which one is the better value, they are close in price, JPS is a little pricier. interested in hearinf from buyers of each. need to heat plus and minus of each one. thanks in advance.
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which one is the better value, they are close in price, JPS is a little pricier. interested in hearinf from buyers of each. need to heat plus and minus of each one. thanks in advance.
bob you have been a member for 20 days now. Hang out a little while longer or utilize the search function on the forum. That is a loaded question.
This has been covered quite a bit.
They're basically the same car except JPS will "customize" the cars a bit more and put a superior paint job on the car.
Do yourself a favor and read some past posts in the Vendor section. Use the Search function as well.
Then pick a few names from the registry and email them. It might help to pick people close to you geographically. You'll get a more frank response from an email than someone posting here.
Thank God you didn't throw IM in the mix as well............;)
They're basically the same car except JPS will "customize" the cars a bit more and put a superior paint job on the car.
Do yourself a favor and read some past posts in the Vendor section. Use the Search function as well.
Then pick a few names from the registry and email them. It might help to pick people close to you geographically. You'll get a more frank response from an email than someone posting here.
Thank God you didn't throw IM in the mix as well............;)
.... well, it would be easier to answer if he did, Terry ;).
Welcome aboard Bob... Hope you enjoy this site as much as I did before I pulled the trigger (18 months) and bought my Speedie.. Just a tip here my new friend... all the stuff you read here is good, but you need to meet and greet the Men themselves and you should get a pretty good feeling on which way to lean... Both build a sweet ride, it's bascially a decision that YOU have to make... Like they have said before.. email some folks here and ask them their personal opinion.. Most will share candid thoughts with you...
Good Luck...
Speedster "D"
Good Luck...
Speedster "D"
Bob, save yourself a whole lot of time and do a site-search for "Butch."
Best car going for the money.
Best car going for the money.
Bob-I'm new to this sight as well although I've been reading quite a lot on the Vender specific as well as the Registry. I won't say anything to you other then notice which company(s) end up with the most 10's and then read some of the comments. You will probably notice a pattern.
Anyone who has been around here for awhile knows the rating system to be a complete joke. Jeeez, what crummy advice. It doesn't really tell you what may or may not be important to you. They all build a car with different price points and different emphasis and quality in different areas. One may be the best at mechanical, but not the best body, another may be the best body, but not the best mechanical, another may be neither. You get what you pay for, so look at the car's carefully and you will figure out where the money goes and where it doesn't.
THE RATING SYSTEM MEANS NOTHING
People buy a 10 year old car and rate it, is that really fair to the builder? Well maybe if your buying one that is 10 years old and just happened to be in the same exact condition....ummm...yea.
Other people, understandably, want to register when they have bought a car, but haven't actually received it yet. Well they don't want to screw up the vendor's rating so it's all 10's. Now how many people actually go back and edit their ratings as time goes on?? Maybe 10% at the most. And I'm guessing, but I think that is an overly generous number.
Back to your original question, JPS is better if the initial body and paint detail is important to you, but the reality is the body will shrink just like the vintage, so stay with a lighter, brighter color and hide it as much as possible. Don't want the body to have those problems, then step up to the plate and buy an IM.
Don't like the air-cooled VW drivetrain...step up to the plate and buy a SAS. But now you may have a very long wait.
It's all trade offs, figure out the trade offs and you will make the right decision.
THE RATING SYSTEM MEANS NOTHING
People buy a 10 year old car and rate it, is that really fair to the builder? Well maybe if your buying one that is 10 years old and just happened to be in the same exact condition....ummm...yea.
Other people, understandably, want to register when they have bought a car, but haven't actually received it yet. Well they don't want to screw up the vendor's rating so it's all 10's. Now how many people actually go back and edit their ratings as time goes on?? Maybe 10% at the most. And I'm guessing, but I think that is an overly generous number.
Back to your original question, JPS is better if the initial body and paint detail is important to you, but the reality is the body will shrink just like the vintage, so stay with a lighter, brighter color and hide it as much as possible. Don't want the body to have those problems, then step up to the plate and buy an IM.
Don't like the air-cooled VW drivetrain...step up to the plate and buy a SAS. But now you may have a very long wait.
It's all trade offs, figure out the trade offs and you will make the right decision.
To add to what Steven said - as well as to offer blatantly partial opinion: If you want the best customer support for an already excellent product, contact Special Edition and look at a Beck.
Or buy an original speedster for the same price as an IM.
Great advice. That's what I'd do!
Steve-Actually I knew my comments would generate a strong response.To me the registry rating system does seem flawed. It should be limited perhaps to new owners or the same owners of 5 yr old cars.A 15 yr old car that's been thrashed or left outside is never going to get a good rating if bought used. IM certainly gets a lot of 10s but those cars seem pretty expensive. I would guess decked out over 50 grand. To me that defeats the point of owning a replicar. I thought(please correct me if I'm wrong) that the whole point was to get into one at a reasonable price that you could enjoy with like styling and like or better performance. Also is it a normal thing to expect a turn key car to have a bunch of problems when delivered? I must admit I was a bit taken back when I read some comments on some recently delivered JPS cars. Perhaps though this is normal. I don't know. I thought if you paid your 25 to 35 grand you should expect to get a well built blemish free product.But then I'm not a mechanic. I don't get the enjoyment of constantly tinkering with cars. I must admit I'm a bit smitten with these 356 replicas.I think their styling is beautiful and the more period they look inside the more appealing they are to me.I own a Mini Cooper S now. I used to own a 20 yr old Alfa GTV6. I loved the car but I put a ton of money into it to keep it running.(it was my daily commuter).I'm surprised that none of the popular manufactorers do not make the roadster other than IM or SAS. Also its seems that waiting more then a yr to get one is to me too long.Can these cars be enjoyed by a non mechanic?
Paul, as a partial answer to your questions, these cars are custom built in small quantities and almost always have a few teething issues. The JPS cars you are alluding to do seem to be extreme cases, but you can almost always expect a couple of hickups in the beginning.
As for being enjoyed by a non-mechanic, I'm not sure that's wise unless the owner knows a good, trustworthy mechanic who's familiar with air-cooled VWs. Many of us enjoy the involvement that comes with the necessary tinkering. That said, with just a little bit of periodic attention these can be pretty darned reliable cars.
Often the best bet is to find a fairly new car that's been driven a bit, maintained well, and that has had the inevitable teething problems worked out. Be carefull of an extremely low mileage car as the owner may have bought it without knowing what he was getting into, and may never have dealt with the initial issues.
These are not at their best when viewed as a daily driver. They are toys and hobbies, and many of us prefer them to things like Miatas, nice as those cars may be, because they are rare and unusual, and they require a higher level of involvement.
As for being enjoyed by a non-mechanic, I'm not sure that's wise unless the owner knows a good, trustworthy mechanic who's familiar with air-cooled VWs. Many of us enjoy the involvement that comes with the necessary tinkering. That said, with just a little bit of periodic attention these can be pretty darned reliable cars.
Often the best bet is to find a fairly new car that's been driven a bit, maintained well, and that has had the inevitable teething problems worked out. Be carefull of an extremely low mileage car as the owner may have bought it without knowing what he was getting into, and may never have dealt with the initial issues.
These are not at their best when viewed as a daily driver. They are toys and hobbies, and many of us prefer them to things like Miatas, nice as those cars may be, because they are rare and unusual, and they require a higher level of involvement.
I would love to hear more about the shrinking bodies(JPS
Do all the cars have shrinking bodies, or just jps and vs cars?
Where can I read more about this problem? I don't like the sound of that!
Where can I read more about this problem? I don't like the sound of that!
Bob / Paul;
As you can see, your question (a FAQ) draws a lot of spirited response. And all responses are based on typically valid premises.
If you're looking to buy new, maybe another way to ask this question would be;
1. If I wanted to spend $40K> on a new fake Speedster, what are my choices?
2. If I wanted to spend $30-40K on a new fake Speedster, what are my choices?
3. If I had <$30K to spend on a new fake Speedster, what are my choices?
4. What are my choices in these price ranges if I wanted to own a new fake Speedster within a year's time?
...I'm just saying...
As you can see, your question (a FAQ) draws a lot of spirited response. And all responses are based on typically valid premises.
If you're looking to buy new, maybe another way to ask this question would be;
1. If I wanted to spend $40K> on a new fake Speedster, what are my choices?
2. If I wanted to spend $30-40K on a new fake Speedster, what are my choices?
3. If I had <$30K to spend on a new fake Speedster, what are my choices?
4. What are my choices in these price ranges if I wanted to own a new fake Speedster within a year's time?
...I'm just saying...
Lane-Thank you for your response. I have no issue about taking the car to a VW mechanic. There are plenty of them in Santa Fe where I live. I would have to do some research on who is a good one. Also I'm not afraid of doing a little work on my own. However i don't have major mechanical skills. As I said these cars are unique and very appealing.I a little bit of work on my Alfa but any transmission or clutch work or brake work I left to a mechanic. Also the after market parts stores in many cases had poor quality parts. Are there parts stores for these cars or do you go back to the original MF kike JPS or Beck. So how would you rate the ones out there?
Jim-thanks for your reply.I'm considering looking in to one.So I would assume with a higher price range for a turn key you would expect less problems or is that totally wrong.Or is it simply who the company is regardless of price. IM appears to be out of my price range and SAS delivery times seem to me to be a little too long to part with your money.So that leaves Vintage,Beck,Thunder Ranch and JPS. I must admit I really like the new JPS coupe. I'm surprised none of these guys does a roadster though.Is the workmanship issue a reason why some offer a warranty and some don't? Sorry to be asking all these questions. For me 25 grand is a lot of money to part with.
There are lots of online vendors of parts like Cip1, CB Performance, Mid-America Motorworks, many of whom advertise on The Samba (www.thesamba.com/vw). You can also contact you manufacturer for information on where to buy parts. They often buy them from the same vendors. As for the quality, that's due to the fact that many of them now are made in China or Brazil, with the latter providing somehwat better quality. Common wisdom is that the best parts come from Germany, followed by the US, Brazil, and China, in that order. It also depends on the parts. Some trim bits (particularly chrome) are almost exclusively made in China and are best considered disposable after a few years.
Everyone on this forum has their favorite Speedster manufacturer, engine builder, and parts source. While almost everyone will agree that IM makes the superior car, the price causes most of us to look elsewhere. I'm very pleased with my Beck, not the least due to the support from Carey Hines and family at Special Edition. I also really like my CB Performance engine. I've also enjoyed talking with John Steele at JPS and buying a few parts from him. I've done no business with Kirk at Vintage, but his customers speak highly of his support as well.
One thing you'll find is that most of the manufacturers, even those with a few issues, really love this hobby. We had a panel discussion with Carey Hines (Special Edition), John Steele (JPS), Henry Reisner (IM), and others in the kit car business at Carlisle this year, and it was very informative. I've also had informal conversations with those guys and they're genuine folks. That connection to the the people who built my car is important to me.
Feel free to PM me for other blatant opinions, as I have a million of 'em.
Everyone on this forum has their favorite Speedster manufacturer, engine builder, and parts source. While almost everyone will agree that IM makes the superior car, the price causes most of us to look elsewhere. I'm very pleased with my Beck, not the least due to the support from Carey Hines and family at Special Edition. I also really like my CB Performance engine. I've also enjoyed talking with John Steele at JPS and buying a few parts from him. I've done no business with Kirk at Vintage, but his customers speak highly of his support as well.
One thing you'll find is that most of the manufacturers, even those with a few issues, really love this hobby. We had a panel discussion with Carey Hines (Special Edition), John Steele (JPS), Henry Reisner (IM), and others in the kit car business at Carlisle this year, and it was very informative. I've also had informal conversations with those guys and they're genuine folks. That connection to the the people who built my car is important to me.
Feel free to PM me for other blatant opinions, as I have a million of 'em.
You might want to buy used to start. You can pick up a nice vintage for 12k or so. Nice way to start out & easily resellable without losing too much $$.
i would assume any fiber class will shrink over time. I saw a 60 vette recently and the sides were very wavey
The same could be true for fiberglass too.
Good one David
david
been a long day
fiberglass
been a long day
fiberglass
That's ok, Gerd. Have a beer and it'll be all better.
"Or buy an original speedster for the same price as an IM."
.... and now I can drop off to sleep, and dream sweet dreams. It's the original speedster for $40K story again! I LOVE that one!
Isn't that the one where any schmo from the midwest can go on ebay (traderonline, etc.) and find a complete, rust-free, sorted, restored, show winning A-bodied 356 speedster some farmer found under a tarp in his barn and steal it for $40K while nobody in America is paying attention? All that 50 y/o classic needs is a little TLC, and some elbow grease, and she's a show winner at Pebble Beach. Isn't it AMAZING how everybody seems to know about it, but nobody's ever actually SEEN it?
But then I wake up to find.... an original that can even begin to compare to a new Intermeccanica (by any objective standard) goes for $100K or more. Often WAY more. The Intermeccanicas that go for the big bucks are full-on custom vehicles with really wild 911 drive-trains and running gear, and every feature known to man. They represent what is possible, but certainly not what every buyer should expect to pay. A bit of judicious restraint in the option column results in a car that compares quite favorably (on price) with anybody else's.
In this day of $35K JPS cars with myriad problems.... I'm not sure why the myth of the overpriced IM persists. Yes Intemeccanicas are a bit more expensive at the base level, but EVERY car receives the same attention to detail that should be the expectation of all buyers-- whether they purchase a car like Rick Davis' dream machine, or my more plebeian coach.
As far as the original question (Vintage or JPS)-- consider this: they both use the same bodies, and similar "economical" engine packages. JPS starts out looking better, but will end up shrinking and waving just like a Vintage after a couple years (if you are lucky). A Vintage takes a month to build, a JPS about six. I wouldn't buy either new (again).
If you are on a strict budget, buy a used car-- you'll do WAY better for the dollar. If you have your heart set on a turn-key built to your specifications-- then be prepared to spend a little more, or join the ranks of buyers who "absolutely must sell the joy of my life, the car I can't live without (but have only put 300 miles on in two years)" in a couple years.
.... and now I can drop off to sleep, and dream sweet dreams. It's the original speedster for $40K story again! I LOVE that one!
Isn't that the one where any schmo from the midwest can go on ebay (traderonline, etc.) and find a complete, rust-free, sorted, restored, show winning A-bodied 356 speedster some farmer found under a tarp in his barn and steal it for $40K while nobody in America is paying attention? All that 50 y/o classic needs is a little TLC, and some elbow grease, and she's a show winner at Pebble Beach. Isn't it AMAZING how everybody seems to know about it, but nobody's ever actually SEEN it?
But then I wake up to find.... an original that can even begin to compare to a new Intermeccanica (by any objective standard) goes for $100K or more. Often WAY more. The Intermeccanicas that go for the big bucks are full-on custom vehicles with really wild 911 drive-trains and running gear, and every feature known to man. They represent what is possible, but certainly not what every buyer should expect to pay. A bit of judicious restraint in the option column results in a car that compares quite favorably (on price) with anybody else's.
In this day of $35K JPS cars with myriad problems.... I'm not sure why the myth of the overpriced IM persists. Yes Intemeccanicas are a bit more expensive at the base level, but EVERY car receives the same attention to detail that should be the expectation of all buyers-- whether they purchase a car like Rick Davis' dream machine, or my more plebeian coach.
As far as the original question (Vintage or JPS)-- consider this: they both use the same bodies, and similar "economical" engine packages. JPS starts out looking better, but will end up shrinking and waving just like a Vintage after a couple years (if you are lucky). A Vintage takes a month to build, a JPS about six. I wouldn't buy either new (again).
If you are on a strict budget, buy a used car-- you'll do WAY better for the dollar. If you have your heart set on a turn-key built to your specifications-- then be prepared to spend a little more, or join the ranks of buyers who "absolutely must sell the joy of my life, the car I can't live without (but have only put 300 miles on in two years)" in a couple years.
OK, so you can't buy an original for the price of a new IM, fact is you can't buy an original for the price of 2 IM's, but your breaking my heart with this sob story about an IM myth....
Fact is IM gets more respect than any of the other makers, and rightfully so, based on the extra quality these cars receive in the build. BUT you DO pay dearly for this and not everyone feels the need to have a perfect body or the best paint, I'm willing to bet you take that IM to a show like the one in Orange County on Saturday mornings and you'll see a dozen cars with a better body or paint.
All it takes is dollars and some of us would rather spend half the price of an IM, because we certinally are not getting half the car...
give me a frigging break.
I am so tired of you IM owners and all your Bullshit.....
Is this some sort of Penis envy thing..."mine is bigger"
Fine, yours is bigger....I bet mine gets used a lot more....
Fact is IM gets more respect than any of the other makers, and rightfully so, based on the extra quality these cars receive in the build. BUT you DO pay dearly for this and not everyone feels the need to have a perfect body or the best paint, I'm willing to bet you take that IM to a show like the one in Orange County on Saturday mornings and you'll see a dozen cars with a better body or paint.
All it takes is dollars and some of us would rather spend half the price of an IM, because we certinally are not getting half the car...
give me a frigging break.
I am so tired of you IM owners and all your Bullshit.....
Is this some sort of Penis envy thing..."mine is bigger"
Fine, yours is bigger....I bet mine gets used a lot more....
Vince, you're the greatest. Always good for a laugh!
Bob, maybe thinking of it in terms of GM or Ford would be better. Every marquee they offer comes in 'good,' 'better' and 'best.' If you like GM or Ford, that is. If you want the A car, you can look at three examples within the Ford lineup. If you like B cars, there's a handfull from GM based on the same general layout.
I'll use the Crown Brick as an example. Let's say you're in the market for a tuna boat, and you want it to handle in such a way (borrowing from TC here) as to not knock the ash off your cigarette while it's sitting in the ashtray, you're going to look at the Lincoln Pimpcar. If you don't care about the cigarette, but you don't want to spill your open coffee, you'll go for the Mercury Grand Markup. If you're a cop, and you could care less whether you go sliding across the vinyl bench seat while your doughnut winds up in your lap, you'll opt for the Crown Brick. You'd never catch the bad guy in that Pimpcar, because all the fancy doodads rob the age-old 302 of its power.
It's a matter of degree. If you want a Speedster with features X, Y and Z, talk to the owners here who've bought new or used IMs or who've had similar upgrades made to non-pan-based cars. If you couldn't care less about the underpinnings and you're in love with the shape, go CMC or Street Beasts. It could well be that your car saves you so much money at the outset that you'll be able to afford maintenance AND three kids in college.
My take on things is pretty simple: I got what I paid for, and I had to become a mechanic. Then I had to become a fabricator. Then I had to become an electrician. Then I had to learn how to drive a monster -- and I'm okay with all that. Thank Vishnu the guy doing the grunt work was patient and didn't mind teaching me while we were at it.
I am drawing the line at becoming a body man. Not only has the body of my car shrunk since it was first cobbled together in 1984, but I've now beaten the s*** out of it and need a professional's help.
Size up your needs, wants and desires, make a checklist and post it for an owner poll. See what people REALLY have to say about what you're trying to aim for, and that may help you decide what to buy.
Don't jump in without a whole bunch of test-drives, either.
Bob, maybe thinking of it in terms of GM or Ford would be better. Every marquee they offer comes in 'good,' 'better' and 'best.' If you like GM or Ford, that is. If you want the A car, you can look at three examples within the Ford lineup. If you like B cars, there's a handfull from GM based on the same general layout.
I'll use the Crown Brick as an example. Let's say you're in the market for a tuna boat, and you want it to handle in such a way (borrowing from TC here) as to not knock the ash off your cigarette while it's sitting in the ashtray, you're going to look at the Lincoln Pimpcar. If you don't care about the cigarette, but you don't want to spill your open coffee, you'll go for the Mercury Grand Markup. If you're a cop, and you could care less whether you go sliding across the vinyl bench seat while your doughnut winds up in your lap, you'll opt for the Crown Brick. You'd never catch the bad guy in that Pimpcar, because all the fancy doodads rob the age-old 302 of its power.
It's a matter of degree. If you want a Speedster with features X, Y and Z, talk to the owners here who've bought new or used IMs or who've had similar upgrades made to non-pan-based cars. If you couldn't care less about the underpinnings and you're in love with the shape, go CMC or Street Beasts. It could well be that your car saves you so much money at the outset that you'll be able to afford maintenance AND three kids in college.
My take on things is pretty simple: I got what I paid for, and I had to become a mechanic. Then I had to become a fabricator. Then I had to become an electrician. Then I had to learn how to drive a monster -- and I'm okay with all that. Thank Vishnu the guy doing the grunt work was patient and didn't mind teaching me while we were at it.
I am drawing the line at becoming a body man. Not only has the body of my car shrunk since it was first cobbled together in 1984, but I've now beaten the s*** out of it and need a professional's help.
Size up your needs, wants and desires, make a checklist and post it for an owner poll. See what people REALLY have to say about what you're trying to aim for, and that may help you decide what to buy.
Don't jump in without a whole bunch of test-drives, either.
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Bob / Paul;
Just as matter of visual reference for an older VS, consider reviewing my photo file of my 12 year old VS (1995) daily driver with 90K kilometers on the odometer.
The car looks as nice today as it looked when it caught my eye 12 years ago. Still runs like a top (1835/dual Kadrons/3:88), although not really waterproof (or even bee-proof, per Vince) I think I could probably sell it today for what I paid for it.
I will say this, if I had enough disposable cash to afford a spec'd IM as well as maintain my other hobbies & toys, I'd LOVE to have one (like Jim Ward's or Dale Bates').
...I'm just saying...
Just as matter of visual reference for an older VS, consider reviewing my photo file of my 12 year old VS (1995) daily driver with 90K kilometers on the odometer.
The car looks as nice today as it looked when it caught my eye 12 years ago. Still runs like a top (1835/dual Kadrons/3:88), although not really waterproof (or even bee-proof, per Vince) I think I could probably sell it today for what I paid for it.
I will say this, if I had enough disposable cash to afford a spec'd IM as well as maintain my other hobbies & toys, I'd LOVE to have one (like Jim Ward's or Dale Bates').
...I'm just saying...
Bob,
Don't let isolated horror stories sway your decision making. Stan obviously has some issues with JPS from several years ago that, from what I gather, stemmed from his need for a Fiberfab hardtop on his car. This was a very specialized request and I don't know that it is fair to have John hold the blame bag for some of Fiberfabs errors. Also the recent problems with the Dewalt and Frazer cars may have more to do with JPS's engine builder and the fact that Tom and Kelly were really pushing him those last few weeks which may have led to some things being overlooked that normally would be rechecked prior to shipping. I am not trying to make excuses for JPS but if you take the time to peruse the registry and read the comments of JPS owners, you will find them overwhelmingly favorable. This is also true for the other makers as well. You must remember that building one of these is not an exact science. We demand that the builders make it specifically for us and to our specific orders. They are not going to be infallable and occasionally errors are made. Fortunately, from what I have read here, they don't screw up very often but when they do all of them will step up to make things right. I applaud these guys for having the balls in the first place to make their living doing something that essentially places their heads on the chopping block every time they get an order. The angry few that years later continue to try to turn people off of certain builders that they didn't have a great experience with only serve to discourage these men from continuing to practice their craft. How happy will we be if Kirk and JPS shut down because they have had enough of our crap? As I said, it is not an exact science. Lay down your money and take your chances. I would say the odds are pretty good that you will be glad you did. I have a year old Vintage that looks and runs as good as the day I bought it and there are others here with 12 year old Vintages that show no sign of "shrinkage". Step over the "doomsdayers" and go have some fun.
Don't let isolated horror stories sway your decision making. Stan obviously has some issues with JPS from several years ago that, from what I gather, stemmed from his need for a Fiberfab hardtop on his car. This was a very specialized request and I don't know that it is fair to have John hold the blame bag for some of Fiberfabs errors. Also the recent problems with the Dewalt and Frazer cars may have more to do with JPS's engine builder and the fact that Tom and Kelly were really pushing him those last few weeks which may have led to some things being overlooked that normally would be rechecked prior to shipping. I am not trying to make excuses for JPS but if you take the time to peruse the registry and read the comments of JPS owners, you will find them overwhelmingly favorable. This is also true for the other makers as well. You must remember that building one of these is not an exact science. We demand that the builders make it specifically for us and to our specific orders. They are not going to be infallable and occasionally errors are made. Fortunately, from what I have read here, they don't screw up very often but when they do all of them will step up to make things right. I applaud these guys for having the balls in the first place to make their living doing something that essentially places their heads on the chopping block every time they get an order. The angry few that years later continue to try to turn people off of certain builders that they didn't have a great experience with only serve to discourage these men from continuing to practice their craft. How happy will we be if Kirk and JPS shut down because they have had enough of our crap? As I said, it is not an exact science. Lay down your money and take your chances. I would say the odds are pretty good that you will be glad you did. I have a year old Vintage that looks and runs as good as the day I bought it and there are others here with 12 year old Vintages that show no sign of "shrinkage". Step over the "doomsdayers" and go have some fun.
tom/jim/vincent
great posts
1st I have seen Jims car several times and I still cannot believe it is 12 years old. Blows away the argument about fiberglass.
2nd I have said this in previous posts and I stand by it, John Steele
is a great guy. You cannot rush your work. Look at the saw vehicles and their time frames. I let John build my car and he actually asked me to step away a few times but I never rushed the build. Other than a mild oil leak which was repaired I have had no problems and I have 4675 miles on my car. Am I close to JPS, yes 15 miles. I see John and his cars and the only two major complaints unfortunately are from Kelly and Tom other than Stan that would like to stick an ice pick in Johns ear. I do not doubt their problems but for all the vehicles I see John make and the owners there every weekend they must be abberations.
3rd Vince this is to make make Minnies Husband happy f off
great posts
1st I have seen Jims car several times and I still cannot believe it is 12 years old. Blows away the argument about fiberglass.
2nd I have said this in previous posts and I stand by it, John Steele
is a great guy. You cannot rush your work. Look at the saw vehicles and their time frames. I let John build my car and he actually asked me to step away a few times but I never rushed the build. Other than a mild oil leak which was repaired I have had no problems and I have 4675 miles on my car. Am I close to JPS, yes 15 miles. I see John and his cars and the only two major complaints unfortunately are from Kelly and Tom other than Stan that would like to stick an ice pick in Johns ear. I do not doubt their problems but for all the vehicles I see John make and the owners there every weekend they must be abberations.
3rd Vince this is to make make Minnies Husband happy f off
Are you better off with these companies not going for a high end motor and just ordering the standard items or will it not make any difference. I mean if you specify a 1776 CC motor and vinal in the seats and trim does that make it easier for these guys to produce a better car then asking for custom options. Are there things one needs to know about the strength and weakneeses of each company? My concern is more about mechanical reliability then anything else.
Paul I have a 2332
had a problem with what I believe was the distributor (oil Leak)
Im an old dumb CPA so not sure but John replaced it and no more problems
As far as options, I cannot believe by being there that leather seats, trim, change the color of the interior of the car as I did to John would create mechanical problems
had a problem with what I believe was the distributor (oil Leak)
Im an old dumb CPA so not sure but John replaced it and no more problems
As far as options, I cannot believe by being there that leather seats, trim, change the color of the interior of the car as I did to John would create mechanical problems
good post cory
The primary engines in the replica VW world, and with most of the mainstays produced long enough ago to be affordable to the entry-level buyer, seem to be the venerable Volkswagen 1641cc flat-four workhorse.
The 1641 has a number of things going for it; one, it's a proven engine that will go 250,000 miles with proper service, regular maintenance and a careful driver. They weren't built for high performance, but they can seem downright peppy in a fiberglass car which puts a few short inches between you and the pavement.
Nowadays, there are a lot more options. You'll see numbers on this site (or any air-cooled website) like 1700, 1915, 2110 and 2366. You'll see terms like Type I and Type IV, and occasionally Type II and Type III also, but with less frequency. (If you see something with a 1300cc engine as the powerplant, stand well clear. They aren't all that reliable.)
What happens, in my opinion, is those Beetle and VW Bus engines are sourced from cars which aren't mechanically sound, from Mexico, from specialty rebuild shops or from new parts which closely resemble but vastly out-perform their German-built forebears.
Some people put engines into these little guys which are suited to their needs as drivers -- or maybe what they think they might like to use fully once in a while. You'll also see (and I understand they have great success with) Subaru engines with the same Boxer setup but which use water for cooling, you'll see turbo setups and carb variations on the VW mills and you'll occasionally see BMW MINI engines in some of the very latest model cars, too.
On a very rare and celebrated occasion, you'll see someone transplant a 911 engine into one of these things.
All of those engines are good for the hobby. There are manuals on how to maintain them, charts on the horsepower generated by each and people in pretty well every moderate-sized town in America who can crack a can of something and offer help and advice.
Whatever you decide on, there's bound to be someone on this site who has one. They will also be very likely to share whatever information they have with you for the asking. One of the best things about this crowd is their ability to help each other out when something unexpected pops up, from registration to logistical support.
Regarding the interior and trim choices, man, that's personal stuff. The craftier people here who weren't particular (or didn't see trim money as cash well-spent) have made some AMAZING modifications to the way their cars look, for not a lot of money. Most of the cars I've seen here on the East Coast have looked pretty similar from a few yards away, but by the time you're right up on them, everybody's car has a little something different going on inside. That's pretty neat, too -- and those who've made changes themselves will almost always want to show it off or tell you how they did it. Usually, all you have to do to tap into that knowledge is ask a question of someone.
The 1641 has a number of things going for it; one, it's a proven engine that will go 250,000 miles with proper service, regular maintenance and a careful driver. They weren't built for high performance, but they can seem downright peppy in a fiberglass car which puts a few short inches between you and the pavement.
Nowadays, there are a lot more options. You'll see numbers on this site (or any air-cooled website) like 1700, 1915, 2110 and 2366. You'll see terms like Type I and Type IV, and occasionally Type II and Type III also, but with less frequency. (If you see something with a 1300cc engine as the powerplant, stand well clear. They aren't all that reliable.)
What happens, in my opinion, is those Beetle and VW Bus engines are sourced from cars which aren't mechanically sound, from Mexico, from specialty rebuild shops or from new parts which closely resemble but vastly out-perform their German-built forebears.
Some people put engines into these little guys which are suited to their needs as drivers -- or maybe what they think they might like to use fully once in a while. You'll also see (and I understand they have great success with) Subaru engines with the same Boxer setup but which use water for cooling, you'll see turbo setups and carb variations on the VW mills and you'll occasionally see BMW MINI engines in some of the very latest model cars, too.
On a very rare and celebrated occasion, you'll see someone transplant a 911 engine into one of these things.
All of those engines are good for the hobby. There are manuals on how to maintain them, charts on the horsepower generated by each and people in pretty well every moderate-sized town in America who can crack a can of something and offer help and advice.
Whatever you decide on, there's bound to be someone on this site who has one. They will also be very likely to share whatever information they have with you for the asking. One of the best things about this crowd is their ability to help each other out when something unexpected pops up, from registration to logistical support.
Regarding the interior and trim choices, man, that's personal stuff. The craftier people here who weren't particular (or didn't see trim money as cash well-spent) have made some AMAZING modifications to the way their cars look, for not a lot of money. Most of the cars I've seen here on the East Coast have looked pretty similar from a few yards away, but by the time you're right up on them, everybody's car has a little something different going on inside. That's pretty neat, too -- and those who've made changes themselves will almost always want to show it off or tell you how they did it. Usually, all you have to do to tap into that knowledge is ask a question of someone.
dude u r up late
Thanks, Gerd. Insomnia is a wonderful thing.
Paul, since I'm on a roll here, keep another few things in mind. The bigger the numbers get for the engine, the more the rest of the car has to work to provide life-support to it. A larger engine will require more monitoring, a careful maintenance program and a decent annual budget for the rest of the car.
A car which started life as a Bug and was saved from salvage by becoming a kit car has all of the Bug's inherent weaknesses in it -- and the Bug was sawed in half to make the conversion work. These little guys potentially have a number of old VW parts in them, even if the car is described as being 100 percent new.
Not all of these critters are VW-based. Manufacturers nowadays use a variety of techniques, many of them using proprietary chassis designs. Some of them use very few original VW parts. It's important to know what you're getting, so I'd have a good read through the Makers tab (top row, fourth from left, above).
I don't know when the last VW shift coupler was made, for example. I know you can't order one from a Volkswagen dealer anymore, and there are a number of optional aftermarket ones available. The originals seem to last longer, and I personally would source one from a junkyard and clean it up rather than order a Chinese part of questionable lineage. Every car based on VeeDub pieces would be in need of the bushings that go into that coupler, too.
My point is, there are so many little subsets involved with making a car, or re-making a car, that your questions might want to address the little things as well as the big ones.
Did you know that it's possible to find a VW transaxle with something called an Automatic Stick? That thing doesn't fit into a stock Speedster without modifications, but I'll bet someone's tried it. There are a hundred different combinations of transaxles, spacers, axle tubes, axles, brakes and wheels, too. Most of the unaltered cars used to be produced with VW-standard, very narrow tires and stock Beetle wheels. Some people have really neat ideas on how to modify their cars to accomodate bigger wheels or meatier tires, too.
It's all good stuff and may require a little searching, but if you read enough and look at enough photos in the Photos section (above, middle tab), you'll be able to begin spotting the differences easily enough.
I wouldn't intend this for use as a guide, by any means, but I have several favorites here. Here are a couple I look at for inspiration:
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=dubudee&f=topdwnnotonneautag3%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=lvillene&f=hardtop11%2EJPG
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=drdemanto&f=hermosa05%2EJPG
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=Johnny2bolts&f=Cabrio+Interior%5FJ%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=alanmerklin&f=1100%5F4964%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=landerso&f=DSC%5F0109%2EJPG
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=Kawika55&f=DSCN2310%2EJPG
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=MUSBJIM&f=OLDMAN%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=MUSBJIM&f=IMG%5F2748%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=MUSBJIM&f=Angela+Spyder%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=nichols1&f=Dash+View%2EJPG
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=chines1&f=MVC%2D012S%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=mickey356&f=DSC%5F1554%2EJPG
and
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=Jogyver&f=DSC05851%2EJPG
-- but I need to say that this isn't an all-inclusive list by any means. They're all different in one way or another. Some are different in a huge number of ways; every one of them has a story.
Good luck with your choices, but make them what you want, not just what someone tells you you need. :)
Paul, since I'm on a roll here, keep another few things in mind. The bigger the numbers get for the engine, the more the rest of the car has to work to provide life-support to it. A larger engine will require more monitoring, a careful maintenance program and a decent annual budget for the rest of the car.
A car which started life as a Bug and was saved from salvage by becoming a kit car has all of the Bug's inherent weaknesses in it -- and the Bug was sawed in half to make the conversion work. These little guys potentially have a number of old VW parts in them, even if the car is described as being 100 percent new.
Not all of these critters are VW-based. Manufacturers nowadays use a variety of techniques, many of them using proprietary chassis designs. Some of them use very few original VW parts. It's important to know what you're getting, so I'd have a good read through the Makers tab (top row, fourth from left, above).
I don't know when the last VW shift coupler was made, for example. I know you can't order one from a Volkswagen dealer anymore, and there are a number of optional aftermarket ones available. The originals seem to last longer, and I personally would source one from a junkyard and clean it up rather than order a Chinese part of questionable lineage. Every car based on VeeDub pieces would be in need of the bushings that go into that coupler, too.
My point is, there are so many little subsets involved with making a car, or re-making a car, that your questions might want to address the little things as well as the big ones.
Did you know that it's possible to find a VW transaxle with something called an Automatic Stick? That thing doesn't fit into a stock Speedster without modifications, but I'll bet someone's tried it. There are a hundred different combinations of transaxles, spacers, axle tubes, axles, brakes and wheels, too. Most of the unaltered cars used to be produced with VW-standard, very narrow tires and stock Beetle wheels. Some people have really neat ideas on how to modify their cars to accomodate bigger wheels or meatier tires, too.
It's all good stuff and may require a little searching, but if you read enough and look at enough photos in the Photos section (above, middle tab), you'll be able to begin spotting the differences easily enough.
I wouldn't intend this for use as a guide, by any means, but I have several favorites here. Here are a couple I look at for inspiration:
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=dubudee&f=topdwnnotonneautag3%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=lvillene&f=hardtop11%2EJPG
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=drdemanto&f=hermosa05%2EJPG
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=Johnny2bolts&f=Cabrio+Interior%5FJ%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=alanmerklin&f=1100%5F4964%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=landerso&f=DSC%5F0109%2EJPG
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=Kawika55&f=DSCN2310%2EJPG
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=MUSBJIM&f=OLDMAN%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=MUSBJIM&f=IMG%5F2748%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=MUSBJIM&f=Angela+Spyder%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=nichols1&f=Dash+View%2EJPG
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=chines1&f=MVC%2D012S%2Ejpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=mickey356&f=DSC%5F1554%2EJPG
and
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=Jogyver&f=DSC05851%2EJPG
-- but I need to say that this isn't an all-inclusive list by any means. They're all different in one way or another. Some are different in a huge number of ways; every one of them has a story.
Good luck with your choices, but make them what you want, not just what someone tells you you need. :)
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Cory - dude, you spend more time at work on the SOC website than I do (but not as much as Vince!). Don't you have any kitchen fires to put out, or CPR to administer or AED batteries to charge?
Oh come on Jim's car is "metallic silver"......that only proves the point I was making.
Stay with a brite color and no one will know it is wavy, and now you have your proof!!!! Let me splash some black on that baby and you will change your mind real quick, but more importantly, know the limitations of each builder and stay within those and plan accordingly with your expectations.
If I was going to have a Black car, my preference would be an IM. But my preference is also not to have air-cooled. Now IM has a watercooled car, but I will offer no opinion because I haven't ever seen it or drove it, less owned one.
You guys do people a great diservice when you try to make someone like Stan's comments out to be a personal attack when in reality it is just the simple truth.
And Vince really hits the mark, for some people the extra money is worth the extras for others it isn't. That is their personal choice, but don't skew the reality or mislead people about the differences, because they are real and most of us know it.
Just like, I wouldn't argue against a year being a long time to wait for a car....most people don't really want to wait more then 6-8 months. That's just the way it is......
Stay with a brite color and no one will know it is wavy, and now you have your proof!!!! Let me splash some black on that baby and you will change your mind real quick, but more importantly, know the limitations of each builder and stay within those and plan accordingly with your expectations.
If I was going to have a Black car, my preference would be an IM. But my preference is also not to have air-cooled. Now IM has a watercooled car, but I will offer no opinion because I haven't ever seen it or drove it, less owned one.
You guys do people a great diservice when you try to make someone like Stan's comments out to be a personal attack when in reality it is just the simple truth.
And Vince really hits the mark, for some people the extra money is worth the extras for others it isn't. That is their personal choice, but don't skew the reality or mislead people about the differences, because they are real and most of us know it.
Just like, I wouldn't argue against a year being a long time to wait for a car....most people don't really want to wait more then 6-8 months. That's just the way it is......