Tom, you got me for free, just like TC. Hell, it will be fun to ride down on a nice day in my Spyder. Nothing like an excuse to drive! I am available June 13-14 and/or 27-28 for a possible 2nd visit. Also, when I don't have my two little ones, I could shoot down during the week by 4 or 4:30(I get out of work at 3)
I'm in too. I'm not much of a "wrench" but I can be that "Hey, hand me the 10mm socket." guy. Every little bit counts. Just let me know when and where.
Tom,
I have friends in Easton so it'll give me an excuse to visit them as well. (Rich Young of Young Dodge-Mazda-Volkswagen. If I'm not mistaken the dealership is pretty close to yours?)
Tom,
I have friends in Easton so it'll give me an excuse to visit them as well. (Rich Young of Young Dodge-Mazda-Volkswagen. If I'm not mistaken the dealership is pretty close to yours?)
Tom looks like Sat 6/28 would work for me ~Alan
Alan,
AC bracket photos should be in your e-mail
AC bracket photos should be in your e-mail
Rats!! This sounds like fun, and I'm too far away to come. I need to give back a little to all the folks who helped build mine.
OK, this sounds like an opportunity to answer one of the nagging questions from the college days of the 1960's. How many grown adults can fit into a Porsche 356A coupe? Seriously guys, I hope you can pull this off in grand fashion and get Tom on the road in the Green Coupe mechanically sound in 'bone dry' fashion. Unfortunately, the only thing I could do to help is make iced tea or lemonade for the breaks.
I'm seriously trying to find a hole in my schedule, I might be too late in the game to help, my crashed drive put me way, WAY, behind schedule ! ! ! I'm kinda hoping that, once all of the chimps finish making it worse, they'll bring the car on up to me and I'll make it right and correct their corrections . . .
I mean SOMEONE was suggesting roofing material jammed into the corners (rather than correctly re-fiberglassing the section) as a legit means of stopping the water leaks in the rear.
And Cory is planning on pop-riveting aluminum panels all over the engine compartment. That better not happen until a month or more after the corrections and a LOT of wet weather drivin', otherwise someone's gonna be drilling out pop rivets to get at the corners to pull out all of the roofing material to make the proper repairs in fiberglass . . . and I'll betcha that that someone is gonna be me.
As a word of caution here, if the car is questionable and the engine's leaking, the transaxle ought to be pulled as well. Easier to check and stop the water leaks WAY underneath with the trans out anyway, but why not double check the nose cone, forward mounts (German hopefully) side cover seal and CV joints/boots/bolts. They may be trashed or loose already. If the engine leaks, why not change out the main seal just to be sure. I wouldn't trust the torque on the flywheel anyway, and double check the wavy washers on the pressure plate, and . . .
It'll take more that a weekend, it's only time and energy and a few seals/gaskets/washers and such, but you all KNOW that you'll need to hit that sucker HARD. I wouldn't trust a bolt or cotter pin on it from front to rear.
As offered, if I can't get down there, just bring it up here, I'll set right what doesn't get done during the big thrashing.
No budget necessary, we'll roll it onto the lift and I'll call you in a short while to come pick it up, OR I'll bring it to Cory in New York, and he'll bring it to, and so on and so on . . . on down to PA.
Just saying, you REALLY ought to put a socket on every bolt on that car, I sure would if it were mine.
Luck,
TC
I mean SOMEONE was suggesting roofing material jammed into the corners (rather than correctly re-fiberglassing the section) as a legit means of stopping the water leaks in the rear.
And Cory is planning on pop-riveting aluminum panels all over the engine compartment. That better not happen until a month or more after the corrections and a LOT of wet weather drivin', otherwise someone's gonna be drilling out pop rivets to get at the corners to pull out all of the roofing material to make the proper repairs in fiberglass . . . and I'll betcha that that someone is gonna be me.
As a word of caution here, if the car is questionable and the engine's leaking, the transaxle ought to be pulled as well. Easier to check and stop the water leaks WAY underneath with the trans out anyway, but why not double check the nose cone, forward mounts (German hopefully) side cover seal and CV joints/boots/bolts. They may be trashed or loose already. If the engine leaks, why not change out the main seal just to be sure. I wouldn't trust the torque on the flywheel anyway, and double check the wavy washers on the pressure plate, and . . .
It'll take more that a weekend, it's only time and energy and a few seals/gaskets/washers and such, but you all KNOW that you'll need to hit that sucker HARD. I wouldn't trust a bolt or cotter pin on it from front to rear.
As offered, if I can't get down there, just bring it up here, I'll set right what doesn't get done during the big thrashing.
No budget necessary, we'll roll it onto the lift and I'll call you in a short while to come pick it up, OR I'll bring it to Cory in New York, and he'll bring it to, and so on and so on . . . on down to PA.
Just saying, you REALLY ought to put a socket on every bolt on that car, I sure would if it were mine.
Luck,
TC
Tom - I just read this whole thread. Sorry you're having such a bad time with your build. My first car was a VS and had many problems with it. Sometimes I think some of these builds are just lemons. Unlike your situation, Kirk fixed everything that was wrong. Even put a new engine in it. But it still wasn't what I wanted and sold it. But that's another story. So, I know how you feel about the car. I do think that you are doing the right thing by getting it fixed. Just one point I would like to make however, is that, I thought I read that John offered to fix everything you asked for. Yes, it was on his timeline, but still offered to fix it and ship it back. With that said, is it right to continue to hammer this guy? You know, there is always two sides to every story, but do I detect a little attitude here? It's true, like Terry, we are closer to our builders, and that probably has a lot to do with getting things fixed. It just sounds to me that John tried to meet you half way and you didn't accept that. I am sure you will, or whoever will, tell me where I am missing something.
en---let me help you---go back on the thread and re read the part about the "no show". Now it's past time to move on and forget about the past and the "who struck Willie."
I am thrilled and gratified to see how the folks on this site are stepping up to get this done for Tom. My hat is off to every one of you who are planning to pitch in and I am very proud to be associated with the bunch of crazies and "the madness".---Jack
I am thrilled and gratified to see how the folks on this site are stepping up to get this done for Tom. My hat is off to every one of you who are planning to pitch in and I am very proud to be associated with the bunch of crazies and "the madness".---Jack
ps---Tom , I am struck by the generousity of the folks here who are physically coming to your place to straighten that car out. Struck but not at all surprised. I wish I could also come to help but know I can only be helpful by staying the hell out of the way! I want to contribite in another way and ask that you get your address to me so I can send you $50.00 as my part of helping in this good work. Use it for parts, beer or whatever way that helps.
I expect that others will want to follow suit so publish the address here.
Good luck,Tom---you will have much more than a great car when this is resolved. ----Jack
VINCE
GET SOME POPCORN TOO
GET SOME POPCORN TOO
Hey, Vince: While you're up, grab me a beer, OK?
Man, am I late to this party. Have been on vacation for about five days, and real busy at work before and since. Parked the Red Barron in the garage after Carlisle, and there it sits since; no SOC either. After hearing how John blew off and bad-mouthed Tom, I was thinking maybe the gentleman in Tom was going to take a hike, and the more sordid details of the adventure on Coupe 2 would come to light. And so it has. I can really add nothing here besides my gradual understanding that John is the nicest guy to talk to, most of the time, but is a rather accomplished BSer. He envisions what can be done, and should be done, and will tell you what he thinks you want to hear, but has only limited resourrce/desire/ability to make it so. One wag observed that: You get the car that John knows how to make. Amen. Much is very good, a lot is less so, and there may be a haphazard approach to QC. I think he knows a lot about cars and engines, and he does like the business he is in. But what is that business? As some have said, it is selling dreams in the form of kit cars. And I confess the pitch was well tuned to my dream. He does emphasize price -- which is to say, keeping it down so more can afford. Dream and reality have drifted apart some in my case, and I'll not get in to all of that here. I observe (have been to the JPS shop twice) that John does not do much of the work himself, but rather works w/ a small staff in a small garage, where I'm guessing there is a lot of turn over. Stuff happens -- or doies not happen -- and he does not see. He answers the phone and e-mail constantly and spends less than five minutes at a time dealing with any particular problem. How he doses this, I am not certain. Some would say: poorly. Anyway, I have come around to understand that I will not be getting much more from John, and I have about given up believeing he will pitch in to help me out w/ this or that as it may arise. I do not have all the myriad issues Tom has had, but there have been some, and I think I am over the most of it. I have come to understand that even if something is wrong and that if it is JPS fault, I may be better off trying to fix it myself.
When I mentioned how much water came in after my first drive in a substantial rain, John told me how to fix this: don't drive in the rain. He was making a joke, but there was nevertheless something telling in the reply: he builds fairweather cars. at least the Speedsters. He went to make Coupes thinking it was a business area, and he could do it. More power to him. Trouble is, he did not really think very hard about the inherent expectation w/ a hardtop car: it will not leak. So too many of the techniques used to make fair-weatehr Speedstrers were used, and the result is here to see. Whether FG or roofing tar is used, it should be possible to fashion the business so it will not ship water inside. That seems the minumum, to me. Tom's engine smokes, and why this is so ought to be found and resolved. The A/C bracket business is really jack-leg and is clearly on John to fix right, I'd say. But the best appraoch is to not let him. Sounds like the "family" is going to gather 'round, and see what can be managed under the ol' shade tree. Big brain trust there, and not a few good mechanics, so favorable results should be expected.
Believe the JPS Coupe build is at around 12 or so. The one at the Carlisle show looked a lot better than #s 1 or 2, for sure. It is very telling that the early S/Ns, are on the market after only one year, and that Tom is contemplating the same. Sad but true. The Coupe dreams and the reality took opposite turns.
Man, am I late to this party. Have been on vacation for about five days, and real busy at work before and since. Parked the Red Barron in the garage after Carlisle, and there it sits since; no SOC either. After hearing how John blew off and bad-mouthed Tom, I was thinking maybe the gentleman in Tom was going to take a hike, and the more sordid details of the adventure on Coupe 2 would come to light. And so it has. I can really add nothing here besides my gradual understanding that John is the nicest guy to talk to, most of the time, but is a rather accomplished BSer. He envisions what can be done, and should be done, and will tell you what he thinks you want to hear, but has only limited resourrce/desire/ability to make it so. One wag observed that: You get the car that John knows how to make. Amen. Much is very good, a lot is less so, and there may be a haphazard approach to QC. I think he knows a lot about cars and engines, and he does like the business he is in. But what is that business? As some have said, it is selling dreams in the form of kit cars. And I confess the pitch was well tuned to my dream. He does emphasize price -- which is to say, keeping it down so more can afford. Dream and reality have drifted apart some in my case, and I'll not get in to all of that here. I observe (have been to the JPS shop twice) that John does not do much of the work himself, but rather works w/ a small staff in a small garage, where I'm guessing there is a lot of turn over. Stuff happens -- or doies not happen -- and he does not see. He answers the phone and e-mail constantly and spends less than five minutes at a time dealing with any particular problem. How he doses this, I am not certain. Some would say: poorly. Anyway, I have come around to understand that I will not be getting much more from John, and I have about given up believeing he will pitch in to help me out w/ this or that as it may arise. I do not have all the myriad issues Tom has had, but there have been some, and I think I am over the most of it. I have come to understand that even if something is wrong and that if it is JPS fault, I may be better off trying to fix it myself.
When I mentioned how much water came in after my first drive in a substantial rain, John told me how to fix this: don't drive in the rain. He was making a joke, but there was nevertheless something telling in the reply: he builds fairweather cars. at least the Speedsters. He went to make Coupes thinking it was a business area, and he could do it. More power to him. Trouble is, he did not really think very hard about the inherent expectation w/ a hardtop car: it will not leak. So too many of the techniques used to make fair-weatehr Speedstrers were used, and the result is here to see. Whether FG or roofing tar is used, it should be possible to fashion the business so it will not ship water inside. That seems the minumum, to me. Tom's engine smokes, and why this is so ought to be found and resolved. The A/C bracket business is really jack-leg and is clearly on John to fix right, I'd say. But the best appraoch is to not let him. Sounds like the "family" is going to gather 'round, and see what can be managed under the ol' shade tree. Big brain trust there, and not a few good mechanics, so favorable results should be expected.
Believe the JPS Coupe build is at around 12 or so. The one at the Carlisle show looked a lot better than #s 1 or 2, for sure. It is very telling that the early S/Ns, are on the market after only one year, and that Tom is contemplating the same. Sad but true. The Coupe dreams and the reality took opposite turns.
Mickey, Rich's dealership is at the same exit as my place. We are neighbors.
Warren, JPS would only ship it back at MY expense. More importantly he can't be trusted. It was sent back once already and he fixed next to nothing on my list and continuously points to the event as a great moment in JPS history. Better to move on and do it right (with the SOC gang) than expect a miracle to happen.
Warren, JPS would only ship it back at MY expense. More importantly he can't be trusted. It was sent back once already and he fixed next to nothing on my list and continuously points to the event as a great moment in JPS history. Better to move on and do it right (with the SOC gang) than expect a miracle to happen.
I never expected this kind of support. WOW!!!!
I knew at my first Carlisle that you all were a special bunch. But this shows me just how special. I have been around many groups of great people in my life. You all blow me away with all your generous offers of help. I can't possibly thank you all enough.
Best dates for me are:
6/13, 6/14 & 6/15
6/26, 6/27 & 6/28
7/11, 7/12 & 7/13
What dates work best for you volunteers?? Let me know.
Alan, I'm working on your suggestions. Wild Bill, I did not mean to skip you by any means. Danny thanks a bunch you too TC. And Cory and Teresa and all the others. You're incredible!
I knew at my first Carlisle that you all were a special bunch. But this shows me just how special. I have been around many groups of great people in my life. You all blow me away with all your generous offers of help. I can't possibly thank you all enough.
Best dates for me are:
6/13, 6/14 & 6/15
6/26, 6/27 & 6/28
7/11, 7/12 & 7/13
What dates work best for you volunteers?? Let me know.
Alan, I'm working on your suggestions. Wild Bill, I did not mean to skip you by any means. Danny thanks a bunch you too TC. And Cory and Teresa and all the others. You're incredible!
Tom, I'm no wrench but if you guys need a grunt worker or goffer, I can hop in my car and be there in 2 hours. You've been more than helpful at Carlisle in my Coupe decision.
The way you guys on the other coast are coming together is making me all weepy....
I'm thinking of flying my mechanic out to help you guys...
I'm thinking of flying my mechanic out to help you guys...
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Bob from Reading I'll bet your only an hour or so away I'm 40 minutes from Kutztown. Thanks for the offer. Much appreciated.
Jack/Tom - I certainly agree that it is time to move on. I said that before. I did go back and re-read the thread and what I still conclude, is that there are two sides to every story. I think there is a lot missing from the whole story here. But that's just my opinion. Again, I would say there is a very understandable attitude now, and that is the more reason to move on. But, I also think it is time to stop the JPS bashing. I am not a JPS fan or supporter. I just smell a bad rap here. I only mean that because we are only hearing one side of the story, and probably will never hear the other side. I doubt if John would even enter in to this conversation. I certainly wouldn't if I were him.
By the way, the below exerpt is copied from this thread:
"You may fly out if you wish at your expense and test the car how ever way you think and when you approve the repairs I will pay for return shipping."
John P. Steele
I do believe John says he will pay for return shipping, does he not?
I don't know why he was a no show in Carlise, could be a number of reasons, but that's really not the point. The point is that you have shown that John tried to make it good for you and you did not accept his offer. To continue to bad mouth him after that doesn't make sense to me.
By the way, the below exerpt is copied from this thread:
"You may fly out if you wish at your expense and test the car how ever way you think and when you approve the repairs I will pay for return shipping."
John P. Steele
I do believe John says he will pay for return shipping, does he not?
I don't know why he was a no show in Carlise, could be a number of reasons, but that's really not the point. The point is that you have shown that John tried to make it good for you and you did not accept his offer. To continue to bad mouth him after that doesn't make sense to me.
Warren:
You're right....there is always "the rest of the story" but these problems with John Steele go back DECADES and it's becoming clear that those who live close enough to check up on him frequently can get a decent car, but don't forget that Eddy Karydis' JPS car (Eddy lives along the West Coast) went up in flames on the way to Morro Bay after only a few weeks of his ownership.
I think we're trying to get the word out that, while it has been shown that JPS can build a decent car when John wants to, "Caveat Emptor" - the potential buyer is walking into a potentially tenuous deal.
Jim: Can I have a Guinness? Or maybe a scotch from Vince?
Tom:
I doubt that Chris and I will make it - Chris is still drying out from his rainy ride in your Speedster (he tells me that the roof leaks at whatever seam is right over the seat back) and we're all of 6 hours away. Almost commuting distance, but not quite) and at the current price of Diesel, "Son of Mighty Power Stroke" would be too expensive to haul all of our tools down there.
BUT IF WE DO...... Can we camp out in one of those big, spiffy RV's????
gn
You're right....there is always "the rest of the story" but these problems with John Steele go back DECADES and it's becoming clear that those who live close enough to check up on him frequently can get a decent car, but don't forget that Eddy Karydis' JPS car (Eddy lives along the West Coast) went up in flames on the way to Morro Bay after only a few weeks of his ownership.
I think we're trying to get the word out that, while it has been shown that JPS can build a decent car when John wants to, "Caveat Emptor" - the potential buyer is walking into a potentially tenuous deal.
Jim: Can I have a Guinness? Or maybe a scotch from Vince?
Tom:
I doubt that Chris and I will make it - Chris is still drying out from his rainy ride in your Speedster (he tells me that the roof leaks at whatever seam is right over the seat back) and we're all of 6 hours away. Almost commuting distance, but not quite) and at the current price of Diesel, "Son of Mighty Power Stroke" would be too expensive to haul all of our tools down there.
BUT IF WE DO...... Can we camp out in one of those big, spiffy RV's????
gn
Warren,
John only offered to pay for shipping one way. He offered to pay to return it to Tom after Tom pays to ship it to JPS.
Tom already returned it to JPS once.
John only offered to pay for shipping one way. He offered to pay to return it to Tom after Tom pays to ship it to JPS.
Tom already returned it to JPS once.
With limited success on repairs on that return.
Gordon,
It's true that Eddie's car caught on fire on the way to Morro Bay.
We still don't know what caused it.
Mike McSween's car caught on fire a few years ago. The determined culprit was a shorted starter which was a manufacturer malfunction, not a JPS issue.
Shit happens, feelings get hurt, expectations not met.
It's no longer necessary to rehash the negative. You guys are going to rework the Green Hornet and Tom is going to have the car of his dreams AND learn how to work on it in the future.
And since I can't make it out there to help out, the beer's on me.
Someone PM me an address to send a check for the suds.
Now let's start a new thread on the rebirth of Tom's coupe.
It's true that Eddie's car caught on fire on the way to Morro Bay.
We still don't know what caused it.
Mike McSween's car caught on fire a few years ago. The determined culprit was a shorted starter which was a manufacturer malfunction, not a JPS issue.
Shit happens, feelings get hurt, expectations not met.
It's no longer necessary to rehash the negative. You guys are going to rework the Green Hornet and Tom is going to have the car of his dreams AND learn how to work on it in the future.
And since I can't make it out there to help out, the beer's on me.
Someone PM me an address to send a check for the suds.
Now let's start a new thread on the rebirth of Tom's coupe.
You know what Terry, I agree, I'll match what you send to the suds fund to get this thing right.
The July dates work for me. I have a graduation party for the early June dates and a kart race for the later June dates (unless Vince's helper is coming out, and then of course I can change my plans).
I'll keep following this thread to see when this is all going down.
I'll keep following this thread to see when this is all going down.
Guys,
Depending on what's on my plate, I'd like to help whenever this happens.
I'll keep watching this thread and jump in when I can.
Greg
Phoenixville, PA
Depending on what's on my plate, I'd like to help whenever this happens.
I'll keep watching this thread and jump in when I can.
Greg
Phoenixville, PA
You know...Terry's absolutely right.
Let's put this episode behind us and do what we can to make the coupe a solid, problem-free, all-weather car. THAT should be a story in itself and something worthwhile to read on here.
gn
Let's put this episode behind us and do what we can to make the coupe a solid, problem-free, all-weather car. THAT should be a story in itself and something worthwhile to read on here.
gn
I agree with Terry. Now that there's a plan, let's focus on generating positive energy. Oooooommmm..........
Not to get off subject - Greg, If I recall you did some seat reupholstery awhile back? Is that something I can pay you to do? I'm looking to get mine redone sometime in the next 6 months or so.
As to when, I'm up for a week-end or two, just let me know what works, and I'll be figuring a way to be on station. The Green Hornet and the Red Barron are siblings, after all, and I am keen to learn as much as I can, for selfish reasons, as well as pitch in w/ the assessments/fixes/reworks/whatever. As soon as the donations for the beer fund reach case prices for a good amber (or even Rolling Rock . . .) I'll be there. Maybe Pip will turn out a new recipe and bring a few quarts: "Shade Tree Ale"? "Speedster Suds"? "Coupe de Gras"?
Hey Kelly, the Coupe is "Rolling Rock Green" and with a few logos . . . um who knows . . . "From the glass lined tanks of old Latrobe we tender this for your enjoyment" . . . "33"
Too bad it is now brewed in Newark by Anheiser Busch.
Too bad it is now brewed in Newark by Anheiser Busch.
Danny P bringing more of that super-dark stuff with a kick??
Maybe six hours in the saddle to get there isn't all THAT long!
gn
Maybe six hours in the saddle to get there isn't all THAT long!
gn
Hey Tom---we need your mailing address, please. Thanks!---Jack
We need Max Zimmer to document this. Should be a good story.
You got it, Bruce. I'd love to be there. Had to miss Carlisle and had the blues ever since from missing all you guys. Easton's less than a couple of hours from here. Gas oughta be about a hundred twenty bucks a gallon by then but it'd be more than worth it at twice that price. I'll bring Yuengling. Tom, if it's made in Newark too, I don't wanna know.
Max
Max
No more glass lined tanks in Latrobe? Man, that sucks.
PS: Not sure how Max is going to spin this story, but I think it would be so cool to have some national exposure here. Cory has even made a badge for the event, which must be posted up elsewhere, I guess.
PS: Not sure how Max is going to spin this story, but I think it would be so cool to have some national exposure here. Cory has even made a badge for the event, which must be posted up elsewhere, I guess.
For those of us that have offered to supply the suds, we need an address. I guess that is you Tom, you're in charge.
Wow! What a thread. Tom sorry to here that you had so many problems. I was a bit leary when I saw that JPS was building a coupe. It's one of those thing when a company comes out with something new there are going to some bugs to be worked out. Most of your problems can be easily fixed.
How about for next years Carlisle show we have - "Rebuild Tom's JPS in 24 hrs"
How about for next years Carlisle show we have - "Rebuild Tom's JPS in 24 hrs"
Nah, ya gotta do it in under 17 hours.
You are all too much . . . Gonna be tough to "pay this one forward".
My home address:
850 Maxwell Drive
Easton, Pa 18040
By the way, JPS is suddenly being supportive and says he will send "whatever they need" to the repair team now that he knows there is free labor involved and it is the knowledgeable SOC gang doing the work. Or maybe he's trying to improve his image a tad.
Shame is up 'til now, JPS has not understood that pulling a drowning man halfway up still doesn't accomplish much. He's still under water and drowning.
We'll see if it's any better this time. Been upbeat and hopeful about JPS promised support many times before.
My home address:
850 Maxwell Drive
Easton, Pa 18040
By the way, JPS is suddenly being supportive and says he will send "whatever they need" to the repair team now that he knows there is free labor involved and it is the knowledgeable SOC gang doing the work. Or maybe he's trying to improve his image a tad.
Shame is up 'til now, JPS has not understood that pulling a drowning man halfway up still doesn't accomplish much. He's still under water and drowning.
We'll see if it's any better this time. Been upbeat and hopeful about JPS promised support many times before.
Hey, what the heck....If John's willing to meet us half way and supply any needed parts and material while we back East supply the labor, I'd call that even.
You may have to negotiate for the parts quality you want, but since this'll be a pretty public effort, I doubt that'll be an issue, and you'll have really competent people sorting it out and making it right.
If I were John I would jump at this chance to help with parts and make a (very public) disappointed customer happy.
Of course, we don't yet know the extent of what we'll need, but I'm sure that'll all work out.
Just don't expect this to all become "right" in one weekend.....it'll take a little longer than that.
gn
You may have to negotiate for the parts quality you want, but since this'll be a pretty public effort, I doubt that'll be an issue, and you'll have really competent people sorting it out and making it right.
If I were John I would jump at this chance to help with parts and make a (very public) disappointed customer happy.
Of course, we don't yet know the extent of what we'll need, but I'm sure that'll all work out.
Just don't expect this to all become "right" in one weekend.....it'll take a little longer than that.
gn