Jake Raby Subaru meets Beck Speedster

Your description almost sounds as if the clutch is not fully disengaging.  If you have a cable clutch, it could be as simple as adjusting the big wing nut.

 

I also has some steering issues when I got my car.  The solutions were:

1. Ensure that you don't have the rear of the car sitting up too high relative to the front as that ruins the castor angle, reducing stability.
2. make absolutely sure that the screw in the arm on the steering box is as tight as possible.  A tiny pit of play there wrecks havoc on the steering as it allows there to be a small bit of disconnect.  To tighten it adequately will require a very long wrench or breaker bar.  A regular wrench may feel tight, but isn't.  Several of us have run into to this.
3. Follow the instructions in the Muir book or some other VW repair manual to adjust the steering box.  That's an occasional maintenance issue.

I've got a Vintage Speed shifter. There's nothing wrong with mine. Perhaps you have an issue elsewhere?

re shifter:  Its a hydraulic clutch.   Also, I am able to get into the gears while the engine is off....feels same as when engine is on....that is same unsmooth entry into gear plus intermittent difficulty into first.

 

re transmission: when idling in neutral, yes the noise reduces dramatically when I depress  the clutch

 

re steering:  thanks Lane....I will look that one up and try that as a fix

 

Stan....I don't know what to tell you... 

If the noise goes away with the clutch depressed, it may be the throw-out bearing.

I'm afraid you may be right, it explains all including why its getting harder to get it into gear ....not a home fix....looks like I may be visiting our local VW expert..

Would you suggest I stop driving until I get this looked at?

I don't know but if there's noise coming from the transmission bellhousing area without depressing the clutch it would point me to possibly a bad pilot bearing. 

 

In my experience a bad throwout bearing will make noise when the clutch pedal is pressed in, when the throwout bearing is forced to engage the rotating pressure plate.  Sometimes you can even feel a bad throwout bearing through the pedal.

 

Just my thoughts.

much of the noise definitely goes away when in neutral and the clutch is depressed.  also don't think its in the housing.  thanks for your thought.  will  work this one through.  just don't want to get stuck due to not getting into gear while cruising this weekend

I'd call Carey and get his thoughts. He built it, knows it and should be the person to help diagnose it.

 

I hate it when other people try to help my customers when they have an engine gripe. Even though they are trying to help and just lend a hand, they seldom do more than confuse the issues and complicate things.

 

You hate it when other people try to help YOUR customers when they have an engine gripe,... ie problem?

 

I thought that was what this SOC forum was all about.

Don't get me wrong.. Help can be very good for simple issues but there are times when the only person who understands the dynamics of the issue is the person/ people who created the beast.

A reader of this thread has received "help" that required his car to be shipped back to me because of "help" that created more issues.

It's more of an issue for my engines because they are often configured differently than others that people have more experience with.

As a creator I always want to help first. This is even more so with a fresh build that has some teething issues.

thanks for all the helpful advise.  the car overall runs very nicely and I'm fully confident.  I really really pushed her today to make sure.  I may well have taken 5000 miles off the tires but now I know how she handles.  I like to drive hard and make sure I know the cars limits.  But....I'm no genius on the mechanical side.   yes we have some minor issues which will get quickly resolved.  Hey, even the most beautiful and sexiest women in the world has a blemish or two  .....it's part of the fun

Ahem......Welcome to the Madness! 

Todd - An easy check with a hydraulic clutch is at the slave cylinder and release arm.  Make sure that there is about 3/16" of play in the release arm.  Too little, and you risk wear on the release bearing.  Too much, and you may not get full disengagement.  It's a quick way to eliminate one variable and very easy to fix - a lot easier than pulling the engine.  Check the simple things first.

Tom,

Yes, let's get you into Bruce's shop for a few adjustments.
Your clutch noise and your shifter are unrelated in this case.
Your clutch is over adjusted slightly and the throw out is touching the pressure plate slightly at all times. Tha is why you hear that noise, it is the throw out fluttering against the pressure plate centering ring.
One turn (or so) out on the adjuster nut should kill the noise.

Shifter: please note that the Vintage Speed shifter adjusts completely different than a stock VW. In addition to having the top plate that slides around to adjust, the reverse lockout plate is slotted and is designed to adjust as well. And they do not capture each other like a stock VW does, so both adjustments are required. There are spots in each side if the shifter to get the blade of a flathead screwdriver under and shift the bottom plate (lockout plate) as well. It naturally wants to sit centered, which makes 1st and 2nd line up slightly inboard of riding the lockout plate. The more pressure you put to the left, trying to find 1st and 2nd, the worse it gets, and if it is enough pressure to move the plate, it'll get really tough. Properly adjusted I could find all 4 gears and reverse with 2 fingers and even had Mike shoot a short video of this because I knew you were having trouble with it in Carlisle. It is about feel and not force, but once the plate is off of alignment it can really be a hunt.
Unfortunately, if it is adjusted like a normal VW shifter, you are actually moving the top plate further in the wrong direction because the lockout plate doesn't slide with the top plate, and this will make shifting worse. If any of this is unclear I left the adjustment instructions from Vintage Speed in with your paperwork. That said, I understood the instructions because I understand the geometry of the shifter intimately, an it is easy to mid adjust, making it worse. Just have Bruce call me and I'll make sure he understands how this shifter works. Furthermore, if you decide you want to try a CSP or stock just let me know and I'll send one off.

Steering: let's have Bruce check the play in the steering box. He can check the Pitman too but I personally triple check Pitman torque since it takes a great deal more than VW spec to seat these new Pitman arms.
Glad you are having fun!
I am out on the lake qith the family until Monday but you have my private cell if you need it.

I'm not worthy.  This underlines Jakes's point about going to the expert first.

Thanks Carey....I plan to give Bruce a call and try to see him during next week.  Frankly I was hesitant to bring these little annoyances up into the forum afraid that it may give the wrong impression.  I would not have believed all my posts if it were all just good.  To be clear...this car is great, the engine runs flawlessly and I haven't had this much fun driving in at least 40 years.  We often drive down to the Keys for lunch or dinner.....just making sure all is well sorted as I plan to make the next little Keys for lunch excursion with the Beck. 

UPDATE - On Cary's advice I drove the car to Stratton Motorsports in Orlando ..... about 250 miles door to door fearing the worst...i.e. new transmission...... but hoping for the best.  Bottom line they adjusted the clutch and transmission which fixed the shifting to where I think it should be.  There was also a bushing in the steering linkage that was damaged which in turn fixed the steering.  Finally a minor adjustment to the brakes and we were good to go.    Picked her up this AM for the 250 mile drive home.  I was prompty babtized with one of those well known Florida downpours where the raindrops seemed the size of golf balls.  I never knew trucks threw off that much water driving in a downpour.   I'll be picking up a roll of blue painters tape this weekend.  Drove her 75 - 85 mph all the way back on the turnpike and the engine just purred all the way.   

See, even a drive to the repair shop is a great adventure! Glad your car got sorted out and you got home safely, Tom! 

That is awesome news Tom 

Tom, How is the Speedster running after its first summer of use? 

Hi Jake....Everything runs great except the hydraulic clutch.  When a car does not shift right, it can take a lot of the fun out of it.   I had to take the car back to an Orlando mechanic in early Sep to rework the hydraulics.  It seems the master and/or slave cylinder had some major defects.  Unfortunately the replacement  cylinders we ordered were also defective right out of the box.  We're getting another brand .... more heavy duty ti install.  I have not been in a hurry to get the car back as the Mechanic (shop owner) had some family priorities to care of and it's been raining every day here in Florida.  The weather has turned for the better and I'll be heading up to Orlando to pick her up this coming week.  In south Florida, driving season is just beginning.   That being said, the engine has run flawlessly be it on the highways or on some of our short cruises through the everglades.  I can't wait till she also shifts flawlessly.   and Jake....the sound may yet be the best part of the build.  I'll post some pics and try my hand at videos later this year.

Tom,

I bet these are CNC manufactured parts. With my conversions I found that the ONLY way to go was with Tilton components.

 

The other key was using high temperature DOT4 fluid and the best I found was from Pentosin. I also utilized Aeroquip thermal insulating sleeve (the expensive orange sleeve) to insulate the slave and the line leading to it from heat. Doing this made the system work flawlessly through temperature changes, if the system works better cold that hot, or better hot than cold, then you have some thermally impacted issue.

 

The Tilton products and Pentosin fluid are the key, hands down.

 

Glad to hear that my part has been flawless and is keeping you happy.

Thanks much....I will pass this to my mechanic and try to get this done as you outlined

Do you have a VW transaxle?  If so, conversion back to cable is a possibility.  After I had a master cylinder failure (I was trying an unconventional installation), I decided to switch back, and have had no problems.  The access panel under the car makes it an easier swap then on a pan-based car.  My original intent was to go back to hydraulic at some point with an installation similar to yours.  It's working so well right now that I will probably stick with what I have.

yes.......its a VW transaxel.   initially the intent was to convert to cable however the experts  i.e. Carey and the mechanic in Orlando decided to keep it as hydraulic.  the tubing is being changed to metal and the clutch cylinders upgraded......we'll see...  

If that doesn't work, fly me down to Weston and I'll switch you back to cable.  Should take an afternoon and a few beers.

booked....

Time to update this thread.  I finally picked the car up on November
15th after having its third or maybe even fourth different hydraulic
clutch installed.  I must admit, I was not confident.  In fact, I had
lost much of my enthusiasm.   After the first five months I had only
driven about 700 miles beyond the 500 miles she had on her when we took
her off the truck..... total about 1200 miles.  Yes, at times my drives
where great but only for a short time until the next shifting failure.  
However..... as of yesterday....Dec 15 ..... one month later, I've
logged about 1000 more miles.  Now with a working clutch I can finally
"appreciate" ... or should I say... understand...  what Jake Raby and
Carey Hines have built.   I can now really feel how powerful and smooth
the acceleration is all the way up through the gears.  And how do I
describe the sound....it's something between Porsche and Race Car....
loud enough to get the juices going but not so load that you soon tire
of it.    Maybe I'm just getting used to the car or she has settled in
as I now feel quite safe at 85 - 90 MPH on a Florida highway.  The
engine seems to just purr at that speed.   And...when I can find some
twists here in Florida ... she handles super tight and fun with the
added benefit of building some arm muscles.   My only regret is all the
driving I missed since mid-June because of these poorly manufactured
clutches.   So....when are one of you knuckle heads coming down to sunny
Florida and visit me....I need one of you to drive this car and attest
to what I have been saying so I can stop sounding like a bloody shill.

No worries, Tom, shill on!  It's always way more fun talking about how things are going superbly. 

Glad to know you're finally getting the full effect of the awesome car you have, Tom!! 

 

I can just picture your smiling faces as you're cruising around Florida in that bad-boy...

 

 

    ....well, maybe not with a couple of drinks in your hands!! 

That's great to hear, Tom!  Glad you can now enjoy that gorgeous car without worry.

Tom,

Those gripes with shifting and etc had to be a real fun killer for you. Nothing worse than teething problems with a fresh car to kill the spirits.

 

Glad to see that the engine has been the flawless part :-)

Jake

After Tom's initial hydraulic clutch system failure, and 2 BRAND NEW CNC units sent to Tom that were defective right out of the box, we have dumped them as a supplier.

We are currently testing both Tilton and Wilwood units, and both have performed flawlessly so far.

Tom, glad to hear you are out and having fun!

Tilton solved my problems completely. CNC is pure junk.

On a totally different subject - Jake, what the hell is your avatar a picture of?  I can't quite make it out. 

Thats a 375 pound wild boar.. With the spent Smith And Wesson 500 Magnum pistol cartridge that took him out in his teeth :-)

 

He's my mascot :-) He "hangs out" in my office everyday! 

 

Wild boar, huh?  I think I work with a couple of those.

 

Hey, we're getting a big crowd from all over coming to Carlisle this year.  Consider this my annual "When are you coming?"  One of these days I'd like to meet you since we're (almost) neighbors.

That time of the spring is always insane for me, and this year will be even more as we are already booked solid till December of 2014.

 

With my book release in May I'll probably be somewhere dealing with something to do with that, too. Its always something, I prefer to stay atop my mountain and let the rest of the world pass me by :-)

Well maybe one of these days I'll make the pilgrimage up the mountain to see the guru and ask about the meaning of life, horsepower versus torque, etc.