JPS Motorsports visit

Quite a few coupes in the mix.

It looks way better than I ever imagined. Especially compared to the old JPS in Hollywood Ca.   That place was a Dump !...............Bruce

very unusual that DR JEKYLL/MR HYDE allows himself to be photographed.....those photos of the gates of purgatory are just a painful memory for a few of us that "KNOW"....let the BUYER BEWARE....that guy is a real piece of work!...and i'll leave it at that for now

@Blasco   perhaps you can enlighten the group here about your overall experience with your JOHN BOY visit?.....he has , lets just say..."multiple personalities"   and that's being kind

Lots of cars in production for future re-sale. Nice

@aircooled   the JPS   "TAJ MAHAL" was bankrolled by the short partnership with PATRICK CRANE...until be got a belly full of DR JEKYLL.....not sure what kind of LARCANY keeps the lights on in that building....luckily, i no longer care

The facility does look impressive, perhaps his persona will change but in the interim should one conduct business,  a travel size tube of Prep H is recommended.

@Alan Merklin   sounds as if you have had the pleasure of his company....

@aircooled posted:

It looks way better than I ever imagined. Especially compared to the old JPS in Hollywood Ca.   That place was a Dump !...............Bruce

went down there LONG time ago..what a dump,,bunch of non mechanics working, alot of adjustable wrenches, visegrips on floor,,i went with Kirk instead..

@barncobob my car started life in the north hollywood "hood" and was one of the 1st completed cars to leave the san marcos "TAJ MAHAL"....to be fair, his move south complicated my build time ALOT...but the overall experience of the JPS saga left a very un-needed FOUL taste in my mouth...after some $$$ on MY DIME and  time sorting out....(of JPS shortcuts and cost cutting & non attention to obvious details)...not to mention a few cases of  verbal abuse & terrible business dealings....my car is a very nice example....but, nearly threw in the towel a few times......as many know, this man's REPUTATION presides him....just more WORDS to the WISE

All I have to do is take one look at the connectors and vinyl tape wrap used in that wiring-in-progress Suby build. It makes me want to throw up.

@DannyP posted:

All I have to do is take one look at the connectors and vinyl tape wrap used in that wiring-in-progress Suby build. It makes me want to throw up.

Here's the same engine in a Vintage Motorcars build.  I took this shot on a shop visit there in 2019.  Greg didn't spend much money on his office because he doesn't spend much time in it.  He's out on the floor.  The building is humble, but the builds are great.

Exactly, Michael. Being I have a Vintage Spyder, I'm partial to the fit/finish and materials they use.

Hey Blasco! thanks for the photos; it's always cool seeing ongoing projects happening at the various builders. Obviously there is a lot of interest in this hobby still, even as we all age. I wonder what the average age is of people ordering a speedster/spyder nowadays?

@Blasco posted:

There's the money-shot. 'Ol John-Boy always hired good upholstery.

Paint too.

_{See! I can be nice regarding JPS!}

@Stan Galat i agree....me too.....my paint and interior is stunning...here's another JPS "money- shot".... my car was one of the nicest recent cars (2 years old)....but putting up with a intermittently psychotic angry man.....(i never knew from visit to visit which person was living in his head DR JEKYLL or MR HYDE) that treats his customers with utter DISTAIN .....well, IMHO....he really should do something else for a living

Just curious......How is it that the intake is going forward on the Vintage and backward on the JPS ?   Different manifolds ?  They look to be both rear engine, not mid engine.

Bruce

Bruce,

The stock intake points toward the front of the car. Vintage puts a hole in the back engine compartment wall and that lets the intake hose attach directly to the throttle body.  It then runs through it in a gentle arc before re-entering the engine compartment through another hole.  

JPS uses a 180 degree fitting bolted onto the throttle body to point the inlet toward the rear of the car. The JPS solution is less efficient from an air-flow point of view (some of the 180* fitting available have sharp angles at the welds) and it looks a little cobbled up, but it cuts way down on assembly labor.

Michael

I find it interesting that as of recently the classic body JPS Speedsters are essentially the original Beck design, and I believe they are built at the old Chamonix facility in Brazil.  I guess the Brazilians had to find another US distribution arm when Beck broke off with them.  Beck moved production to Indiana to better control quality and have now completely changed the frame desig.  I would liken the current classic JPS cars to my older (2006) Beck.  I don't know how much of the finishing work (wiring/paint/upholstery) is now done in Brazil.

@Lane Anderson  It 's interesting what you say about the Chamonix facility in Brazil, and its relationship to Beck.

There was a post here recently about Bugeye Sprites, and the fact that the Bugeye Guy is now selling Speedsters.  I checked it out, and he has a  silver 2009 Beck speedster for sale that he says is registered as a 1957 Charmonix (his spelling).

https://www.bugeyeguy.com/2020...-speedster-for-sale/

I was confused how that could be, but  your post help clarify it a little.

I visited JPS and toured their facility in San Marcos (I'm 30 minutes away by Mountain Bike) when I was in the market for a Speedster a few years ago. I met both Patrick and John. Patrick was pleasant. Bob was nice and engaging. When I left JPS, Bob made a comment how the car ('69 912) I was driving did not have the correct factory OEM wheels. I told him that I had the original dealer sticker and Kardex that documented the option and build including the cost for the 6x15 Deep Six Fuch alloy wheels - but that wasn't enough to change John's mind and he didn't want to listen any further. I didn't buy anything from JPS. I will say that all the cars in the shop had great paint and interior however.

@ZFNHSN   JOHN -BOY is ultimate KNOW-IT-ALL....another character flaw ...you CAN'T tell him anything and he'll never admit to being wrong...a wise man once said..."never try to ARGUE with a PIG....it will just FRUSTRATE you & PISS OFF the PIG"

@JMM (Michael) posted:

Bruce,

The stock intake points toward the front of the car. Vintage puts a hole in the back engine compartment wall and that lets the intake hose attach directly to the throttle body.  It then runs through it in a gentle arc before re-entering the engine compartment through another hole.  

JPS uses a 180 degree fitting bolted onto the throttle body to point the inlet toward the rear of the car. The JPS solution is less efficient from an air-flow point of view (some of the 180* fitting available have sharp angles at the welds) and it looks a little cobbled up, but it cuts way down on assembly labor.

Michael

It is my observation that one can simply turn the intake manifold 180 degrees (clockwise or counter, doesn't matter!) and it will bolt right up pointing the throttle body in the opposite direction of stock. The fuel lines are then wrong then but no biggie. The real trouble is you now have to figure out where else to mount the alternator. Also not too big a deal though, particularly if the AC isn't going to be used.

They also sell a wedge-shaped spacer to allow clearance to the alternator in its stock location.

@edsnova posted:

It is my observation that one can simply turn the intake manifold 180 degrees (clockwise or counter, doesn't matter!) and it will bolt right up pointing the throttle body in the opposite direction of stock. The fuel lines are then wrong then but no biggie. The real trouble is you now have to figure out where else to mount the alternator. Also not too big a deal though, particularly if the AC isn't going to be used.

I think the rationalization runs like this:

A) Slap on a $10 elbow (works OK, kinda cobby looking, can't see it most of the time)

or

B) Rotate intake 180 degrees, fabricate throttle hook up, remount alternator, and re-plumb fuel lines (works great, looks great, can't see it most of the time)

If you only want to milk the cow once choose A.   You, Sir Edward of Metal-Work, Pounder-of-Thumbs, Coverer-of-Speedster-Cockpits, care about things.  You would choose B every time.  That's why there's a long list people that would like to share a beer with you.   Bookmaker's odds say John's list is really short.

Michael: totally agree. I cringe EVERY time I see the ECU in the engine bay of a JPS. It ain't designed to work in that environment, John-boy. Don't get me started.

So I wasn't imagining things. The manifold can be switched 180 degrees !  Very clever and thoughtful engineering. I also see that there are several alternator and A/C compressor brackets. I guess that's why.  I keep forgetting that this style of engine has been around for a lot of years. New to me though. I never was interested to look at one up close until now. Truly amazing !...........Bruce

Bruce, none of this matters for you, but you can also swap the water manifold around that's under the intake for Speedsters. This way the upper water neck points forward. Though there's nothing you can do about the lower hose position(which is perfect for Spyders).

Thanks Danny. I noticed that when I was studying my engine at home. I have some questions about where to install “tees” for a hot water heater core now.

Make sure you put the heater core plumbing where Subaru did. You could have overheating or underheating troubles if you tap it in somewhere else.

Dittos. Sube used the heater core plumbing as a bypass to get quickly-warmed water from the heads to the thermostat. The loop has to be there and must be unrestricted whether there is an actual heater core in there or not. Without that hot water, there's nothing to tell the thermostat when to open and let coolant into the engine.

Thanks Ed, I knew there was something in the back of my memory but I couldn't remember the exact reason.

Thanks so much for posting the pictures.  It’s nice to see how professional the JPS location  is compared with others I’ve seen.  I’m well into a JPS coupe build.  So far so good.

@tank the word "professional" & JPS sure don't seem to go together IMHO....i guess it depends on the day if he's DR. JEKYLL or Mr. HYDE...you say "well into " & "so far ,so good"...it will be interesting to see if your opinion changes during the process...those of us that know have experience that you may not be used to...as of yet....feel free to update, but maybe better not to.... if you upset him...all bets are off potentially....and that's not an exaggeration

@tank posted:

Thanks so much for posting the pictures.  It’s nice to see how professional the JPS location  is compared with others I’ve seen.  I’m well into a JPS coupe build.  So far so good.

Just curious if you have actually visited JPS since you placed your order.  Also, how long has it been and how long were you told it would take? 

No I haven’t visited them yet.  I’ll probably go out there during the final assembly and for the test drive.  I’m expecting a 2 year build.  Its a little more than I was told, but I wanted to set my expectations.  Who knows?  I’m 6 months into the build.

I thought I would give an update.  7 months into the build and all is going well.  No issues and good support from the builder. Example, I was struggling with what color to paint the exterior and John graciously sent me spray outs of the colors in question.  Certainly made the decision easier.  

@tank

"sent me spray outs of the colors in question. " Graciously yet!  What a nice guy!