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Intermeccanica...

MusbJimMusbJim'14 VS SoCal Supporting Member

A Guamanian walks into a shoe store (not that Guamanians often wear shoes, but when you're de-flowering the female virgin demographic of an entire island you need something more than flip-flops).

 

The shoe store is stocked with every kind of shoe imaginable from inexpensive casual sneakers to crazy-money designer footwear. The Guamanian could probably afford most any shoe in the store. A helpful store clerk asks the Guamanian "How can I help you find the perfect shoe"?

 

The Guamanian in all his 'Guamness' replies, "I'm not sure what I'm looking for, but I'll know it when I see it"!

 

I'm just saying...

Rusty SRusty S

I forgot to mention... My car is a replica of a 58/59 Roadster not Speedster. It is a much different look, a touring car. The Speedster has a much sportier look than my car. I could modify my car to look like a Speedster by changing out the windshield and top I suppose. I would also have to change out the seats.

 

I'll say it guys... I covet your Speedsters. The 10 commandments did not mention Speedsters so I'm okay. I love the look. I sacrificed that look for a little more functionality. I love the "Speedster" script along the front fenders. I even have a Speedsters screensaver... Damn.

speedybspeedyb
Originally Posted by Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Tremont, IL:
Originally Posted by speedyb:
Stan, archives shown you've owned different manufacturers, care to chat offline to elaborate on your experiences?

Sure. Everybody is entitled to my opinion . You can contact me any time and get my opinions, but they're just that-- my opinions. They're based on my experiences and expectations-- but everybody is going to have different experiences and expectations.

 

Look-- I was you once (a very long time ago), and I asked a lot of the same unanswerable questions. This hobby is a rabbit-hole: you step in and start tumbling down. It's easy to look at an $85k IM on the front end and think, "there's no way I'd ever spend that on a plastic Shriner car"... until you buy something and start "improving" it. Long term owners total up their invoices exactly one time (during a "discussion" with their wives about money)-- then carefully put them all back in the file folder and never tally them up again. At just about that point, an $85k, complete, perfect, tube-framed car that's as gorgeous in places you cannot see as it is on top starts to make some pretty good sense

 

... or maybe not at all. At the end of the day, under the cold fluorescent light of truth, a $50k- $100k on a replica makes no sense whatsoever. You can buy a lot of automotive love for 1/2 the money--and you should, assuming it scratches your itch. But some of us have a full on rash, and nothing but a speedster is going to soothe it. I care not that I can buy a complete, beautiful, rust-free MGB with a Ford 289 and a Tremec 5 sp for about $15k on eBay right now (well, maybe I do just a little). I want this car, in air-cooled configuration, with no compromises. I'm the dry-sump, twin-plug idiot who keeps pulling his engine and transaxle and going all Dr. Frankenstein every winter. Every. Single. Winter. Plug that in your value equation and smoke it. I'm smoking something, most people would say.

 

The thing is, everybody's personal value equation is going to land them on an individual square. You keep hearing the same stuff over and over-- not because we're a bunch of hard-heads (OK, maybe partly because we're a bunch of hard-heads), but more because this thing is so personal and so subjective, that it's a bit like asking who's wife is better. I'm pretty sure both my wife and my car are the best, but someone may have a difference of opinion on either (they'd be wrong, but whatever).

 

Jim Ignacio always says, "There's a reason Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors". It's true. Don't be a dope like me and buy one or two sight unseen. At a minimum, call the builders. A better idea is to visit the shops. They're all in places you might want to visit anyhow. You own a business-- take a few trips and write them off. I think you'd see pretty quickly what the difference is.

Thanks Stan, will take you up on that.

I'll add that a consensus approach to this thread where subjective < objective would probably be of the utmost.

speedybspeedyb
Originally Posted by Marty Grzynkowicz-2012 IM Suby-Roadster:

SpeedyB.  Being a mechanic your going to have a hard time spending big money on any new build.  The guys that work on my car have a shop just like yours and they love my car.  But, at the same time they think that I am nuts.  They want what I have but just will never spend the money on something like it.  Read Stan's post a few times.

 

A guy with skills may want to consider a used IM or Beck and than tweak it to make it his own.  

I actually am not a mechanic myself - cars hate me for some reason. I do employ some good ones, however, and one does have some air cooled experience so I have that advantage.

My thoughts on price difference between IM and [others] are not just based on mechanical ability or availability to resources at cost. However, my inability to reason with why a Raby type-4 is $20,000 seems very far reaching....

speedybspeedyb
Originally Posted by Fear the Yorkie! Phil IM356D:

SpeedyB

I think that superior fit and finish is an issue.  Some other builders will do A/C and nice stereos.  Others also do water cooled engines.  Probably no other manufacturer offers the extent of options and upgrades.

All IMs are space frames.  Beck also builds all space frames.

Think that IM also offers the best all weather car.  All Speedys have power windows.  All cars can be had with hard tops.  The cloth top on my Conv D is weather tight, padded and lined.  If you want to drive your car in all weather situations the IM is your best bet.

Suspension is a big issue.  Almost all manufacturers use front vw torsion bars.  Most use rear swing axle.  Most IMs have front 914 suspension.  All IMs come with rear IRS.  If you want to get crazy you can do the entire car in 911 power and suspension.

In your original post you have a link to a USED IM.  Hmm.  Definitely the best bang for your buck if you can live with another person's preferences.  I bought used.  No where near the car I would order for myself.  But after a while and a bit more cash you can make the car your own.

I have dabbled in the kit car madness since 1999.  2 vintage spyders and an IM.  That being said if I ever get another spyder it will be a Beck.  Go figure.  There are a bunch of reputable companies.  Do the research, meet with the builders and find what is right for you.

Value added here Phil, well done and thank you!

speedybspeedyb
Originally Posted by Rusty Smith - 2002 IM - Southern, CA.:
Originally Posted by Rusty Smith - 2002 IM - Southern, CA.:

Well I would say that Intermeccanica ownership is more about the owner who appreciates the ultra fine craftsmanship that is only found in these cars. I for one have been frequently asked at stops if I had any Grey Poupon. One may look at the other brands but it is, and I say this without hesitation, the Intermeccanica that one drowns in thought and yearns for. Once purchased an immediate overwhelming distaste for all other brands ensues leaving one entirely satisfied with their choice in vintage replica automobile.

 

 

Hey I was just trying to stir the pot fellas. I like all of your cars.

 

@speedyb - By reading here you will find there is lots of confusing subject matter. I bought my IM based on two things. 1) I wanted a car that I could drive rain or shine - the IM has a taller, more functional top and rollup windows. It's not weather tight by any stretch though. 2) I wanted a tube chassis. Is a tube chassis better than a pan? I don't really know but I got it in my head that I wanted the tube chassis.

 

Some unexpected things came along with my purchase - a roomier engine bay and foot wells. Warped deck lid and trunk lid(This seems to be common with these cars but nobody wants to mention it for fear it will bring the resale value down). I have to say that I have never seen a Vintage, JPS, or Beck with warped body parts but I have seen this on IMs and CMCs and often.

 

My car has what most of the other brands have - 4 lug VW suspension. The paint and finish is pretty doggone good. Something that I have noticed is the different quality levels in aftermarket parts, ie, things like chromed mirrors, tail lights, license plate lights, horn grills, etc, etc. Look for and pay the extra money for the high quality repro parts as this is what makes or breaks your car close up.

 

Engine and transaxle combos - Spend some time researching here. Smaller displacement engines are fine with stock transaxles but 2 liters and above, IMO should have longer gears.

 

My 2 cents.

Much appreciated Rusty, thank you!

Sacto MitchSacto Mitch2013 VS Supporting Member

 

Speedyb, you can see there's no shortage of opinions on this topic.

 

My take is that a decent Speedster takes about six months to build.

 

IM puts six months into the build, you pay them for their time, and they hand over your car.

 

Vintage puts a month into the build, you pay them for their time, they hand over your car, and you spend the next five months finishing the job. Even if you end up having to replace the whole engine and tranny, you're still about $30K ahead of the guy who bought an IM. If you want the same level of handling, paint, finish, upholstery, carpeting, and trim as the IM, you'll probably end up spending most of that $30K.

 

But many of us are content with something between what VS delivers and IM delivers. We buy the cheaper cars and start spending time and money until we're happy.

 

Most of us are completely nuts, though. We keep spending time and money on whatever car we buy, and are still never completely happy. This is why most Speedster outings end up someplace where alcohol is available for purchase.

 

 

 

 

Last edited by Sacto Mitch
speedybspeedyb
Originally Posted by Sacto Mitch . . . . 2013 VS:

 

Speedyb, you can see there's no shortage of opinions on this topic.

 

My take is that a decent Speedster takes about six months to build.

 

IM puts six months into the build, you pay them for their time, and they hand over your car.

 

 

Most of us are completely nuts, though. We keep spending time and money on whatever car we buy, and are never completely happy. This is why most Speedster outings end up someplace where alcohol is available for purchase.

 

 

Lol, yeah a little whiskey really dulls the pain of spending $100/hp on a motor

 

I would love to go to CA or Carlisle but Denver is in sort of an obscure location and not having a worthy car to drive out there doesn't add to the appeal. Will probably just resort to connecting with a couple locals who have been kind about meeting up and I may pay a visit to Duke's Garage, our local Beck dealer.

Rich DrewekRich Drewek Supporting Member

Speedy, not so fast on poo-pooing a gathering. I'll bet that if you can land somewhere near one of the gatherings, some one might be able to pick you up.

These people are all very giving. I was coaxed out to Carlisle 5 years ago

not knowing what to expect. I was welcomed with open arms. i never did get my Speedster out and this year I'll be coming in my new Japanese super car so everyone can sneer and laugh at me...I'll still have a great time...it's about the people, the cars are eye and ear candy.

speedybspeedyb
Originally Posted by Rich Drewek:

Speedy, not so fast on poo-pooing a gathering. I'll bet that if you can land somewhere near one of the gatherings, some one might be able to pick you up.

These people are all very giving. I was coaxed out to Carlisle 5 years ago

not knowing what to expect. I was welcomed with open arms. i never did get my Speedster out and this year I'll be coming in my new Japanese super car so everyone can sneer and laugh at me...I'll still have a great time...it's about the people, the cars are eye and ear candy.

The event calendar is not showing any data for me. Where can I find details?

Rich DrewekRich Drewek Supporting Member

There should be plenty of posts about Carlisle within the "Events Section" right here.

 

Or, find the official Carlisle Events stuff here... May 15-18, we start the 14th.

 

http://www.carlisleevents.com/...-events/default.aspx

 

Seriously, unless you don't like fun, conversation, food, liquids, etc. you should try at least one, after that you won't want to miss them. Putting faces and personalities to all these screen names is a great introduction to this group.

Stan GalatStan Galat
Originally Posted by speedyb:
Lol, yeah a little whiskey really dulls the pain of spending $100/hp on a motor

Really, the pain is dulled less than you'd think.

 

 

Actually, you can get 200 hp for about $8-9k or so (sooooo affordable, I know). 200 usable hp (you know, the kind that doesn't take 8000 RPM to make)... well, there's the rub...

 

That's where the Dr. Strangelove aspect of the "Stan-Plan" comes into play. Chinese nicasil? Sure I'll try that. Dry sump? But of course. Twin plug? It's only money.

 

With an AC flat 4, there's no free lunch. You might not always get what you pay for, but you'll ALWAYS pay for what you get.

Last edited by Stan Galat
speedybspeedyb
Originally Posted by Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Tremont, IL:
Originally Posted by speedyb:
Lol, yeah a little whiskey really dulls the pain of spending $100/hp on a motor

Really, the pain is dulled less than you'd think.

 

 

Actually, you can get 200 hp for about $8-9k or so (sooooo affordable, I know). 200 usable hp (you know, the kind that doesn't take 8000 RPM to make)... well, there's the rub...

 

That's where the Dr. Strangelove aspect of the "Stan-Plan" comes into play. Chinese nicasil? Sure I'll try that. Dry sump? But of course. Twin plug? It's only money.

 

With an AC flat 4, there's no free lunch. You might not always get what you pay for, but you'll ALWAYS pay for what you get.

Actually Chinese parts aren't really all that bad if you get the cheap overnight delivery from random ladies named Katesppeed who flood your inbox at 4am.

Maybe one day I'll get it, or better yet I'll just retire and serve Raby fruity umbrella drinks at his beach side cabana in Fiji. Then he'll build me uber engines for the price of a Polynesian chicken farm.

 

speedybspeedyb
Originally Posted by Rich Drewek:

There should be plenty of posts about Carlisle within the "Events Section" right here.

 

Or, find the official Carlisle Events stuff here... May 15-18, we start the 14th.

 

http://www.carlisleevents.com/...-events/default.aspx

 

Seriously, unless you don't like fun, conversation, food, liquids, etc. you should try at least one, after that you won't want to miss them. Putting faces and personalities to all these screen names is a great introduction to this group.

I don't know about fun, but food and liquids I can deal with.

Found the event page thanks Rich. Going to have a newborn in the home as of March 20th and a potential acquisition closing in June so let me see if I can squeeze it in.

Jack CrosbyJack CrosbyHot Springs, AR, VS RabyTypeIV

Speedy---maybe you can hook up with me and Alice as we head accross the continent on I 40 in our mighty Raby Type IV/ tricked out and totally sorted VS. It's a replica of a 356 Speedster with an authentic but improved  pan and traditional air cooled power---more like a "real" one than most---  Just meet us down on I 40 and we can caravan to the West Coast event together.

 

We are looking for some brave souls to caravan over with us but if there are no takers  we are fine solo.  Might even leave right after the Carlise event ---still planning.

 

We did the event 4 years ago and there are no better folks anywhere than the Speedster knuckleheads living out on the left coast!  Gotta make the trip one more time!  Waddya say?

speedybspeedyb
Originally Posted by Jack Crosby, Hot Sp'gs,AR,VS RabyTypeIV:

Speedy---maybe you can hook up with me and Alice as we head accross the continent on I 40 in our mighty Raby Type IV/ tricked out and totally sorted VS. It's a replica of a 356 Speedster with an authentic but improved  pan and traditional air cooled power---more like a "real" one than most---  Just meet us down on I 40 and we can caravan to the West Coast event together.

 

We are looking for some brave souls to caravan over with us but if there are no takers  we are fine solo.    Waddya say?

 

Hey Jack, very kind on the invite. Is Alice your...... car? Otherwise being a third wheel is, well you know, maybe less than ideal

 

Where about will you be coming from?

Lane AndersonLane AndersonMt. Pleasant, SC Supporting Member

Alice is his better (and much prettier) half.  I think he's suggesting that you drive to meet up with him on the way to Carlisle.  It might be simpler to fly into Harrisburg, PA, and have someone pick you up or get a rental car there.  Either way, it's a LOT of fun and you will have much more high quality intel with which to make a purchase decision.

 

EDIT: Jack lives in Hot Springs, AR.

Last edited by Lane Anderson
Jack CrosbyJack CrosbyHot Springs, AR, VS RabyTypeIV

Hi Speedy---unlike others I name my lawn mower (it's Fred) but I don't name my Speedster!  Alice is my wife and traveling companion and we are hankering for a repeat of the best cross country runs (in a car) we ever did and I was talking about meeting you for the West Coast event---Not Carlisle.  Although we will be doing both events.  I believe that there is a week between Carlisle and the West Coast event.

 

We will be coming accross I-40 ----you could take I-25 from Denver down to Alberquerque and meet us there.

 

We'll make the same stops as last time and I know the best motels and restaurants so it will be Hot Springs, Amarillo, Flagstaf, Barstow and on to the West Coast for the event. 

 

A great Speedster trip!  Join us---and anyone else , the more the merrier.  Anyone thinking of doing this?

Last edited by Jack Crosby
IaM-RayIaM-Ray

I am really enjoying this thread. Stan, Bob et al, you guys are giving great advice. I think it depends on how OCD you are with details and precision, and of course all other personal attributes we have down to the final choice which is individual taste. For me, I owned a real 59 356A coupe then an IM 2110cc, fully deck out air cooled bought used which I really liked and now a new IM built to my specs... It is good to have choices and different skills and different price points in the manufacturers marketplace. I am hoping to be in Carlisle for the first time this year, booked hotel already.. Ray 

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