JPS & the Green Coupe #2

I know John Steele (JPS) has painted me as unreasonable and expecting too much to some folks.

The fact is I cannot legally drive the car after 6 months due to defects (mostly minor individually, but major in aggregate). This is despite a trip back to JPS for repairs.

I contracted with JPS to build me a TURNKEY car. To me that means one that should work at least well enough to pass PA inspection and be capable of being registered and driven legally on the road. AND one I do not have to spend more time and money on to get it into legal condition.

In addition I expected a coupe to not leak.

If these are unreasonable expectations, I am unreasonable.

I am no novice. I own a 2006 Beck Speedster and am willing to do some tinkering and deal with some issues. I thought I knew what to expect from a replica and a replica builder. Even from JPS Coupe #2 . . . As an early iteration I was willing to give some leeway, but 6 months is way past reasonable, well into ridiculous.

JPS is working on a solution. Slowly. Unfortunately I am in PA and JPS is in California.

Most of the recent Coupe buyers are also in California and JPS is close enough to do the sorting work. Wish I was there too.

My advice to any JPS Coupe buyer would be to go to JPS and drive the car at least 1000 miles (some of it in the rain, probably hard to do in CA) before accepting it and shipping it home.

Gotta say I love the car. Once these issues are ironed out it will truly be one super sweet ride capable of being driven most of the year.

The other advice I would give to anyone dealing with JPS is be sure you have all you agreed to in a written contract. John tends to be overly optimistic and over promise and under deliver on what he says. He also seems very forgetful and not well organized. He genuinely wants to do well for the buyer, but his own disorganization and lack of documentation, together with his optimism gets in his way. Be sure you document everything. If you are close enough - check in often.

JPS has not abandoned me and has been working on a solution. Unfortunately it has taken some angry negotiations at times to get anything done. And it is slow. I am certainly not a top priority. It has not been fun. John would certainly like me to go away and never hear from me again.

What would I have done differently? - I wish I had done more research on JPS on the SOC forum before I had gone ahead, as I have learned my experience is not unique. I wish I had gone to CA to inspect and drive the car (preferably in the rain) before I had it shipped to me (twice).

I am posting this not to say do not deal with JPS. I simply want those interested to have the benefit of my experience. Bottom line is I love the product and what it is and can be, but I am dissatisfied with the support and performance of the builder.

Excellent job of reining in the angry parts, Tom. That's about as even-keeled a diatribe as I've ever read on this site.
Just curious. Could you drive the car through a brushless car wash as a pre-delivery test in Claifornia? Or take it to the coin-operated DIY car wash and use the pressurized sprayer?
Not to sound retarded; are the seals advertised to be all-weather, or is the assumption made before you take delivery that it's not going to resist the weather very well?

Tom -

FWIW; if for any reason you need to send the coupe back to JPS (God forbid) I would gladly be your proxy and personally check it's progress at JPS and send pic journals/reports back to you for final approval!

Cory,

If I were buying one today, I would like to see a JPS Coupe driven through about a mile or two of wet road as well as through the car wash spray a few times to know all was tight before I shipped it home to PA.

Fact is JPS never represented the car as NOT being a rain capable driver. Rain capable is an assumption any normal person would expect from a coupe and if not true should have been clearly stated in advance.

To be fair, JPS is NOT claiming anything of the kind and is working on getting it right and leak free. It is just very frustrating for me 3000 miles distant.

Sure wish I could just drop it by the JPS shop like Eddy K. or Gerd. It sucks living where it rains. If it doesn't rain, who needs a Coupe?

The car sure is a beauty though and when this is behind me . . . . Well I'm planning on driving it to Carlisle and it better be sorted by then!

Thanks Jim, but I doubt JPS is willing to do that again.

I think we are well on the way to getting it done (finally) if JPS will send us the parts we're waiting for. Frankly I think we can do it better than JPS anyway and have a better end result. Most of my issue stem purely from a lack of attention to detail both during the build and again when it was returned with a list of issues. That is the most disappointing thing about dealing with JPS. In my business when issues are pointed out I break my neck to take care of them. They become the center of attention. I just think JPS is not well organized and failed to follow through on my list of issues. Makes no sense to me why they would ship it back and then ignore things . . . I was pressuring them for a speedy return, but wanted it done right.

Tom,

Since last report (many months ago, at what must have been near the bottom of realtions w/ JPS) I have been worrying about your state of affairs. Frankly, was affraid to ask. I detect a ray of hope in your post above, as you have decided to take things as they are, and deal directly w/ them yourself. Too bad it has been so painful. On the other hand, it is good to hear your enthusiasm for the concept still alive and well, and of course I look fwd to seeing you and the car at Carlisle this spring. I suppose JPS will be there too -- I wonder how that will spin out?? Think he'll come looking for either of us? He has twice promised to buy me a beer and tell me all the true details associated with the trouble getting my car painted. We'll see.

PS: The car should not leak -- period. And it should pass your local inspection process. Sounds pretty simple to me.

Well Tom I am glad you have the car back again. I know the guys here will be able to help you out with any remaining issues. There are a lot of smart and/or experienced people here.

What are some of the specific issues other than leaks. I especially would like to know why it won't pass inspection in PA. What gives?

Danny, Issues are as I said - minor individually and major in aggregate. Working wipers is a key requisite for PA State Inspection. Mine have never worked more than 5 minutes at a time. Without this resolved, no inspection. JPS is sending a new setup - still waiting for it. Working wipers are essential to a coupe in the rain, according to the State of Pennsylvania.

Rain-X works wonders, especially at speed.

Tom:

In the FWIW department: I'm using a wiper set from Specialty Power Windows - they make a full line of wipers and power window kits for Street Rods. 2-speed with washer support, ALWAYS works for as long as it takes, and it can be (more-or-less) easily adapted to a 356 (my motor is above the passenger's feet, behind the dash).

http://www.specialtypowerwindows.com/powerwiperkits.htm

Of course, there's no reason that a VW wiper set-up shouldn't work, too.

Alan Merklin and I took a close look at the Silver coupe that John brought to Carlisle, and we were both pretty surprised to see the lack of attention to detail. If you're bringing a car to an event to show off your workmanship and attract customers, then I always expect the best thing that can be produced by that company. The silver coupe had chintzy window seals, lots of adhesive showing both inside and out, things that weren't straight and so forth. We were not impressed. I guess, neither are you...

gn

Gordon,

Alan pointed out some of that stuff to me on the silver car at Carlisle and I was concerned for my upcoming car, but most i(f not all) of the fit issues were much improved on my car. Still many little build issues where ignored and remained unimportant to JPS even on the return trip to his shop.

Rocky C. just gave it a detailed once over and thought mine was a great improvement over the silver one. Once we get about a dozen minor issues sorted she should be good. I'm looking forward to showing it to everyone at Carlisle and getting some insights from you then.

Tom, sorry to hear of your disappointment. I am in the process of convincing my wife to take my speedster so I can buy a coupe. I love the look of your coupe and am seriously considering getting one. Since JPS (to my knowledge) is the only one building coupes, I am very sorry to hear of their lack of quality and poor attention to detail.

If the can't stand behind their product for you, I won't take the chance of buying from them.

Bob,

You are close enough to come see my car. I will be happy to give you all the details so you can make an informed decision. Just know there is an open invitation. Maybe we could get together for a cruise sometime. Were you at Carlisle last year?

Tom. Appriciate the offer. I wasn't at Carlisle last year. Picked up my first speedster a few months ago. I'm trying to get it together for this year's Carlisle event. I learned the hard way what to look for in a speedster. It should be complete by april. Will definately see you there.

Im not surprised at the amount of sorting that these cars take, as I took delivery of my Intermeccanica speedster just within the last two weeks. I went to Vancouver before delivery to work out the details. Henry put 450 break-in miles on the car to make sure it all worked as advertised. It DOES. My only concern is being on the East coast, far away from the IM shop. These cars cost REAL money, the builder should be responsive and fix the issue at hand. They are HIS issues too, being short -sighted about keeping your customer base happy, will shorten your life span. Im sure there are people who are now shying away from JPS as a builder. John only has himself to blame. Then again, maybe he dosen't really care.

$100 says JPS will not attend Carlisle this year.


Any takers?---jack

Jack: You might want to bring an extra C-note with you.

All of these cars will require sorting because they are not produced on assembly lines, and have a lot of hand fitting done. With IM the cost is such that Henry will keep the car until all of the sorting is complete. Other manufacturers aren't able to do so for reasons of cost, personnel, or whatever. In those cases it's the after-delivery support that defines the manufacturer. I know who I like.

Re. JPS and Carlisle: My bet is that he'll be there, but he won't come to our dinner.

I'll bet he is there. Not sure he'll be talking to me, as I have been a HUGE pain in his a$$ and will continue to be until I get my issues resolved.

I tried very hard to work with him quietly and let his support do what it should do. I expected to have issues BUT, I also expected to be treated like a valued customer as I have been treated elsewhere and as I do in with my customers in my own business.

No one is perfect and stuff happens. The RV business is full of sorting issues on new expensive RVs. It's how you deal with them that matters.

I was hopeful when JPS shipped the car back to fix issues that they were responsive and accountable. That was a HUGE opportunity lost (by JPS) to keep a customer happy and to really shine in the support role.

Grade I'd give JPS on customer support is a D-.

When it comes to support - I'm with Lane. I know who I like.

Bill--will do--I guess this means you are taking my bet---who should hold our money?---Jack

No, Jack, just suggesting you be prepared for whomever does, but I do feel your "bet" would have been better off left to yourself, you being a newbie and all. Just sayin....

As a Carlisle co-organizer, I wouldn't want any of this to keep John from coming.
John and his wife like to come to Carlisle. And it's good he comes as the other builders do to further the hobby.
He's been at all of the dinners that I can remember the past 5 years and don't think this issue would or should change anything.

This isn't the first issue here someone had with their car from one of the builders.

Carlisle is a gathering for all of us to meet up and enjoy a weekend of FUN with each other, NOT to forum or harbor any ill feelings.

~(Wild)Bill

Jack, we trust ya......Honest!

On another note:

Several members of the TYP356 Club in New England (and one non-member that I know) have gotten new replicas in the past few years. Some from Beck, some from Intermeccanica and one from VS. ALL had minor issues to get sorted out, and all were taken care of by the manufacturers. (and these are all owners of original Steel 356's, too....they just wanted a car that they weren't afraid to drive).

Most (with one exception) were happy with the experience, realizing that these are hand-built cars and not everything is going to be perfect with them when received, but the manufacturers went over the top to either find local people who they can pay to fix customer problems, or they offer (as John and the others do) to ship the car back to their shop and make it right. This has usually corrected the problems, and the customer is happy.

The one unhappy person that I've heard of in New England bought an IM with the expectation of it being a sole, daily driver. IMHO....this is not what I would expect to do with most of these cars, although IM and SAS are two exceptions, especially if they have roll-up side windows. This person is also not a TYP356 club member (to fall back on for advice and help), nor a "Hands-On" fixit person, preferring, instead, to have others work on the car, oil changes included, so the frustration level on even little things runs high. I know that Henry has gone way beyond what I would have expected for this customer, but still without total satisfaction.

I guess this just talks to levels of expectations not being in sync with reality. In the case above, they were miles apart. In Tom's case, I believe those two were in sync, but John's environment to deal with it has a different perspective than Tom's (or the rest of us, for that matter).

I expect to see him at Carlisle, too........should be an interesting meet...

Never met John, but I have seen some of his work. You don't need to look any further than Leaders 2 speedsters to see the quality that comes out of John's shop. I think the fact that he even attempted the "coupe" thing, is to his credit. I would never buy the first or even second of anything, they would never be what the following pieces will be. (perhaps collectors one day)
Distance is another issue in this case, but unfortunetly there isn't much that can be done about that....
I can't see how John would be very comfortable at Carlisle after the way some of you have raked him over the coals....based on one car, and only the second one made....
It's a sad day.....

Good points, Vince. I hope I didn't come off as too critical. In the small amounts of business I've had with John, he's been stand-up with me. Probably the only person on this thread with the right to harbor a strong opinion either way is Tom.

Vince,
I have to disagree with some of what you said. I agree John is capable of some fine work. That

Bottom line is I gave JPS more than a few chances to resolve all my issues quietly and positively. I always felt I should treat him the way I would want to be treated if I were in his shoes. It is a position I find myself in I my own business from time to time. I have always believed you get farther with honey than with vinegar. It was only when that strategy failed that I got angry. Finally when he chose to trash me to other JPS customers I decided to abandon my silence.

Others (some visit this site) have had similar experiences with JPS. I know I am not the only one.

He can and does build a fine car. And support may be fine too for some, especially those in California. But is has not been good for me and pales in comparison to what I have experienced elsewhere.

Does accurately reporting my experience mean I am trashing him? I only wish I had read something like this before I went forward. If I had decided to go forward I would have been better prepared for the result and had more realistic expectations of JPS.

I hope JPS comes to Carlisle and I will be happy to shake his hand and will be proud to be the owner of JPS Coupe #2 . . . so long as I get my issues resolved by then. (SOONER I HOPE!)

Tom,
I don't fault you for what you are saying. If it was my car I'd be so far up John's Ass, he wouldn't be able to see straight. Especially if I wasn't getting the service I thought I deserved.
I'm just saying the circumstances of your perticular build is rather unique.
Like I said earlier, I don't know John, but I was very impressed with some of the cars that he has built.
That's all.....

Tom,
Did you ever threaten to involve an attorney in the process?
If so, at what stage?

Not to beat a dead horse, but in the past threads, well before you took delivery, some of us made suggestions to you and Kelly regarding sorting out the cars before delivery.
I'm not defending John, he's an adult and he should act like one. But I did speak from experience when I made my comments before.

Kelly's car should have had only minor issues which could have been worked out before delivery if a couple hundred test miles had been run while in California.
Your situation is different because of the unknown factor in purchasing a prototype. John certainly would have been smarter if he had refused to sell the coupe replica to anyone out of state until he had a dozen or so built for local customers.
Do yourself a favor. Compare the cost of a fully sorted IM to the final price of yours. If it's real close, go after JPS with all you got. If it's not, cut off all dealings with JPS, take some of the savings and have someone local bring it up to your expectations. You'll be a lot happier.

Two days ago, I had a very long post written, and up on the site for about 5 minutes before I took it down. I'll try to sum it up without getting too deep into it.

In 2002, I too was an out of state JPS customer with some special requests (a Fibersteel Glaspar hardtop custom fitted to the car). In defense of Tom-- when John Steele starts with his pitch, he is very persuasive. I too was very disappointed. I too vowed to use all my tools of persuasion to get the situation resolved. But, in the end-- I took a good hard look at the car, and realized that it would NEVER be what I hoped it would be.

I also remember the run-up to the delivery of Tom's car, when enthusiasm and anticipation and hyperbole were running high. It was the season of the JPS tech-bubble. Several people (me included) DID try to warn Tom. I've been posting about my JPS "hardtop fiasco" for 5 years, to the point of nearly being a one-note-Johnny. Several of us also posted at length about the ABSOLUTE IMPERATIVE of going to California and doing a pre-delivery inspection. We posted from experience, with nothing to gain by it.

However, everybody assumes that they are different when they have their dream-car in the sights. Everyone truly believes that THEY will be the one to get JPS to build the car-of-their-dreams, rather than the car John Steele is satisfied to give them. It rarely (never?) happens for out of state buyers. At the time, I said, "John Steele is at his best when the option list is kept short". It was true then, and I assume it's true now. When I offered that particular observation, Gerd claimed I wanted to stick an ice pick in John's ear. That part wasn't ever true. I DID wish John had given me the car I paid dearly for back in 2002, but wishing can't change the past, and it's water over the dam for me now. I've moved on.

John Steele builds cars the way he wants to, as he always has. He puts time and effort into the things HE thinks matters. If a customer's priorities line up with John's he'll end up happy with the end result. If not? Tom could send that car back to JPS 100 times, and the stuff John didn't think mattered would still be left undone.

The bottom line is: John Steele will always be John Steele. He cannot be changed by threats or persuasive arguments. The car Tom got is the car JPS builds-- a good looking, fundamentally flawed fair weather toy. The world doesn't need a leaky replica coupe, but that's what JPS will always build, whether it's #2, or #222.

As I've said many times before during and after this whole episode: forewarned is forearmed.

PS: This would be the part where I pontificate about how much I like my Intermeccanica, but I've been told no one wants to hear it. Dealing with Henry Reisner was everything dealing with John Steele never could be. Henry is a man of his word, and a real craftsman. It didn't cost that much more money. It was worth every hard-earned, blue-collar penny.

So Stan, you are right of course. The deal here is expectations vs. delivery. Running-in (or sorting out) is the key complaint here wrt JPS modus operandi, at least in these two cases. Also the part about saying one thing, and doing another; promisses missed. Hard lessons learned. You get the car John knows how to build -- which, since it is he that builds 'em, seems an obvious conclusion, if you think about it. To say he puts up a fair weather toy, is a fair statement -- the man lives in SoCal, so what else could be expected? Please also note that Tom and I both still love our cars, and think they are way cool. Was I disapointed that I had a few too many maladjustments in my unit? yes, it is true. On the other hand, having owned two used P-cars in another lifetime, I knew what I was getting into: you will have to tinker. I was prepared to do that, just not so much all at once. Was I pissed at John on a few occassions? Yes. Do I think he delivered an unacceptable POS? No. He is not Henry, and does not want to be. The differences center around cost/price. John's business model calls for affordability. He claims to have been doing this for 17 years, so I guess something is working. He also claims this business is fun, and it does not make him rich. I think I believe that too.

Well, it has been raining here in the La La land since Monday, however, I still have not taken my coupe#3 in the rain. Knowing that the wiper is only 1 speed (slow), the defroster barely blows air causing the windscreen to fog up in 5 minutes and the fact that LA drivers does not know how to drive in the rain, I am not willing to risk driving my coupe in the rain.

Please understand what I am writing below is not to defend or offend anybody, but I am just writing based on my experience with coupe #3

A lot what has been said here is true in my experience dealing with John. He is overly optimistic on what he can do and the time he can do it. He is (a bit) unorganized, tends to forget what you asked him to do, etc. He also believes on what he is doing is the right thing. However, that being said, I also believe that he cares what his customers thinks about his cars and he will try to satisfy his customers.

My hat's off to Tom in trusting John to build his coupe living so far away. If it is not for his car, I might still be on the fence in getting mine. I saw his being built and also coupe#1 and his is much better quality (at least as far as the eye can see). One of the reason I went ahead with my order is due to the close distance where he builds his car. If it wasn't that close, I would not even consider getting mine. Even at this time, I would not even consider getting an IM as it is way too far for me even though, as I understand, is the gold standard of the 356 replica.

Do I have some teething problem, yes of course. Like so many of you say many times, it really depends on what you expect. After reading many postings here and before I put my money for my coupe, I formed my expectations on what the car is going to be. Since my expectation more or less is met by the result, I am happy with coupe #3. Is it perfect? No, not even for me, but here is where the tinkering comes in.

Do I think Tom is justified to be mad with the service that he gets? Yes, I believe so. We have communicated a few times via email and I understand where he is coming from and I truly feel bad for him. However, if I am not mistaken some of the main issues why the car was brought back to LA were fixed. I believe among other things the blown oil gasket, the ripped fiberglass at the back and some of the brake issue, although the last one I believe might not be completely fixed.

BTW : one time I asked John if the coupe is waterproof, and he smiled and said (and I paraphrase here as I don't remember the exact word), it is water resistant. I know first hand how difficult it is to make a car watertight. I used to have a Renault 5 living in the tropics with the bucket of rainfall, the water just seeps all over the car. Keep in mind that John does not have much experience in making a waterproof car as all the speedster that he built before will almost never be driven in the rain as they will be leaking from the roof like crazy. He even admits that most of his speedster is not even windproof, meaning there are a lot of air coming to the cabin. So he is learning how to make his coupe as watertight & airtight as possible as he builds the coupe. The last coupe that he is currently building has better rubber seal around the back opening window than mine. So I believe the quality will get better the more he builds the coupe.

Anyway, if it is still raining this weekend, I will try to take my coupe for a drive in the rain and maybe report back.

Peace

gerrit, STOP USING LOWER CASE, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE whispering!

When it is 42 deg and raining sideways, any air or water leak will become immediately apparent. There are many parts of this country where the weather is miserable for 6 months a year or more.

Most speedster owners compromise a good deal of weather protection for the near-perfection that comes when the car is cruising along with the top down. The top never comes down on a coupe, so the calculus changes. The world isn't clamoring for a leaky coupe, since a buyer is sacrificing the best part of owning a replica (the top down part) so he can actually use the car.

A coupe buyer presupposes weather protection. What other possible reason is there for buying one?

I have to add my sixpence worth, regarding why I would buy a coupe! For me the coupe is absolutely stunning! I would buy one in a flash if I could get my hands on one, whether its a replica or not. I have a mental picture of a serious outlaw coupe in my mind that won't go away! I would however find it very hard to butcher an original to my idea of an outlaw!

Without being able understand the cost of the car in your currency I can't comment on the product that has been received. I just hope that all the parties involved manage to get it sorted out without too many tears.

I also beleive that other posts made by third parties in this forum could make matters worse than they appear to be at the moment.

Here's hopping that the car gets sorted one way or the other.

Is fucken German for fuckin?

I agree with Stan. Why should anyone have to wonder about basic car design as a hit or miss affair? Wipers should wipe, heater/defroster should do its job, and the cabin should stay tight and dry. Is this too much to ask? My IM speedster does all these things exceedingly well. Damn, I drove my car the other day in 15 degree weather, no draft, good heat(from the seat too!) I have windsheild washers that actually work well. All this in a speedster. Dont build a coupe until you've worked out the kinks. Hit or miss? for this kind of money? I wont sign up for that. Get a real 356 coupe,at least you can complain about 50-60's tech, and the car will appreciate!

I am really sorry I started this thread. I preferred to work quietly with JPS to get this resolved privately. JPS pushed me over the edge with the unreasonable bit.

Yes, I discussed with legal council my options and decided to try to work things out one more time. This is my dream car and I really want to keep it, not return it, but am continually frustrated by JPS lack of support. In November, I sent a certified letter to JPS demanding resolution or a refund. In December JPS contracted with local assistance to tackle my issues. Parts are supposed to be on the way.

None of my issues is major and really none are what I would consider "prototype" issues. ALL are lack of attention to details and ALL I could have dealt with myself IF JPS had provided timely support and direction. I asked for drawings or photos of how the body floor and such were assembled to help me isolate the leaks. Weeks went by with no help and when they did come were confusing and JPS offered little had no patience for me and gave me little help in understanding them. I asked for some parts to be shipped. Again weeks went by before I got some and then did not get all I needed. I always had to prod and eventually get somewhat angry to get anything done. Not fun.

When the car went back for repairs, and only the oil leak was really addressed. Almost all my minor issues were ignored. My wipers failed after 5 minutes in the rain AFTER JPS repaired them once.

During the purchase and build process I was constantly promised dates that never came to be and prices for options that I had to fight over later. I am still fighting with JPS over a quoted 24-month engine warranty (in writing in an email) that turned out to be only 12-months.
JPS has a real problem with accuracy and consistently over-promised and under-delivered on promises and representations. Fortunately, I did most of my corresponding via email and had a good record of all conversations. Wish he had disclosed to me "water resistant". He never said that to me - ever.

Why he would not want to do a better job supporting a new product is an incredible mystery to me.

I bought a Beck in August 2006 and have had only FANTASTIC support from Carey Hines and Special Edition. Yes, I had issues with that car too. But Carey understands support. By comparison - JPS does not have a clue.

Gerd, I am happy JPS has been great to you. My experience is a lot different.
Stan, you did try to warn me and you hit the nail on the head.

This will be my final post on this thread. I hope to see you all in Carlisle with my Coupe and a report that JPS finally came through.

Tom,
There have been half a dozen times I started to chime in here and let it go until this evening.
There is no need to apologize for starting this thread. Your concerns were and are certainly valid ones . You took it upon yourself as a gentleman and fellow business owner to resolve these problems quietly unfortunately, this too did not live up to your reasonable expectations.
At this point in time you are doing potential owners a great service by disclosing your valid problems. To me, this is... a heads up to make others aware of what to look for. It is reasonable to expect a safe and drivable vehicle no matter whom the vendor may be.
Ye who say's "How dare you" just have a need to blow steam as there will always be key board politicians who just have to be heard.
Glad that you are now getting assistance from northern neighbor. As I previously mentioned, if my business allowed the time away I would need, I would have been glad to work with you on this. ~Alan

Tom--you missed the point of my offer to bet that John would not attend Carlisle. I was pointing out that he was taking a load of heat---and some of it from folks without a dog in that fight. I believe you thought I meant he would be to embarassed to come. Re reading my post made me feel it easily could have been misunderstood. My bad for lack of clarity.

There are many owners of this brand of car that are satisfied and others that aren't. That seems to be true of almost every brand of Speedster replica. I imagine John will be there and look foward to seeing a coupe replica.

Jack the "Newbie" ----just sayin'