Intermeccanica Watercooled IM

I thought I'd start this as a new thread over here instead of further hijacking Jane's for sale ad. :)

I've been following intently the development of the SAW water cooled roadster and was thrilled to hear the Henry is also introducing a watercooled unit.

I understand it will have a 1.8L water cooled VW engine. Does anyone have any more details on what vintage the engines will be? Are they the current full zoot FI engines or are we looking at older carb'd units?

Any other info available would be welcome. :)

-Jeff

I can't say for sure, but last time I was in Vancouver Henry said he was not going to use previously owned engines in his cars. He didn't say it like that, Henry was much more descriptive in his explaination.

As I am sitting here, I am starting to think that a VR6 is not much larger than the 1.8 and there are quite a few tuner parts for the 1.8 out there.

Hmmmmm.

I'd settle for a stock, late model, fuel injected unit. :)

-Jeff

As I understand it, Henry can put any VW engine in his cars, even a turbo engine. He is also using Porsche suspension on these cars!

I am going by Henry's shop in a few days. Maybe I'll take some pictures while I'm there. At the very least I'll ask some questions.

Pictures, videos, info. :)

As someone else pointed out, the video feature on modern digi cams is ideal for YouTube style stuff. :)

I don't think anyone here would turn down a fresh update from all things IM. :)

Thanks Ron!

-Jeff

You need this. Turbo powered.

The nice thing about the VW liquid cooled engine is the aftermarket add-ons like Dale said, they are very available. I don't know how much room Henry plans to leave for those kind of changes, so it may need to be built that way to fit it in.

The porshce suspension sounds nice. Hopefully, he will make the rack and pinion standard on these, since they are for a customer wanting the more modern stuff.

It will be interesting to see how he mounts the radiator, if he puts it up front or in back and such.

Dale, I don't know about the physical size of the VR6 engines but we have a 2001 Jetta VR6 and it blows the doors of the neighbor's 500 series BMW according to him after he drove it. If you use the stock ignition you'll need deep pockets to support it. Within 3 years we had to replace the spark plug wires twice after the high tension spark burnt a couple of them out. At $65.00 each, your looking at $390 before taxes just to replace the wires. Not like the old VW, where $7.00 get you a set of 8mm wires at Pep Boys, these can only be bought at a VW dealer as far as I know. If you can squeeze one in you won't need a 2.0 turbo or even the new 5 cylinder Jetta engine which we found both anemic in comparision to the VR6.

Nolan,
The lovely Mrs. Bates drove a 2002 VR6 Jetta for 45,000 miles over the four years we owned it. Although she doesn't like a stick shift she drove the Tiptronic like Bobby Rahal would. She loved the acceleration when passing more than she loves me I think. We never spent a cent on engine maintenance other than the oil changes and I think an air cleaner.

I don't know if it fits in Henry's IM "watermeccanica" but I know he has made some changes in the frame to customize it for the water cooled engines.

I don't recall where the radiator is positioned but I anticipate a wonderful car for those choosing to go this way.

I also was a VR6 Jetta owner... Great little car but man did it torque steer like a bastard... Same problem with the plug wires on mine. Other than that, was amazing value for the money.

I think it might be a bit much for one of these little tubs, but thats just me...

I do know the shocked look on the 5.0 Mustang drivers face when I kept pace and then pulled away in the near term was worth the gas money... :)

-Jeff

Well, the radiator is in the front. I know that much.

Also, a rear engined IM won't torque steer, though keeping the tires from spinning might be a problem.

So far, so good I guess.

Cool, pun intended.

Does anyone know what other updates/modificiations to braking/suspension and so forth that Henry has in mind to match the water cooled engine?

-Jeff

I've been writing a bit more since my car is actually on the assembly line. I ordered it more than a year ago, but it took Henry a while to source all of the components for my build, especially the engine. I was in no hurry to get the car so it worked out rather well for us both Henry.

The radiator is indeed in the front, he cut away a bit of the front of the car behind the bumper to improve airflow. Between the rad, the battery and the rack and pinion steering there's not much left in the front truck for storage....

We went for a 915 transmission and the Porsche front end suspension, with regular IM suspension in the rear, and disk brakes all around. Henry had to weld up my frame twice to accomodate some last minute changes, but that was mostly my fault..... and yes, it seems to be a bit more work to get the engine in there. He went to his usual great lengths to keep the engine low and foward. I believe I'm getting a 2.0 engine, as he felt the 1.8 turbo was going to create heat problems. I didn't really need the extra power and am quite happy with the way the car is going to turn out.

The rest of the car is pretty well stock, a Roadster D with the taller seats, leather interior, etc. I went for roll up windows rather than electric to save a bit of money, but sprung for the heated seats, intermittent wipers ( I'm in Vancouver ) dual 12 volt power outlets under the dash for my cell phone and stuff, and wired it for fog lights and put in the fasteners for a full tonneau that I'll pick up in the future. No air conditioning, mostly because IM puts a lower pannel on the dash to accomodate the vents and controls, and that eats into my leg room. I'm 6'4 and plan to be for a while.

The car is painted a period Ruby Red, but slightly metallic, with a sand coloured roof and brown interior carppet. Didn't go for the square weave carpet as I know it will get wet out here and I didn't want anything that might rot too easily. The leather colour is that warm biscut colour. I'm getting some square weave style floor mats to keep the authentic flavour.

The big problem I have is with storage space. I went for the luggage rack and want to get some kind of case that locks onto it, but don't know exactly how to do that yet. I'm also looking at getting a lockable case built in the back seat area that will match the colour of the car and possibly use the same leather so it will look like it belongs.

I've been to the shop every week to video the building of the car, including conversations with Henry about how it was put together, but it won't be finished for another two months or so, and I'll clear it with Henry before posting the video.

It was a bit of a pain getting a lease arranged, but I think that is under control. They certainly charge a bit extra when they have no idea what you are talking about. Most companies sugegsted I talk to someone else.

I've been waiting sooooo long for the car it does not seem real that it will be ariving in a few months, I keep putting off cleaing out the other side of the garage but I guess I'll have to get to it pretty soon. Maybe I'll paint the walls too.

Gz


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Hey John -

While that is a LONG time to wait for something you're really jonesing for - I believe it will be worth the wait. You will definitely be getting some SERIOUS SMILEAGE driving your new ride!!

Hang in there!

Peace - Out!

The "lease" idea is unique. Although it's certainly none-of-my-business, you did bring the subject up.
How does the lease of an IM work? Are you leasing to save dough or because you don't plan to keep the car long (two reasons most people lease)?
Who are you leasing through - i.e., who "owns" the car?
Don't mean to be nosy...well, actually, I guess I do.

LOL, I am also curious about this, I checked in to a lease deal and the cost was so ridiculous I couldn't justify it, but if I could some how figure out a way to claim the car is for business use then a lease may pay for itself in tax savings.

Be wary of leases, we leased a new Jetta a couple of years ago. When I went to add it to my insurance policy, my insurance company required that all my vehicles carry the higher premium for leased vehicles. This raised my annual rates nearly 50%, even on my Spyder which I drove less than 2,000 miles.

Be careful how you go about cleaning that garage. It sounds like you are tempering your zeal with the right amount of procrastination. Were you to rush out and really do a fine job, say like a few of the garages I have seen in my WAG travels, your wife will be all over you to perform other repair and clean-up magic in more mundane territory around the homestead.

This is a very dangerous and potentially expensive precedent for the male homeowner slash soon-to-be speedster (wanna-be, after all it is a roadster, LOL) owner.

Be extremely cautious as you evaluate the various hinderances to your ultimate parking space. As an example, should there be some frilly, absolutely-doesn't-belong-in-a-man's-garage sort of girly-thing, think before you act. Make certain to organize and dutifully store your more neccesary manly items, such that they are not underfoot and a threat to the new arrival's paint job.

Sacrafices are sometimes needed to sell your point. You may have to throw out a perfectly potentially repairable good rod and reel that has been hopelessly bent and tangled for the past fifteen years near the water heater, awaiting your attention. With that monofillament spider web gone and no longer getting caught in the attic ladder, how can she argue that her Mix Master and curtain rods in need of refurbishment should take up valuable space?

A further warning would be any wallboard you install, repair, patch or paint in the garage will lead to a whole review of how you hang pictures in the house and how many unfilled nail holes lurk throughout your lair. This, of course leads to needless repainting of rooms seldom as important as your garage.

Trust me, with four official ex-wives and a trail of significant others in my past, these truths are irrefutable. A gargage is worth fighting for and should be equal in square footage to the domestic quarters she calls home. Any safe space dedicated to your new car is a victory. Don't let that victory slip through your fingers!

Trick or Treat...I'll be the one dressed as the elitist pig on your doorstep this evening!

Boy oh boy, truer words have never been spoken. I tiled the garage floor and painted the walls in anticipation of my SAW Cabriolet. Since that time I've had to completely remodel a bathroom, install crown molding throughout the house, remodel the master bedroom walk-in closet and shop for pictures for the Frau. That car better be ready soon or I'll be too worn out to enjoy it.

John, any idea what year the 911 front suspension your using is?

That's a whole lot of questions for me to answer....

The lease is a way for the car to be a company car rather than a personal vehical, so the money I spend on it is pre-tax. I am talking to my accountant about other options as the lease is very expensive indeed. It lets me keep a large back end payment so the monthly payments are less, but you pay for it. I can still buy the car personally and have my company cover all of the expenses, including insurance and gas. As with everything the more you put down the less you pay in interest, so the jury is still out.

We moved into the house last year, and I'm pretty sure the garage was clean at that time. The walls need patching and paint, but the big thing is just finding a place to put the 30-40 boxes we have still not unpacked.....

The Porsche 911 suspension was from the late 70's or early 80's I believe. I do not know the exact model or date however. I'm pretty sure it will be a step up over what is normally fitted. This way the car is actually 3 cars in one, IM, Porsche and Volkswagon.

Henry was making great progress on the storage box that will be fited in the back seat area, so perhaps I can take more than some boxer shorts, toothbrush and a laptop on my road trips after all. Actually, I need to transport my camera bag and a bag of foul weather cloths at all times, since I often don't get a lot of warning before having to go to a set. Often my cell rings and it's just get to set right away, and it's pissing out, or freezing, or in a bug infected swamp. Must carry a fine assortemt of hats - toques, bug hats and those French Foreign Legion hats with the towel hanging down at the back


You know, I was at IM yesterday and Henry let me take on the kubelwagons for a spin. That is a great car, way more practical than the 356, gets just as many looks and is a hoot to drive. I think I know what I'm buying next.

gz

John: a quick and easy solution to the lease and write-off, is to park the car at the biz location with decal of some sort with the biz's name on it. It is now consider rolling advertisement and not only a write-off but a depreciation too. But I am not an accountant, just played one for halloween and I stayed in a holiday express once.

let your child form the leasing company and keep payments/income to them below taxable levels.

So is that a fuel injected or carb'd engine that you're putting?

Any idea what vintage the engine is? Who builds it?

-Jeff

The engine that Henry/Intermeccanica uses is a NEW 1.8L VW engine. Never been used, brand new engine. The engine is fuel injected and basically just like the one in current Golfs.

This should make it easy to register the car is states such as California that require Special Constructed Vehicles to pass smog for the engine year installed.

Yes, they are new engines. I believe mine is the 2.0. but that Henry hopes to standardize on the 1.8 in the future. Of course the gret thing about IM is that you can have whatever you want, for a very reasonable sum. The engine is longer than the air cooled ones, so it is going to move more of the mass towards the rear of the car for a true porsche driving experience. Yes, the car will be actively trying to kill me.

I was there yesterday, he's building a lock box where the back seat went. It will be covered with the same carpet and leather as the rest of the car so it should look quite slick. I also went with the bigger bullet shapped side mirrors. The driving is dangerous in Vancouver, so bigger mirrors set up ralley-style help.

gz

John, I am very interested in this car. I see it as a real positive in Intermeccanicas line, both for those that want an anytime, anywhere basically zero tinkering car, and for those that live in states with stringent smog rules.

The IM BBQ is scheduled for the weekend just after the 4th of July and I hope you are able to be there to show the car, and renew our aquaintence. Congratulations on helping to break new IM ground.

Thanks Dale. I do visual effects for the film industry and I'm used to dealing with the most reasonable unreasonable people you are likley to meet, people who are used to asking for and then getting whatever they want, for a reasonable sum of money. I guess I went to Henry with my unreasonable requests and he fell into the same trap.

Actually, I think what he is building for me was something he was thinking about for a while. SAW really raised the stakes in the high end market so I gave him an opportunity to prototype a car for a client who was no particular hurry. This car is a true daily-driver, which his product line has always been built around. I love tinkering with things and would love to tinker with this car. But I'm not a mechanic, maybe I could play one on TV. I need a car that will start every time and get me to set in the rain, snow, heat, without fail. It's quite amazing what we expect of our cars and what they are actually able to deliver.

The design of my build has been one of the best experiences I've had lately, it's not just great fun to do, but also to explain to other people. They can't believe that there are people out there who still hand build cars and that people like all of us can buy them.

I try to make it to the IM picknics but am otherwise not a car show kind of guy. I work too much and only spend time at work and with my family. But I've told Henry that if he needs the car to show to potnetial clients I'm very happy to make it available to him for whatever he needs. Maybe he'll let me trade it for that skookum Kubelwagon for a few days at a time.

gz

Man, I can't spell worth a damn. Is there any way of getting a spell checker in here ? Just a thought. Otherwise the site is great. Now that I almost have a car and am posting a bit maybe I should pony to keep the site going. Hmmmmm

John,

The car sounds great. If you want a spell checker, switch to the new FireFox 2 web browser, it has one built in that underlines any spelling mistakes for you and lets you right click to fix them.

A brand new 1.8L or 2.0L engine, presumably to North American specs is truly excellent. Definitely a daily driver kind of car.

I've long been following the SAW product and am getting close to ordering a water cooler roadster/speedster as soon as I get a bit more visbility on my next posting. The IM sounds like a very viable option as well. It's nice to have choice.

Can you give us some sense of the product cost relative to the current IM lineup? I realize your project is customized, just trying to get a sense. Is US$40Ks in the zone?

-Jeff

I would guess that even Henry isn' sure where the price will be on these cars yet. He could give you an estimate, but until he see's what all he is going to have to put into the car, he wouldn't know his costs.

I can't really comment on the price, indeed it's been a learning experience for all of us. Henry has sold another watermeccanica so he's got it worked it out somewhat.

I looked into SAW as well Vintage but decided to go IM, I never actualy saw a SAW so cannot really comment on the build quality, and all of the phone conversations I had were always informative and entertaining, but also because IM is in Vancouver where I am currently living, and I could watch the progress. Henry made my build the prototype for the same reasons, that if there were any problems it would be easy for him to trouble shoot it without travel.

I'll post some more after I visit the shop next week.

gz

John, that's a smart and convenient choice for both you and Henry, to be close to each other with the first off example of the new water-cooled IM. Steve (of SAW) deliberately took the same approach with my car, which was also the first of its type. He was very pleased that his first customer for the Tubaru was a local person.

I am happy for you to have this experience and will look forward to your reports of the progress of the project. I, like many of the members of this website, will be anxious to hear your reports after you have received the car. Good luck. I'm sure it will be worth the wait and I know you must be very excited.

I am very happy to see that Henry will be offering a watercooled IM. I love my monster Miata, but I really miss my old 1984 IM. Somewhere down the road I'd like to rejoin the fold and purchase a new watercooled IM. That would be a great retirement present (to myself).

Hopefully more info will be posted on the IM website soon about this product. I'm hoping someone from SAW may also get a chance to update the customer cars section and give a bit more detail on how things are going. I think someone said they have a dozen or so orders backlogged so I doubt we'll see any updates soon, but I guy can hope. I know Henry is very serious about his web presence so I'm sure once he decides to get the word out on the watercooled cars the site will be updated.

-Jeff

Guess now it is SAS not SAW.

Ron, it's great to hear you're still around! You should get ahold of Henry soon. And you missed the BBQ last summer. The other Ron isn't going to be happy at all.

Hmm, you're right. SAW is now SAS... Does anyone know why the change? I also can't seem to find the customer cars link anymore on the Porsche section. That's a bit odd...

-Jeff