It's getting COLD...I need some heat!

It's that time of year again when we start to think about heat in our speedsters.....at least those of us who don't have heater boxes installed or those wonderful gas heaters. My question is...has anyone found a good source of electric heat for there speedster? What about the ceramic 12 volts heaters? Does anyone have one of these?....Do those things really work? Last year I bought a cheep $20.00 electric unit that they said would defrost your windows and give you some nice warm heat, So I get it just to see what it would do.....wasted my money..it was a joke! I need cheep alternative heat. It does'nt really get that cold here in Kentucky so I really don't need a blow torch furnace , just some good decent heat. thanks, Michael

Michael, how about a good warm coat....that's about the cheapest heat you will find I'm sure......or
MOVE TO A WARMER CLIMATE.....

Thanks Vince....Somehow I new I was going to get a response from you. I guess I set myself up for that one!

If you don't have hot water heat, a gas heater seems to be the only way to stay toasty warm. I will follow this thread, however, since sweet bride's VW has no heater boxes. Vince's warm coat looks like the best solution unless somebody comes up with something better. It can be frosty in the morning here and I'm all ears for alternate solutions.

I know this has been talked about before...

I've got an electric heater in mine. This heater puts out about 650 watts I think and I bought it for about $200 years ago from an outfit in NY. You'll need to have at least 60 amps (do the math...can't recall exactly) to keep this working and I use a small meter plugged into the cig lighter to monitor the charging system and battery.

This unit has three power wires that hook up to the positive terminal of the battery and there's a 20 amp fuse in each wire lead ... this is not one of those deals that plug into your cig lighter. They can not possibly pull the current you need to produce real heat.

If its just the windshield defrost then consider an electric "demister" as the Brits call it. I've seen these for sale in the British classic car mags. Its a bar like thing with an electric element on the side facing the windshield and suction cups to hold it on. I'll see if I can't find the supplier...

Brian

Vince, Could I possibly borrow a coat from you until I can figure this one out?

Sorry dude, I live in Sunny So. Cal. only coat I have is a trench coat.....if you know what I mean....

Brian , Do you know what manufactuer made your electric heater? Is it your only source of heat? Thanks, Mike

Yes I know but I checked a while back and they're not in business anymore. It was Instaheat I believe. They used to advertise in the VW mags back in the late 80's when I bought the thing. I got it to supplement the heat in my deisel MB as it gets too cold here for the regular heat in the MB to do the job. You might check the advertisers in a current VW mag to see if there's something else.

To tell you the truth I think that anyone with some electrical knowledge would be able to make this thing. Its a tube with a 12 v fan in it and an electrical element like any 110v electrical heater coiled up in it. The thing would be to work out the math to ensure that the entire system was safe with adequate wiring, fusing and switches. Such a unit will draw a lot of 12v DC current and that sort of thing can lead to nasty fires. The switch on this unit actually operates a relay switch within the unit as a normal on/off switch could not handle the current.

Its my only source of heat but I only drive it in the summer here. I have driven it in the winter at minus 30 degrees and this heater would only clear the windshield a bit....it definitely could not heat the interior of the car at minus 30. I wore a parka, hat and mitts that day!

There are a lot of heaters out there. Look on Ebay Germany and you'll find quite a few different types and makes.

Michael, You may want to check out the web site for "coleman" camping. They make several propane fueled heaters. I don't know if those would be adequate but worth a look. They are not too expensive either.TOM

I went through all of this with my JPS, and it's a big part of why I decided to have my new car built. There will be dispute on some of this, so just keep in mind that this is my opinion, not the opinion of the staff or management.

The first order of business is to try to stay warm by not continually cooling the cabin with outside air. This is no easy proposition. A pan based speedster leaks air everywhere- from the windshield/ side curtain seal (?), but also from around the door seals (bad leaks), from behind the side curtains at the side curtain/ top juncture, from the bonnet hinges, from the header bow/ windshield frame joint, and most insidiously from the juncture of the sub-frame and the pan below the parcel tray, behind the front seats. I posted an article in the

Here's an idea that will keep Stan up ANOTHER all-nighter thinking about... sheesh do you get ANY sleep coming up with these ideas? Like Einstein, you're figuring out 1000 ways it won't work, but only takes one to be, well, Einstein.

How about using the doghouse cooler exhaust air, tap it into the heater ducts with a Y fitting (heater box valve?) so there's a waste gate (always full-flow air through the cooler) and grab some of that air blowing past that 200 degree radiator?

Maybe it's been done; successfully or not. I can't be the first guy to think about this in this group of sleepless geniuses. Anyone?

Webasto makes gas and deisel both hot air and coolant heaters and they're available in the US and Canada. They have websites in both English and German, etc.

If you go to Ebay Germany you can find quite a few for sale at any time (search Webasto)...both new and used. Airtop is the model that warms the air and the other model (can't recall the name...Thermotop??) is the one that heats the coolant.

With the current drop in the Euro vs Cdn$ it may be worthwhile. I've ordered stuff from there before and have had no problems. You can type "translation" into Google and there will be a free site where you can cut and paste the German text out of the Ebay ads and get a reasonable translation.

The coolant one sounds interesting as you can pick up full bolt in climate systems (seen them on the rodding shows) and then just run the coolant hoses into that with an expansion chamber too probably.

It would be a bit of work but it could be unique and work quite well.

Brian

In hot vw's (mag.) for years there is a company (or build one up yourself) that reroutes
an external oil cooler into the "cabin" and has a blower that distributes the heat. Cheap and
easy. Give me an old bn2 any time. they're great. And you can draw air from the car
interior, reheat and send it back in. Personally I wouldn't mount it above my knees, trunk
or the dead area behind the parcel tray would be my choice.

Michael,

I put an electric heater in my car when I went to the 1-5/8" header. I have a 75 amp alternator and I went with a heater that is hard-wired (directly to the battery).
It doesn't work as well as a gas heater, but it's no worse than what I got from my old heater boxes.
If your interested I'll look up the manufacturer. I think I paid about $40.00 for it.

BTW, I have a nearly new set of heater boxes as well as my old exhaust if anybody is interested.

Bruce, The Idea of the oil cooler/heater system is interesting...are those still available? Michael

Terry, What does your electric heater look like and where is it located in your car. Could you give me some more info...brand name, watts etc. This seems to maybe be the quickest fix.....if there is one out there that puts out decent heat and will work with my present electrical system....are you satisfied with this system for now or are you making plans for something better? thanks, michael

Here's a pic of one of those creen demisters I mentioned. Currently going for 2 PS on Ebay.uk

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LUCAS-DEMISTER-DEFROSTER-FITTED-AS-EXTRA_W0QQitemZ4585720739QQcategoryZ116511QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

yes, take a look in the mag

I mounted the heater on the passenger side behind the metal sub chassis. Here is the link to the heater.

I consider this a temporary fix until I find something better.

http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/12dihocehe.html

Terry, I've noticed this same heater on e-bay and a few other places on line...but they never seem to give any info on how many watts it is or btu's. Do you know? Does it put out heat like a hair dryer or better? How does it effect your electrical system....any problems? I'm sure I'm not the only guy trying to find a decent fix for the heating problem. Thanks for sharing and letting us all know. thanks, Michael

I wouldn't consider any type of electric heat unless you have at least a 75 Amp alternator. I like the idea of the heated seat kits -- but they don't do a thing for the frosted over windshield.

Michael
The web site for this unit lists it being fused at 15 amps.
Sooo, the the max it could be at the fused rating would be 180 watts or 614 btu's at 12 volts, or 210 watts and 716 btu's at 14 volts with the engine running. Hair dryers (AC) are around 1400 btu's.
Or somewhere close to there - HTH
Bill

The heater Terry linked draws 15a or 180 watts. If it put out heat like a hair drier, everybody would be delighted. A hair drier typically puts out about 1500 watts of heat (conservatively). That's 1.5 KW, or 125 amps with a 12v system.

An rudamentary explanation of part of Ohm's law would help here. The equation needed is Watts= Volts x Amps. A hair drier puts out about 1500 watts without using welding cable because it runs on 120v, and therefore only draws a bit over 12 amps. The same hair drier in your car is only running on 12 v, so therefore needs 125 amps to give the same amount of heat. Transformers to convert 12v DC to 120v A/C are everywhere, but are typically nowhere near big enough for a resistive load (like a heating element).

Since a car isn't hooked to a power grid, and our cars don't typically have a 150a alternator (although SoCal does now have a 95a alternator avaialable for $250), I'm getting back to why electric heat really isn't a very good option for a cold climate. If something plugs into your cigarette lighter, it can only draw 30a max (assuming you have #10 wire running to it, which you likely do not). 30a @ 12 v is 360 watts (twice what the linked heater has). Even that is not much heat if cold air is pouring into the vehicle from little cracks everywhere.

I'm not discouraging anybody from trying whatever they think will work. This electric heater works for Terry, because he lives in California. Cold there is different than cold here. Cold here is different than Brian P in Yellowknife. It's all a matter of degree.

Good luck.

For reference, an average adult human body awake at rest throws about 300- 400 btus/hr of heat.

Thanks Stan for taking me to school....I now understand....Guess I'll scratch that idea off the list. You've been very helpfull! Guess I'm going to have to get realistic and spend some.....money. I don't feel comfortable with an old used espar heater.....does anyone sell a gas heater new at a reasonable price? Any other suggestions? thanks, Michael

Stan's right. That heater I have uses 3 20 amp fuses so it puts out about 700 watts. That will barely take the chill off at zero degrees so I have it hooked to put all that immense power straight at the windshield for defrosting purposes. I wear a hat, gloves and a warm coat....just as God intended when driving a roadster.

Has anybody tried using the coleman black cat small portable catalytic propane heater or something simular to heat their speedster?.....Is anybody using a propane set up.....if so let us know how it worked out.

I have the Coleman propane heater for my boat and I must say that thing ROCKS! I have the one with the little D-battery fan and attach a disposable bottle. With all the air leaks in the Speedster I don't think fresh air would be a problem. It's made for use in a tent, and they spell out exactly how much fresh air you need. It's a great unit - push-button start and the fan tosses the heat well. I checked out a few others and this is the best. One of these facing forward in the back seat would sure keep your ears toasty. Not much to look at, but you can ditch the thing when summer comes.

The Black Cat without the fan isn't much good. You need to move the air around the heating element to get warmth everywhere.

Safety-wise, you're looking for a nasty surface burn if the thing goes flying in a turn or a bump, which could lead to bigger problems depending on your speed at the time. The unit is great, but I wouldn't recommend it in the car unless you really thought it out for a safe solution.

Jarco

I used to use a Coleman Catalytic heater (actually still have it) in a '72 VW bus when we went skiing. Really worked well until someone placed their goose down parka on it at a rest stop! Had to drive with windows down the next two hours --- nothing worse that burnt feathers! I think a 30 year old reconditioned Ebersparcher gas heater is probably safer!

I guess I must be used to the cold, being from the midwest. I just put the top up and the sidecurtains on, put on heavy gloves, a sturdy pair of gloves and a stocking cap. No problem with that recipe. After some distance and the feeble heater blowing warm air, I finally start shedding some of the clothing, works fine for me. The only thing that is frustrating is the defrosters are next to worthless but if I direct some of the outside air from the leaky sidecutains onto the windshield, it clears the inside window! Rainex on the outside surface of the windshield is a good idea also.

I bought the Coleman deal with the fan for my JPS, and I never used it in the car (although it was great in a tent). It's big, and "tipsy", and unless you secure it to the floor, you'll make a lot of heat in a hurry (by lighting your passenger seat on fire).

There aren't any good short-cuts. Staying warm means paying some money, or parking the car.