This is becomming a familiar story that has been talked about on this forum before. See below:
http://speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=2575
I have believed that John builds a good 356 replica and the examples that I have seen are great looking cars. It's unfortunate that what appears to be a fine product does not always measure up in the real world and that the level of service falls short of what seem to be reasonable expectations.
Good catch, John. Forgot about that fiasco. Deja Vu.
~WB
~WB
Wow....Deja Vu all over again.
Looks like we forget the past too quickly around here.
Looks like we forget the past too quickly around here.
Tom,
There's really nothing on your list that can't be remedied in fairly short order. (Even re-ringing the pistons or swapping out the P&Cs if required can be done in less than a working day.) I wish that you had posted earlier; Todd was at Carlisle with the tow rig looking for a project car, he could have brought your car on home with him.
IF you decide to cut the tether with JPS and have the work done here on the East Coast (most likely on your dime) I can offer you a VERY good deal, and have you up and running in not too long a time at all.
The BIG advantage here is that I promise NOT to let Gordon sneak by and test drive your ride after each problem is corrected.
Just letting you know.
Luck, and more luck.
TC
There's really nothing on your list that can't be remedied in fairly short order. (Even re-ringing the pistons or swapping out the P&Cs if required can be done in less than a working day.) I wish that you had posted earlier; Todd was at Carlisle with the tow rig looking for a project car, he could have brought your car on home with him.
IF you decide to cut the tether with JPS and have the work done here on the East Coast (most likely on your dime) I can offer you a VERY good deal, and have you up and running in not too long a time at all.
The BIG advantage here is that I promise NOT to let Gordon sneak by and test drive your ride after each problem is corrected.
Just letting you know.
Luck, and more luck.
TC
In response to Vince's comments- yeah, most Speedsters leak- but a coupe gives up a lot of the best parts of a Speedster for one thing- weather protection. A leaky coupe has as much practical value as the cardboard submarines they used to advertise in the back of "Mechanix Illustrated".
Without looking at the car- I'd bet that the bulk of the water is coming from the junction between the frame and subframe behind the back seats. At the minimum, Tom will need to pull up the carpet- at the maximum, the transaxle will need to come out. I'd buy the best rolled roofing material available and plaster the entire joint on both sides, if it were me.
But air and water come in from about 100 other places on a JPS car. Sealing them all acceptably will be Tom's "white whale"- a quest that will take him to the boundary of sanity.
The weak-kneed 2332 isn't going to be a matter of a new P/C set, although that might clear up the bug-fogger problem. JPS sources engines from the lowest bidder- and there are a lot of bottom feeding Type 1 engine builders in SoCal. I'm sure the engine has some nice stuff that could be reused, but a total rebuild with some good heads and a decent exhaust is going to be on the agenda if Tom wants to run with the big dogs. I'm in the process of having such an engine put together- and can assure you that there is nothing cheap about a 200 h/p mill. Think "Jake Raby pricing", no matter who does it (Chico is doing mine).
The problem is- once you start adding all this stuff up, the total cost of the car goes through the roof. Options are what John Steele uses to differentiate himself from Vintage Speedsters, but his non-cosmetic options are always woeful. John Steel is at his best when the option list is kept short.
If I was on a tight budget and didn't want to buy used- I'd order a Vintage Speedster, less engine, no options (except for the stayfast top, and a freeway flier). I'd order a nice 1914 or 2110 from a reputable builder and install it myself. In a couple of years, after the body was done shrinking, I'd get a good paint job. Along the way, I'd work on sealing up the car.
Tom's going to have to do all this stuff anyhow, and he paid a lot more than the price of a base car. Forewarned is forearmed.
Without looking at the car- I'd bet that the bulk of the water is coming from the junction between the frame and subframe behind the back seats. At the minimum, Tom will need to pull up the carpet- at the maximum, the transaxle will need to come out. I'd buy the best rolled roofing material available and plaster the entire joint on both sides, if it were me.
But air and water come in from about 100 other places on a JPS car. Sealing them all acceptably will be Tom's "white whale"- a quest that will take him to the boundary of sanity.
The weak-kneed 2332 isn't going to be a matter of a new P/C set, although that might clear up the bug-fogger problem. JPS sources engines from the lowest bidder- and there are a lot of bottom feeding Type 1 engine builders in SoCal. I'm sure the engine has some nice stuff that could be reused, but a total rebuild with some good heads and a decent exhaust is going to be on the agenda if Tom wants to run with the big dogs. I'm in the process of having such an engine put together- and can assure you that there is nothing cheap about a 200 h/p mill. Think "Jake Raby pricing", no matter who does it (Chico is doing mine).
The problem is- once you start adding all this stuff up, the total cost of the car goes through the roof. Options are what John Steele uses to differentiate himself from Vintage Speedsters, but his non-cosmetic options are always woeful. John Steel is at his best when the option list is kept short.
If I was on a tight budget and didn't want to buy used- I'd order a Vintage Speedster, less engine, no options (except for the stayfast top, and a freeway flier). I'd order a nice 1914 or 2110 from a reputable builder and install it myself. In a couple of years, after the body was done shrinking, I'd get a good paint job. Along the way, I'd work on sealing up the car.
Tom's going to have to do all this stuff anyhow, and he paid a lot more than the price of a base car. Forewarned is forearmed.
fyi, Chico's name isn't well received in the Spyder world. One of our members has gone through 4 of his engines. Apparently Chico admits that he had someone else build these engines
Larry-
I suppose we'll see.
I suppose we'll see.
Stan, hopefully, he's realized the error of his ways. Previously, his engines were top notch. Lets just hope you get a quality engine and don't have the problems that one of our Spyderclub members had.
Wow! What a horrible predicament.
Tom, sorry to hear of your situation. When picking a builder for my speedster, I really considered JPS. I'm glad now that I didn't have them build my car!
All I can say is...Thank's Kirk
Tom, sorry to hear of your situation. When picking a builder for my speedster, I really considered JPS. I'm glad now that I didn't have them build my car!
All I can say is...Thank's Kirk
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Stan:
So since the CMC kit I just picked up had been sitting in a garage for 20 years (!!!!), I guess it's done shrinking, ya think??
Just in case, though, I told Chris we would sit it outside in my Dad's back yard (we're storing it in his garage "for a while") for a week or so during the hottest part of the Summer
Nothing like a good, Solar, bake-in to bring out the warts!! ;>)
So since the CMC kit I just picked up had been sitting in a garage for 20 years (!!!!), I guess it's done shrinking, ya think??
Just in case, though, I told Chris we would sit it outside in my Dad's back yard (we're storing it in his garage "for a while") for a week or so during the hottest part of the Summer
Nothing like a good, Solar, bake-in to bring out the warts!! ;>)
Gordon, a 20 y/o body sounds just about perfect to me.
The body shrinkage issue is something that IMHO is really overlooked when guys are puzzling out the new/used conundrum. I'm at the point of thinking that a 5 y/o car in the color you want is a really good, economical decision to make. You can block the car to the moon, and not have to worry that it'll go "wavy" in 6 months. And because it's the "right" color, you don't need to worry about the jams and dash.
The body shrinkage issue is something that IMHO is really overlooked when guys are puzzling out the new/used conundrum. I'm at the point of thinking that a 5 y/o car in the color you want is a really good, economical decision to make. You can block the car to the moon, and not have to worry that it'll go "wavy" in 6 months. And because it's the "right" color, you don't need to worry about the jams and dash.
You can keep this thread going forever.
You can call in the sharks in suits.
You can pick and peck from now 'till doomsday.
JPS will continue to sell cars, hell, he has at least 5 coupe orders as we speak, not to mention speedster orders. VERY FEW OF JPS CUSTOMERS COME FROM THIS SITE INITIALLY.
For the most part, 90% of John's customers will be very pleased with their cars. Most of them will average less than 1,000 miles a year on their cars and spend most of their time waxing them and driving them to some local car show.
TC's right, Tom. Your issues can be remedied locally and reasonably.
I'm sure, by this point, you have lost any possibility of working it out with John as I'm sure he feels the same way about you.
If you can't cut some sort of deal with him, have the work done locally, make sure it's documented then sue him in court.
Otherwise, you must be a complete idiot if you think you're going to get him to agree to your demands.
Stan, I know you had your issues with JPS, but you did what you could, realized your needs went beyond the capabilities of JPS and pulled the trigger on an IM. You sold your JPS and moved on. Enough said.
I still have my JPS, John worked out some of the issues and I finished the job the way I wanted to. I still leak oil, I still take on water but at 20,000 hard-driven miles I'm still kickin' ass and lovin' my car.
And John Steele STILL helps me out when I need it. Again, to the best of his ability.
"Sometimes you just have to lower your standards" - Einstein to Henry Ford ;)
You can call in the sharks in suits.
You can pick and peck from now 'till doomsday.
JPS will continue to sell cars, hell, he has at least 5 coupe orders as we speak, not to mention speedster orders. VERY FEW OF JPS CUSTOMERS COME FROM THIS SITE INITIALLY.
For the most part, 90% of John's customers will be very pleased with their cars. Most of them will average less than 1,000 miles a year on their cars and spend most of their time waxing them and driving them to some local car show.
TC's right, Tom. Your issues can be remedied locally and reasonably.
I'm sure, by this point, you have lost any possibility of working it out with John as I'm sure he feels the same way about you.
If you can't cut some sort of deal with him, have the work done locally, make sure it's documented then sue him in court.
Otherwise, you must be a complete idiot if you think you're going to get him to agree to your demands.
Stan, I know you had your issues with JPS, but you did what you could, realized your needs went beyond the capabilities of JPS and pulled the trigger on an IM. You sold your JPS and moved on. Enough said.
I still have my JPS, John worked out some of the issues and I finished the job the way I wanted to. I still leak oil, I still take on water but at 20,000 hard-driven miles I'm still kickin' ass and lovin' my car.
And John Steele STILL helps me out when I need it. Again, to the best of his ability.
"Sometimes you just have to lower your standards" - Einstein to Henry Ford ;)
........"Sometimes you just have to lower your standards"....
I think not, Tom has been bent over and that, is the only real bottom line here.
Anyone here expects someone to follow through with what they say they will.
Tom has a legitimate list all which he should not have to address as an out of pocket expense. Personally speaking, I'm ok with this thread continuing as it will, over time but a dent in the JPS coffers by steering potential customers to other manufactures.
The best scenario would be for JPS to step up and do what's right.
I think not, Tom has been bent over and that, is the only real bottom line here.
Anyone here expects someone to follow through with what they say they will.
Tom has a legitimate list all which he should not have to address as an out of pocket expense. Personally speaking, I'm ok with this thread continuing as it will, over time but a dent in the JPS coffers by steering potential customers to other manufactures.
The best scenario would be for JPS to step up and do what's right.
Terry,
If you lived a few thousand miles from JPS, do you really think you would have gotten the same service on your car? Honestly?
I believe that is the sole problem here. JPS has the mentality of "out of site, out of mind". That seems to be extremely evident by the avoidance of the issue at Carlisle. Kind of a crappy way to do business, IMO.
If you lived a few thousand miles from JPS, do you really think you would have gotten the same service on your car? Honestly?
I believe that is the sole problem here. JPS has the mentality of "out of site, out of mind". That seems to be extremely evident by the avoidance of the issue at Carlisle. Kind of a crappy way to do business, IMO.
Alan,
I think you are wrong.
JPS
I think you are wrong.
JPS
"You can keep this thread going forever".
Until the builder steps up and resolves this matter I for one hope it goes as long as the issue remains unresolved. If it's forever---so be it.
To not show up for a meeting to resolve this issue----what the hell is that about??
"1,000 miles" ---Wonderful. I sure didn't buy my car to do 1,000 miles a year. A golf cart does that distance!! I can see the ads now "Buy our junk---you can go 1,000 miles a year!"
"5 coupe orders", how sad. Too bad they aren't aware of this site.
Tom is a friend and an active member of this site. Members here support what is right and are many not happy about how Tom is being treated.
I for one sugest that Tom select one of the stellar builders who are active on this site to take his car for 60 days and make the green lemon what it should have been in the first place. The original "builder" would of course pay the tab.
We all support our builders for continued help with our cars. How can this builder be supported given his "no show" stunt at Carlisle? Am I missing something?---Jack
Until the builder steps up and resolves this matter I for one hope it goes as long as the issue remains unresolved. If it's forever---so be it.
To not show up for a meeting to resolve this issue----what the hell is that about??
"1,000 miles" ---Wonderful. I sure didn't buy my car to do 1,000 miles a year. A golf cart does that distance!! I can see the ads now "Buy our junk---you can go 1,000 miles a year!"
"5 coupe orders", how sad. Too bad they aren't aware of this site.
Tom is a friend and an active member of this site. Members here support what is right and are many not happy about how Tom is being treated.
I for one sugest that Tom select one of the stellar builders who are active on this site to take his car for 60 days and make the green lemon what it should have been in the first place. The original "builder" would of course pay the tab.
We all support our builders for continued help with our cars. How can this builder be supported given his "no show" stunt at Carlisle? Am I missing something?---Jack
Jim,
I would say yes to your question.
I had many issues with my car. I asked questions here. I talked by phone and email with JPS.
Sometimes the conversations were heated, sometimes I knew I was getting the run around.
I had John work with three different local mechanics over the years.
Each one was satisfied with their conversations and arrangements with John.
I never threatened John with legal action or any kind of scare tactics.
I did come to the realization after a year or so that my expectations were more than JPS could deliver. At that point it became my car.
In the end, as in the beginning, I knew I probably would have been happier with an Intermeccanica. Henry is a friend and would have built a beautiful car for me.
Kirk Duncan and Carey Hines are also class acts and are far better at working with their customers.
But I chose JPS, I dealt with the issues and I am satisfied with where I am now.
I wonder how well the other builders would respond if threatened by legal action?
C'mon, you guys, you know this will all work out. Somehow, it will.
I would say yes to your question.
I had many issues with my car. I asked questions here. I talked by phone and email with JPS.
Sometimes the conversations were heated, sometimes I knew I was getting the run around.
I had John work with three different local mechanics over the years.
Each one was satisfied with their conversations and arrangements with John.
I never threatened John with legal action or any kind of scare tactics.
I did come to the realization after a year or so that my expectations were more than JPS could deliver. At that point it became my car.
In the end, as in the beginning, I knew I probably would have been happier with an Intermeccanica. Henry is a friend and would have built a beautiful car for me.
Kirk Duncan and Carey Hines are also class acts and are far better at working with their customers.
But I chose JPS, I dealt with the issues and I am satisfied with where I am now.
I wonder how well the other builders would respond if threatened by legal action?
C'mon, you guys, you know this will all work out. Somehow, it will.
I absolutely believe that John should step up and take care of things. After all, this is one of the cars he uses in his advertisements. Given the state of things, however, I believe that the best thing for Tom to do is to take the denizens of this site who have offered help up on their offers, and to get the car the way he wants it himself. That way he'll be able to enjoy the car in short order. Unfortunately some additional cost will be involved. Maybe he can work a deal out with John to cover some of it, and maybe not. At least he'll have the car - if he still wants it.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but become concerned when I'm reading that Tom should expect anything less than quality for his money. He PAID for a quality product and deserves such.
If John/JPS cannot deliver on that contracted sale, then Tom has the ability to take other avenues to get his car right. He can litigate or negotiate a settlement with JPS.
If I paid my money and had a wading pool in the drivers compartment, you better believe I'd be ticked too. And if promises of meetings and corrections have gone unanswered by JPS, then they should reap and I mean REAP the consequences.
You don't stiff clients and ignore scheduled meetings. Really bad form and obviously, JPS will hear about it through SOC and its' members.
If John/JPS cannot deliver on that contracted sale, then Tom has the ability to take other avenues to get his car right. He can litigate or negotiate a settlement with JPS.
If I paid my money and had a wading pool in the drivers compartment, you better believe I'd be ticked too. And if promises of meetings and corrections have gone unanswered by JPS, then they should reap and I mean REAP the consequences.
You don't stiff clients and ignore scheduled meetings. Really bad form and obviously, JPS will hear about it through SOC and its' members.
Me either, Dennis, no dog here, but I find it uncanny that those who think Tom should accept anything less than quality have JPS denoted under their name.
I for the most part was gonna steer clear of this, but I can't get over how a few can call ten other posters (and a noted builder) on this thread liars, not seeing what we have seen.
I spoke with John on the phone in the past and at Carlisle. He's the most personable guy to talk to who will take time out of his busy day to talk cars. But the problem is, some can't differentiate personable John from businessman John, who is apparently a bit different.
~WB
I for the most part was gonna steer clear of this, but I can't get over how a few can call ten other posters (and a noted builder) on this thread liars, not seeing what we have seen.
I spoke with John on the phone in the past and at Carlisle. He's the most personable guy to talk to who will take time out of his busy day to talk cars. But the problem is, some can't differentiate personable John from businessman John, who is apparently a bit different.
~WB
GERD, All I can tell you is the John Steele I know very personable, but is not supportive and is full of crap. He flat out lied to me when he said he would look at the car (twice) and help work out a resolution strategy. Based on my experience he does nothing unless he feels there is no other way out.
All I ever wanted was for JPS to help me make the car right. No leaks in the rain (it should be at least as dry as my Speedster), an engine with no MAJOR oil leaks. AC that works as advertised, and so on . . . What is unreasonable about that?
GERD, your experience as reported on this site was a big factor in my decision to go with JPS. I figured he was OK. In retrospect, I was clearly a fool to believe I would be treated as GERD has been treated and get a good quality product (that works) from JPS. I was an even bigger fool to believe John Steele was a business man interested in treating his customers, especially an early adopter of a new product, like he cares about them and the value they receive. And evidently he is also not a man that can be trusted to do what he says he would do. Call me old fashioned, but I believed he was a man of his word. MY BAD.
I can only conclude JPS is cheap and does not want to be responsible for the product he builds. I have said it before, and I think it bears repeating often: John Steele is no Carey Hines. How can anyone flat out lie to a customer like John has and still be supported? How can anyone expect to get value for their money when the company and the man behave this way?
Gerd, there is absolutely no excuse for not meeting with me and looking at the car. I could have done as he asked and driven a smoking & leaking iteration of the JPS Coupe into the main building in front of prospective clients and competitive builders. As a business owner myself, I did not think that was a way to get things done. I did not want to embarrass JPS. Now I am beginning to believe John wanted me to do so so he would have an excuse not to help me. If so I did not take the bait, and he just blew me off anyway.
Ask yourselves if this was your car and your treatment by JPS what would you do????
To all who have offered help - I am trying to formulate a strategy, a time table to get this done, and a budget for the expenses. Any assistance would be appreciated. Please PM me. Looks like I am on my own on this as JPS is not interested in any help other than me shipping it back at my expense. So much for a warranty.
Thanks.
One last thought - In today's economy, every sale counts. Maybe this won't hurt JPS in a significant way, but it has already cost him 2 or more sales. I am certainly no cheerleader for him. The shame of it is this could all have been avoided with a little accountability and concern for the customer. To quote a famous line: Stupid is as stupid does.
All I ever wanted was for JPS to help me make the car right. No leaks in the rain (it should be at least as dry as my Speedster), an engine with no MAJOR oil leaks. AC that works as advertised, and so on . . . What is unreasonable about that?
GERD, your experience as reported on this site was a big factor in my decision to go with JPS. I figured he was OK. In retrospect, I was clearly a fool to believe I would be treated as GERD has been treated and get a good quality product (that works) from JPS. I was an even bigger fool to believe John Steele was a business man interested in treating his customers, especially an early adopter of a new product, like he cares about them and the value they receive. And evidently he is also not a man that can be trusted to do what he says he would do. Call me old fashioned, but I believed he was a man of his word. MY BAD.
I can only conclude JPS is cheap and does not want to be responsible for the product he builds. I have said it before, and I think it bears repeating often: John Steele is no Carey Hines. How can anyone flat out lie to a customer like John has and still be supported? How can anyone expect to get value for their money when the company and the man behave this way?
Gerd, there is absolutely no excuse for not meeting with me and looking at the car. I could have done as he asked and driven a smoking & leaking iteration of the JPS Coupe into the main building in front of prospective clients and competitive builders. As a business owner myself, I did not think that was a way to get things done. I did not want to embarrass JPS. Now I am beginning to believe John wanted me to do so so he would have an excuse not to help me. If so I did not take the bait, and he just blew me off anyway.
Ask yourselves if this was your car and your treatment by JPS what would you do????
To all who have offered help - I am trying to formulate a strategy, a time table to get this done, and a budget for the expenses. Any assistance would be appreciated. Please PM me. Looks like I am on my own on this as JPS is not interested in any help other than me shipping it back at my expense. So much for a warranty.
Thanks.
One last thought - In today's economy, every sale counts. Maybe this won't hurt JPS in a significant way, but it has already cost him 2 or more sales. I am certainly no cheerleader for him. The shame of it is this could all have been avoided with a little accountability and concern for the customer. To quote a famous line: Stupid is as stupid does.
It seems to me the JPS owners who are happy with their cars should consider backing Tom rather than speaking against him. If you are on good terms with John than maybe you could speak with him to help him understand that these sorts of situations do not help the resale values of your own cars. Other manufacturers have run into similar situations and have successfully dealt with them to the satisfaction of their owners rather than letting the situation fester.
I've seen Tom's car and I think it has the potential to be the car of his dreams, he has certainly financially put everything into it to make it that. Owners/builders on this site who were at Carlisle have offered to help get him the coupe in order but that has the potential to void agreements with the builder. Much more could be said, I hope Tom will get to the point where he has the car he felt he was buying.
I've seen Tom's car and I think it has the potential to be the car of his dreams, he has certainly financially put everything into it to make it that. Owners/builders on this site who were at Carlisle have offered to help get him the coupe in order but that has the potential to void agreements with the builder. Much more could be said, I hope Tom will get to the point where he has the car he felt he was buying.
Part of my problem is I can't even get out of this without loosing my shirt. I can't sell it without disclosing the issues. Who here would be interested? It will take a significant discount to get it sold. So because I believed JPS could build and support a car in a reasonable way and was duped, I'm out quite a bit of money. I feel almost like I was scammed. Left with no choice but to throw more money at it.
Hey,
I own a JPS but I'm not here to support John.
He's an adult and he can defend himself.
I truly sympathize with you Tom and I wish you'd have received the car and the product support you were promised and paid for.
Hell, I wish I had all the money back that it's cost me over the years to fix things that should have been right the first time.
But, here you are. What are your choices?
If you fix the car and decide to sell it you shouldn't have a problem because the car will be free of problems and it still is a beautiful and rare replica. It'll sell.
However, after you get it to where you want it you might fall in love with it all over again and decide to keep it, like I did with mine.
I own a JPS but I'm not here to support John.
He's an adult and he can defend himself.
I truly sympathize with you Tom and I wish you'd have received the car and the product support you were promised and paid for.
Hell, I wish I had all the money back that it's cost me over the years to fix things that should have been right the first time.
But, here you are. What are your choices?
If you fix the car and decide to sell it you shouldn't have a problem because the car will be free of problems and it still is a beautiful and rare replica. It'll sell.
However, after you get it to where you want it you might fall in love with it all over again and decide to keep it, like I did with mine.
A happy customer is one that is SATISFIED with his purchase. Everyone has a different threshold and a good business man knows this and gives what needs to be done to make the customer satisfied. It seems that this did not happen. TSK-TSK, I guess this is a warning shot for those looking for a new Speedy!
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I agree with Terry.
It's kinda like a nasty divorce. Is it really worth it (time, money and aggravation) to quibble over visitation rights for the dog (or whatever property is severely polarizing the two parties).
As in that nasty divorce, no matter how determined you are to seek it, it's a no-win situation! Aside from needing closure, spitefulness, or 'it's-a-matter-of-principal', if you REALLY want to move on from a nasty relationship, cut bait and consider your 'loss' as the cost of doing business.
Your life will be better for it (ulcer-free) and you'll be that much the wiser.
Tom, you know there is a long line of great SOC guys chomping-at-the-bit to get their hands on your car to make it right. I know you really like the car (or at least what it represents), take that road to finally enjoy the car you seek.
Your SoCal buddy - the Pineapple-Headed/El Guapo/Moose-P/MUSBJIM!!
It's kinda like a nasty divorce. Is it really worth it (time, money and aggravation) to quibble over visitation rights for the dog (or whatever property is severely polarizing the two parties).
As in that nasty divorce, no matter how determined you are to seek it, it's a no-win situation! Aside from needing closure, spitefulness, or 'it's-a-matter-of-principal', if you REALLY want to move on from a nasty relationship, cut bait and consider your 'loss' as the cost of doing business.
Your life will be better for it (ulcer-free) and you'll be that much the wiser.
Tom, you know there is a long line of great SOC guys chomping-at-the-bit to get their hands on your car to make it right. I know you really like the car (or at least what it represents), take that road to finally enjoy the car you seek.
Your SoCal buddy - the Pineapple-Headed/El Guapo/Moose-P/MUSBJIM!!
I know John Steele. He built two Speedsters for me over the course of five years. Neither car was as perfect as I would have liked upon delivery because John's standards were different than mine.
It took me a long time to come to terms with that. I could not understand why he didn't care about my car (and every little detail that was bugging me) as much as I did.
Eventually, I found someone else to work on my car, someone whose business was fixing cars.
John Steele's business is building cars. He should build them so they don't need fixing, but in Tom's case he didn't. And now almost a year after delivery, Tom continues to have issues that he says John Steele will not address.
Tom - take the advice given here by many before me - forget John Steele and get your car fixed to your satisfaction locally.
Continuing to expect John Steele to help you seems to be an exercise in futility that will only make you crazy. Right or wrong, that's the way it is.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
It took me a long time to come to terms with that. I could not understand why he didn't care about my car (and every little detail that was bugging me) as much as I did.
Eventually, I found someone else to work on my car, someone whose business was fixing cars.
John Steele's business is building cars. He should build them so they don't need fixing, but in Tom's case he didn't. And now almost a year after delivery, Tom continues to have issues that he says John Steele will not address.
Tom - take the advice given here by many before me - forget John Steele and get your car fixed to your satisfaction locally.
Continuing to expect John Steele to help you seems to be an exercise in futility that will only make you crazy. Right or wrong, that's the way it is.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
Yo, John Leader, How are you dude? I have been wondering if you were lurking on this thread....I think both your speedys were in my top 5 all time, and knowing they were both done by JPS, I figured you had to be out there somewhere.....
Just wanted to say that I hope all is well for you and yours...
Just wanted to say that I hope all is well for you and yours...
Guys . . .
I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I need to fix it myself or sell it (which will require fixing it myself). It is very clear JPS is not willing to help voluntarily.
I just feel I want to make sure anyone contemplating dealing with JPS understands they will be on their own. I know I was warned to some extent, but not as clearly as I want to make it. I'm sure others tried to do the same in the past and I know at some point you just have to let it go.
Still, I plan to make a case for reimbursement when all is said and done. I think I have a very well documented case full of failed promises and misrepresentations as well as clear evidence that the product was grossly flawed and actually unsafe to drive when shipped to me. I have the parts to prove it. We'll see how I feel once I'm past this.
I keep hearing that my expectations are too high. If so, a Beck Speedster is the high water mark, and no one should expect a JPS to come close to a Beck. Since I have seen JPS cars that rival any other, I know JPS can build a nice car. He just chose to not do so for me. And does not care. JPS still sucks in my book.
Anyone interested in helping sort this baby out, please PM me hacksaw57 AT mac.com. Looks like the only way out. Maybe as suggested at Carlisle, we can have an "event".
Danny P.? TC? Alan? Rocky? Cory? Anyone out there want to tackle this project? I need to gather an estimate and put a budget together.
Thanks guys.
I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I need to fix it myself or sell it (which will require fixing it myself). It is very clear JPS is not willing to help voluntarily.
I just feel I want to make sure anyone contemplating dealing with JPS understands they will be on their own. I know I was warned to some extent, but not as clearly as I want to make it. I'm sure others tried to do the same in the past and I know at some point you just have to let it go.
Still, I plan to make a case for reimbursement when all is said and done. I think I have a very well documented case full of failed promises and misrepresentations as well as clear evidence that the product was grossly flawed and actually unsafe to drive when shipped to me. I have the parts to prove it. We'll see how I feel once I'm past this.
I keep hearing that my expectations are too high. If so, a Beck Speedster is the high water mark, and no one should expect a JPS to come close to a Beck. Since I have seen JPS cars that rival any other, I know JPS can build a nice car. He just chose to not do so for me. And does not care. JPS still sucks in my book.
Anyone interested in helping sort this baby out, please PM me hacksaw57 AT mac.com. Looks like the only way out. Maybe as suggested at Carlisle, we can have an "event".
Danny P.? TC? Alan? Rocky? Cory? Anyone out there want to tackle this project? I need to gather an estimate and put a budget together.
Thanks guys.
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Hey, I'm right down the road, too!
~WB
~WB
damm - i'd be in there like a dirty shift if you didnt live on the other side of north america.
These are not complicated cars, so fixing it - no matter what the issues are - shouldnt be a problem for a group of handy guys, a box of tools and a welder (if it comes to that).
These are not complicated cars, so fixing it - no matter what the issues are - shouldnt be a problem for a group of handy guys, a box of tools and a welder (if it comes to that).
Tom---buddy, you are now on the right track. That is one georgeous car and anyone who has ever seen it agrees. There are very bright folks on this site that easily can get that car into perfect shape.
Whatever you spend getting it 100% sorted our will be infinitely less dollars that the bath you will take selling it "as is". And you will end up with the wonderful car you first sought. It won't be a JPS afterwards---more like "Dewalt's SOC Special" and what is wrong with that?
Good luck, Tom. Get 'er done before the Dragon run!!---Jack
Whatever you spend getting it 100% sorted our will be infinitely less dollars that the bath you will take selling it "as is". And you will end up with the wonderful car you first sought. It won't be a JPS afterwards---more like "Dewalt's SOC Special" and what is wrong with that?
Good luck, Tom. Get 'er done before the Dragon run!!---Jack
Tom: Now you're hitting on all cylinders. Make it great and send the "appropriate" photo to John after it's done. Great folks create great cars and with the gang here at SOC, you're destined for one helluva ride. Best of luck!!
Hello! Now we're talkin'! Cory and I are IN!
We'll be singing the 1-4-3-2 song all the way to Easton-P-A!
We'll be singing the 1-4-3-2 song all the way to Easton-P-A!
"I need to gather an estimate and put a budget together."
You got me for free. Got some deadlines to take care of, but you won't need any budget for my help.
Other than the cost of a few materials at best and whatever your engine needs to bring it back to life, you shouldn't need any budget at all. Nothing on your list costs coin to fix, just time and a little know-how.
You got me for free. Got some deadlines to take care of, but you won't need any budget for my help.
Other than the cost of a few materials at best and whatever your engine needs to bring it back to life, you shouldn't need any budget at all. Nothing on your list costs coin to fix, just time and a little know-how.
Tom,
Just enlisted Rocky we "the S" team are in, I do have a lot going on in the coming weeks, I'll pm you to see where we are at time wise. best not to have crowd but a group that can produce 25 hrs of labor in 8 hours. One thing I can do in advance...I'll need a pic of the AC compressor bracket to fabricate a better design. ~Alan
Just enlisted Rocky we "the S" team are in, I do have a lot going on in the coming weeks, I'll pm you to see where we are at time wise. best not to have crowd but a group that can produce 25 hrs of labor in 8 hours. One thing I can do in advance...I'll need a pic of the AC compressor bracket to fabricate a better design. ~Alan
Hey Guys, When you finish the coupe, I have a house that needs painting....
Paint! That sounds like too much work!
That's the spirit, Tom. I mentioned to Alan earlier today that we built a home here in Maryand in 1983. The builder absolutely SUCKED so bad that I would call him every Saturday morning and pretty much yell at him on the phone for stuff he - once again - did not fix/finish during the week. Even took him to court and lost because his company was bankrupt and we couldn't sue him personally. I finally wrote him off at that point and began finishing/fixing stuff myself. We are still happily living in that house 25 years later.
Keep the faith, Tom. You have a few good people in line to help out, they've fixed most of these problems before and love helping out. We all want to see this Phoenix rise again.
Keep the faith, Tom. You have a few good people in line to help out, they've fixed most of these problems before and love helping out. We all want to see this Phoenix rise again.