No worries. I expect a number of sessions to get r done. No unrealistic expectations here. With or with out JPS help.
Judging from JPS most recent email he is not as serious as he would lead us (me) to believe. One side of his mouth says yes and then . . . . So I'm from Missouri on JPS help . . . .
I cant do much from Chicago but I will donate a 6pac or two when you guys get together.
Bryan
Bryan
Tom - Tell you what, why don't you guys send us Californians the suds money. We could all get tanked up and go to North Hollywood and lynch John. You know, with your attitude, that's seemingly the only thing that will make you happy. If I were John, I believe I would have cut you loose a long time ago, but then maybe that's what he did.
You suck John Steele! AAAGGGHHHH!
Hey Warren,
How would you feel if you bought you Beck Speedster with this list of unaddressed problems?
Blue smoky exhaust
How would you feel if you bought you Beck Speedster with this list of unaddressed problems?
Blue smoky exhaust
I don't know Warren, it sounds like Tom is pretty happy to me. With everyone jumping in to help out his posts have been kind of upbeat.
It's very nice of you to offer to do that though, no one else seems to be willing to go to those extremes. I don't want to speak for Tom but I'd say, as generous an offer as it is, I think it's a little extreme. We'll just fix the car.
It's very nice of you to offer to do that though, no one else seems to be willing to go to those extremes. I don't want to speak for Tom but I'd say, as generous an offer as it is, I think it's a little extreme. We'll just fix the car.
Bob - I am glad you copied this list again. Think about it, most of the guys that have offered to help Tom fix this stuff would have fixed it a long time ago. This whole thing would be a non-issue. There is nothing on the list that is beyond most of our capabilities. The smoking engine, I don't know, I would have to know more about that. How long has it been smoking? How has the car been driven? Warped rotors due to drum skins? How come no-one else has had that problem? Torn off nerf bars? Give me a break. How can that be the builders responsibility. I am sorry but I still contend that there is another side to this story, especially since Tom is continuing to bad-mouth the builder. There is a MAJOR attitude problem here. This list could have easily been any builders list. The fact that Tom elected to buy a car on the west coast makes it difficult to take it back for these very ordinary fixes. From what I see, Tom says he's been very reasonable. Really? Somehow, I don't think so. And, I am only responding to what I have read. I have bought a few parts from JPS, but not a car. And yes, if those problems were on my Beck, I agree, Carey would have stepped up to the plate a little faster than John, I think. But with most of this stuff, I personally would not have even bothered Carey.
Sorry guys, I have one more point to make, then I am having a glass of wine.
Tom - Your wanting to expose JPS because you are having these problems with John is one thing, but think what you are doing to the satisfied JPS car owners who might be thinking of selling their cars for whatever reason. You have just reduced the value of their re-sales. I don't think that is what you intended, but that is what you've done. I believe you need to make this right, somehow. So far, your words have only been negative. What now can you possibly say to propective buyers of used JPS cars that have no problems? Tom, let's see if you can step up to the plate my friend and fix this. You seem to want everyone else to fix your problems, but this problem is yours. JMHO
Tom - Your wanting to expose JPS because you are having these problems with John is one thing, but think what you are doing to the satisfied JPS car owners who might be thinking of selling their cars for whatever reason. You have just reduced the value of their re-sales. I don't think that is what you intended, but that is what you've done. I believe you need to make this right, somehow. So far, your words have only been negative. What now can you possibly say to propective buyers of used JPS cars that have no problems? Tom, let's see if you can step up to the plate my friend and fix this. You seem to want everyone else to fix your problems, but this problem is yours. JMHO
Warren, you're reading way too much into the story. As for the rest, you have no clue. I along with Cory were there when Tom's and Kelly's car came off the truck. This was to be their special day. I haven't said this until now, but not wanting to put a damper on that special day, I, and I believe Cory was biting our lips not to relate how flabbergasted we were on the shoddy condition of these two cars. On the outside they were and are gleaming gems. A closer look inside was a much different story. BELIEVE ME! I've been around these cars for a good many years now. If I had just dropped 30 large on this car right off the truck, John would have heard me SCREAMING from PA...and not on the phone.
There was a BIG ball dropped in the Quality Control Dept. Kelly's steering wheel was wobbly loose like a wheel with one lug nut....are you kidding me? How could that GET ON THE TRUCK THAT WAY! NO EXCUSE! Tom's was 90 degrees to the right when the wheels were straight. NO EXCUSE! Tail lights wired backwards..c'mon who inspected that? We had to wrench on these two cars for an hour or two before we could even drive them. And like Tom said that's only the tip of the iceberg. To tell the truth I was truly taken aback and a bit disappointed what John had sent.
SO THERE YOU HAVE IT!
IF I'M LYING, I'M DYING!
~WB
There was a BIG ball dropped in the Quality Control Dept. Kelly's steering wheel was wobbly loose like a wheel with one lug nut....are you kidding me? How could that GET ON THE TRUCK THAT WAY! NO EXCUSE! Tom's was 90 degrees to the right when the wheels were straight. NO EXCUSE! Tail lights wired backwards..c'mon who inspected that? We had to wrench on these two cars for an hour or two before we could even drive them. And like Tom said that's only the tip of the iceberg. To tell the truth I was truly taken aback and a bit disappointed what John had sent.
SO THERE YOU HAVE IT!
IF I'M LYING, I'M DYING!
~WB
Some 4 years ago, while working for an auto shop program, purchased two turn key JPS vehicles, oth arrived with items that actually fell off as one of the two were unloaded, needed work before they could be driven only to find even more mechanical and safety faults on the first test drives.
2 1/2 years also worked on a then new, JPS speedster that had numerous faults.
One thing is certain....consistency does remain in place to date. Well it's time to move onward and get Tom's coupe to a safe, reliable & drivable condition with the "Save The Coupe Team"
2 1/2 years also worked on a then new, JPS speedster that had numerous faults.
One thing is certain....consistency does remain in place to date. Well it's time to move onward and get Tom's coupe to a safe, reliable & drivable condition with the "Save The Coupe Team"
Sorry Bill, I am only reading in to this story what I am reading, nothing else. And now that it's 8:30 pm on the west coast, and I have had, maybe two wines or more by now, I am not saying anything else tonight. Let's see what and if Tom responds to my request that he fixes his FUs. My issue is not that JPS doesn't do right, it is what Tom has done to his satified customers and now the value of their investments. Most folks who have responded on this thread have ignored that fact or perhaps just don't get it.
No worries, Warren.
When Dale Farmer ripped JPS back in '03 and my car was being built at the time, I was worried that it would effect the value of my car.
It didn't. People still can't believe what I got for the money.
The lack of QC Bill witnessed was unacceptable. I hope a call had been placed to John at the time to ask WTF?
I'm not expecting any kind of response from Tom. He's entitled to feel and say what he wants.
This is a strong community here and I will suggest, again, something I suggested months ago, prior to the delivery of Tom and Kelly's cars.
Anyone having a car built across the country from them should appeal to a local member to be their representative during the build. That person could check in periodically, send photos, put some shake-down miles on the car, etc.
In the next few weeks, you east coasters will rebuild the coupe. During the build I'm sure we'll hear about all sorts of unbelievable mistakes made by JPS. Vince will continue to be entertained by the flames. Hell, me too.
JPS will continue to build cars and most of them will be just fine.
Alan has pointed out a history of issues he's noticed with JPS. John's still selling cars. I still plan on dealing with him in the future.
Bottom line: Shit happens. We all have our ways of cleaning it up.
When Dale Farmer ripped JPS back in '03 and my car was being built at the time, I was worried that it would effect the value of my car.
It didn't. People still can't believe what I got for the money.
The lack of QC Bill witnessed was unacceptable. I hope a call had been placed to John at the time to ask WTF?
I'm not expecting any kind of response from Tom. He's entitled to feel and say what he wants.
This is a strong community here and I will suggest, again, something I suggested months ago, prior to the delivery of Tom and Kelly's cars.
Anyone having a car built across the country from them should appeal to a local member to be their representative during the build. That person could check in periodically, send photos, put some shake-down miles on the car, etc.
In the next few weeks, you east coasters will rebuild the coupe. During the build I'm sure we'll hear about all sorts of unbelievable mistakes made by JPS. Vince will continue to be entertained by the flames. Hell, me too.
JPS will continue to build cars and most of them will be just fine.
Alan has pointed out a history of issues he's noticed with JPS. John's still selling cars. I still plan on dealing with him in the future.
Bottom line: Shit happens. We all have our ways of cleaning it up.
Warren you certainly are. Bottom line is money was paid and car is not right. Car went back second time, still not right, engine worse, still leaks more than a Speedster. John may say he did his part to fix but he did not. After beating head against wall, Tom lets his troubles be known.
Tom isn't hurting any satisfied customers, JOHN IS, by not rectifying this car's problems WHAT EVER IT TAKES. If the car had been right in the first place how many satisfied customers would be hurting right now?
Customer satisfaction is no secret to Tom, he's in that business.
We ARE gonna fix this car!
~WB
Tom isn't hurting any satisfied customers, JOHN IS, by not rectifying this car's problems WHAT EVER IT TAKES. If the car had been right in the first place how many satisfied customers would be hurting right now?
Customer satisfaction is no secret to Tom, he's in that business.
We ARE gonna fix this car!
~WB
Good point Bill. John is the only one hurting JPS cars. Everyone knows if you get bad service, people talk- bottom line. I am surprised Tom didn't voice his opinion a long time ago. I saw what was wrong with the car & couldn't believe Tom wasn't complaining to us all. Well after this run around, why wouldn't he complain???
I think this exposure of the problems with JPS quality, customer service,and lack of integrity is good for the replica market in general. This forum, the members that I have met and the information provided by the members about cars, personalities and vendors,gave me the information to make my purchase and join the "Madness". With out the discussion of real owners' experience with cars and people, I would have been reluctant to jump in. A $30,000 toy may be chump change for some, but most folks will not jump into that level of investment with out some data to validate the move. A great web site, sharp brochures, and a good "dream weaver" salesman are not enough to keep the ball rolling. Potential buyers, new or used, need to be educated about the realities of replica ownership. If one of the realities is a $30,000 car being described as a "used VW" after the check has cleared, it needs to be pointed out. Bad dealing in the replica market affects us all. The reporting of truth is not detrimental, but beneficial in the long run. It will keep the builders honest, or weed out bad actors. If JPS has the other side of the story, let's hear it. Enough people on this forum have confirmed that the green coupe was not in a reasonable condition at delivery. I followed the "Green Coupe is Born" thread from the beginning. I was excited for Tom and anticipated a good experience for him. If he was building a kit from scratch, thing being less than perfect is expected. The owner builder needs to work things out,fabricate,accept the limitations of a home built car on a old VW chassis. That is not what JPS advertises. A reasonable build time, a fully functional electrical system, lights, horn,wipers,etc,a engine that performs as "new", doors that at least remain latched are expected in a turn key build. Turnkey builders that do not meet these minimal standards are hurting the market across the board. Let's keep them honest.
I am in the RV business. RVs are not perfect. What product is? Many customers expect that paying up wards of 150k entitles them to perfection. I have been in John Steele's shoes MANY times. I know perfection does not exist. I know problems will occur. I knew I was 3,000 miles away. I knew I was going to have issues. I knew I would have more because it was a new product. I asked how issues were to be handled BEFORE I sent my deposit. I was ASSURED I would get good support, fast response and a local repair if needed. I was promised in writing a 24mo/24k miles engine warranty. I was promised nerf bars would be fitted to the car. and by the way I was gonna pay for that repair, but JPS did it anyway. He felt responsible he did not fit them as promised. My billing was a mess. I had to fight to get my documented in writing quote honored. I could go on for ever. Back to my business. If I ever did what JPS did I would have the PA Attorney General so far up my butt I wouldn't be able to see. The bottom line is JPS cars just like the RVs I sell need support. A well sorted RV is great. A well sorted JPS is great. Why should I have to pay more to sort my new car? I do not charge my RV customers ,more to fix the issues they find. Ask your self what would you expect for your hard earned money and what would you do if you were promised and promised and promised and promised and none of it ever came to be?
I never expected anyone to fix my car for me other than JPS. The responsible party that I contracted with to build me a quality car and support me through the sorting process I knew I would face. I BELIEVED the promises and the assurances I was given. I believed and was encouraged when he offered to ship it back and address the issues. Wow I thought he IS going to make it right. Unfortunately JPS continues to over-promise and under-deliver.
Support is the key issue. When things go wrong - is there accountability and assistance - or not.
I never expected anyone to fix my car for me other than JPS. The responsible party that I contracted with to build me a quality car and support me through the sorting process I knew I would face. I BELIEVED the promises and the assurances I was given. I believed and was encouraged when he offered to ship it back and address the issues. Wow I thought he IS going to make it right. Unfortunately JPS continues to over-promise and under-deliver.
Support is the key issue. When things go wrong - is there accountability and assistance - or not.
As for JPS cars losing value . . . Why are they any worse than any other make once they are sorted out?
I would submit that a used one is a MUCH better value than a new one!
Kelly's Car is better now than when he got it. Coupe # 1 is now a good car after a year of sorting at the owner's expense. John treated him pretty much the same as he did me. Bottom line is why should a buyer be the QC department and have to pay a hidden cost because JPS won't? Why should we have to fix a brand new car. I didn't have to do that with my Special Edition built Beck! Why is it acceptable for a JPS?
Would you be happy to pay extra? Or have the down time? Or the aggravation?
I think not. Seems it only works when you can drive down and get JPS to do it face to face. Or do it yourself.
Or if you are lucky, have a great bunch of people help you do it.
Thank you all. Again I never expected all the offers of help.
I would submit that a used one is a MUCH better value than a new one!
Kelly's Car is better now than when he got it. Coupe # 1 is now a good car after a year of sorting at the owner's expense. John treated him pretty much the same as he did me. Bottom line is why should a buyer be the QC department and have to pay a hidden cost because JPS won't? Why should we have to fix a brand new car. I didn't have to do that with my Special Edition built Beck! Why is it acceptable for a JPS?
Would you be happy to pay extra? Or have the down time? Or the aggravation?
I think not. Seems it only works when you can drive down and get JPS to do it face to face. Or do it yourself.
Or if you are lucky, have a great bunch of people help you do it.
Thank you all. Again I never expected all the offers of help.
Tom,
I had a JPS also and sure I had some minor problems with it,(one major problem that was not directly JPS's fault), but I worked thru it with Steele and learned that he is not a super detail guy but kind of a push 'em out the door guy. That is typical of basically a one man operation that John operates. He subcontracts a lot of stuff like engines, upholstery, paint, etc, typical for a small builder.
I can understand your frustration with the coupe not being everything you thought it would be but I think you were coupe #2. He was on a steep learning curve and probably still is.
I would advise you to step back, take a deep breath, and let your crew handle the problems. You also may learn a lot by getting your hands dirty and greasy too. This is really old technology you are working with and fiddling is a given. Not a maitainence free rig for sure. I sold my JPS because I am 71 years old and don't have the agility to crawl under those cars and also lost my local VW builder/mechanic so I took the money I got from the JPS and bought a Mazda MX-5 Miata. Now that is a trouble free car. Suited to my age.
I think most people are tired of reading your gripes, I know I am!
I had a JPS also and sure I had some minor problems with it,(one major problem that was not directly JPS's fault), but I worked thru it with Steele and learned that he is not a super detail guy but kind of a push 'em out the door guy. That is typical of basically a one man operation that John operates. He subcontracts a lot of stuff like engines, upholstery, paint, etc, typical for a small builder.
I can understand your frustration with the coupe not being everything you thought it would be but I think you were coupe #2. He was on a steep learning curve and probably still is.
I would advise you to step back, take a deep breath, and let your crew handle the problems. You also may learn a lot by getting your hands dirty and greasy too. This is really old technology you are working with and fiddling is a given. Not a maitainence free rig for sure. I sold my JPS because I am 71 years old and don't have the agility to crawl under those cars and also lost my local VW builder/mechanic so I took the money I got from the JPS and bought a Mazda MX-5 Miata. Now that is a trouble free car. Suited to my age.
I think most people are tired of reading your gripes, I know I am!
Hey Gang
It's Saturday morning and I should be out filling the holes on the side of my car but I was curious what the rest of JPS owners had to say. This info was taken off the details section of every JPS owner on this site. There are 858 cars resgistered here. 32 are JPS and here is how they rated JPS:
Customer Service (10) 21
Quality (10) 16
Overall Rating (10) 18
Overall Rating (9.8) 1
Overall Rating (9.6) 3
Overall Rating (9.4) 3
Overall Rating (9.25) 4
Overall Rating (9.2) 2
Quality (9) 6
Quality (8) 7
Customer Service (8) 2
Overall Rating (8.4) 1
Quality (7) 1
There were two guys with zeros as it seems they had the same problems or similar problems as Tom. I find it interesting that only 3 guys out of 32 have had a bad experience with JPS. As you can see, most on this site have not. Granted most of these cars are in CA, so customer service is a bit easier. My point here is that most folks on this site are happy with John Steele's work. Who knows what the guys that are not members here say.
I just think the shotgun affect you have taken Tom is most disturbing as it gives the idea to a prospective JPS customer or buyer of a resell the wrong and one-sided message. Most of your JPS counterparts don't feel the way you and a couple of others feel. One other thing that I would like to bring back to the attention of readers is that John did agree to fix your car and send it back to you. You did not accept that offer. Now quit whining and go fix your car.
It's Saturday morning and I should be out filling the holes on the side of my car but I was curious what the rest of JPS owners had to say. This info was taken off the details section of every JPS owner on this site. There are 858 cars resgistered here. 32 are JPS and here is how they rated JPS:
Customer Service (10) 21
Quality (10) 16
Overall Rating (10) 18
Overall Rating (9.8) 1
Overall Rating (9.6) 3
Overall Rating (9.4) 3
Overall Rating (9.25) 4
Overall Rating (9.2) 2
Quality (9) 6
Quality (8) 7
Customer Service (8) 2
Overall Rating (8.4) 1
Quality (7) 1
There were two guys with zeros as it seems they had the same problems or similar problems as Tom. I find it interesting that only 3 guys out of 32 have had a bad experience with JPS. As you can see, most on this site have not. Granted most of these cars are in CA, so customer service is a bit easier. My point here is that most folks on this site are happy with John Steele's work. Who knows what the guys that are not members here say.
I just think the shotgun affect you have taken Tom is most disturbing as it gives the idea to a prospective JPS customer or buyer of a resell the wrong and one-sided message. Most of your JPS counterparts don't feel the way you and a couple of others feel. One other thing that I would like to bring back to the attention of readers is that John did agree to fix your car and send it back to you. You did not accept that offer. Now quit whining and go fix your car.
Guys, it's obvious that Tom's strategy is to get the car fixed. I suggest everybody let it drop for a while and see how that turns out.
Tom, I would also like to offer to let you stay at my home in Carlsbad, CA if JPS would ship your car both ways again. It is a drive to N Hollywood, but you could enjoy some S Cal time, and check on the car while it is getting fixed. Or you can borrow my Safari MH and park it on JPS's lot until the car is completed. Just a thought.
Let's not forget that the first post in this thread says: "Do not buy a JPS!"
Tom's recent return to rationality aside, his original intent was to affect John Steele's business. Let's be blunt - Tom wanted to hurt John Steele's business.
The use of an internet forum to try to wreck someone's livelihood is bad form at best and potential libel at worst.
I don't know all the facts in Tom's case - I suspect none of us do.
But, there are always two sides to every story. This one is no exception.
I sincerely hope Tom gets his car fixed - although I suspect it will never be to his 100% satisfaction. I also hope he backs off on the daily criticism of John Steele, who obviously will not be posting here to defend himself.
Those who believe "the customer is always right" have never owned and run their own business.
Tom's recent return to rationality aside, his original intent was to affect John Steele's business. Let's be blunt - Tom wanted to hurt John Steele's business.
The use of an internet forum to try to wreck someone's livelihood is bad form at best and potential libel at worst.
I don't know all the facts in Tom's case - I suspect none of us do.
But, there are always two sides to every story. This one is no exception.
I sincerely hope Tom gets his car fixed - although I suspect it will never be to his 100% satisfaction. I also hope he backs off on the daily criticism of John Steele, who obviously will not be posting here to defend himself.
Those who believe "the customer is always right" have never owned and run their own business.
IMHO,Tom chose to post on this site about his dissatisfaction with the treatment that he was/was not recieving from John only after he had exhausted all avenues of resolution. I have read the posts that Tom has made regarding his frustration in having to accept a inferior
build,and find that he has stated only facts regarding promises made and kept/or not. He has made no personal attacks or impuned John
in any way that is not truthful fact. I believe that John needs to make good on broken promises to Tom,and he(John) should agree to pay for all expenses that are incurred in sorting out Toms coupe. John need not in any way be involved in this process other than to be willing to cut a check to Tom when all within reason is resolved. John has by commission and omission shown that he is not capable or does not want to fix Tom's car. Lest we forget,Tom is the victim here not John. Tom's "Do Not Buy A Car From JPS" is his way of warning potential buyers from the possible pitfalls of dealing with a builder that does not stand behind his product,but wants you to beleive that he does.A beautiful paint job and shiny chrome don't get ya home!! I do not believe that there is anyone on this site that thinks that a coupe should take on water in the rain. Is'nt that one of the reasons for a coupe recreation demand, to have a weather tight ride? Tom, you are to be commended for your patience and diplomacy dealing with John. After all is said and done,and at the end of the day,you have shown great restraint and composure in having to deal with intolerable and unresponsive treatment.
build,and find that he has stated only facts regarding promises made and kept/or not. He has made no personal attacks or impuned John
in any way that is not truthful fact. I believe that John needs to make good on broken promises to Tom,and he(John) should agree to pay for all expenses that are incurred in sorting out Toms coupe. John need not in any way be involved in this process other than to be willing to cut a check to Tom when all within reason is resolved. John has by commission and omission shown that he is not capable or does not want to fix Tom's car. Lest we forget,Tom is the victim here not John. Tom's "Do Not Buy A Car From JPS" is his way of warning potential buyers from the possible pitfalls of dealing with a builder that does not stand behind his product,but wants you to beleive that he does.A beautiful paint job and shiny chrome don't get ya home!! I do not believe that there is anyone on this site that thinks that a coupe should take on water in the rain. Is'nt that one of the reasons for a coupe recreation demand, to have a weather tight ride? Tom, you are to be commended for your patience and diplomacy dealing with John. After all is said and done,and at the end of the day,you have shown great restraint and composure in having to deal with intolerable and unresponsive treatment.
Hey Allan, what have you been smokin?
to think that John is going to cut a check to Tom is bordering on fantasy, and I gotta agree with Leader that this thread is coming mighty close to slander or some other type of libel $hit....
Regardless of condition of the product delivered, or how pissed off everyone is, it sure sounds like Tom is trying to affect John's business and I'm no lawyer, and I'm no party pooper, but I think that it would be best for all concerned to end this thread and start one that completes the process of fixing Tom's coupe, since some of you have graciously volunteered to help...
Of course, what the F do I know....
to think that John is going to cut a check to Tom is bordering on fantasy, and I gotta agree with Leader that this thread is coming mighty close to slander or some other type of libel $hit....
Regardless of condition of the product delivered, or how pissed off everyone is, it sure sounds like Tom is trying to affect John's business and I'm no lawyer, and I'm no party pooper, but I think that it would be best for all concerned to end this thread and start one that completes the process of fixing Tom's coupe, since some of you have graciously volunteered to help...
Of course, what the F do I know....
Everyone here has a right to express their likes, dislikes, faults thoughts, experiences and views for any product purchased.
You are also right Vince is suggesting it's time to move on to posting the rehab progress of Tom's speedster.
You are also right Vince is suggesting it's time to move on to posting the rehab progress of Tom's speedster.
Now Vince, don't start talkin' legaleze! You know it makes the blood just spew from your ears. Slander and or libel suits result from malicious, defamatory FALSE statements made by one against another. You know, like when the stars sue the tabloids for false $hit.
Now, go get the Beer Nuts!
~WB
Now, go get the Beer Nuts!
~WB
Don't get me wrong, I love discontent, I have even been known to create it on occasion, but this thread is starting to get boring.. You can only say so many bad things about someone, and you guys have about run the gambit....
Vince is right. Let's end this to avoid any issues. Tom has said his piece, as has everyone else. Let's focus on the solutions now.
OK, so we've got 3 groups.
First is the I Love John group. I don't know John, don't have an axe to grind, yet this love fest comes through loud and clear. OK, you love John. As they say in the South...Bless His Heart.
Second is the Business group. This is where we find more than several folks at SOC. JPS promised Tom "X" and Tom did not get the product and services he contracted for. John should make good on his product.
Third (and fascinating to me) is the John is OK and Tom Paid, therefore we all should be happy Group. They like John, like Tom, but don't see why Tom should be pissed at lack of service from JPS. After all, NO ONE REALLY expects to get a "product" for their money. Tom should accept reality and keep paying to get the coupe in workable and not drownable conditions.
All I can say is that these postings have been more than about JPS. They are a sociological event and a real statement on where we are as a society, let alone the SOC group.
To say that John is a great guy is just fine. To say that he is an ethical businessman (based on postings here) is totally another deal. To say that Tom should be happy and roll over because he paid his money and took his chances is at least, insane. Gee, let ME pay $30K+ and be happy when what is promised and not delivered? Are we all on the same PLANET??
That John is OK, Tom is OK and Tom's money is not important is another crazy proposal. Tom PAID for a QUALITY product. Tom DESERVES a QUALITY product. We don't pay for product/services and then say "Gee, let me pay MORE, as I didn't get what was promised".
I debated posting to this thread, as there are a lot of emotions floating around. I don't know John, don't know Tom and don't really need to when I see this "logic".
Everyone will have their favorites, but really...HOW can you say that Tom doesn't deserve better than he's received? Both from John and from many posters on this thread.
OK, end of rant.
First is the I Love John group. I don't know John, don't have an axe to grind, yet this love fest comes through loud and clear. OK, you love John. As they say in the South...Bless His Heart.
Second is the Business group. This is where we find more than several folks at SOC. JPS promised Tom "X" and Tom did not get the product and services he contracted for. John should make good on his product.
Third (and fascinating to me) is the John is OK and Tom Paid, therefore we all should be happy Group. They like John, like Tom, but don't see why Tom should be pissed at lack of service from JPS. After all, NO ONE REALLY expects to get a "product" for their money. Tom should accept reality and keep paying to get the coupe in workable and not drownable conditions.
All I can say is that these postings have been more than about JPS. They are a sociological event and a real statement on where we are as a society, let alone the SOC group.
To say that John is a great guy is just fine. To say that he is an ethical businessman (based on postings here) is totally another deal. To say that Tom should be happy and roll over because he paid his money and took his chances is at least, insane. Gee, let ME pay $30K+ and be happy when what is promised and not delivered? Are we all on the same PLANET??
That John is OK, Tom is OK and Tom's money is not important is another crazy proposal. Tom PAID for a QUALITY product. Tom DESERVES a QUALITY product. We don't pay for product/services and then say "Gee, let me pay MORE, as I didn't get what was promised".
I debated posting to this thread, as there are a lot of emotions floating around. I don't know John, don't know Tom and don't really need to when I see this "logic".
Everyone will have their favorites, but really...HOW can you say that Tom doesn't deserve better than he's received? Both from John and from many posters on this thread.
OK, end of rant.
Dennis, with only a few exceptions, I believe everyone agrees that John did Tom wrong. Personally I would have rung his neck long ago, even guys who have JPS cars relate stories that are negative concerning John's lack interest once a car is delivered and that his cars sometime leave a little to be desired. But how many ways are there to say the same frigging thing....
But if you insist on rambling on....be my guest...
Jim, i think another beer would be great right now...Hey, how come those hookers never showed up....
But if you insist on rambling on....be my guest...
Jim, i think another beer would be great right now...Hey, how come those hookers never showed up....
Vince...I'm done the rant. Just stuck in my throat.
BTW, looking forward to meeting you one of these days.
BTW, looking forward to meeting you one of these days.
Sigh.
I hope I never do jury duty with any of you guys.
Is the coupe still for sale?
I hereby declare this thread dead. This will be my final post on the subject.
I will end with the last word from John Steele. He has declared he will offer no help whatsoever without a hold harmless agreement signed up front. Sorry guys but I am unwilling to sign away my rights on yet another promise from John Steele. Based on results to date, almost none have been honored. Only a fool would do as he wants.
I will also state that I have written nothing but fact here. You can choose to believe that or not. FACT IS NOT LIBEL OR SLANDER.
When doing business with JPS remember "caveat emptor".
THE END
I will end with the last word from John Steele. He has declared he will offer no help whatsoever without a hold harmless agreement signed up front. Sorry guys but I am unwilling to sign away my rights on yet another promise from John Steele. Based on results to date, almost none have been honored. Only a fool would do as he wants.
I will also state that I have written nothing but fact here. You can choose to believe that or not. FACT IS NOT LIBEL OR SLANDER.
When doing business with JPS remember "caveat emptor".
THE END
The End? I doubt that your latest comments will keep folks from saying more. It doesn't me. Tom, you're the one that keeps this thing going. You seem to love throwing yet another log on the fire. We are not going to hear from John about all the conversations you two have had. You claim you have stated nothing but fact. Maybe? The part of this story that is still missing is why John has seemingly picked you out of hundreds of his customers to avoid. Again my friend the fact remains that he has offered to fix your car and you turned him down because he didn't meet your terms. I think you prefer just to keep going on about this rather than giving him a chance to make it right. I believe Johns lastest actions, according to you, is merely trying to protect himself from a guy who has called him a liar, made some unreasonable demands, tried to ruin his business and threatened a lawsuit. Hey Tom, you're story gets more unbelievable everytime you open your mouth. Or, I guess in this case, everytime your thoughts go to your fingers.
Warren, you're way out of line here.... so that this banter ceases, please turn the lights off on the way out. ~ Alan
Dats it! Let's rumble! Bats,chains,pipes and knuckles. No knives,guns,grenades or other inciderary devices! East battles West. Take no prisoners! I'm just sayin.
No...Like Tom said
THE END
We got a car to repair now.
END OF STORY
THE END
We got a car to repair now.
END OF STORY
Alan - Please explain where my comments are out of line. Tom has made his views public and as I said, keeps throwing a log on the fire. You want those of us that feel we are not getting the whole story to keep quiet? Listen, I have nothing to gain by asking these questions. It's not that it's John, it could be any of the builders, I would still say this story is not complete. I have no more information than what Tom has said here, and IMHO, there are major holes. Yes, go fix the car, but don't tell me to be quiet.