My car is titled as a 1969 VW...BUT I believe I have a swing axle. In all the reading, it seems in 1969 all the beetles started with IRS?
2 questions - how do I know for sure - is there any easy way to tell AND - if it is swing, does that mean the back half of my chasis was not original to the VIN number?
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Comparison of the two types, just look underneath:
Throwing a swing axle trans (complete hub-to-hub) in an IRS chassis only needs different spring plates bolted on, no chassis mods needed. You'd be able to see the unused diagonal arm inner pivot points on the torsion tube (right at the joint between the torsion tube and the frame horns) if it was converted that way. Or at least very unlikely they would have gone to the trouble to remove those brackets.
Nice illustration, Justin!
Where do you get all this info?
I always thought I was doing well with a few old service manuals (huge, so they are) but your collection of on-line stuff is amazing.
ACTUALLY JUSTIN CALLS VINCE FOR INPUT AND PICS
Nice illustration, Justin!
Where do you get all this info?
I always thought I was doing well with a few old service manuals (huge, so they are) but your collection of on-line stuff is amazing.
Google?
IRS or Swing axle "images"
Oh noooooooooooooooo! My ancient chinese secret is revealed to the world!
I DONT THINK ITS GOOGLE 
That answered a question for me, but left me with another ! My swing axle car has the IRS brackets. Why would you convert to a swing axle?
ps it's a 69
I need to crawl under mine and look and I guess I have the same question as tuxedo
Makes it handle more like the real thing? I know on dune buggies, they say its more robust. Probably result in narrower rear track.
There are far more swing-axle beetles than IRS.
I believe Kirk sets up all his cars as swing-axle unless you specify.
Regarding handling - IRS, hands down.
I a 100% sure it's swing. when I lift the car the wheels tuck under. I just want to see if there is any remnants of the IRS. Interesting that he would choose to do that.
Don't get hung up on the Year/VIN or trying to correlate it. I have know many a person in the VW Hobby to cut out and weld in the the VIN Secton (by shifter access plate). Also, since these frames need cut and shortened it not unrealistic to have a front and back end from different cars.
30 years ago when bugs were still everywhere and basically left to rot, I had a friend who "cut up" probably close to 100. If he had a clean title to the car, he would cut a wide swatch out of the frame tunnel that had the VIN. To this day, he has a stack of clean titles with matching frame section.
It is also not unrealistic to find a car with a ground off original VIN and a new VIN that matches "some 'clean' title" re-stamped.
Simply put, I/anyone could build a tube frame chasis - kit car and weld in that section of a VW frame tunnel that matches a clean title and Viola! most DMV's will inspect and grant a title as 19?? VW ???.
my 2006 vintage speedster is also built on a 69 pan and it was converted to swing axle which was disappointing. I called Kirk and he told me that he converts all to swing axles because the IRS is slightly wider and will not fit under the body. I installed a front stabilizer bar and a rear camber compensator. The rear wheels still tuck under and it gets squirrly when I push it.
Joel
You guys with swing axles know that you can weld in the pivots and narrow the trailing arms, right?
Al
IRS
HAD IT ON THE COUPE AND SPEEDSTER
It's VERY easy to tell the difference.
If you have skinny CV joint rear axles with diagonal arms, you've got IRS. Like this:
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/...ieds/pix/2327774.jpg
If you have larger diameter rear axles, without diagonal arms you have swing axle. Like this:
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/...ieds/pix/3571806.jpg
The problem with swing axles - aside from the fact that camber changes with the movement of the rear suspension (really the #1 reason you DON'T want swing axles) - is that the rear wheel bearings in a swing axle are lubricated through the axle tubes with the transmission fluid. So if you lower the rear end, not only do you have massive camber issues (ever seen a lowered old school beetle with its rear wheels tilted inwards?), but also your rear wheel bearings are going to be starved of lubrication because the transmission fluid can't make it up the now vertically angled axle tubes.
IRS is what you want all day long. The wheel bearings are normal grease packed bearings, and your camber stays essentially correct no matter the suspension travel.
my 2006 vintage speedster is also built on a 69 pan and it was converted to swing axle which was disappointing. I called Kirk and he told me that he converts all to swing axles because the IRS is slightly wider and will not fit under the body. I installed a front stabilizer bar and a rear camber compensator. The rear wheels still tuck under and it gets squirrly when I push it.
Joel
Good info. Do you know if Kirk uses the early swingaxle's that are shorter than I believe 67? There are two lengths of Swing Axels?
There are 3 swing axle lengths for the 40hp and newer cars; 1960 to '66 used the short axle/ short spline (26 11/16"), '67 are short axle/ long spline (27 13/16") and '68 and newer bug and all type 3 are long axle/ long spline and measure 28 7/16". I remember there also being a paint ring that identified the early and late ones (I don't know about '67's); I think pink was early and green was the later ones, but don't quote me on that. Anyone that knows, feel free to chime in... If your car has tire clearance issues and it has late axle/tube assemblies, the early axles and tubes are 1 3/4" shorter (if you can find a set).
The 36hp cars (up to '59?) used a different axle/tube set. The axles were slightly thinner (and lighter). A local drag racer in the late '60's and early '70's used them on his car, so they can be made to bolt up to a tunnel type trans case (the 36hp cases were split and bolted together) but I don't know what was involved. Al
That answered a question for me, but left me with another ! My swing axle car has the IRS brackets. Why would you convert to a swing axle?
ps it's a 69
Standardization.
Everybody wants these cars to be full-custom, and cost $20K. VS can build a car inexpensively by making them all the same. Making every car an IRS would mean welding pivot points on most of the cars, and buying a pile of extra parts per car (none of which are cheap). Making them all swing means trailing arms and the trans-- much simpler. Add in the fact that a guy can more easily run 5.5" wheels, and it's pretty obvious why. It's less expensive to just convert everything to swing.
This is one of the reasons why I keep trying to point out that these cars are often very different from one another once you get under the pretty skin-- much like beautiful women are very different from one another. All of them are nice to look at, but only some are a joy to live with.
Not to ask a stupid question...but here goes one! 
I'm new to speedsters, but have owned an IRS Ghia for a while now. I can't imagine why anyone would convert the superior IRS setup to a swing axle. It's like making your really hot girlfriend have plastic surgery so that she can look just average.
What's the basis for the conversion? I get the standardization point, but why the standardization at all? If you're going for low cost, wouldn't it cost less to just leave the donor car be, rather than spending labor time to reduce the IRS's capacity for improved handling?
According to one of the builders...the builder I used and from what someone said above...the body doesn't fit using the IRS so they switch it to swing
Coolryde I am loving those pics
Comparison of the two types, just look underneath:
Throwing a swing axle trans (complete hub-to-hub) in an IRS chassis only needs different spring plates bolted on, no chassis mods needed. You'd be able to see the unused diagonal arm inner pivot points on the torsion tube (right at the joint between the torsion tube and the frame horns) if it was converted that way. Or at least very unlikely they would have gone to the trouble to remove those brackets.
so do I have to use the single sided case to do this type of conversion?irs on the right &swing on the left...... swing& irs...must be for herbie racing nascar......or just a new way for the irs guys/gals to spend our money at a swingers club.and not rember who said what or who sent the memo ,or why thier name was on it...take the fifth&drink it, with who I cant remember but I think I had some help...it's all a little fuzzy I just cant recall....little fuzzy???? yes well shaved.....as I almost recall.
Ok, next question. Is there now a way to get back to IRS and still have the tires fit within the body?
I have IRS with disc brakes and have 5.5" Mahle mini-burners, 185/65/15 tires.
I have a shaved rotor on the right side and have 1/4" fender clearance.
If you wanted to run 5.5" stock wheels with rear discs you would need to re-center the wheels or shorten the axles...easy job according to Mango.
Ok, next question. Is there now a way to get back to IRS and still have the tires fit within the body?
IRS trailing arms can be narrowed as much as much as 1 1/2" and most wheels and tires (measure before disassembly) will clear the springplate. Empi sells brand new axle/cv joint assemblies (one of the few things I would buy from them) for a type 3 automatic. You will need 2 of the shorter axles; one side (driver's?) is shorter than the other. If your pan is a swingaxle and doesn't have the trailing arm pivots on the torsion bar tubes they can be bought and welded on. Aircooled.net sells the brackets http://vwparts.aircooled.net/I...al-Arm-p/5519-16.htm and will rent the jigs http://vwparts.aircooled.net/I...nal-arm-jig-rent.htm to locate them properly. Al
easy job according to Mango.
Haters gunna hate 
^^^^^ wango tango mango !!!!!
Kevin, this has to be a dumb question, but are the torsion bars still functional with the Mendeola rear?
No Doug, The torsion bars are a thing of the past. Your car is now a coil over car.
hey kevin if you made a torsion tube and go from 1 side to the others and splined it to the rear arms like the oe system but not splined to the housing in the middle it could function as the anti roll bar. althou tuneability would be in the bar size as you couldent change the pivot(effective length, bar to axle centerline) I had thought about this on oe the front suspension for a light car. yes I know there is a lot to it.keep up the great work. Im just messen with you, your system is great.
