It’s A Real One!

did u get the shot before this?,,good find on the car

Yes. I’m fully vaxxed.

I could have sworn I read some info on the non-clamshell 550’s somewhere but I can’t find it. I thought it was Type550.com but so far, no go. If memory serves, they were “concept cars” for the car shows before production began, which would make this and extremely rare car.

I don't think it is an early 550. The rear of the car is sporting teardrop lenses and those didn't come out until mid '57. Not that they couldn't have been changed but why would you abandon the original lenses for teardrops? The hump of the rear fenders is way off also as is the shape of the dash. On Type550.com they post a set of the blueprints for the car and it appears that even the first ones had a clam shell.

Either way it's going to be a cool trip back to the body shop to check it out and get the rest of the information about it.

From the angle I took the picture (as I drove by) it’s hard to tell but it’s most definitely a 550. Both from the body and the frame. I suppose it could be a later recreation, but I’ve never heard of anyone doing the much more complicated early frame. It could also be a later rebody of a crashed race car.
The most puzzling thing is what the heck is it doing in a shop in a former Sears auto center with a bunch of Sprites, TR3s and 4’s, and Dune Buggies.

Also unclear from the pic is how pointy the tail was, and the flat spot for the license plate.

It looks like it might be a 550a, judging by the massive amount of small frame tubes. The 550 had a ladder frame and thick aluminum for the body. The 550a had beehive-looking taillights, not teardrops though. IIRC, those taillights weren't used by Porsche until 1957 or so. By that time, the 550 was dead and they were well into the 718/RSK series.

The 550a had a truss frame of small tubes and had MANY body attachment points. This allowed the use of much thinner body panels. The 550a frame had more in common with the birdcage Maserati than the ladder frame 550.

The 550 weighed 1250-1300 pounds, the 550a weighed 1100 and was at least twice as stiff. The 550 had a nickname too: "flexible flyer".

The first three 550 factory race cars didn’t have clamshells. But they had bigger “fins” vs the pointy tail.

Also, I don’t think the car that debuted at the Paris or Frankfurt Motor Show had one either. Still looking for a pic.

According to Type550.com, the first 5 were “fixed back.”  But that doesn’t explain why a 550A would be v

@DannyP posted:

It looks like it might be a 550a, judging by the massive amount of small frame tubes. The 550 had a ladder frame and thick aluminum for the body. The 550a had beehive-looking taillights, not teardrops though. IIRC, those taillights weren't used by Porsche until 1957 or so. By that time, the 550 was dead and they were well into the 718/RSK series.

The 550a had a truss frame of small tubes and had MANY body attachment points. This allowed the use of much thinner body panels. The 550a frame had more in common with the birdcage Maserati than the ladder frame 550.

The 550 weighed 1250-1300 pounds, the 550a weighed 1100 and was at least twice as stiff. The 550 had a nickname too: "flexible flyer".

You’re right Danny. I always confuse which came first. The tubular space frame was the A. Here’s another A but it has a clam shell, a pointy-er tail without the flat spot and more pronounced rear fender.

According to Bonhams, A’s were made from 56-58.

But important  to remember these cars were all made by hand, often  repaired, and all sorts of things were tried in an effort to gain an advantage.

Somewhere out there is a picture of the Porsche stand at the 1953 Paris Auto Show where the 550 debuted and I could swear that 550 had a fixed back, but I’ll be damned it I can find it.

I did find this while looking for it, though.

And, lest we forget, how much more the original Boxster concept resembled the Spyder than the finished production car.

What a cool find. I'd def go back and ask them what it is!

What it isn't is a 550 or 550A, and not only because the frame isn't right and the clamshell doesn't detach.

If you look at the "hump" of that rear deck you can see it's more curved and higher than any 550 car—much closer to the tops of the fenders. It's high enough you might be looking at a rear engine vehicle, not a mid.

My guess is you've found a hand-hammered special. Maybe it's an old one. Maybe not.

Definitely work checking up on though.

I don’t know Ed, like I said, the angle of the picture is deceptive. I saw “550” from a mile away. But it certainly could be a Special.  Judging by the front Wide Five Alfins and the rear torsion bar, it has to be VW/356-based.  IIRC, a couple of the Glöcklers were rear engined.

If I hadn’t been kind of freaking out about making my Covid test appt. I would have paid a little more attention.

Drove by there today and the car wasn’t outside and most of the bay doors were closed. Being Friday afternoon, I assumed they were in the process of closing. I’ll stop by on Monday. I have to go down there again for another Covid test.

@edsnova posted:

What a cool find. I'd def go back and ask them what it is!

What it isn't is a 550 or 550A, and not only because the frame isn't right and the clamshell doesn't detach.

If you look at the "hump" of that rear deck you can see it's more curved and higher than any 550 car—much closer to the tops of the fenders. It's high enough you might be looking at a rear engine vehicle, not a mid.

My guess is you've found a hand-hammered special. Maybe it's an old one. Maybe not.

Definitely work checking up on though.

Ed, you win the prize. For the rear engined suggestion.

I stopped by there today after hours and a couple of bays are opened so I poked my head in. An employee was in there working on his Saab Sonnet, but he let me drool on the car and answered a bunch of questions. As disappointing as it is that it’s not a 550, the reality is almost better.

The guy who owns the shop used to work for Rod Emory. (How he ended up in Provo, UT,* who knows) The company is called Spectre Design and the car a Spectre Porsche. The owner is designing and building it from scratch using 356 components and an 550A-like space frame.

Wouldn’t you know it, I left my phone at home when I went down, but here’s a picture from Spectre’s Linkdin profile.

As it sits now, the headlight have been filled in, and the brake ducts opened up. The front end is very reminiscent of an RS-60.

And here’s the best part: the plan is to finish this prototype and make dies to stamp out bodies and go into production. The guy I talked to says the restoration business is basically funding progress on the prototype.

Tanner (the owner) was busy when I went down, but I told him I’d bring my Spyder down at down at some point and chat with him about the car. Heck, I may even ask did a job. Stay tuned. I’ll take s bunch of pictures next time.

* As I was typing this, I realized I may have met Tanner before, at a pre-show reception prior to the big fall VW show here. He had a hot Rod Speedster in “survivor” condition and a 912 that he put a “912-R” emblem on the back as s joke when he put a big 2.5L 4 cylinder motor in it.

I'd love it if he'd let you track and report progress on that.  Do they have a website or facebook page?

It looks like a really cool and well-executed project so far.

I have a dumb question:

Why would anyone go through all this work and NOT build it mid-engine? Makes no sense to me.

That's a really good (not "dumb") question.

Because a mid-engine configuration crowds the cabin, limits ergonomics, often makes servicing the car more difficult, and dictates styling.

It's better by some metrics, but not by all.

@Stan Galat posted:

Because a mid-engine configuration crowds the cabin, limits ergonomics, often makes servicing the car more difficult, and dictates styling.

It's better by some metrics, but not by all.

Grumpy Stan is just mad that he doesn't fit.

However, with a blank sheet of paper all these problems can be solved. I don't agree that styling is dictated by mid-engine. It is more affected by rear engine, though.

I don't know about you guys, but servicing a Spyder engine in ANY way is easier than a Speedster with one exception: engine removal. But even that isn't the end of the world. I've had the engine in and out in the Spyder I'm working on three times in a week. It's just developing a system to do it that works efficiently.

Signed, founding member of the MEOC(Mid-Engine Owner's Club).

Current members: LennyC, Chris T, Carlos G, 550 Phil, Lane Anderson, and all other 550 owners. We'll even let Panhandle Bob in(CaymanS).

@DannyP posted:

However, with a blank sheet of paper all these problems can be solved. I don't agree that styling is dictated by mid-engine. It is more affected by rear engine, though.

@dlearl476 posted:

The first three 550 factory race cars didn’t have clamshells. But they had bigger “fins” vs the pointy tail.

The 550 is one of the most beautiful cars ever designed (and I love the Cayman and Boxster as well) - but David's picture of the early 550 above very clearly illustrates what I'm talking about. It is not handsome to my mind's eye. It takes a lot of clever styling tricks to make the area behind the seats and ahead of the rear wheels not look like acres and acres of yawning real-estate. There are a lot of ways to screw it up.

Regarding servicing being more difficult, for every 550 (replica or otherwise) with a nice clamshell for easy access, there are a million 914s, Caymens, MR2s, etc. without one, making access very, very limited (like looking through a mail-slot limited). If a speedster had a clamshell (ala Cory Drakes car), the advantage would be lost as well. I'm standing by the statement because of those other (non-550) cars. Clearly it doesn't apply to a Spyder.

But the primary reason (for me at least) is that the ergonomic limitations (with the mid-engine '50s style cars were talking about) are real. I fit just fine in a Cayman or Ford GT, but not in a 550 or Carey's coupe (at least in the coupe prototype). I just don't fit in either, and would never be able to. I know I'm a physical outlier, but guys up to 6'6" can fit in a speedster modified to work for them. They'll never fit in a 550 or in a mid-engine 356 coupe no matter how much tweaking they do to the seating position.

I love the mid-engine thing - but I also like the conventional front engine layout and have learned to like (and drive) a rear-engined car as well. As you well know, the limitation with brisk driving is very often the nut behind the wheel, as opposed to where the engine is positioned in the car.

Regardless, the original question was:

@DannyP posted:

Why would anyone go through all this work and NOT build it mid-engine? Makes no sense to me.

I can answer that. The question makes no sense to you because you already fit in a Spyder. Building a "Spyder-like" car in a rear-engine configuration for those who can't fit in a 550 makes perfect sense to me, and is something I'd really like to see.

Your mileage may (and clearly does) vary.

Danny, I am honored.

I have come to love my Cayman for several reasons. On a couple of occasions when I  went to the grocery and popped the frunk and the trunk and began loading them some folks walked over and asked where the engine was or if I was driving a pedal car.

I told them it was a pedal car and pointed to my sculpted calves and thighs as evidence of the health benefits of owning one.

I’ll ask Tanner about the mid-engined thing when I talk to him.

Stan, two things: The 550 was a race car. Rear engine isn’t even in the same universe as mid/engined in terms of handling. Styling wasn’t a primary concern in the design of the 550. Handling,  lightness, and aerodynamics (such as they were pre-wind tunnel/CAD were)  Porsche and Colin Chapman pretty much changed the racing world with their mid-engined designs. It’s one reason the 550’s were dubbed “Giant Killers” when the debuted. That they somehow designed one of the most beautiful open cars in history was quite by accident.

Other than NASCAR and production car racing, there has exactly one race car in the last 60 years that wasn’t mid-engined, and it had very little success. (Panoz prototype car)  

Point two, thanks to diet and exercise, humans are ~6” taller today than they were in 1950. Having just survived WWII, most people, especially Germans,  were a lot shorter than they are today.

@Lane Anderson

https://m.facebook.com/specterdesign/

FWIW, three other of what I consider the top ten most beautiful cars in the world… all mid-engined.