact not one. State laws vary as I suspect does the knowledge of highway patrol officers, but calling one of our VS/JPS/IM/SAW etc cars a Porsche seems to be a blatant misrepresentation of a fact. I have been led to believe that some states would not be amenable to titling pan based VW Speedsters as VW's either, since the finished product is substantially altered in appearance from the original vehicle. Some states have made provisions for specially constructed vehicles which our cars fit neatly into, but there can be problems with YOM registration; emissions compliance and higher insurance premiums come to mind. The best advice to give someone considering purchasing a replica car is to research your state's laws carefully and make good choices when it comes to registration.
John H.

Boy, if you can't call it a Porsche, what can you call it? A JPS? a VS? All I know I had to make two trips down to the DMV here in Oregon. I had the California title that listed it as a 67 VW. That caused real problems with the DMV, They had never seen a VW like that. I tried to explain what it was, showed them the Vin #, title, etc. Sent me back home until I got a letter from the Manufacturer, in this case JPS. Brought it back to the DMV and got a guy who knew what it was, no sweat, titled it as a 57 Porsche. I was outa there and haven't been back. I have the feeling that to get plates, bring as much documentation as possible, especially if you are changing state titles as I was. P.S. The guy checked the computer for vanity plates for me and indicated that plate ID, "57 Porsche" was available. I didn't want to pony up the extra bucks so I got the blue Crater Lake plates that look nice on the red car.

Bruce

In what state do you reside where you can have 9 letters
or numbers "57 porsche" is at least 9.....

....and so, now we are back to the discussion of Porsche badging !
A misrepresentation and maybe taking something away from the builder?

John,

Excellent point you make. I guess I've been concerned in the back of my pea brain about the same thing. I guess two things come to mind, one Joan Claybrook is no longer the Sec of Transporation but she is still lurking out there as she seems to get published along with her restrictive thoughts. Two, the kit car/replicar segmant doesn't have any lobbying force working for us. Kinda like the millions of smokers that get dumped on by taxes and restrictions, and hey, I'm not a smoker. To get favorable legislation passed you must spend bushels of money. Reason doesn't work with legislators any more, if it ever did.

In my case I was so glad to get my plates that I kept a very low profile and said "yes Ma'm and yes sir," to whatever they said. I know, a wimp but the DMV and other like agencies seem to be easier on us if we comply to whatever rules they try to interperet. In my case they had to go to the "BIG" book of rules and it took them probably 20 minutes to come up with a vague ruling on the car. As we seem to be growing in numbers it is hard to determine if this is good or bad. Maybe what they learned from my case may help them in the future but unfortunatly the individuals treated my case differantly in each case. Don't have an answer, probably will continue to muddle thru as we all have.
California seems to title the car from the donor serial number, Oregon took the serial number but called it a Porsche, who the hell knows!

Bruce

My CMC was bought in Mississippi and the title from there used the CMC build plate found on the driver's side door piller (C001157). Mississippi used this as a VIN # and so did North Carolina. Also Haggertys used it in the insurance I have with them. They covered the C style speedster for full replacement cost ($20,000 +) for $189.00 per year.

At the risk of offending someone on this site who may work for the DMV..Most of them don't know a Porsche from a Packard, Especially
if its not right in front of them...If you have a VIN no. Thats
the Gospel...It's when you start asking questions, like, how do I
register this special car, yadda yadda yadda, that they get all confused and then start the research.....give them a VIN and act more
stupid then them...They like that....
Needed to take a driving test for my motorcycle license, they require
insurance on the bike you are talking the test on...showed them my
policy for my harley, problem was I was driving a Honda for the test...They never noticed....
Keep your mouth shut and act stupid...If it don't work you haven't
lost anything.........

Notes from the Northeast:
My CMC is registered as the VW it came from, a 1969 Beetle. None of this snobby "Porsche" stuff for me, no SIR! (OK, so it says "Porsche" on the back - let's not get picky........)

Massachusetts (where I first registered it) required only my original bill of sale, (it was too old to need a title, nor did the past owner have one) a copy of the past registration and a filled out DMV-1 form requesting a new registration and title. I provided the original VW VIN, but I told them that I had put a new convertible body on it and had also changed the color from red to white - No problem whatsoever - the lady behind the DMV counter has a brother with an autobody shop so she understood. Got my Mass. registration and Title as a white 1969 VW convertible.

Then moved to Rhode Island and re-registered it here. RI DMV requires your local police office to verify that the VIN number on the car matches that on the title for used cars (RI has more car thefts than ANYWHERE!!). While they waived my car as too old to need the VIN verification (??), I just about emptied the police office as everyone wanted to go out to see it in the lot. The RI DMV looked at my Mass. registration, Mass title, the waiver from the local cops and said "no problemo" and gave me my plates and a new RI title as a white, 1969 VW convertible.

I, personally, would have a problem registering it as a "Porsche". Let's face it, it's not, and Theron brought up a good point about problems of fraudulent registration. Besides, Prof. Conrad, my Business Ethics professor those many years ago, would highly approve of what I did.

Not only that.......all the local cops now know me and wave when they see me coming!!

gn
the Speedstah guy from Roe Dyelin

My title says:

Year 1957

Make: Vintage Speedsters Porsche Replica

Body Type: 2dr Conv

Model: Speedster 1600 Super


It even goes on to state the original price from Kirk


Now, I have a title for the car that describes it just as it is written up for insurance with the Agreed insured price sitting right smack on my title. No misrepresentation.

Jim

Jim: They'd never do it that clearly here in Rhode Island. It would make it too hard to fence a $20K Speedster or Lexus for $1600 here. The Atwells Ave. guys (snuffer and fence friends of the Sopranos) wouldn't have as much to do.

'sides, the Roe Dyelin Depahtm'nt ah Motah V'hicles only went "computa-ized" last yeeah.....'fore that they did ever'thin on papah.
.....'course, the main reg'stry orfice had a flood ovah New Yeeahs and shut down the system and all theah old papah rec'ds were lost, so I guess they gotta b'lieve my title papah now.......An I'm not makin this up, eadah.

This is a fun state to live in......honest! You just need a decoder ring to talk with people!

Gordon
the Speedstah guy from Roe Dyelin

P.S. Finally warmed up enough to go back to my Topsidas 'n no socks!

Bruce,
My Algebra was titled as a '68 VW and I was personally never very comfortable with that. The good news was I got through the title and registration process with ease, even easier than you did with your two trips to the DMV. The titling process in Tennessee was just as easy. I think that as long as we are only looking for the easiest route, we may overlook consequential effects down the road. Although kit/replica cars are an ant hill in the mountains of cars registered across the country, they are flourishing, as evidenced by the magazines we read and indeed the growth of this website. As our numbers grow, so does our visibility to regulatory agencies. The goals of these agencies are sometimes capricious.

What happens to future owners of one of our cars that is not correctly titled? What happens if a car titled as a Porsche winds up on a used car lot and some cigar chewing salesman, through ignorance or by design, tries to pass the car off as what the titles says it is? Litigation city. Maybe we live "below the radar" since we are relatively small in number and don't create problems for anyone. That could change, and that wouldn't be good for any of us. We could wind up with Joan Claybrook breathing down our necks and asking embarassing questions.

Let's just be careful of what we think and what we do. I love this hobby and want to be involved in it for a long time.
my 6 kroner
John H.

Sorry Jim, I love ya, But I gotta go with Johnny here...its not
a 57 its a 2001, which in California means smog control....

In many states they let the engine year and chassey year, dictate the titling of most general kits cars.(which ever is newer)
But in immisson controling states they force you to modernise. I would actually prefer going by a donner car title (Less red tape).

When I registered my Speedster here in Maryland they titled it by the year of registration but control emissions by the year of chassis/engine. Since the year of my engine/chassis is 1976 - no emmissions testing.

Exactly. If you built a kit on a earlier than 1966 pan you can even dodge the seat belt laws, if you realy wanted to.

But in a open car I think they make it safer.

Jim,
That solution is almost perfect. The only thing I wonder about is the year as stated on the title. YOM isn't 1957, is it? Wasn't your car built in 2001? Would the 1957 part be more accurately be part of the model? Not a criticism, just trying to work this out in my own head.
John H.
ps. You plannin' to do Knotts in 2005?

Speaking of emmisions control, here in Southern Oregon they have the sniffers for all new registered cars. I was really sweating it out because I had fears the JPS wouldn't pass and I had no idea what I would have to do to pass it. I guess they were so involved trying to figure what this thing was, the emmissions form never was presented or even mentioned. As I said before I kept a very low profile throughout the whole procedure so figured the worst thing I could do is ask questions. I got my plates and stole away into the night. I guess the second question that comes to mind is what year the engine is, it is a new case with new innards so in my mind it was a 2003 engine on a 1967 pan. Sure glad I didn't have to cross that bridge because it never came up. Thank You Speedster Gods!

Bruce