JPS Motorsports: A New Saga

What a low-down lousy scum bag this John Steele is. In a way his response to you incriminates him by telling you he knows how to manipulate the court and law to swindle people like you out of their hard-earned money. A con man for sure and guys like him shouldn't be allowed to get away with this type of thing. I hated reading your story and got angry as I read it. I hope you can get some type of relieve in this matter. I wish you had found this forum before you gave him any money. This hobby is full of wonderful vendors, and you happened to walk into one of the two that are crooks. Please keep us posted on your progress. I hope you have the means to press on to getting the car of your dreams. Life is too short to waste it waiting for the law to punish a snake like this guy. Karma will eventually catch up to people like this. You can't keep breaking spiritual laws or men's laws without consequences.

He's clearly earned the title "Mr. Hyde and Dr. Jeckel!"

Wow. John is still John.

So sorry, Larry. I really am. I wouldn’t wish a John Steele experience on an enemy.

@WOLFGANG posted:

He's clearly earned the title "Mr. Hyde and Dr. Jeckel!"

One of these days Dr Jeckel is going to introduce Mr Hide to the wrong guy. The kind of guy who doesn’t make “idle” threats. Or use lawyers.

... and yet, once upon a time, and on many occasions over the years, JPS Motorsports  has produced some very nice cars. Lately, and that means the past several years, it has not been so great, as I hear it.  I have a 2006  JPS, and my dealings with him were reasonable ... until they were not.  My issues were not with ordering , specifying, or delivery, but rather shoddy sorting.  There were a number of "quality control" issues after the car was delivered.  And with JPS on west coast and me on east coast, that left a lot for me to do.  Again, he supported me in all of that up to a point, then Dr. Jeckle  turned into Mr. Hyde and we parted ways on what I would describe as inimical terms.  But I did get a car that, ultimately, is what I was looking for, and works like it should. That he has descended into such overt con-man behavior sounds pretty awful. I hope you do not end up in court, and all the smoke he's blowing about that should not divert you from the goal here.  Documentation will be key.

@Larry H. I hope you forwarded that email to your lawyer friend. I’m pretty sure that’s what they call prima facie evidence of fraud.

@Larry H  sorry to read another story such as this...because i lived it myself....i'm the one who coined him "Dr Jekyll /Mr. Hyde"....my car is a 2018 delivered coupe....i'm not sure how many cars were delivered after mine since my dealings with this piece of work became just a painful memory after my "warranty" expired...my story is well documented here if you care to do a search...i can't tell you anything you don't already know...except i wish you well with the knowledge it wasn't just you..it was nearly  EVERYONE that dealt with him!

way back when on my 1st Speedster purchase I flew to LA to stop by JPS and Kirks to decide,,,,after I went to JPSfirst I bought from Kirk...bad vibes from him and his business. Too bad hes still screwing people out of $$ and their "dreams".

I am so very sorry that you are going through this.   People on this forum have seen this over and over again and always the victim finds this forum when it’s too late, their money already lost.  Know that you are not alone (I realize that is not much help) but John Steele has been preying, of late, on people who don’t come here first.   If they DO come here first, we do our best to dissuade them from him and point them to Vintage Motorcars or Beck and away from JPS and/or SAS in Knoxville, another shister boondoggle, and a few others that we’ve heard of.

Help others.  Get a good lawyer and go after Steele.  All of what he typed is true, but your lawyer may see this as a legal challenge and go after him, as Steele deserves.  After legal fees you probably won’t recover much but you might save someone else from the same fate, and that mean a lot.

Welcome to our group.  You get props for just finding us.

Unfortunately,  the way he explained the process is pretty much the way it will play out. Someone else mentioned "documentation",  this is important so keep records. He is too !  The more dialog you can engage him with the better. Until he reaches the point that he disengages it with you and then that can even work in your favor. Go after him.  I would love to see a California Superior Court Judge get screwed by him. There would be no legal, financial, moral,  or personal justice not levied on his miserable soul !

Folks, all of your input is greatly appreciated, and while I am sorry that this is far more widespread than I would like to believe, it certainly cements the case against Steele. I find it amazing that he has gotten away with this for so long. One 356 operator told me he had filed bankruptcy in the past.  So I contacted some business friends in SoCal and just filed a complaint via the DA thru the DMV, as it pertains to Autos.

I might suggest that everyone who has had an issue with JPS do the same, it takes less than 10 minutes.

I'll advise how this all plays out, but I have business contacts, an attorney, and advising the DA thus far.  FB is next, as his fraud is evident and should not be a vendor on FB.

Best wishes,
Larry.  

dmv.ca.gov

go to the site above and there is an investigative page.

It's likely going to be very expensive to recover. His email does not indicate good faith. He needs to be sued for fraud, interest on your money, lost time, court and attorney cost and what ever else you can think of.

I don't understand how you could have allowed him to get that far ahead of you. I had to tell a Billion dollar business, several years ago, who wanted to hold my payment for 90 days on a project which I was consulting. I did inform them that I was  not in the habit of financing a billion dollar company. Got my check quickly and performed no other work for them.

I've not bought a new Speedster form anyone. Money up front may be the norm. When I pay for something I take possession! 10% might be a reasonable deposit; balance on delivery.

When they have your money you're at their mercy!

I've built one and bought two.

Lots of folks get into this hobby not understanding what is involved. That's why so many of these cars are sold with 2-3,000 miles on the odometer. A well cared for, used vehicle that has been loved by the owner is a much better buy. The bugs will be worked out, you can have it today for LOTS less than a new "factory built" project. Regardless of who builds it; it's still a kit car.

Jim-

Deposits are customary in lots of businesses. I have a bid out right now for an insurance job - the terms are 50% on acceptance, 50% on completion because 75% of the job cost is material. Just because somebody is asking for a deposit, doesn't make them a criminal.

But there's a fine line between normal business practice and a ponzi scheme. JPS takes it to an extreme, and by the time he's got half of the money, it turns into a hostage negotiation.

@Stan Galat  unlike you dear leader.....Dr. jekyll / Mr. Hyde has for some time now shown his inability to rule over his regime & domain....he has also for some time now used PETER to pay PAUL which is obviously unsustainable....at some point he is going to have his MINIONS & DISLOYAL SUBJECTS STORMING his GATES,,,which rarely ends well.....he really needs to read the book 'tale of two cities"

@Stan Galat posted:

Jim-

Deposits are customary in lots of businesses. I have a bid out right now for an insurance job - the terms are 50% on acceptance, 50% on completion because 75% of the job cost is material. Just because somebody is asking for a deposit, doesn't make them a criminal.

But there's a fine line between normal business practice and a ponzi scheme. JPS takes it to an extreme, and by the time he's got 80% of your money, it turns into a hostage negotiation.

Stan, our business' are likely very different. I have consulted on many multi-million projects for the past 30 years. Large construction relies on the ability of the contractor to be financially responsible. There is NO payment until some work is completed. A Performance & Payment Bond is required to the total amount of the job. Most projects require a 10% retainage until the work is 50% compete. You bill $30,000 you get paid $27,000, until that time. If a contractor fails the owner still has the bond to completely the job.

Any time the provider has all of your money, you're screwed! If that does not apply to the toy car market then I stand corrected. When you buy at auction it's cash on delivery. Why would anyone of us not expect that. You sell your car you want to be PAID NOW.

Financing someone else's business is foolish. I can make enough foolish mistakes on my own without any help. Buying a car that I may not receive in 12 is not one of them.

GM is not building these cars! If we get stuck it's our own fault.

@Larry H

There is a lot of information in your original post that can be very helpful to you.  I went through something similar back in the 1990's when Classic Motor Carriages (CMC) in Miami was imploding.  Eventually they became unresponsive to emails or surface mail but I had kept everything they ever sent me and, working with the Postmaster General for the Southeast, we had a very strong case for mail fraud (from their letter correspondence) and wire fraud (from their emails and faxes) and what helped me the most were their own comments and invoices (showing parts that never shipped).  I had access to a very good Corporate Lawyer who came up with great advice, too.

Once the Feds got involved, along with the Attorney General for Florida and the DA for Dade County, CMC set up a temporary business to resolve all of their backorders and undelivered cars and parts in lieu of facing a Federal case for wire/mail fraud.  The county and state might put up with legal maneuverings to delay things (mostly because the state courts systems are constantly overwhelmed), but the Feds sure didn't, so that may be a help to you as well.  

Good luck with this, and search around on FB to see if there is a page for people screwed by JPS.  I know there is one for SAS/SAW/Steve Lawing in Tennessee, so there might be a JPS one as well.  He certainly deserves it.

Many of us have run or owned businesses and should know through those experiences that whether it involves government snafus, business dealings, personal conflicts or family disputes...there is one cosmic truth to be realized:

What is RIGHT...and what is LAW are two totally separate orbits!

Thanks Gordon, that is a very helpful post. We've seen a few responses who do not understand custom build or restoration processes.  I have friends that restore Auburns and Packards, and obviously hundreds of thousands are tied up until completion. But this is the difference between a professional reliable shop such as LaVines, and a scammer like Steele.   JPS promised a refund, then said a check was going out, now says he is broke!  It is not an option for him to think he will keep people's monies without anything to show for it.  It's interesting that you mention the chap in TN, as I had chatted with him and he was not impressed with Steele, even said he thought JPS had gone bankrupt. Conversely, I called Rod Emory and he was above board and very helpful, a true professional.

@Jim Gilbert - Madison, Mississippi posted:

Stan, our business' are likely very different.

Everybody's is. That's the point.

I get to make up my terms, based on who I'm doing business with. Generally, it's 30 days net, but sometimes there are special circumstances.

Both Vintage Motorcars and Special Edition take a deposit - it might be nominal (in the case of Special Edition), but it's always at least $5000. This doesn't make them crooks, because they both have a history of performing on contracts. In this business, if you order new that's your option. If the process makes anybody uncomfortable, they should buy used.

JPS has skirted the law because he has typically delivered something in the end. It might not be what the buyer wanted or what was agreed to, but this whole business has a lot less protections built into it than the typical plan and spec large construction process (which is what you went into in detail).

It appears that John is circling the drain (again) and not even doing the halfway job he's done in the past. That's new, and makes this post very good information.

As for this quote, we're going to need to agree to disagree that it's anything to hold up:

@Jim Gilbert - Madison, Mississippi posted:

Large construction relies on the ability of the contractor to be financially responsible. There is NO payment until some work is completed. A Performance & Payment Bond is required to the total amount of the job. Most projects require a 10% retainage until the work is 50% compete. You bill $30,000 you get paid $27,000, until that time. If a contractor fails the owner still has the bond to completely the job.

I know all of that.

I also think it's not an awesome system, because all the protections are on the side of the guys with all the money (the client and the GC). It's why I did not take my Dad's commercial plumbing business, even though I might have made more money doing it.

The commercial plan/spec construction system asks the "fiscally responsible" contractor to be the bank for the project. It stinks to be the subcontractor with a lot of costs in a job, left holding the bag for the last 10% retainage from the GC until the painters make it through punch-list 10 months after you were finished. It kinda/sorta works because everybody rolls fat into the job, knowing that the hairy chested GC is going to sit on their payments forever. Of course, it's possible to sue - but then the lawyers eat any profit you might have had in the job. The commercial construction subcontracting business is one bad job away from bankruptcy, all the time.

I've got zero interest in that.

@Larry H if speedster ownership is a dream you have been pursuing, I sincerely hope you find a way to persevere until it comes true.

For inspiration, consider our own @Techdave who was swindled by Vintage Speedsters of Arizona not long ago.  While continuing to explore avenues for at least partial financial recovery, he refused to give in and is now the owner of a used, beautiful speedster.  The smile on his face during a recent group canyon run says it all.  

I wish you the best of luck and look forward to a similar photo of you in your new ride.

I'd be curious as to what avenues he used and what he was able to recover. It's a pity, these first can make a nice living from these cars in an honest manner, and yet they swindle people. Who made that beautiful 356 in the photo??

@Larry H posted:

Folks, all of your input is greatly appreciated, and while I am sorry that this is far more widespread than I would like to believe, it certainly cements the case against Steele. I find it amazing that he has gotten away with this for so long. One 356 operator told me he had filed bankruptcy in the past.  So I contacted some business friends in SoCal and just filed a complaint via the DA thru the DMV, as it pertains to Autos.

I might suggest that everyone who has had an issue with JPS do the same, it takes less than 10 minutes.

I'll advise how this all plays out, but I have business contacts, an attorney, and advising the DA thus far.  FB is next, as his fraud is evident and should not be a vendor on FB.

Best wishes,
Larry.  

dmv.ca.gov

go to the site above and there is an investigative page.

Larry, I’d strongly advise posting anything regarding this on social media. As a matter of fact, I’m surprised your lawyer hasn’t advised you about being careful about what you post here. Truth or lack there of has no bearing in a person’s ability to file a defamation suit, which require legal fees to defend.  

I believe his speedster was built by Vintage Speedsters before the move to Arizona but I’m not certain.  

You can send him a private message if you wish for more information.  From the drop down menu, click Post Content, then Private Message.  Enter his screen name (as you type,  a list of valid names will appear, find TechDave and click it).  Enter a subject line and then your message, then send (sorry Dave - I hope this is OK).

@dlearl476 posted:

Larry, I’d strongly advise against posting anything regarding this on social media. As a matter of fact, I’m surprised your lawyer hasn’t advised you about being careful about what you post here. Truth or lack there of has no bearing in a person’s ability to file a defamation suit, which require legal fees to defend.  

Is this what you intended to type?

Defamation is based on false statements, I have dozens of false statements by Steele that clearly support my position. California also has Consumer Protections in place. I appreciate the advice.

@Stan Galat posted:

Both Vintage Motorcars and Special Edition take a deposit - it might be nominal (in the case of Special Edition), but it's always at least $5000. This doesn't make them crooks, because they both have a history of performing on contracts. In this business, if you order new that's your option. If the process makes anybody uncomfortable, they should buy used.

I think asking a 10% deposit is a perfectly reasonable practice. Imagine how long either would last if Carey or Greg started building a car for every Tom, Dick, and Harry that sent them an “I’ve always wanted a Speedster” email along with an order form. Like the saying says: “Money talks, bulls**t walks.”

But if I’m reading Larry’s OP correctly, he paid in full for his Speedster. IMO, that, or even 50%, is a giant red flag that someone is operating a Ponzi scheme. They need the money, not to build your car, but to finish the ones before yours to get those buyers off their back.

Like they say: “Buyer Beware.” It’s just so sad so many people don’t check in here first, and continue to be taken advantage of by these con men.

I'm working for a custom machine builder (think machines that makes product, not machine that is the product) and we typically set terms at 25-30% down, 25-30% at material release to purchase, 25-30% at factory acceptance, and the remainder at delivery.  Net 30 to Net 60 depending on customer (and customer's history)  We have some customers that are Cash upfront only.. and some that get 50% down-50% @ delivery terms, but mostly we try to break up into 4 chunks to keep cash flow going and cover materials...  The key is showing progress and hitting clear milestones.  I'm under the impression this is not happening in Mr Steele's business.

@Wrenn Smith posted:

I'm working for a custom machine builder (think machines that makes product, not machine that is the product) and we typically set terms at 25-30% down, 25-30% at material release to purchase, 25-30% at factory acceptance, and the remainder at delivery.  Net 30 to Net 60 depending on customer (and customer's history)  We have some customers that are Cash upfront only.. and some that get 50% down-50% @ delivery terms, but mostly we try to break up into 4 chunks to keep cash flow going and cover materials...  The key is showing progress and hitting clear milestones.  I'm under the impression this is not happening in Mr Steele's business.

^ That.

The problem here is that JPS always makes it sound as if milestones have been reached. If you are an out-of-town client, there's no way to verify that they have been reached to the satisfaction of everybody.

At the end of the day, all a client has is the builder's reputation.

I used to think that shady practices would catch up with JPS - but this is not a normal business.

Speedster builders are selling dreams, and dreamers see things through the lens of their desire. Guys who would never be taken for a ride buying a lawnmower or water heater can be fleeced by a greaseball because they want the thing so much.

It's like the power beautiful women have. They make smart guys do things they wouldn't do otherwise. 

@Larry H posted:

Defamation is based on false statements, I have dozens of false statements by Steele that clearly support my position. California also has Consumer Protections in place. I appreciate the advice.

Defamation suits can be brought against true statements. See:Donald J Trump vs E Jean Carroll.

AFAIK, Lawyers don’t give a discount when the law is on your side.

@Jon T posted:

Is this what you intended to type?

Yes. The internet is forever. And for every F Lee Bailey, there are 10 Saul Goodmans.

And remember: our legal system is often mistakenly referred to as a “justice” system.

Larry - Like in Poker --- never show your opponent what you have in your hand.  I'm sure Mr. Hyde reads this forum and takes notes.  Yup, he's a snake.

Jon,

Thanks for the kind words. This story sounds so familiar to what I and many others went though with Matt, (VS). I made a decision to be happy or continue to be miserable. I am lucky that I was able to pull the trigger on another car and enjoy life again. The reason for the smile on my face was visioning Matt as a speed bump, that I just drove over! I guess I am still not fully over it.

Jon,

One correction, my car was actually built by Vintage Motorcars. I purchased it through RPM Motors in Sherman Oaks, CA. The original owner bought it through Hubbard Motors.

Stan, An honest contractor has nothing to fear other than his estimate. Finish the job on time and get paid. Often with a bonus. Nothing that is built is done any different unless it's cost plus. Now that requires honesty on all sides! It's pretty simple. For the most part I have enjoyed working with honest people. If you want to finance someone's business, please go right ahead.

Remember the Golden Rule. It applies to absolutely everything.

Those of you who expect these guys to finally get theirs forget the legal system you live under- both of them have figured out how to use the protection of the law to their advantage and are protected from law abiding citizens being able to claim that which is rightfully theirs.  I've suggested it before and here it is again- what douche bags like this need, deserve, and 1 of the few things that they'll truly understand is a surprise visit with a swing of a baseball bat being the start of the conversation (so you're showing you really do mean business) and then the words "You said I'd get my deposit back- if I have to get it all with this Louisville Slugger it's gonna take a while, and boy, it's gonna be messy...".

A surprise visit from a baseball bat…don’t tell your mama about this !

All prospective buyers have to do the work… pay someone to do it, or do something else (assemble IKEA furniture) !

In 58 years of buying cars, I have never bought anything sight-unseen !

Case in point…I liked Spyders…looked at a few (garbage) and had the good fortune of meeting Adriana Lima’s then husband at a car storage place. Both of us are Europeans so a level of sympatico was to be expected. He showed me the Spyder they owned and we stayed in touch…bad weather (a serious hurricane) came and went and we got together and a price was reached.

A bonus…they did not need the money and he was a good wrench, so he took care of the car, even though it had less than 1000 km on the clock!

Additional bonus after driving the car for almost 10 years and 13,000 miles, I made 3x my investment !

Do not expect someone else to do the work for you…(don't be lazy)

ReV

@Jim Gilbert - Madison, Mississippi posted:

Stan, An honest contractor has nothing to fear other than his estimate. Finish the job on time and get paid. Often with a bonus. Nothing that is built is done any different unless it's cost plus. Now that requires honesty on all sides! It's pretty simple. For the most part I have enjoyed working with honest people. If you want to finance someone's business, please go right ahead.

Remember the Golden Rule. It applies to absolutely everything.

I don't know about "fearful", but an honest contractor always needs to be careful about dishonest clients. A contractor cannot be scared of firing a customer. Not every job is worth the fight, and not everybody holding the checkbook is an honest dealer.

95% of what I do is what you call "cost plus", which is time and material. It's by far the fairest way to handle service. Projects are often (almost always, in my case) done T&M as well. I've not struck it rich doing it this way, but I've been fair with everybody I've ever done anything for.

We agree 100% regarding working with honest people. I've enjoyed serving the same clients for many years (some of them since I was an apprentice).

Every business is financing somebody else's business - either before or after the fact. Nobody is doing this to just cover costs, everybody is trying to make something along the way. I ALWAYS remember this when I hire subcontractors or employees. Fair is fair. There's enough for everybody at the table.

I've never forgotten the Golden Rule.

@Stan Galat posted:

I don't know about "fearful", but an honest contractor always needs to be careful about dishonest clients. A contractor cannot be scared of firing a customer. Not every job is worth the fight, and not everybody holding the checkbook is an honest dealer.

There's people like that in every business and every locale, Stan.  I've had a couple of clients I won't work for again over the years, one of them a guy managing apartments for the parent company (apparently they owned a "few" apartment blocks in the city).  Only after the work was completed, he thought my quote was too high, decided I should take what he thought was fair and he'd pass more work my way.  I sent him a copy of the original quote email (with him giving the go ahead) insisting on full payment and when he commented that I wouldn't get any more work from him I said that was quite ok.  There's been 2 others, 1 who should have been introduced to Louis- he was a first class con artist/bastard (S.L. and J.S. remind me of him!) who'd tell you ANYTHING to placate you for the moment, and surprisingly enough, a well respected elder in my brother's in-law's Christian Church.

You've been playing the game long enough; I'm sure you've heard it all...

Yep. Everybody has a story, Al.

For me - it's no restaurants. Never ever, no matter who you are*.

_{*I say that... but I do take care of the Chinese place up the street. It's nothing special and there's no money in it, but they started calling for service when they spoke zero English. For a while, we used their grade-school aged daughter as a translator. One time 20+ years ago, I was trying to explain a problem and give them options when the owner's wife patted me on the arm and said, "You fix. We trust". That's how we've done business since Day 1.}

_{I'll take care of them forever. Nobody else. Restaurants are terrible - demanding and cheap. They'll charge $250 for a meal for 2, but won't pay overtime for a call they put in at 4:29 PM.}