@ALB posted:What Gordo meant to write- There's not a ton of difference between the 2 ring & pinions. The shorter (3.88) will be quicker through the gears, slightly less top speed in each gear and less top speed overall. The longer (3.44) will be slower through the gears with higher top speeds in each gear. If you like ripping it up in town pick the 3.88.
And Gordon- my apologies; I couldn't resist!
It's 11-12 percent shorter or longer, whatever way you'd like to look at it.
This was a great thread for helping numbskull's like me get a better understanding of my car - thanks fellas.
Bill
Spend the bucks. Get the 2332 engine and 3.88/.89 rear end. These are not racing cars. Plenty of punch in all gears. No more discussions about gear ratios needed!
@jprpdr posted:Spend the bucks. Get the 2332 engine and 3.88/.89 rear end. These are not racing cars. Plenty of punch in all gears. No more discussions about gear ratios needed!
Then why do they say Speedster on the side?
I agree, most guys just putt around. But some of us like to drive, and drive hard. And some even venture onto the track. 31 flavors......
@Stan Galat posted:For reference, I really like 3.78, 2.06, 1.30, .93. No big holes. With a 3.44, 70 mph is 3000 RPM. With a 3.88, 70 mph is 3500 RPM.
These ratios won't break the bank.
@Stan Galat where can I find this tool you are using? It appears to take something complicated and make it damned near idiot-proof. Coupled with a GPS speedometer, I should be able to reverse-engineer the ratio of every gear in my transaxle.
Looks like the PipeFather is using this:
@Gordon Nichols posted:Looks like the PipeFather is using this:
Null joy. :-( The domain appears to be parked.
http://www.teammfactory.com/calculator
You'll also want this, so you know what gears are actually available:
The double "m" got them.....
When searching for gears on Weddle, some are factory used VW, some are "sportsman", and some are race. Keep that in mind when searching. You also need to note the gear's position as well as the ratio. Have fun.
@DannyP posted:The double "m" got them.....
When searching for gears on Weddle, some are factory used VW, some are "sportsman", and some are race. Keep that in mind when searching. You also need to note the gear's position as well as the ratio. Have fun.
One more thing to keep in mind-- "race gears" are louder than "sportsman", "sportsman" are louder than stock. A race 4th might drive you out of your mind if you can't tolerate a pretty strong whine.
Yeah, the ratios I want: 1.39 third, which is "race". The 1.04 fourth I want is thankfully "sportsman". Stock 1-2 and a 3.44 final drive.
If the 3.44 isn't available(then I'll get a 3.88), I'll need a 1.30 third and a .93 fourth, and a custom mainshaft with taller(lower numerically) 1-2. $$$$$$$$
I'll start a new transmission trend: This one is called "Canyon Carver" or "Mountain Masher" instead of "Freeway Flyer".
Maybe even "Mountain Madness"?
"One more thing to keep in mind-- "race gears" are louder than "sportsman", "sportsman" are louder than stock. A race 4th might drive you out of your mind if you can't tolerate a pretty strong whine."
That's why if you watch the IMSA races and hear a Porsche driver talking from the cockpit under race conditions (not during a yellow caution), there is this terrific whine in the background coming from the gearbox - It's about half as loud as the driver's voice and is louder than the exhaust note in his microphone.
@Gordon Nichols posted:"One more thing to keep in mind-- "race gears" are louder than "sportsman", "sportsman" are louder than stock. A race 4th might drive you out of your mind if you can't tolerate a pretty strong whine."
That's why if you watch the IMSA races and hear a Porsche driver talking from the cockpit under race conditions (not during a yellow caution), there is this terrific whine in the background coming from the gearbox - It's about half as loud as the driver's voice and is louder than the exhaust note in his microphone.
It's a lot like a straight-cut cam gears, only it seems like they are 6" from your ear.
Except I don't believe Weddle uses straight cut gears, all are helical as far as I know.
But as you said STan, I'm sure they are louder than stock.
!?!?!?!?WHAT?!?!?!?!?
@DannyP posted:Except I don't believe Weddle uses straight cut gears, all are helical as far as I know.
They're all helical cut for sure.
I do have a call in to an East Coast trans builder that I know, looking for a 3.44 R & P that is REALLY hard to get these days. That's just shy of $600, if he even has one.
If not, it will be a 3.88, which you can still get all day long. But it will be a custom 1-2 mainshaft and special 3-4 slider at about 1000 bucks.
Even building it myself, it's gonna be 2K. With the taller 1-2, the spacing will be pretty tight, and will be going 4000 at 80, 3500 at 70, and 2800 at 55 in fourth. It will stay right on the powerband with every shift.
I sometimes fancy myself as something of an idiot savant-- but then I wake to realize that I'm just an idiot with OCD tendencies... so I plotted your two different configurations, Danny.
I know you know what you are doing, but you might want to consider a 1.26 3rd gear if you have to go with the custom main-shaft/ 3.88 gear-set.
It tidily closes up what seems like a bit of a tiny gap between 3rd and 4th, and overlays the less expensive stock main-shaft/ 3.44 almost exactly.
That's as good as it can get for mountain work with a 3.88. I wish the supply chain would open up again and we'd get some more Chinese 3.44:1 R/P gears.
Are these Chinese 3.88 and 3.44 r&p able to hold any horsepower? Back when I was drag racing vw’s I made the switch to 002 bus transmissions as the r&p were much stronger.
It's about $500 more if I end up with a 3.88 and custom mainshaft 1-2($1024 for the shaft, gears and custom 3-4 slider). If it's a 3.44 I'll need custom 3-4 gears which are about 500 or so.
The Weddle 3.44 ought to be big strong. I'm told (by the dragbox builder who made my tranaxles) that the Erco 3.44 is plenty strong enough for what we'd throw at them--and stronger than a stock 3.88 for sure.
Drag guys don't use them only because the ratio is too high.
And it does appear that the bug/VW trans and gear market is geared (ahem) toward the dragster boys. Makes sense, as they're the ones who are most likely to break parts.
@LI-Rick posted:Are these Chinese 3.88 and 3.44 r&p able to hold any horsepower? Back when I was drag racing vw’s I made the switch to 002 bus transmissions as the r&p were much stronger.
They can hold plenty of power. As long as you don't beat it up on the dragstrip every day. My car has a 3.44 from 2002, don't know what brand, but I have DEFINITELY abused it.
I want another one so I'll have a spare axle-to-axle transmission.
Ed, as far as I can tell, the Erco and Weddle r&p aren’t available. Weddle does have the Chinese 3.88 available. I think the Erco and Weddle, made in USA r&p, are actually made by US Gear? I ran a US Gear 4.57 in a 002 box and never had an issue on 7” slicks.
@DannyP posted:They can hold plenty of power. As long as you don't beat it up on the dragstrip every day. My car has a 3.44 from 2002, don't know what brand, but I have DEFINITELY abused it.
I want another one so I'll have a spare axle-to-axle transmission.
Thanks Danny! Maybe Weddle will have another batch of 3.44’s produced as there seems to be a market for them.
i dont do chinese if i have a choice
@barncobob posted:i dont do chinese if i have a choice
That's the point, Bob. With these archaic transmissions that fewer and fewer people need or want, Chinese parts are the only game in town, or anywhere else in the world.
@barncobob posted:i dont do chinese if i have a choice
Nobody likes it, but the reality is that in many, many instances, and most especially in this hobby (as the number of old pharts who have even seen an air-cooled car diminishes)-- we often don't have the luxury of choice any more.
I'd love a domestic 3.44:1 R/P. As far as I know, there haven't been any in many years. I'm setting my hopes on something with at least a marginal chance of happening.
I thought this thread was about engine displacement and horsepower. Get the 2332 engine with 3.88/.89 rear end and the gears will take care of themselves. This reminds me of choosing between a "normal" and a "super" back in the olden days. I doubt if any one besides racers worried about the gears in those days. I don't think many of us are racers in our replicas. They were simple cars then, and they are simple cars now.
Jim Ruiz,
Westchester, CA 90045
Are Brazilian VW parts a good option?
@Panhandle Bob posted:Are Brazilian VW parts a good option?
I say get as many as you can—a million, a billion, a brazilian—you can never have too many spares!
Be careful getting a Brazilian. I heard they hurt and make you itchy down there!
Parts from Brazil are usually good, second only to the Fatherland stuff.
The general feeling I got from talking to mechanics and suppliers wrt my brakes was that quality has taken a nosedive since AC VW production ended in Brazil. Many folks thinks it's only marginally better than Chinese. And many things, like Brazillian distributors, are NLA.
If I could have returned my Brazillian rear drums, I would have. I'm going to use them until (if) they fail.
I know I'll get yelled at for talking transmissions, but Brazilian bearings are sometimes the best quality you can get, when German is NLA. They are far better than the Chinese crap bearings, especially mainshaft bearings. These need to be good quality as they take a ton of abuse in a high horsepower car.
Swedish, Norwegian and Spanish bearings are pretty good, too.
Unfortunately, you often have to closely read that tiny print on the box to see where they're made. I've even bought Fafnir bearings (now owned by Timkin) thinking they would be from the USA and they turned out to be Spanish. Good stuff, just surprising.
Yes, Timken has always been quality. We used to have a local bearing place, Bobker Bearings, but the internet ruined all the Mom and pops.....
That was my go-to, they had or could get anything in a day or two.
dumb coda: original Spyder gear chart vs my fave cheap, easy gear set, with redline adjusted from the original's 7500 rpm down to 6000:
Original Spyder:
3.44/.93
RPM drops are much reduced (because everything happens 1500 rpm lower, but look at your top speed in each gear and "percent of pull" numbers.
Ed, that is assuming you can actually get a 3.44. And having run that exact "cheap" combo(except 4th, mine is 0.89) in the mountains with a stronger type1 than you have, it leaves a little to be desired. I rarely used 4th gear in NC. I'm leaning towards that exact combo, but with a 1.39/1.04 3-4. That makes the percentage pulls 31.8/33.5/34.7, which is about as even as one can get with what's available.
There is a more expensive option($1000 more than the trans above) that I believe is perfect. Again, look at those rpm drops and percentage pulls.
I'll be building one of these two options, probably the first to retain some off-the-line zip(and some cash!).
