Interested in a local Spyder

Sounds like you have a good deal.  The car looks great except for the fender darts. they look a little narrow where they intersect with the tail lights. Not a big deal but it did catch my attention.  Are the photos new or taken when the car was new ?........Bruce

Hi Bruce I just took the pictures yesterday. The trouble with the darts too is they're blue when the interior is red. He was going to redo the interior. I would have maybe left it but now the colors look wrong.

I'm 6' 240. I've owned a Speedster for 25 years and have figured out how to make it work (with considerable customization).

A Spyder is much, much smaller in the cockpit. I'd love one, but I don't fit and never will. Maybe you can make it work, but I have doubts. Believe it or not -- it's the length of your torso that's a bigger issue than your legs. Dropping the seat on the floor and tipping it back are your only hope, but I'd not buy it unless you fit.

If you can take the seat out altogether, sit on the floor and see where the windshield frame falls. If you're still too high, nothing you do will make it better.

Some physiologies just don't work.

    ^   what stan said...i'm 6' 2"   i barely fit in my coupe comfortably...my buddy has a 550 spyder replica...i LOVE his car!!...i have sat in it and it's "mission impossible"...it would UNSAFE to even drive out of the parking lot....let alone god forbid getting upside down.....sadly, some things are just not meant to be....   just IMHO  @Adrian Tayne

Gen 2 & 3 cars have a recess in the firewall to buy some extra leg room.  If you know how to fiberglass, you could recess the firewall yourself to get the seat even further back.  We also have a custom seat shell that is more upright for even a little more room, however that can be counter productive as it buys leg room but you are more upright so you can lose in head room.

You are limited in what you can do otherwise to gain some room, but you are correct in thinking about removing the seat tracks and any spacer that was used under the seat in the build.  This will buy 3/4" in height at a minimum.

The bulge under the dash is/was to clear the outlet bung in the most commonly used VW fuel tanks.  It is not necessary in the tanks that we can get today and may or may not be in play for your.  You'd have to get under the car and see if it is required to clear the fuel outlet, and if not it can be cut out and glassed over, buying a little room there.  You can get a little adjustment in the old style VW pedals, but hat is extremely limited and you have to get full stroke on the clutch and brake before it hits the firewall.  The master cylinder is as far forward as it can go and almost touching the front beam, so movement of the entire assembly is not possible.

The pictured steering wheel look like a 360mm, and they make that same wheel in a 330mm, which I suggest to bigger guys to buy a little extra room as well.

Fitment aside, if you are able to make yourself comfortable I see a handful of things that you'd want to look at.  The passenger side fuel line is unsecured and hanging, and to me, looks too close to the exhaust.  ***(EDIT: on 2nd look this is the battery ground cable that is close to the exhaust at #3 cylinder.  You still wouldn't;t want it to melt, but not a detrimental item like a fuel line would be.)***   Same for the passenger brake hose.  This could be the angle of the photo, it is hard to tell, but worth the look.

There are some clearly homemade items, such as the throttle linkage and the clutch bell crank and linkage.  If they work, great, but something also to look at.  Nothing wrong with homemade and "one off" just not something I've ever seen.

As for a wide five conversion, you cannot do this with spacers unless you want to run a ton of ride height and have the wheels sticking out past the body 1" in each corner.  You have long axles, so you'd have to either change to short axles or have custom wheels made for the rear (or run 4.5" rear with skinny tires).  Any way you shake it out, you'll have $3500 into doing a wide five conversion, and possibly more if you aren't mechanical and can change your own axles/tubes.

Overall looks like a descent home-build with a handful of the most popular accessories.

Carey-I think that clutch setup looks a lot nicer than the Rube Goldberg pulley you replaced on my Spyder!

I have a different take than most: I’m 6’2” 285 and I “fit” in my Spyder just fine. I sure I l looked like a monkey humping a football, but I didn’t buy it for what I looked like. I bought it for, as you so aptly put it, “the most visceral driving experience” ever. The difference, I have a long torso. 32” inseam and 17.5x34\5 shirt size.

Carey warned me before he installed the Speedster windshield after I bought it that the header would hit me right in my line of sight and he was right. (Of course) I dealt with it for a couple of years until I started driving it more and noticed the result was that I was slouching down in my seat in order to see under it and after 30 minutes or so my back would start hurting. I re-installed the lexan screen that the car had on it originally and bought a pair of ANSI goggles and all was right with the world (and my back)

Like this one, I had a Gen 1 w/o the scalloped bulkhead, my seats (probably the upright ones Carey mentioned) were all the way back and mounted to the floor. I replaced my OEM VW pedals with CNC pedals without any gain or loss in legroom, but I sure missed the area under the clutch that the VW pedals allow to stretch my left leg out.

I think I had an old 340 mm with a 1-2” dish with a thinner rim, the new 330mm and 340mm Classics look like their rims are thicker, although it may be an optical illusion due to the smaller diameter of th3 wheel.

As for Wide 5 conversion, you can get 4bolt Vintage 190s now that are aluminum copies of the original Wengel (?) wheels. Add a baby moon or nipple hubcap and you’re golden. Danny mentioned one time the wide 5 V190s are a tad wider that steel, but you’d have to talk to Greg at VMC to get the skinny (pun intended) on the 4 bolt version. I talked my buddy out of doing a conversion and I think it turned out great.

I wear size 11-11.5 shoes and I get around the scrote by wearing skinny driving shoes, but Danny says he often drives barefoot.

Me verdict: buy it and give it a year. Slim chance you’ll lose money on it if you don’t fit. Unless you ABSOLUTELY DONT’ FIT like Stan.

@Adrian Tayne posted:

Hi Bruce I just took the pictures yesterday. The trouble with the darts too is they're blue when the interior is red. He was going to redo the interior. I would have maybe left it but now the colors look wrong.

If the price of the car is decent, a new interior wouldn't be so bad. I know of a possible line on blue Vintage Spyder seats if you are interested.

@dlearl476 yes, I had forgotten about the old pulley wheels.  It was Chuck's take on a 914/901 type clutch mechanism, but I'm guessing sourced from the local hardware.  The Brazilain designed pivot is pretty nice and we used it for a long time.  It has to be beefed up with a heavier than stock pressure plate, but it worked well for the most part.  That said, since we've gone hydraulic I wouldn't go back...

Yes. I spent a good deal of my ~10 years of ownership removing the Home Depot cabinet and plumbing hardware from my car.

Hydraulic and Cable shifters is the “only way to fly” IMO. After I got my car home, I finished the job with CNC brake and clutch pedals.

@Adrian Tayne posted:

Hi Bruce I just took the pictures yesterday. The trouble with the darts too is they're blue when the interior is red. He was going to redo the interior. I would have maybe left it but now the colors look wrong.

Are the darts painted it vinyl? If paint, you could easily put correct red vinyl darts on it. If vinyl, you could easily have a vinyl shop remove them.

if you friend will let you 'experiment' before you buy the car:

A- remove the seat bottom pad and just put a thin piece of foam pad   

B- set seat directly onto the floor with some spacer (3/4"?) in front to tilt it back a bit

either of these should allow you to see if that gets you close enough for confidence of fit.

if so then buy it and proceed with modifications..if not, then hard pass.  too much work, time and $ for a maybe.

as for actual mods, I would go in this order...

1. remove some padding thickness from the seat bottom.  1/2" thinner combined with removing the seat tracks may get you plenty and not need # 2... but if you need a little more then proceed to 2.

2. make a bulge in the firewall for the seatback to recess into.. only have to do it near the top.  -- when you test fit the seat on the floor you'll see where the seat back contacts the firewall. --the green outline approx.

3. mount the seat for you and you alone..

4. Agree with @dlearl476 put red vinyl darts over the blue (appearance only for now- but this is a low hanging fruit type of change that's not permanent.   If you decide you want blue interior pull off the vinyl or if keeping it red, you can paint correct later if it really bothers you.

5- pause the mods here and be sure you want/need to proceed

6. replace tank with newer style or have the fuel pickup bung relocated to the front edge of the tank  & then cut and re-glass the protrusion for the fuel pickup per Carey's comments

By then you'll have lots of other mods you'll want to do.

7. wheels would save for last... be cautious of the vintage aluminum wheels.. offset may be an issue with fender clearance. Just saying to confirm before you buy.

This 'advice' and $5 might buy you a starbucks grande americano..  Not responsible for any decisions made off this free advice.  Your decisions and expenses are yours and yours alone as free advice is often worth what is paid for it.  

I was going to type out a lengthy reply, but Wrenn basically nailed it.

You may get enough height drop by merely bolting the seats directly to the floor. I also tilted the front of the seat up about 1.5", and my car has the firewall recess. I didn't need to thin the seat pad. That works for me at 5'9" and normal proportions with a 31" inseam. I am comfortably below the 356 Speedster windshield frame.

Thanks for everybody for sharing your thoughts, ideas, and comments! I went back over to my buddy's place yesterday to do some experimenting. We got the seat slid all the way back on the sliders so it's touching the firewall, the slider had been jammed up before. I took the cushion out and replaced it with another, thinner cushion he had lying around . These changes got my eyes below the speedster windshield frame and my legs straight and below the wheel.

We also took the wheel off and mocked up a 330mm MOMO he had, which gave me even more room. I went for a drive with the larger wheel and me legs, wheel, and sightline all seem to be resolved. I did have to take my right shoe off to clear the tank bulge so I may modify that in the future but for now it seems like driving shoes or slippers will solve that. Or even a pad under my heal and I'll drive barefoot on that foot.

What a blast the car is! I've decided to buy it from him and enjoy it until winter without doing much. Then I'll start tinkering.

He has a signed note from Chuck Beck that this was the last car he made before selling the Gen 1 tooling. I thought that was pretty cool.

"Or even a pad under my heal and I'll drive barefoot on that foot."

We have a good friend ( @Carlos G) on this forum that does that, I believe.

I have a 904GTS client with size 15 feet and we're in the process of creating a mini dropped floor section in front of the pedals for this very reason.  First time  we've ever done something like this and I don't know why I didn't think of it for your spyder issues, although it sounded like if the under tank bulge was gone it would be rectified...

@chines1 posted:

I have a 904GTS client with size 15 feet and we're in the process of creating a mini dropped floor section in front of the pedals for this very reason.  First time  we've ever done something like this and I don't know why I didn't think of it for your spyder issues, although it sounded like if the under tank bulge was gone it would be rectified...

I actually had the drop section idea while I was driving it. It's the same thing we're doing on the seat pans for my Speedster project. Paint roller trays, someone else on here called them.

@chines1 posted:

I have a 904GTS client with size 15 feet and we're in the process of creating a mini dropped floor section in front of the pedals for this very reason.  First time  we've ever done something like this and I don't know why I didn't think of it for your spyder issues, although it sounded like if the under tank bulge was gone it would be rectified...

Like the second iteration of the s1 E-type, although perversely, the flat floor s1 is pretty sought after

The shifter is among the first things I'd want to sort out. I believe it has a Jamar shifter with crazy heim joint action back at the nose cone. I can get into all the gears but it's super sloppy. Does anyone have a lead on an adjustment procedure?

I also see a lot of you are happy with the cable shifters. First quesion is: Can they be installed on a Gen 1 Beck? I've got a shift-rod tunnel of some kind which also has an e-brake mounted on it, back between the seats. I would love to go with the trick Spyder-esque e-brake along with the cable shifter. 2nd question is, is everybody happy with the cable shifter or would the Jamal feel tighter/more direct after it's adjusted properly?

If you can get all the gears, it's not a matter of adjusting it.

There are a few areas of wear.

There are two or three U-joints in there on the rod linkage. They basically look like socket/ratchet/extension swivel joints. I literally tightened the worn joints by hammering them in a vice to pinch the worn pivot holes. I then cleaned them and filled them with grease. Then I used a section of bicycle inner tube and a couple ty-raps to boot them. They were worn and sloppy at 10K miles.

In my car there is a heim joint between the seats. There was no wear there. There is also a short steel tube under the transmission crossmember that can wear.

The shifter itself on mine had some room for the bearing to slide up and down some. I made a spacer to take it up under the snap ring.

I ran that linkage for another 25K without a problem after that.

I was very happy with my Jamar linkage. But I went with the cable shifter on my new car. It works VERY well.

I believe you can put a cable shifter into your car. You can also put in a Spyder e-brake. It will require some fabrication.

Many have retro-fit the new cable shifter, but it is not easy nor cheap to do.  It Can be done with the trans in the car, but we do them prior to trans install as it requires removal of th nosecone and, in many cases, trimming of the R slider.  It can incorporate the original handbrake as part of its bracketry also.  I'm guessing that Danny is part of a small minority that liked the Jamar.  It is the first thing we change in old cars.  I am not a fan at all...

I love the red interior and the style of the seats.  They actually look comfortable.  Agree, not sure why blue darts but easily fixed by light sanding (if paint) and repainting red. Let the customization/individualization "Madne$$" begin!

@chines1 posted:

Many have retro-fit the new cable shifter, but it is not easy nor cheap to do.  It Can be done with the trans in the car, but we do them prior to trans install as it requires removal of th nosecone and, in many cases, trimming of the R slider.  It can incorporate the original handbrake as part of its bracketry also.  I'm guessing that Danny is part of a small minority that liked the Jamar.  It is the first thing we change in old cars.  I am not a fan at all...

Mine worked very well. What can I say?

You should see the garbage linkage we have in the Formula Vees. If you did, you'd like the Jamar too.

The problem with my Jamar was two fold: either through wear or bad installation the bit that clamps onto the nose cone was never tight enough, so as it rotated the shift pattern would change a little bit with every shift. From an upright H w/dogleg reverse to an exaggerated italic H with reverse impossible to select. After I bought it, Carey adjusted it and I almost made it home to New York (did the last 15 miles in third gear after the pin in the shift rod sheared, replaced with a miniature screwdriver!)

The second issue in my homebuilt Gen 1 Spyder was, like the frunk hinge, the shift rod extension looked like “My First Welding Project.” The epitome of the joke: Santa Claus, “I’ve seen your welds and you’re getting a grinder for Christmas.” I don’t know if some resulting mis-alignment aggregated the issue or not  

After Carey installed a cable shifter and hydraulic clutch on my trip home to Utah, I haven’t had a single issue.

@DannyP posted:

Mine worked very well. What can I say?

You should see the garbage linkage we have in the Formula Vees. If you did, you'd like the Jamar too.

I probably could have made mine work by shimming the tail piece and getting a proper shift rod made by Jamar. AFAIK, they come in two pieces because there’s no set length for them. (Jamar is a dune buggy supplier, after all) They make nice stuff. You could easily build a $50K Sandrail using their stuff. Their disk brake kits are $3500 fer crissakes.

I guess it all boils down to the old adage: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” I’m sure they’ve sold thousands, if not tens of thousands, of those shifters.

It was easier for me to convert it to a cable shifter.

@Adrian Tayne posted:

Hi Bruce I just took the pictures yesterday. The trouble with the darts too is they're blue when the interior is red. He was going to redo the interior. I would have maybe left it but now the colors look wrong.

Easier to change (or eliminate) the darts than the interior.

One issue I just noticed: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen red fuel line. IME red hose is high temp water ie radiator hose or air.

"The epitome of the joke: Santa Claus, “I’ve seen your welds and you’re getting a grinder for Christmas."

That's not a joke.  My son, who is a much better electric welder than me, once gave me an angle grinder for Christmas....   🙄

My saving grace is that I'm a better gas welder than most.

@dlearl476 posted:

One issue I just noticed: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen red fuel line. IME red hose is high temp water ie radiator hose or air.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. We did notice that the "fuel lines" had some cracks so THAT will be the first, 2nd, and 3rd thing I fix before anything else. Even before the skinny blue darts.

@DannyP

Thanks for the help on where to check for slop. I'll probably see how much I can tighten everything up before I give up on it completely, and do the cable shifter retrofit. That sounds like a good winter project.

@Adrian Tayne posted:

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. We did notice that the "fuel lines" had some cracks so THAT will be the first, 2nd, and 3rd thing I fix before anything else. Even before the skinny blue darts.

Belmetric is the cheapest place I’ve seen to get proper metric cloth-braided fuel line.

https://belmetric.com/cohline-...cloth-braided-hose/?

Pro Tip: When I did all the lines on my Spyder, I got a can of Plasti-Dip, plugged the lines so none got inside, and dipped the end to keep them from fraying. Made them look rather finished as well.  Looked so good I wished I’d used a color other than black.

Nice idea!

I used a short section of colored heat shrink on the cloth when I used that stuff.

Thanks everybody for the help. I did buy the car and brought it home and am just kind of tinkering with it right now getting to know it better. Took it for a drive to go get some new fuel line. It's a ton of fun and almost gets as many waves and thumbs up as the VW single cab.

Congrats and Welcome to the Madness Adrian!

Welcome, Adrian!

And, get used to the waves and attention.  My Spyder gets more attention -- by FAR -- than any other vintage vehicle I've ever owned.  Conversations at stoplights, and even people pacing me on the interstate as they videotape with their phones.  It's a hoot! 

@Wulfrik (John) posted:

Welcome, Adrian!

And, get used to the waves and attention.  My Spyder gets more attention -- by FAR -- than any other vintage vehicle I've ever owned.  Conversations at stoplights, and even people pacing me on the interstate as they videotape with their phones.  It's a hoot!

Enjoy Adrian, but watch out for the fools on the interstate with their phones. They have a tendency to weave right into you while filming. I'm had a lot of close calls ........

550 Spyder, parked (typical):

@Wulfrik (John) posted:

Welcome, Adrian!

And, get used to the waves and attention.  My Spyder gets more attention -- by FAR -- than any other vintage vehicle I've ever owned.  Conversations at stoplights, and even people pacing me on the interstate as they videotape with their phones.  It's a hoot!

@Butcher Boy posted:

Enjoy Adrian, but watch out for the fools on the interstate with their phones. They have a tendency to weave right into you while filming. I'm had a lot of close calls ........

Yup, got to watch out for the "lookie-loos". They completely forget that they are driving a 2-ton killing machine, and you're not.

@Adrian Tayne posted:

Thanks everybody for the help. I did buy the car and brought it home and am just kind of tinkering with it right now getting to know it better. Took it for a drive to go get some new fuel line. It's a ton of fun and almost gets as many waves and thumbs up as the VW single cab.

Congrats Adrian, you’re gonna love it. Couple of seeds to plant: Not really a fan of chrome 4 bolt wheels. Like I posted above, VMC carries 4.5-5.5X15 Vintage 190s that looks just like 19 Slot Wide 5s. (With hubcaps) Danny says the offset is a little different in the 4.5 so they may rub on a Spyder.

Alternate plan: I really like these. I think one of the very few non-Wide 5 wheels that look good on a Spyder. They only come in 5.5, though.  I had a crazy idea of finding a place that does such things and researching it they could cut an inch out of a 5.5 to make the proper offset for a front Spyder wheel.

Here’s what the 4 bolt version looks like.

btw: if you didn’t catch it on another thread, one of the things were good at is spending other people's money.

Enjoy that motor. It’s a beauty.