It Lives... (already)

Welcome to The Madness! 

You did, and you were right. I don't think I'd have believed it, unless I had seen it. It takes about 15 seconds to be in perfect sync, and it stays there. The combination of the SyncLink and the Black Box has this engine idling rock steady down to <700 RPM if you want it. I've never had a VW idle so smoothly.

I'm wrecked. I want the linkage and ignition box for my bus now.

Jim,

Madness was several hundred miles back.

I'm not sure what's wrong with me, but I just couldn't stop. I was aiming for the ultimate streetable ACVW Type 1. I'm not sure I hit it, but I've done absolutely everything I know to do to make it so.

There's faster Type 1's out there, but none I'd jump into and drive across the country. That was the goal here.

This is pretty close, Stan... You're really going to like what you've created.

Stan, I'm glad your creation turned out better than George Brown's (old timers on this forum will recognize the name).

I'd love to install a SyncLink on my IM, but I have heater boxes.  I know he's developing a linkage that will work with heater tubes.

I had it out last night. With a very conservative spark map, it pulls like a freight-train. Total flow is great, but port velocity is everything. I wish I had been able to do the Super Pros (the ultimate street VW head, IMHO), but these will do in a pinch. 

Funny you mention George. I was thinking about him the other day- I really didn't like him when he was posting back in the day (he's probably the reason I built a JPS in '02, instead of what I wanted).

... but the thing was: he was right most of the time. That, and he really did break some of us out of a slavish need to ape original 356s, and enjoy these cars for the possibilities they present (by the nature of what they are, not what they aspire to emulate). He knew there was a lot to love baked in the cake.

He also spent what I (at the time) thought was a criminal amount of money on his car. Little did I know.

But if I ever start blathering on about bagging a tiger on safari with Charlton Heston while some '50s starlet made me creme brulee back at camp- please just shoot me.

Of course, in deference to George, you could only be shot with one of the pair of his matched Purdey shotguns.  Any gun of lesser quality is unthinkable, just unthinkable.  

Yes, George's last car had all of the check book stops pulled out back then, and I remember that I had to get up early one morning at Carlisle to go get some meds out of my truck and chatted with George in the Hotel parking lot.  He was "generally pleased" with his engine, but admitted that it ran a whole lot better above 4 grand than down where "normal" people would run, mostly due to the cam and valve train geometry (he had done some funky stuff on that engine).  That's probably why the next owner opted to return it to something more drive-able.

Stan's beast, OTOH and from info he's posted on it, should pull like Danny P's but with more civility.

Well done, Dear Leader!

BTW:  A guy in my local club has a dual-distributor/plug 356 engine that exhibits a lot of the same qualities:  Rock-solid idle and very smooth up through the RPM range.

Remember the Cliff Clavin joke?

Way back when someone posted a photo of George, Henry (Intermeccanica) and someone else, with George wearing a postman's jacket.

He did have a sense of humor, but he also had a very big ego.

Rusty- Over the years there have been bigger crank pulleys available to speed up the cooling fan and provide more air, but it then takes more hp to run, which produces more heat... They've never become popular because they don't actually improve the situation.

About dual spark plugs- A certain type 4 guru (who has done a lot of development work with dual plug ignition) has said that there's an 8% power gain just by adding the extra plug in the chamber. As Stan said, you can now run a full point higher compression than the engine would tolerate before; I suspect this is because of the quicker burn in the chamber and the fact that the engine now likes less advance. The previously mentioned guru also stated in one of his ramblings that dual plug equipped engines never require more than 24' total advance, and the burn being more complete and happening quicker (2 ignition sources), which allows it to happen closer to top dead center is (I think) the reason for the 8% part of the power increase.

Al - Dangit - and I thought I was on to something really big, really huge, something that had not been thought of before, something... that would revolutionize our hobby.

Stan - Perhaps you should just offer to take orders now for this twin plug setup of yours.

Don't know about the rest of you but I'm in.

Rusty, in honor of George I'm looking into three plugs per cylinder...

I'm going the other way.  I'm going with one super big plug to fire all four cylinders.  I'm going to call it a Frankenplug.

The only problem is I'll need an massive electrical storm to get it started.

The VW generator/alternator and fan are pretty well matched to a stock engine; the system is quite dependable, provides the most cooling possible where the engine makes the most power and is the most efficient (2,000-3500 or 4,000rpm), and the belt doesn't start to slip until well over 4,000-4500 rpm. It's only when we start winding them up higher that problems- slipping belts (and the belt coming off at even higher rpm's) and disintegrating fans (and the carnage they wreak on the rest of the engine) rear their ugly head.

Most higher output street engines are served well with the stock fan, pulleys and belt; engines that peak at 6,000rpm (or below) will generally be dependable. Engines that rev to 6500 can destroy the fan (and the shroud, cylinder covers, and even damage a head) so at this point a welded and rebalanced fan is a good idea. Rpm's above 6500 can throw the fanbelt, so if you rev it that high a lot, a power (smaller diameter) pulley could be a good idea. Of course, that reduces cooling air slightly. So what to do...always carry a spare?

I think we should keep it even and do four plugs per cylinder. Just imagine how cool a row of four distributers and coils would look not to mention the scientificity (is that a word?) that would go into retrofitting the added distributers...

Rusty - the officiality of 'scientificity' can not be disputilated! 

Seriously, gentlemen...what you need is more valves per cylinder, not more spark plugs. I tried that setup and it really works!

Ed's right. More valves is it.

In the absence of an engine designed in the last 75 years though, "work-arounds" are something to try anyhow.

Well, if you have a valve that is leaking I hear a porcine one can be inserted but it might leave you disgruntled, and non kosher 

Rather than hijack Kelly's thread, I just did a little cut-'n-paste to get this over here. I hope you don't mind, Gordon.

You correctly understand what I'm doing- one Pertronix pick-up in a locked out (no advance) 009, feeds a signal to the programmable module (CB Black Box), which has been modified with a second coil driver. The CB box also has a vacuum port to measure load. The output from the box goes to each coil, and back to the distributor for... well... distribution to each plug. Any kind of points or points replacement hardware can be used to trigger the black box.

I cannot tailor the spark to lead or lag- the second plug fires at the same time as the first one. There's been some dispute over how much leading or lagging helps, and I really wanted to avoid any further complexity (feel free to roll your eyes here). Jake Raby suggested in a couple of places that it works fine to just fire 'em together, so that's what I'm doing.

Why not crank-fire? My crank pulley is a lot smaller that stock, and smaller than anything out there (that I know of), so the trigger wheel was going to be a bit sketchy. I could've done a custom trigger wheel, and started down that road, but CB came out with something that I could figure out a way to do, so I went with that. A wasted spark set-up with a trigger wheel and MS controlling it would have been better in every way but one- I love how it looks with the bundle-'o-snakes distributor and 2 canister coils hanging off the shroud.

... but the distributor can move, and then needs to be re-synced to the logic (a timing light is the only way to know where things stand in reference to each other). I just did this again last night- my distributor moved 10*, so the box thought I was advanced 10*, when it was really 20*. The signal is sloppier than crank-fire as well. However, it is 10x better than ANY distributor I've ever run (and I've tried 'em all- Mallory, Mallory with vacuum advance, 009, 010, SVDA, etc.). Being able to infinitely tailor the curve is pretty cool.

madness

Stan:

I have no idea what you are talking about, but I know enough to know that the work you have done is impressive as hell.

Stan, you've got me thinking now. Maybe time for some work over the winter, as I've not got a spare engine. And I'm closing in on 40,000 miles, close to "refresh" time.

Danny,

You are a practical man. The practical solution to your "problem" is to put new guides in it, re-ring it, new seals, and go another 50k mi.

Of course, where's the fun in that.

And add a couple spark plug holes. And another coil-pack, and either coil drivers or piggyback another EDIS box to my system(easiest).

And about a point or point and a half of compression. I'm already at 9.8:1, so how about we go Spinal Tap and turn it up to 11! Should go from 172 to about 190 hp, as, according to Jake, it should gain about 10%. But more importantly, the 147 ft. lbs. would go up to over 160, now that would be fun!

Stan, I drive a Spyder, how practical can I be?

The older I get the more I like torque.

Danny- I remember Jake once saying to expect 8% just from the extra plug addition, and then you raise compression, so it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 15% with the emphasis on down low and midrange.

Ps- I know you've told me before, but 40x35 or 42x37?

So 200 horses and 1450 pounds? Oh my. Marty, you're gonna need twin turbos......