JPS

Damn that is fantastic.  So good to hear some of these companies do it right...

Nice to hear that you appear to be having a good experience with a vendor.  Research on the SOC will show that has not always been the case.
A coupe from a few years ago comes to mind.

You guys never let anything go!

 

I picked my JPS speedster up this summer and John was amazing in getting the 

the car sorted out.

 

 

Jerry--that is some great endorsement for John Steele.  Good to hear experiences like this.

It's hard to ignore incident after incident and personal experience.

Troy is spot on ......please use caution and consider history as a valuable  lesson as it can cost dearly.   Good to the locals but tends to turn a deaf ear to the distant customers...this is not an idle statement but has been reinforced time after time. He doesn't care for me much to the point he chose to call me an A Hole at Carlisle (because I have gone to bat for people that have not got what was promised) and if a beautiful wide body speedster was not displayed right next to him I would have knocked him out right there on the spot.

 However I just stated ....That wasn't very adult ....and wished him a good day.

 

 

 

 

20 years from now some people will still bring up things that happened in ancient history-we should judge people by their current behavior--like stallone said " if i can change and you can change we all can change" or something like that..crap happens, circumstances vary, people dont always tell the whole truth about their experiences. I am a distant customer for sure and have been treated well...I hope we can drop this topic now

heres a follow up-thought we were done-but--the trans shop rancho are the ones who are making the offer to replace my trans and i mis-read the FREE shipping-its not free--i have the option to have the replacement trans installed here at home

Alan, I wasn't there, so I'm glad you didn't hit him, because I would forever be pissed off that I missed it.

Jerry.
Thanks for the clarification.  So I guess there is really nothing so extraordinary here after all.  Except possibly that you actually received some customer service.

OK, so I am confused -- just exactly what is it that JPS has agreed to do?  At the end here, sounds like John is going to help get a new tranny from his supplier -- at the supplier's expense -- out to NJ.  The R&R in NJ is on Jerry.  I do not see anything out of pocket here by JPS.  Which would be about how it always goes.

PS: I was there at Carlisle, and Alan presented as a gentleman, I will attest.  Not sure what all that self-restraint may have cost him in blood pressure readings.  It is clear that John remains pissed by what Alan has said in the past.  Two very proud and stubborn men agreeing to disagree.

Thank you Kelly for the kudos.....not sure what my bp was but I have made the attempt to shake his hand for thee years in a row to no avail...... perhaps next year when June Cleaver confesses her affair with Eddie Haskel, Lumpy opens a fast food emporium called  McLumpys, the Beav begins a ahort career as John Holmes stand in, Wally discovers the Gilligan Castaways and lastly, Ward Cleaver comes out of the closet live at Carlisle !

You know, as someone on the outside, but has been reading about the behavior of certain people for a number of years (I lurked for a good while before even joining), you see patterns emerge. And while it's nice to think that people can change (and don't get me wrong; if a person truly wants to he/she can), what I see here is a person comfortable at what he does and sees no reason/motivation to do things differently. People come to him, give up (probably healthy) deposits and then have the patience of Job while he goes on building cars at his own pace. He must be quite the talker, for people to put up with it. You all know the expression "a leopard doesn't change his spots"; at his age, hoping for his concience to kick in is probably a waste of time.. 

 

And I agree with Kelly- the guy didn't really go that far out of his way, when you think about it. But calling someone with that history who won't forget slights of the past a "very proud and stubborn man" is generous.

 

Alan- Sound like you should have belted him; way more satisfaction! And you're wasting your time thinking the other side will ever take the high road...

I would imagine it would more difficult to produce something.....than merely resell it..

Scott "Flyenby."  What you just posted is true, but I really hope you are not insinuating that Alan can't build one of these cars from the ground up.  If that is what you meant, you are sadly mistaken.  If that isn't what you meant, I'm not sure what the point of your post was.

How long did you have to wait for it?

It took about 11 months for me to get my coupe but I have been very pleased with it's quality and performance and get prompt and useful replies from John when I have a question.

 

I am far enough away (Washington State) that I wouldn't consider shipping my car back and forth for a repair, and if a major problem occurs, I have no doubt that I could reach a reasonable agreement to have the warranty work done locally.   

 

I would not hesitate to recommend JPS to anyone considering having a car built. 

Same here, My car was built in three months.

John has been super to deal with and my car is sorted and ready to run.

 

You guys have to get over it  and move on.

 

Mr Sloan...I merely stated a fact, if it offends someone that is thier problem.

Scott you can call me Troy.  Like I said, what you said is true, I'm just trying to understand what relevance it has to this thread.

frazer-  i dont have to pay any labor

 

Wow Stallone... What a tender statement. I'm going to watch The Expendables trilogy tonight in honor of that.

 

I think that it is a good time to insert this quote;

 

 

"May the iniquities of our brothers be written upon tablets of sand"

That's a great sentiment, Rusty. It sounds like something Jim Ignacio would say, and I mean that in the best possible sense. We'd all do well to remember that.

 

I had a car built by John Steele in 2002. I chose JPS based largely on the rating system of the old SOC (all 10s!!!, EVERYTHING is GREAT!!!), where people would never honestly rate their experiences, for fear of damaging any resale value their particular car (lemon, or otherwise) might still have.

 

It was a not altogether positive experience, to be as gracious as I can be. I straightened out most of the car's issues at my own expense, and sold it after a couple of years. It was hard to love a car that was a tangible reminder of a shattered dream. I wanted to stay in the hobby, but couldn't live with my JPS, so I had an IM roller built. I am happy with my (ultimate) decision... but I had the time and money for a "do-over". For other guys, a speedster build is a once-in-a-lifetime extravagance. The bitterness is harder for them to get over, and I think that's fair.

 

It's also fair to share positive experiences as well. Honesty beats the heck out of some sort of lame "ALL 10's!!!" review.

 

Kelly (and a few other JPS customers in the "mid-aughts") had a lot of the same issues I did. Alan and Gordon and a few other guys pitched in to try to resolve some of them in a few of the builds. They had nothing to gain by getting involved-- they did it because of the bond they developed on this site. They've earned the right to speak up. When they talk about this stuff, it's not because they are bitter old guys with an ax to grind-- it's because they are sticking up for friends they feel were wronged. Time doesn't necessarily heal all wounds. Openly sharing a real experience (good or bad) has to be fair as well.

 

Vintage Speedsters has had some builds that went sideways as well. Some buyers stuck it out and fell in love again. But more often than not, guys just sell out and filter away. I understand that. Now, I can look at my experience 12 years ago through the rear-view mirror as a "learning moment"; where I came to understand that in a lot of transactions, a man doesn't always get what he pays for, but he always pays for what he gets. It was a good life lesson, and has helped me since-- but at the time, I couldn't taste much lemonade in my pile of lemons.

 

The problems with my 2002 JPS were mostly the result of stretching John's very small operation WAY too far with custom options. My expectations were very, very high-- fueled in no small part by John's salesmanship, but stoked by my own delusion that I could get a custom-speced $40K car for $30K. If something sounds too good to be true, it most definitely is.

 

If I had commissioned a simpler car, I would have been much more satisfied. JPS's paint work and interiors have always been first rate-- really, really nice. If I were running his shop, I'd do things differently-- but I'm not running his shop, so I have to take it for what it is. John is going to be John.

 

I'm really glad a lot of the recent JPS buyers on this forum are happy. John's operation is certainly bigger and better than it was in 2002, and I think that's part of the satisfaction recent buyers are reporting. I'm glad for them, and glad for the hobby. 

 

It's a big tent. I think there's room for everybody's perspective.

Excellent post Stan !

That.

Jerry: Sorry to be dense about all of this, but I still do not understand what it is that JPS is going to warranty for you.  sounds like he is brokering a warranty action on behalf of the tranny builder and it is the tranny builder who is going to bite the cost to get you a new trans.  I suppose he will get the old trans in exchange.  The trans R&R is going to be done in your neighborhood, and JPS is going make you whole on the labor costs for that?  Is this the deal?

 

And I suppose I need to chime in on my experience w/ my JPS, as my name has been mentioned here.  My bcar is an '07 build (in the "aughts"?).  I will summarize that my car was, contrary to JPS claims, not sorted when delivered.  I believe he was hurrying to get my car and his first sold coupe (DeWalt's Green Coupe) done together and shipped east on the same trailer.  I don't think my car was driven more than 10 miles before it left CA.  It was (and is) a beautiful Speedster.  As mentioned, the paint and interior are first rate.  The basic running gear (engine and trans, brakes, suspension) are exactly as I spec'ed them.  But a host of little things got in the way right from the get go.  The engine was not broken in even a little bit, so I had to deal w/ that.  Normal business for a new mill, I guess.  A headlight can was loose.  The alignment (toe-in) was non-existent. the lock-to-lock limit bolts for the steering box were left off, resulting in the torsion bar knuckle grinding away the inner side wall of a front tire.  One carb had a cracked body that leaked gas around the idle jet mixture screw.  The engine block was cracked near the oil sender unit, and sprayed oil all about.  The rear tin was mounted so as to rub on the fan pulley.  The canvas top hold downs were pieces of sh** and failed while under way.  My tach was the "standard" God-awful Chinese garbage, and gave no good indication of engine speed.  Headlight switch (also cheap Chinese) failed twice.  The stock VW shifter was a another PoS.  The side mounted rear view mirrors were also cheap Chinese PoS.  So my beautiful Speedster did have a few issues.  How did all this get "sorted"?  Basically it was John and I taking these things as they came.  John was usually very prompt with advice by phone or e-mail.  He sent me a new carb and I did the swap.  We were negotiating about the cracked engine block when I spoke to a local engine builder who explained that he had seen this numerous times, and that proper application of JB Weld to the crack ought to fix it.  He gave me the JB Weld and I fixed it.  It is still fixed.  I found a spring to hold the tin away from the pulley, and that problem was solved.  After my continuing complaint about the tach, and finding out that one can get North Hollywood Speedo to install genuine VDO innards for a nifty re-build charge, John agreed to get this done for me.  I sent the Tach, he got it rebuilt and sent it back.  He sent me numerous new headlight switches. He gave me $25 cash for the ruined tire (which cost more like $60); I installed the stop-bolts to limit the steering gear rotation.  I attached the loose headlight bucket.  I set the toe-in, and man what a difference that made.  I learned how to tune and rebuild Weber carbs.  I bought a new shifter (German made) and installed it, plus new rear view side mirrors from Stoddard.

 

And so that is more or less how my sorting out went.  I believe every new car owner goes through some of this sort of thing.  Some owners have had experience w/ auto mechanics and know which end of the wrench to hold, and what direction is tighter.  I had two 356 coupes back in the day, and I learned how to deal w/ air-cooled machines w/ those cars.  Part of my attraction to the Speedster kit-car is its fundamental simplicity, and my ability to fuss with it.  All the things that ended up needing to be done were things that I could do, and so I did them.  I learned more about my car by doing so, and as stated, this is part of the hobby for me.  Others may not have the knowledge nor the desire to tinker w/ the mechanics, and expect their cars to be like a 21st century new car.  In these cases, getting stuff "sorted" is going to be more problematic.  Some of the builders are better than others about snooping out items that need sorting, and tending to business before shipping.  While John and I wrangled over some stuff, John was always willing to help me get past whatever popped up.  He even apologized for some of the oversights.  I am not saying we did not have our moments, because we did, and I was properly pi**ed on a few occasions.  I guess I got over it. I'd say the process took over a year, and I suppose I am "out of warranty" now.  That said, I would not hesitate to call John with a problem if one shows up, and I need some advice.  I am sure he would help me any way he could, but I would not expect him to cough up much in the way of $$ to pay for any fix at this point.

 

Yeah, I know: TMI.  Sorry.

PS: one other item was the cast Al valve covers, which looked really cool and did not work worth a hoot.  Leaked oil more than could be properly sealed.  John said he'd find me a pair of real German VW steel covers and send them to me, and he did.  I did the R&R.

A thorough QC before leaving the 'factory' might have caught a few of these items before ever reaching the customer and therefore never ended up on this forum. A better plan than letting the customer uncover and 'sort' them out his/herself regardless of ones interest or ability to fix them. I understand the hobby/fix part but personally I'd rather do things I'd like to do to the car than things I have to do.

 

Frazerk1 (Sorry, is it Kelly?)

 

You state that every new car owner has to perform myriad fixes on their car to get it right, when they get it straight from the 'factory'.

 

Perhaps with some builders, but not with all.  Some builders are able to build and test their cars properly.  And, regardless of price point, all of them should do the same.

 

You seem to be very mechanical; not all purchasers are, and a car with the problems you describe as having, would be enough to make many buyers put the thing up for sale the very next day. 

 

And we have seen that here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All of these cars are one off semi/custom builds.  The more you deviate from the base build, the more likelihood you will have issues.  These are not production vehicles with several years and millions of dollars of development.

I speak from 30 years of automotive engineering in Detroit.

The other factor is the quality of the replica parts.  Some are good and some are not.

Finally, this is 75 year old VW technology.  It was designed to be cheap and easy to repair.

I follow the vintage VW guys on FB and they have just as many issues keeping their cars on the road as we do.

Yes, there's a difference between the speedster designs and builders.

The pan builds are on the low end.  If you want better, step up to Beck or IM where you're no longer rolling around on a Beetle pan.

Tom

 

Beetle pan or not, a car should be finished and driveable when delivered to the customer.  If I build or buy something myself, I am fine with fixing a number of things, but not if I pony up for a 'new' car built by a professional shop.

 

I would expect it to be driveable and in excellent condition from the get go.

 

 

 

I love the Beck folks and believe that they make one of the best products out there, but even their cars require some sorting, as do some of Henry's cars.  That's to be expected in this hobby.  The telling difference is how the manufacturer supports the new owner during that process.  I won't comment on anyone else as I've only had the one Speedster, but I am extremely happy with my after-delivery support from Carey and Kevin.

Good interesting thread.  I'll chime in here with the bottom line on my experience with my Vintage Speedster.

 

I wasn't as smart as many others and did little research on the various builders and bought a used VS with just 700 miles on it I found on ebay not too far from where I live.  That was 7 years and 3 months ago. Sure it took sorting---quite a bit over the years, but today I wouldn't trade it for a new anything else---pan and all, because the car is today anvil reliable because I loved the car and the SOC knuckleheads enough to hang in there and do the necessary things to end up with a great car with a combination of features and comfort

that fits my driving style perfectly. It is now a comfortable, weather resistant, high powered touring automobile that runs 75 all day, 85 if you like, and delivers 26-28 MPG.  It didn't get that way by itself though.

 

Sure--a new car should be delivered ready for a long trouble-free life but we all know the nature of a hand-built car--tweaks have to be done.

 

My message is that for me the payoff was worth the work it took to get my car in the condition it is in today.  To anyone starting to become weary with fixing things, hang in there.  Eventually you will run out of things that need sorting and at that point you can"just drive the damned thing", as Kirk Duncan famously once told me.

Troy, you are a car flipper and as such , I have noticed you attempt to steer business to yourself. Can you really be impartial...when finanical gain is involved ? You do not have the overhead that builders have, nor the licensing they are required to have. Walk a mile in a builders shoes.  Would you flip a JPS if the money was right? 

I would expect a new $70k Corvette to be nearly trouble free....a non production $30k car ...not so much... 

Flyenby, you are coloring so far out of the lines but that is to be expected when one verbalizes without full knowledge. Troy takes a speedster and carefully goes through it for safety and cosmetic upgrades. I know what it is like to be in the fix and polish hobby, by the time all is said and done  one may break even....sorry no yachts to date in my berth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jack,

 

You AND your car are definitely one of a kind.  I also like the way you (and most folks for that matter) let time dim the memory of difficult and unpleasant experiences.  I recall some of your tribulations, all steadfastly shared on this forum.  I think you had "your moments" along the way.  But you started out with the end in mind, and saw it through.  Getting that great motor from Jake Raby was a very smart move.  And the comfy seats.  And somebody who does not mind doing knitting in the right seat on all those many, many miles.  You have chosen well, my friend, and I look forward to catching up in person by and by.