Intermeccanica Communication

With the demand for 356 replicas at an all time high, you kind of wonder what the heck is going on......

Agreed....we as a country are nowhere close to having the "infrastructure" (the Grid) to support all the chargers that would be needed for electric cars.....it is truly NUTS!!!!

"Hello consumer, we know what is best for you and believe that our, and your, best interests are served by beating you into submission by eliminating options from our product line. The contact information for our ICE building competitors can be seen below, you cretin."

How sad.

Electrameccanica is a BEV company, hanging their hat on a glorious green future of miracle machines which are going to save the planet, give us white teeth and fresh breath, and cure male pattern baldness and erectile disfunction.

As such, the gross polluters - those unwashed Philistine ICE Speedsters do not fit with the squeaky-clean image they'd like to project of being on the right side of history. No right-thinking "citizen of the world" would ever want a climate-killing cudgel, not when they could own and operate a 3-wheeld golf-cart with less than 100 miles of range. Only $20,000! The planet is SAVED!!

If the Reisner family Intermeccanica was wrong, I don't wanna' be right.

The king is dead. Long live the king.

Well, the good thing is that every (recent) build comes complete with a fully documented parts list.  Most of what will be needed can be sourced from other places, etc.

So, other than our cars (Intermeccanicas) being orphans, we should be okay for what we need.

I have to admit I feel sad that the company no longer exists.  Tracing it back to the very early days - Frank Reisner built his first 'kit car' in the 1950s in Canada - the company has/had quite a storied history, and is still quite respected by those who know of it.

And being a Canadian company makes it all that more special to me.

@Larry Scislowicz posted:

Agreed....we as a country are nowhere close to having the "infrastructure" (the Grid) to support all the chargers that would be needed for electric cars.....it is truly NUTS!!!!

It's OK, just chant "ooooohhhhhhmmmmm" over and over as we FIRMLY put the cart before the horse. And might I add, on the wrong country trail.

See what I did there?

I believe we need a moment of silence for the end of an era, followed by a toast of your favorite adult beverage.

Stan makes me  want to rush out and buy an EV - "miracle machines which are going to save the planet, give us white teeth and fresh breath, and cure male pattern baldness and erectile dysfunction."  My wife comments on some of these things.

Around 3 years ago, I talked to Frank a couple of times while sourcing parts for my rebuild. He mostly wanted to talk about his trips to China.

I suspect that this has been coming for a long time and has less to do with Frank's opinion on EVs and more to do with the direction the new owners want.

I'd bet Frank is just looking for the best retirement plan after many decades of making people like us happy.

Hats off to Intermeccanica and the excellent cars they built.

The New World Order?

CBC News · Posted: Apr 04, 2022 4:00 AM ET

Despite industry foot-dragging, experts say forced sales will transform the market.

Now, if only drivers ready to make the switch could find one on the lot to buy.

According to the founder of Canadian media start-up Electric Autonomy, Nino di Cara, the only missing piece of the puzzle is that automotive manufacturers and dealerships simply haven't been stocking and selling enough EVs.

@Michael Pickett posted:

Around 3 years ago, I talked to Frank a couple of times while sourcing parts for my rebuild. He mostly wanted to talk about his trips to China.

I suspect that this has been coming for a long time and has less to do with Frank's opinion on EVs and more to do with the direction the new owners want.

I'd bet Frank is just looking for the best retirement plan after many decades of making people like us happy.

Hats off to Intermeccanica and the excellent cars they built.

Michael:  Frank was the father; Henry is the son.

You talked to Henry, I imagine, if the topic turned to  China.

I wish I had had the chance to talk to Frank.  He was quite the inventive fellow.

@Bob: IM S6 posted:

Michael:  Frank was the father; Henry is the son.

You talked to Henry, I imagine, if the topic turned to  China.

I wish I had had the chance to talk to Frank.  He was quite the inventive fellow.

Sorry, teaches me a lesson about replying before my first shot of coffee.

Or, maybe I just made the calls on my old phone...

Thanks for the correction!

@americanworkmule posted:

The New World Order?

CBC News · Posted: Apr 04, 2022 4:00 AM ET

Despite industry foot-dragging, experts say forced sales will transform the market.

Now, if only drivers ready to make the switch could find one on the lot to buy.

According to the founder of Canadian media start-up Electric Autonomy, Nino di Cara, the only missing piece of the puzzle is that automotive manufacturers and dealerships simply haven't been stocking and selling enough EVs.

If you have an agenda, you need to push it.  EV cars are not the panacea so many believe in, and I get tired of the constant hyperbole about them.

Forced sales?  No thanks.

I honestly believe ICE cars have another 25 years before they will be replaced by something else.  A niche car like an IM has even longer to profitably be produced.  The Solo is cute (or ugly depending on your view) but very impractical vehicle - especially with the new work from home trend. I doubt that it will ultimately be an EV.  Govt is pushing big time - wait til they stop getting the tax from gas sales to support infrastructure! Recent news says electric prices have doubled in Calif - plus threat of past rolling brown outs.  I'm agine trying to get out of hurricane FL with incoming blow - first thing to go is the electric grid. Need to figure out methane powered cars.

Batteries performance and longevity, that's the main issue no matter what the Government, Media and Manufactures present as the gospel truth.

@Alan Merklin posted:

Batteries performance and longevity, that's the main issue no matter what the Government, Media and Manufactures present as the gospel truth.

The batteries are pretty good these days. The biggest problem TODAY is vehicle range(where I agree with Alan), charging speed, and our overloaded and dirty grid. These are not in any order, just the three biggest problems.

Granted batteries are better than old lead acid batteries but lithium batteries tend to lose charging efficiency over years of use (most guarantees are around 8 years) they also tend to overheat and catch fire.  Scary enough your costly Tesla/Porsche is destroyed - but parked in your garage it is an even bigger issue.  A lightweight car is always fun to drive - a EV is far from light weight. Tesla battery is 1.2k # for the S model! Poor Tesla owner in Norway blew up his car because it was $23k to repair his battery power.

Our industry is getting tougher and tougher to by the day/week/year, and I'm not talking about the parts/workforce thing, I'm talking about government regs.  The Small Volume Act has the potential to help this but, but the way it is geared now it will only benefit the V8 guys and EV's.  We're working hard to get several groups together for a good 4 cyl. approved package, but thats not easy.  And I get that... you have a company that produces, literally, 1/2 million cars a year and we are wanting them to take time and money so our industry can buy a couple hundred motors a year.  And the ACVW engine will never be approved for Small Volume.  So now you have a logistics and QC nightmare in drivetrain installation and testing since the manufacturer can't touch it.  We have several programs in place that allow us to make sure everything is done right and allows me to be the final QC/tester/adjuster, but its not easy...  I couldn't imagine trying to do that across an international border.

It is a sad day.  I feel priviledged to have visited the IM plant in Vancouver.  I feel priviledged to have known Henry and to have owned an IM, a car like my 914 that I should have kept.  Having owned an IM I know the precision and craftsmanship that went into building those cars.  I currently own a spyder Vintage Motor Car with that same type of craftsmanship.  The current interiors of the Beck 356 equals the IM I owned.  If Carey and Greg can overcome these bureaucratic barriers I'm confident that our needs will be well met.  But it is sad.

BTW Wolfgang don't ever underestimate the government's ability to get tax payer dollars out of you.  My son who owns a Tesla gets a pricy bill from the VA state government every year for road use taxes.  Its already happening.

@DannyP posted:

The batteries are pretty good these days. The biggest problem TODAY is vehicle range(where I agree with Alan), charging speed, and our overloaded and dirty grid. These are not in any order, just the three biggest problems.

A new comparison study on the dirty grid problem breaks it out by type of vehicle (Hummer, F-150, Corolla, etc) and by region producing the electricity:

https://qz.com/2154558/big-ele...he-new-gas-guzzlers/

Well, it was interesting that Frank materialized on this chat  I knew what you meant Michael,  I just put it up to your clairvoyant skills.  

I have felt for a while that IM was at a crossroads and due to the E-influence and that mindset, it had taken over the company.  I mean you cannot create an E company,  and launch in on the exchange, get foreign investors without choosing to go there. It just isn't easy.  Finally, anyone who does this, does not do it alone, so those who create and use Public exchanges make sure the founders get 1`/4 penny stock.  

In all of this I hope IM's original owners and creators, that their family faired well but holding on to the creative powers is difficult when you give up control.  Once the powers to be change, the old guard, so to speak has to go.

My real issue is that we, north of the 49th seem to be headed much faster to ideology based market forces.  These planned markets never worked, and Put-In style seems to be what Jus-Tin time is using to change the BaronsOfOil to new baronsOf-E.   A powershift without the grid in place.   Coupled with the new CannabisKings that are legalizing more recreational, read this as crowd numbing, no one is politically involved it seems.  We are going to the urns shortly we will see what takes place but my real concern is freedom of speech.

Finally, I was having a discussion with someone and the conclusions went like this, if you have an ICE car it might be wise to treat it well, to keep it as long as you can until they force you to buy E.

@IaM-Ray

I suspect I'm more Clarabelle than clairvoyant. Besides no coffee yesterday (watching the sunrise over the mountain with a cup right now), my brain jumped to Frank because I associate him with building my car.

I think the only Henry item in mine at this point is a new (15 yo) wiring harness ordered by the previous owner.

Frankly, I gave up on any visceral connection with the engines delivered by manufacturers when they locked them up with plastic covers and bundles of wire. I feel the same way when I look under the hood of an EV or hybrid. It's not meant for us to touch.

That's not where I personally get my kicks. I like to play around with engines and occasionally throw a few wires on them myself. Modern ICE, electric, hybrids as delivered by big manufacturers are all the same to me, boring.

There’s a little sign at a local mechanic that says

“Do you find yourself sweating and faint at the pumps? You may have Carownervirus”

@Michael Pickett posted:

That's not where I personally get my kicks. I like to play around with engines and occasionally throw a few wires on them myself. Modern ICE, electric, hybrids as delivered by big manufacturers are all the same to me, boring.

I think all of us feel the same, from a hobby-car standpoint. If we didn't, we'd all be wasting time over on a Cayman forum, or a Corvette forum, or (perish the thought) a Tesla forum.

All the other cars/trucks/etc. in the Stanistani vehicle pool are just appliances to get from A to B - I don't feel fondly about them, I don't work on them (beyond basic maintenance, and even that is on a sporadic schedule), I just drive them.

But I do have an opinion regarding removing the choice of an ICE from the options available to me.

They aren't "all the same" to me. At all.

I live deep in flyover country, in a place where the CEO of the Fortune 500 company that used to be headquartered here announced a few years ago that he was moving the E-suite and the mailing address (along with all of the VP-level jobs) to a place where he "could attract world-class talent"... as opposed to the mouth-breathers from the fetid backwater that had served the purpose for a hundred years, one supposes. We have no good air connections, and no culture I'm told. Apparently, it is thought that we must entertain ourselves solely by picking our noses or nether-regions.

So yeah, it takes a drive to get anywhere.

The other night I got home after a long day, much of it spent driving around because things are spread out. My gas tank was on fumes. About 8 PM, I got a call and had to leave for a couple of hours. It was a big deal at a place 45 minutes away, and I had to be there ASAP. I stopped at the Circle K across the street and put $100 of good 'ol corn squeezin's E10 87 in the Promaster before heading down the road. It took less than 5 minutes and I was off to save the world.

As an appliance, I'll live with the cost and complexity of a modern ICE as long as I can run it almost constantly, if need be. I just don't have use for something that "only" takes 5 hours or 50 minutes or even 25 minutes to recharge. When I need fuel, I need it so I can get down the road. Now, or as close to now as is possible.

Give me a BEV work van that will haul me, my ladders, tools, and a small hardware store's worth of stock down the road at 75 mph for 500 miles and/or recharge in 10 minutes without spontaneously combusting, and I'll be all over it. No? Don't take away the thing that actually works.

Likewise, the daily driver. I finally live in a place where I can get a pizza or Chinese delivered. But small markets don't have a lot of flights to other places. Our local airport has non-stops to 3 cities in Florida, Chicago, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Dallas, Phoenix, and Denver. Want to go somewhere else? Sorry.

Some of the flights nominally available only run once a week, and a lot of them are seasonal (which is why Jim Umpelbe said he wanted to move the Caterpillar HQ, although it is rumored that his real reason it that his wife couldn't abide life among the great unwashed).

So... when I wanted to see @Panhandle Bob over Spring Break - it meant driving, because the flights to Destin don't start until June. It's "only" 14 hrs from here to there, so we drove. If my only choice of transportation was a BEV - that 14 hr trip would have been 20+, and it wouldn't have been a matter of "hey, are you hungry?" It would have been - "yeah, I know we just stopped 2 hours ago, but there's a Supercharger in 15 mi. and the next one is in 150 mi. and we won't make it. We'll need to stop for an hour or so to get back up to 85%."

We wouldn't have done it. Telling me "it's not that bad" is like telling me chemotherapy is not that bad because it beats the alternative. It may be the only choice available, but it's certainly not better than not needing it. I'd rather not take Chemo (or the BEV) when there are other options available.

The thing is, I don't just want the other options. I NEED the other choices in my business. And unless the social (and climate) engineers want to push all of the country-mouse outliers in the provinces into our new cages in the human zoos on each coast - it'd be good to recognize that it's not just that we're a bunch of meth-cooking, gun-toting, cousin-marrying, three-toothed Baptists that keeps us from wanting to give our lives to the new Lord and Savior (the BEV, may it be forever praised!) - it's that it just doesn't work for anybody doing anything more than commuting out in Forgotonia.

As far as a BEV hobby car made to resemble a cantankerous 65 year old car - yeah, Electrameccanica is going to get right on that... once they, you know, actually start to BUILD the freaking AA powered tricycle nobody that wants they've been promising for a half-dozen years. Chances didn't exactly get better now that Henry is no longer a part of the great leap forward.

Wanna' buy a bridge?

Calm down, Stan 🙂

@Michael Pickett posted:

Calm down, Stan 🙂

Don't poke the bear.

@Stan Galat, I'm guessing you're upset by something I said regarding liking old engines I can fiddle with better than anything (ICE, hybrid or EV) being made by car companies today.

In reading your response it sounds like you think I'm trying to take away your work vehicles or that I support that position?

I'm not trying to upset you.

Michael:  I think you need to meet Stan in person to get the full understanding of his posts here.

He really is a big teddy bear who likes to growl once in a while.  But like all teddy bears, the growl is not a real growl, if you get what I mean. 

@Michael Pickett posted:

@Stan Galat, I'm guessing you're upset by something I said regarding liking old engines I can fiddle with better than anything (ICE, hybrid or EV) being made by car companies today.

In reading your response it sounds like you think I'm trying to take away your work vehicles or that I support that position?

I'm not trying to upset you.

Heck no! The "don't poke the bear" thing was meant to make fun of myself.

As I've said many, many times - you are by far the most balanced BEV owner I've ever met. You have one because it works for you. I was trying to clarify why it doesn't work for me, or a lot of people like me.

I was trying (a little) to take a break from the whole BEV thing, but then I got ticked off by the stupidity of the entire Intermeccanica thing, and began to froth at the mouth.

I could talk for 20 minutes about my recent experience trying to buy a work truck, but suffice it to say that the 2000 word rant had nothing to do with you. We're 100% solid.

Sorry I didn't make that clear.

@Michael Pickett I can 100% guarantee Stan is not upset with you.

I am perplexed by Henry and IM getting involved in the whole Electrameccanica thing in the first place. It is an interesting concept, but in my opinion just a diversion from the house that Henry(and Frank) built. The first domino fell in this venture, and then they all started to fall. I fear that after that it just took on a life of it's own, and the die was cast with regards to the company's future. Once Henry no longer had control there was nothing left to do.

Those little Goldmember-looking electric cars are the antithesis of what makes IM what it was.

It's really too bad because Henry made a lot of very beautiful, functional, well-performing and innovative toys. I've ridden and driven type1, NA Suby, turbo Suby, and 911-powered IM cars. They're extremely well-crafted.

I have a feeling that this may be what ticks Stan off. I don't own an IM, and I'm a little ticked off about it.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm upset about Intermeccanica's path, too. I agree that the three wheeler combines the worst of several vehicle options. Maybe the main market is China, although I don't see the advantage of having the Intermeccanica name on it, if that's the case.

The only other thing I see is Canada is one of the 9 (14?) countries that have put a date on new cars having to be EVs (the US is not one of those countries).

Making ICE cars in Canada does have a freshness date and that might have played a part in Henry's decisions. Who knows for sure...

@Michael Pickett posted:

The only other thing I see is Canada is one of the 9 (14?) countries that have put a date on new cars having to be EVs (the US is not one of those countries).

Governments change, and so do mandates.  I really can't see EVs being the primary or only vehicles up here.

We do have six months of winter, and roads that go on for miles through lots of wilderness.

@Bob: IM S6 posted:

Governments change, and so do mandates.  I really can't see EVs being the primary or only vehicles up here.

We do have six months of winter, and roads that go on for miles through lots of wilderness.

I suspect you are right. No politician who wants to be reelected would force an unworkable situation. Putin, however...

Honestly owning an IM, it is a bit more perplexing but we will survive.  From my point of view and this is all supposition.  The EV-IM venture was a play to leverage IM to the larger market with his original partner and promoter and get on an index to raise funds.  I think the whole project once launched provided a way to get the value out of IM the family company, with cash and stock transfers and EV-IM to take over completely from IM.  I don't think the reality set in until the 5-6 year a usual time frame for founding shares to be able to cash out their given shares and the employment contract was cancelled.  I hope the IM family did ok financially in the whole matter, but I am only summizing they did.

The bigger issue is the whole ICE to EV forced conversion to us cretins. When i hear words like the science is settled when the environmental cost of this ideology is just as toxic as the beginnings of ICE I start to laugh because science is never settled.  Don't get me talking about our present situation where science is prevented from having dialogue.  We need freedoms to do science, free speech and freedom of conscience and the right to choose.

I get the practicality in a DDrivers being EV, in town,  but being a liberatarian at heart I want less choices made by fiat and for individuals to make those choices.

If you follow the money the revelation of who has interest in the force feeding can lead to who got the pot of gold.  

One of my favourite news casters reacted to our latest Gov budget here:

"Over here In my latest Epoch Times column I say the feds allocating 15 Billion in their latest budget to tell entrepreneurs how to be smart and original reveals a deep-seated and fatuous confidence in government."

@Michael Pickett posted:

I suspect you are right. No politician who wants to be reelected would force an unworkable situation. Putin, however...

Or Just-In

@IaM-Ray posted:

Or Just-In

Ha!

The electric car pursuit I feel is the the antithesis of its goal.

It takes 500,000 pounds of mined materials to build a battery a 1,000 pound battery, Tesla's Model S comes in at 1240 Pounds.

The average house has 200 amp service and charge rates will have an impact if your current demand is such that it is already close to panel support.

We are an impatient lot as human beings and fast charging your EV is going to be the solution which ups the demand on the existing, here's the word ,Infrastructure. You can only rob from Peter to pay Paul until you have to call Larry the electrician. Do you have number 6 wire and a 60 amp breaker in your house and what happens to the Infrastructure when your whole neighborhood goes EV and is as impatient as the rest, does your electric shaver stop working.

The solution is spend more money for home battery stations and such but the amount of money being spent to overcome the failings of any battery, charge cycles, the issues of seasonal ambient temperature changes.

I think the Hybrid was the solution and has seemed to work quit well in the case of the Prius but all electric with total dependence on current battery technology is not the answer. In our rush to ban the incandescent light bulb they forced the CFC bulb on us.

My Hazmat suit still hasn't arrived for me to properly dispose of my current supply of CFC bulbs.

We went to the moon, a better battery is not the answer.

My 12 volts.

Just a random thought, I'm no electric engineer but would this be feasible?

Build an EV with two batteries. Battery number 1 powers the car on the road and turns a Generator/alternator that charging Battery number 2.  After Battery number 1 reaches a programmed low, power is switched over to Battery number 2 and it runs the EV and charges Battery Number 1....

I'm just saying?

Ummm...I just remembered the rush to EVs is all about climate change and global warming. Shame on me for not keeping up with the latest scientific information:

Climate Change

The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from the Consulate at Bergen, Norway.

Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard of temperatures in the Arctic zone.

Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes.

Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm.

Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.

Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.

Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coast cities uninhabitable.

I must apologize. I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post 96 years ago. This must have been caused by the Model  T Ford's emissions or possibly from horse and cattle farts.