Interesting observations

What becomes of the antique autos of the 30's - 20's etc.... once their now aging owners are gone?

Most of the younger set have little or no interest in these autos and we may very well see their values decrease to all time lows.

What becomes of the street rods as their owners also are of our age.

Head out to a car show or cruise night and you'll see most of their owners now well into their late 50's and 60's

When is the last time you actually saw the neighborhood kid wrenching a "Duece Coupe" ?

Ask a kid that question, you'll surely get a unique blank stare a "HUH?" and they'll think you are from Mars!

Rice Rockets and Tuners are and will become the trend, kinda a disturbing thought !

Yes, Alan. I have shared these same thoughts with some of my car club buddies. I'm not certain what it means except some really neat rides may be available at bargain basement prices in the future. I hope that some of us guys aren't too old to reap the benefits.

My thoughts as well. This is why no matter what my current ride is I let the kids get in and sit down at the shows. Most of us can remember that special car or two that we got to interact with.

If this generation doesn't get a chance to interact, then they will never get the spark.

Recalling our custom backyard engineered scooters go carts and mini bikes,much trial and heavy in the error department but WE did our own work with little or no help. Attending the school of Hard Knocks bruises, cuts and a trophy stitch or two was quite the pricless education. Two halves of my sister's steel roller skate, a 2x4 and a soap box and we were making lightning speed!
Ask a kid today what a 16D nail is, you'll get a blank stare.....
ask a kid of of the 50's and 60's that same question and they'll respond with, "Hey Mister, three of those pounded together into a 2x4 and you got an axle!"

I think what has happened in the Model T and A world points the way to the future of the ACVW. From my understanding, in the '50's the old Fords were so common, that modifying them was an inexpensive way to learn about auto mechanics, and how to make something fast out of something cheap. 10 years later, everybody had a Beetle- they were cheap and easy to improve. By the time I was a teenager, the small block Chevy was everywhere, and the Model T and flat head Ford stuff had faded into the background.

However- parts and services are still available for a model T. My 43 year old buddy restores them. You want poured bearings? Some guy out there will do it. Parts are available, but there is only a few places that have them. Service? You're on your own there.

Gordon talked about a day when there were dozens of great VW shops in lower New England- now 4. In Peoria, that number is 1 (sort of)- and they charge something like $80/ hr, and work on all makes of German cars.

The outdated idea that this ACVW stuff is or should be cheap, is old school thinking. This is outmoded technology- long ago replaced by something "better" by almost every functional measure. That is the appeal to me- learning and knowing a lot about something as arcane as the ACVW helps me to escape some of the mundane relaties of daily living. Caring about something nobody else notices is what seperates people who love the hobby from people in it to impress other guys, or make a little money.

So, to the point- what happens when everybody who cares about plastic toy cars dies? I'm not sure it matters, because I'll not be around any more. This isn't a legacy I'm leaving my children, it's something I do becuase I enjoy it. They will enjoy other things- that is OK by me, because I don't need them to have my hobbies to validate my own choices.

What matters to me is whether they follow after me in the conduct of their lives, in ways that matter. I couldn't care less what they drive, or whether or not they car read a spark plug. I care deeply that they are honest, caring, generous men and women of faith- the faith of my father, and his father before him.

I feel the same way but I also want them to be rich, thin and have small lap dogs that look like rats.
Only kidding but I think alot of people feel the same way. Kids
(mine include) miss out on adventure. The kind of simple adventure that comes from walking to and from school, using your own imagination to build/make a comtraption/game to occupy your spare time
instead of video games. etc...
Not that I'm that much younger than most but I have kids from
6-14 yrs old. Imagine my surprise (Ron don't pounce just sharing
an experience) when my sons 4th grade teacher (and a classroom
full of parents) thought that spell ck and grammar ck should be used to do their homework. I thought "what's getting graded here?"
computer usage? Other parents replied "well spell ck is a tool
and they need to learn to use tools" I couldn't believe it. The same
parents are still doing their kids homework.
Some of the best + most memorable times of my life and with
my children have come from nothing. And I have never seen them prouder than moments when they have realized they "did it themselves".
I am a jack of all trades master of some. I've built a couple of
houses, started/run a couple of companies and raised numerous old
cars from the dead. My wife said to me the other day "you have the biggest X#%^#$'s in the world, what makes you think you can do that"
I replied no one said I couldn't, I'm too dumb to know my own
limitations.
Sorry to go so far off subject but I feel Alan is right and the ramifications are ugly. Not just auto related but across the board.

Too many negative thoughts on this issue I think. I have belonged to the Studebaker Drivers Club since 1978 and the membership has grown about 10% since then. Now this is a car that hasn't been produced since 1966 and yet there are about 13,000 people world wide that re-up year after year. Part of it is that it is THE place to go for a great monthly magazine and local chapters in every state of the Union. In Illinois there were about 5 chapters, covering differant areas of the state. Of course many of the older members are dying off, faster and faster it seems. New people step in the carry the banner for the club. They are the lifeblood of the club. They have yearly conventions, zone meets, chapter functions, etc, etc. Parts seem to be no problem finding and the Studebaker parts are cheaper by far than parts like Chevy or Buick parts. The reason why so many parts are available is another fascinating story for another time. In any case, I think it is too early for the prophets of doom to editorialize about our hobby, it shall endure.

Gotta go with Bruce W. on this. I mean there, might be some attrition at the local cruise night level, and, admittedly, those guys are RAPIDLY aging. (their wives go with them now to drive the car's home again . . . night blindness always hits males earlier . . .) But on a national level, the builders are busier than ever, SEMA is healthier each year and there's a nice diverse group of cars to become interested in. Factory hot rods/nostalgia re-issues right through to Rat Rods. If the imports provide a better power plant or platform for a rebody or fiberglass/traditional rod, use one as the basis. I've been on the look out for a 3500 M chassis TVR for a few years now, only because I want to mount it on a WRX platform.

Folks usually like the car that they couldn't have in high school., and the cycle spirals upwards through the year's. (I'm lucky, my parents bought me a 62 409 four speed convertible in High School so I got it out of my system early on) Right now nobody wants a model "T", or a stock "A", but when enough of them become available at a decent price again, maybe someone will. A cut down "T" Speedster with carbon fiber "wooden look" spoke wheels, Honda engine, Kirkey race seat disguised with a wicker surround and such would make an awesome car. Keep it along the lines of the early Morgans and it's even better. Wrap the whole thing in Henry's original steel and . . . who knows.

Just my opinion, obviously, but I like the automotive hobby, my Dad likes fighter planes and antique (brass era) race cars. Collect/build/drive anything at all as long as it's fast and fun. I could go for an alchohol/bio fuel bike next as long as it'll scare me.

JMHO

TC

tc you mean 2500m, i had two. great cars! the 3000 was a convertible,
v6 ford v6 power.

Alan, love the Rice Rockets moniker...a friend of mine calls them Rice Burners.....

OK, a "Rice Rocket" is a motorcycle. A "Rice Burner" is a car. Just to be P.C.

The real answer is; "Why should they work on one of those under-powered, poor handling, hot, noisy, smelly, non-air conditioned, gas guzzling "Street Rods", when they can run a 4WD Mitsubishi or WRX Turbo running over 450 HP (to the WHEELS!) that handles damn close to a FIAA car, can EASILY out-run a Cobra, Corvette C5 or Viper both at the drags and on road courses (I've personally seen Eclipses do this on a regular basis - and the EVO's are coming on strong) and are absolutely a joy to drive around town - tame as hell until you get your foot in it. AND, they get way better than respectable mileage - 20's and up!

I've driven Deuces......NONE of them handled worth a damn, and they were REALLY scary over 80 mph (especially when you could look down and see the road going by).

I've watched my son and his friends working on their "Rice Burners"......Eclipse, WRX, Toyotas, of all types......some of these guys can pull in to the garage Friday night, do an engine pull and a tear-down, install lots of mods and rebuild, and have it ready to go to work on Monday morning, then drive it to the Drags at Epping (N.H.) on Wednesday night and repeatedly dust off Corvettes, Mustangs and Vipers and then DRIVE IT HOME! I used to tag along with my brother's friends who went to the Epping drags in the '60's. One of them had a '62 409 and he did well there in his class, but you could never drive it to/from the track with the drag gearing he had in it.......4400 rpm at turnpike speed for two hours+?? Don't be ridiculous!! We had to TOW it there and back!

When I was a kid (50's and 60's) I loved VW's because they were (are) easy to work on and they were CHEAP. I built 8 dune buggies and never paid more than 50 bucks for any of the donor cars (with engines!). Building up a stout 1915 with a single Holley 450 cost about $750. When I built Pearl, I paid $350 for the donor and thought that was cheap, even though I threw out or gave most of it away, and I think I've got $5K into my engine. When I started on my '46 Ford coupe (1970), I bought the donor for $125, with a .230-over 59A/B flathead engine already set up with lots of race-goodies. Doubt that you could touch one for less than a Grand or two these days, just for the engine (I sold just the engine in 1982 for $750).

So what am I saying???? THIS generation of "Street Rodders" is doing the same thing we were back in the '60's and '70's; finding cheap iron that is strong and easily built into massive, reliable horsepower, BUT, they're putting that power into a chassis that handles like the hammers of hell. Most of you have never driven a turbo'd, 450+ hp 4WD Eclipse. I have - Chris' "Eclipsecicle". Believe me, around town it is the most well-mannered car you've ever seen. That same car, out at the drags, eats C5 Corvettes by several lengths turning mid-low elevens, and on a road course, they wouldn't stand a chance. I've NEVER driven a so-called "Street Rod" with that kind of power, ever.

A well built, 450+hp Eclipse, EVO or WRX can be built for way under $30K BRAND NEW, AND be driven to work and to the store. Starting with a used one would more than cut the cost in half.

A well built 32 Deuce around here, built at home, will probably cost you upwards of $40K unless you've got very generous friends (and they're out there). You could never easily drive it to work or the store and forget about having a passenger and then adding groceries or a cooler.

Why would young kids today want to build a Deuce??????? Obviously, they don't. The guys who will be buying them (already built by someone else) are the Baby Boomers who already have more money than they'll be able to spend in several lifetimes, and they're about to inherit MORE from their money-saving parents when they die.

gn - signing off, from a "Crusty Old Coot Rant"

Gord; my cousin has one of those new Mitsubishi EVO's and it's the fastest here in the island. He can drive the kids to school and at the same time do in the 11's at the drag strip. His is all tricked out with high tech computer stuff, nitrous oxide, etc. etc. but he's put close to 65K into it including the price of the car. He even flies down some Asian techs from the mainland to tweak it occasionally.

If the last Barret-Jackson Auction is an indicator, the old cars of the 20's and 30's are in trouble. Lincoln and Cadillac town car prices suprisingly down as were others. I'm sure there was many a tear shed as the hammer fell. I(and the commentators) couldn't believe what some of the old classics were going for. That generation is going by the wayside as the babyboomers are going after the musclecars.

BD

Following is my opinion, explanation to A. Marklins initial question in this thread. I believe there is a sociological and cultural similarity between cars and music. Each generation has its own style music. Sure there are exceptions but music is generally NOT transgenerational. Music has its greatest and life lasting impact on each generation starting in the early teens through ones mid 20's. It evokes emotion, feelings, enjoyment etc...then the beat continues with the next generation. As each generation ages IT'S music STILL has collective as well as individual meaning and memories for every member of it's generation. It becomes more subordinate to each subsequent generation.

I think a parallel observation about cars applies. The Depression born generation cruised, raced, wrenched, washed, waxed, necked etc...in the ole 20's 30's Chevys & Fords etc The WWII generation generation took advantage of the Mercs, Fords, etc of the late 40's and 50's. Baby Boomers fondly remember and highly prize the muscle cars of the mid 50's and 60's Vettes, GTO's, 442's, Super Stock Dodges and what was at the time in some areas TABOO! the IMPORT! Beetles, Healeys, Triumphs, Porsche 356 Speedsters, 550 Spyders.
For the Generation X'ers it's crouch rockets...Yamaha's, Suzuki's and rice rockets...Honda's, Toyota's and Mazda's etc...

So as each generation ages it's music AND cars become increasingly more vintage and less popular among each younger generation. Times, Issues, Life Styles, and People(WE)change, and so do our preferences.

Oooopppsss ! ! ! Yup, I meant the 2500 M chassis.

I had a Tasmin 280i for a short while, but the windshield rake was always a problem. Maybe it's my astigmatism or just the optics of the windshield in general, but driving it made me car sick. It sold for a song. But that little German Ford V6 was neat. Like a 289 that never grew up. I always figured that I could shorten a set of aluminum/ribbed "Cobra" covers for it, but never got to 'em. The V4 in the little Saab Sonet looked like an even younger brother . . .

It's funny, but at the Wood Works meet for TVR's, you always see a nice selection of Sonnets as well. Sort of related I suppose.

I found a nice complete and rough 2500 M on Ebay, that I'd been after for almost eight years, By the time the owner(s) agreed to sell it it was in very bad shape and the title/papers/etc were lost.

Too bad . . .

TC

And then there's the universal timeless appeal of the 356 , and it's owner . . . Loved by women and babies, envied and feared by other men, chased by dogs everywhere . . .

I am a little bit different, but maybe kidding myself. My plan is to leave two cars when I die and have my two children want them and drive them. Of course the one I'm getting now will need a nice refurb by the time I die (hopefully), but I'm hoping they will remember all the fun we had driving it around and how much I loved the car and love it just as much for that reason. Now after they die, I'm sure they will be on ebay and some butthole like me will be saying that car is old and isn't worth that much, but it will be a lifetime of memories sitting there for me.

I will haunt any owner who isn't a decendant of mine.

Steven- It's just a car.....

Yeah, and he doesn't even HAVE it yet! ;>)

But man, he's gonna love it, gar-un-teed, as Justin Wilson would have said it.

Bruce, when one of my students asks me how to spell a word I always respond,"d-i-c-t-i-o-n-a-r-y." The quick ones catch on right away, but the slower ones write down half of the word dictionary before they catch on, and the odd one won't even catch on!
Some of the 'old' teaching methods I still adhere to:
handwriting is compulsory-printing is for primary children
use a pencil for math...for everything else use a pen
no calculators for math....instead, use the calculator between your ears.
math drills & spelling drills are good for you
And forget this whole language/reading crap....Dick & Jane works..phonics works.

Please excuse this 'teacher' rant....I'll be better in two weeks.

i,m with you. progress is killing us.

Stan this isn't just a car!!!!! LOL, ok maybe it is just a car, but it isn't as much of "just a car" as my Mazda Protege', Honda Civic, or Ford Escort station wagon.

I'm that way with a lot of things besides my car though. We had a dining room table built special just for us, don't even ask what it cost me, it wasn't good. But it has a little gold label on it saying when it was built and for who. I hope 100 years from now it is still in the family, of course someones kids at that point will say "who in the heck were they?"

OK, Bruce why are those parts so available and cheap. Now is as good as anytime to explain it?