JPS OUTLAW COUPE: EBAY

thanks for posting it ... it has good picts on how to do a conversion on a pan

@MotoCarlo  hey this might be something for you

I drove down and had a look at what he had a few weeks ago. Super nice guy. But honestly those cars did not speak to me.

The construction is very different compared to your IM I would think.  

I personally do not like the AC unit nor the switches for the windows.

It just seems that some finishing touches are missing in the coupe builds that I have seen.  

Maybe I am a bit more fastidious  but I am a detail guy

IaM-Ray posted:

The construction is very different compared to your IM I would think.  

I personally do not like the AC unit nor the switches for the windows.

It just seems that some finishing touches are missing in the coupe builds that I have seen.  

Maybe I am a bit more fastidious  but I am a detail guy

And IM is very meticulous about details...I am spoiled also..I see your point

Well there are many different artists out there, and many different tastes ...  

I gotta tell ya, whatever A/C John uses in those coupes (I believe it is from Vintage Air) it REALLY puts out!  Tom Marantz has the JPS Suby/coupe that we were ripping around in at Carlisle 2017 in 90+ degree sweltering heat, and I couldn't wait to get back in the car and crank the A/C.  After just a few cooling minutes we were reaching for the control to turn the darn thing DOWN!

And as chilling as the A/C is, Tom tells me the heater is just as good!

It seems interesting, though, that John is about the only coupe maker out there, right now, and produces maybe 2 - 3 per year (I'm honestly guessing, here) and we see a used one pop up for sale, what?, every 6 months or so?  WTF?!?!?!?

Honestly, I love everything about that car except the stupid AC unit.  I think its interesting that the radiator is mounted horizontal.  I know that Henry at IM will not build a suby car without a front bumper since the front bumper hides a cutout in the front of the car feeding air to the radiator.  So will a horizontal radiator provide adequate cooling?  Obviously JPS thinks so.  The horizontal radiator seems mandatory in a watercooled outlaw.  

VINTAGE air makes a great unit...I'm not surprised that it works so well in the JPS coupe. Some folks would likely prefer it built into the dash rather than hanging down below......just a personal taste thing like anything else

It may work well but they need to hide it ...  it looks just very very aftermarket  ...

My vintage air works really nicely and I have the footwell also cooling or heating and it is nicely hidden   I go out at 90 degrees with the top up and I can cruise all day. Just saying. 

I think people like the idea of a coupe, but perhaps they find it’s like driving an old VW beetle - a little noisy, and none of the benefits of a Speedster.

Well, I like the looks but I am so glad IM was not building a coupe when I bought my first IM convertible D... roadster I would have never experienced top down driving ... love it.. as for a hardtop, where we live it goes from driveable to snow so quickly I would maybe use it for a month so I passed on the hardtop as it would sit in the garage and get lonely.

You might be able to convince IM to make it that way Spyderman

550 Phil posted:  I think its interesting that the radiator is mounted horizontal.    So will a horizontal radiator provide adequate cooling?    The horizontal radiator seems mandatory in a watercooled outlaw.  

 

Phil, I'm confused by your last sentence vs. the other two quoted above. Why do you say say ....mandatory in a watercooled outlaw ? 

I put a horizontal rad in my conversion. I'm far from an expert in this area but it works just fine. Rather than rip into my trunk and reduce the already small baggage space there, I found that a "near horizontal" rad could be slung quite easily under the bumper brackets in my older pan based IM. I used a Saab 9000 rad which is raised up in the front by about 3" and allowed space underneath for an intake scoop. The scoop still provides about 5" road clearance and it too is slightly raised up in front. I know that more than a few bits of road kill has been smoothed over with it. I've since reduced the intake area of the scoop to about 18 sq in. and it works well even in South Florida heat. The fan will come on in stop and go situations but I try hard to avoid that anyway. 

As an aside...the radiator is there to "radiate" heat and I'm thinking that a horizontal rad may be more efficient in radiating in a worst case scenario ( stuck in traffic ) because the whole area of it is well oriented to radiate freely ( hot air rises ) , while a vertical rad might have heat radiating into more heat on the way out and up when stuck in traffic for instance. I know this logic goes against most every auto manufacturer but they know a lot more than me and modern cars are more complex and the systems are more compact than I could ever make fit and run. 

Again, I'm sure not expert but I got the idea from some Formula One technical pics and looking for a simple way out, the horizontal method looked good to me and ....it works. 

David I think Phil was saying that because IM seems to only build them by putting a slot in the lower body area and covering it up with the bumper so it is unseen. 

Your set up works which is great,  if your temp goes up at idle if you have a temp gauge available you can always make sure you idle it at a faster rpm to keep it cool or put in an inline auxiliary pump like a lot of us have. 

Now that IM makes Car-Dashian models I would love to see their version of a coupe and it might be an option some day but I think IM is headed into the atmosphere with lighting powered cars.  

I hear a second speedster with lightning power I mean Lithium powered car with a new 180hp motor is in the works.  So for now IM is headed into the ether and I don't forsee a coupe in their near future.  

Any picture how the AC looks inside?

Beck

I begged Henry to build me a COUPE, even using a body from JPS or (?), and have it finished by him.......NOT A CHANCE....he is too busy with IM business and E power and I appreciate his fondness for pure IM.

Perhaps when CAREY and company are cranking coupes, folks will have additional options

IaM-Ray posted:

David I think Phil was saying that because IM seems to only build them by putting a slot in the lower body area and covering it up with the bumper so it is unseen. 

Your set up works which is great,  if your temp goes up at idle if you have a temp gauge available you can always make sure you idle it at a faster rpm to keep it cool or put in an inline auxiliary pump like a lot of us have. 

Sure my temp gauge goes up at idle in stop and go traffic but the fan takes good care of that. No need to idle it faster and no aux pump either. Proven in Miami traffic. 

IM and maybe others use heavy duty marine type composite flex hose to get coolant up to the rad and back and it works very well and also allows bending around things that are in the way. I used two lengths of 1 1/2" aluminum tubes from a donated hang glider frame. My tubes radiate heat too. 

I don't want to sound cheap about it, but you have to understand I really didn't have any experience in doing this conversion before. Everything was an experiment and I wasn't about to blow big bucks on trials. When something did work right I fell into the old adage of "if it works, leave it alone ".  My first two 2.2l engines were yanked at a local wreckers for $350. When I found that all was working well, I splurged on the Frankenmotor and the rebuilt / regeared tranny. 

Well, it sound to me that your step wise approach is working for you and in the end that is all that counts, really, and if it ever fails you can still get hang gliding frames somewhere for sure.  

David

What Ray said.  I talked to Henry about building a suby outlaw without bumpers 3-4 years ago.  He said he could not do it because he needed the cutout at the bottom of the car for air flow to the radiator.  And he needed the bumper to hide the cut out.  My IM had this cut out.  But it seems to me that JPS and other folks like you are horizontally mounting the radiator with good success.  Henry should give it a try so he can offer water cooled cars without bumpers aka outlaws.  Maybe he already has.  That was the point I was trying to make.

IaM-Ray posted:

Now that IM makes Car-Dashian models I would love to see their version of a coupe and it might be an option some day 

 

Ray.  Yes, an IM coupe with a flat six would be an interesting car.

The main problem with a coupe is the reverberation of all the transmission and engine noises we get with these cars.   It’s bad enough in a Speedster with the top up - a coupe would be that much worse.  

I much prefer my car with the top down.

Bob wind noise and age related hearing loss is great at masking vibration sound.

Having said that do you have a full sound deadening package in your car? 

Also the exhaust could be made quieter 

That would help ...   just saying

Ray:  I have sound deadening, and I love the exhaust. 

These cars are meant to be driven top down.  That's all.

I would agree that my IM with the hard top in place was pretty loud.  Never really minded the engine or exhaust sound.  But the whining of the tranny was a bit irritating.  But the worst was the constant sound of the fuel pump.  My new spyder is the second vintage spyder to have the fuel pump mounted inside the fuel tank.  Just from my few short drives in LA it is much quieter and supposedly much easier to work on.

Bob I agree that top down is where it is at.

I was only saying that if one would want a coupe you would have to go crazy trying to reduce noise all over.

Thanks Phil for reminding me that the drive train is 50 years old .  It was noisy back thrn and even the besf rebuilder can’t remove it all.

Just like some people don’t drive a speedster much maybe this is one time with a  coop one would understand why it would not get driven too much either

I guess ear plugs might work

Bob: IM S6 posted:

Ray:  I have sound deadening, and I love the exhaust. 

These cars are meant to be driven top down.  That's all.

550 Phil posted:

David

What Ray said.  I talked to Henry about building a suby outlaw without bumpers 3-4 years ago.  He said he could not do it because he needed the cutout at the bottom of the car for air flow to the radiator.  And he needed the bumper to hide the cut out.  My IM had this cut out.  But it seems to me that JPS and other folks like you are horizontally mounting the radiator with good success.  Henry should give it a try so he can offer water cooled cars without bumpers aka outlaws.  Maybe he already has.  That was the point I was trying to make.

Here's an older pic of my "two bay" scoop which is now reduced to a "one bay " scoop. Second & third pics..you can hardly see the scoop and third pic you can't see it at all  :-)  Gotta do something about the hood gaps though.

Dave the mad scientist.  Your car still looks great.

That oil pan scares me.

If the radiator could go behind a spyder type grill up front I think the bumper delete would work well in an "Outlaw" coupe.

Also, a coupe with a sunroof or sliding rag top (and added sound deadening material)would be the way to go.

David you could have kept that other scoop and devise a Davis air scoop to bring fresh air into the cabin for defrost and on those warm days... YOU can do this for sure.

BTW how do you like the 3:44 tranny ratios?

550 Phil posted:

Dave the mad scientist.  Your car still looks great.

Thanks, Phil. We holiday at least once a year in Wells, Maine. First three pics in York Beach and the last one in Biddeford. We get into Kennebunk too which is where Bush Sr. resides. 

BTW, I had a good buddy (RIP) near you in Suffolk, Va...Folis Jones (Folis Jones Racing) who raced in his later years in some type of Ford powered Lotus Super 7. A tough nut for sure and spent 20 yrs as a submariner. Crazier than a SHR too and you wouldn't want to scrap with him. He became the chief Psychologist at the VA state prison. Not many messed with him. He knew Paul Newman well too. 

IaM-Ray posted:

David you could have kept that other scoop and devise a Davis air scoop to bring fresh air into the cabin for defrost and on those warm days... YOU can do this for sure.

BTW how do you like the 3:44 tranny ratios?

The Davis idea wouldn't work from what I have. Mine was a three bay scoop reduced to two and these feed directly to the rad and cannot be diverted. For a Davis scoop, I'd duct from the horn grilles. 

The 3:44 ratios work very well for my kind of driving. 

I know that Davis really liked the air flow in the rain to keep the window clear and to keep the cabin cool.  I am thinking about it somewhat but with Vintage air it is less pressing.  Glad your enjoying the new setup. 

IaM-Ray posted:

I know that Davis really liked the air flow in the rain to keep the window clear and to keep the cabin cool.  I am thinking about it somewhat but with Vintage air it is less pressing.  Glad your enjoying the new setup. 

Ray.  If I were to do my car over again, that would be the first option I would add.  These cars need some fresh air intake for rainy days.

You can still do it but you would have to have your Porsche guy do the work ...  

Here is the info.. Reposted for you from the man himself Davis !