JPS Speedster - timing belt broken and other issues

I can't see how replacing the starter with a hi-torq one would impact the timing belt.  Timing belts can be inspected for wear.  They typically will last 100k miles before they get replaced along with tensioners and usually since you are right there - the water pump.  There is no adjustment of the timing belt or the tensions.  I guess if a water pump ceased it might chew cogs off the belt and cause it to break or jump time.  Looks like JPS Subaru warranty is 24/24 - so time-wise you are past the warranty.  JPS says new engine (per web site) - does that mean NEW, rebuilt, reconditioned, used low mile JDM?  probably looking at the engine number will give you the year it was built and the type car it came from (US or JDM).

Bummer for sure.

Unfortunately, an EJ Subaru is an "interference" engine -- when the timing belt breaks, things bounce off each other.

The car only has 1500 mi., but what was the donor engine from? An EJ25 is a 1990s Subaru. If the engine wasn't rebuilt (with receipts to prove it), there's no telling what's in it. A broken timing belt sound very much like an engine with a lot of miles.

Regardless, you're going to be able to tell if it was rebuilt when you open it up, and unless you sell the car with a bad engine (I surely wouldn't), you are going to open it up. You're going to know a whole lot more in a little bit.

There's no chance (none) that the starter had anything to do with it.

I'm really sorry for your trouble. It sounds like John is still John.

What Stan said.  The odometer showing 1500 miles does not tell you how many miles the engine has on it.

I'm confused "so i pull over and see that the timing belt on the engine had broken.".

The timing belt is under the front cover so you would not have been looking at the timing belt but the serpentine belt.

Or was the timing cover not on the car?

@WOLFGANG posted:

  There is no adjustment of the timing belt or the tensions.

Bummer for sure.

Not really accurate. When installing a new belt, there is certainly a tensioner which must be locked down, there is no automatic spring tensioner on any Subaru of that vintage. ALL belts are manually adjusted for tension(timing, power steering, and alternator/AC).

Truly a bummer, yes. Me personally, I always change timing belts every 60k or when I first get the car. And I only buy used cars, never new. So that is one of the first things to do. Also, do the water pump, idler pulleys on the timing belt AND especially the oil pump O-ring.

EJ-25 engines are either DOHC or SOHC from 1995-2005 and have regular throttle bodies. From 2006 and up they have the drive-by-wire throttle body.

Depending on what your shop finds, it may be more economical to replace the whole engine with another used one. Have them replace all the things I mention above, and add spark plugs and head gaskets(which is a whole 'nuther ball of wax).

I'm guessing in typical JPS fashion, the ECU is aftermarket and not Subaru. And mounted in the engine bay, even though it is not weather-proof.

Again, I'm really sorry for your troubles, but even though you think the car is "new" it is really just a "newly assembled" amalgam of used, new and custom parts.

"New" Subaru motor is misleading.  Subaru does not make a crate motor like GM or Ford.  The most complete you can buy from Subaru directly is a short block.  Most people buy a rebuilt motor, usually JDM salvage bought in bulk,  with all new parts and they are often times called "new".  In most cases they are as good as new, but not necessarily "new" in the way you'd think about it.  Most JPS I've seen had an Outfornt built motor, and they are regarded as one of the best out there for aftermarket engine builds.  Any idea where yours came from?

I can only speak on EJ253, specifically '06/07 since that is what we use exclusively, but there is no manual adjustment for the timing belt tension on them.  You set the belt on the cam gears with the teeth/belt properly indexed and released the pin on the hydraulic tensioner and it takes up the slack, sets the tension, and retains the tension with wear/stretch.  It runs on the cam gears, water pump and the idlers and tensioner (oil pump is crank driven).  It is VERY important to use a top quality hydraulic tensioner as we've seen the cheap-o ones fail.  Since our guy tears down used motors for heads and top end we get to see a lot of high mile examples form the donor cars and cheap tensioners are not good...

Another crucial item is you do NOT haul one in gear.  If left in gear and tied down you can force the belt to jump timing.  If you're luck it jumps a tooth and just runs poorly, but much more than that and you bend valves.

Finally, there is an upper belt guide that is meant to help keep the belt from jumping and skipping timing.  It is used by the factory on turbo cars but not on NA cars, although the attachment point is in both engine cases.  It's a double edged sword... I've seen where it was added to an NA motor and slight belt wear coupled with a weak tensioner has allowed the belt to rub against the guard and cut it.  We do not use them for that reason, and I figure if Subaru thinks the NA is OK without it as an OEM standard, that is fine with me...  My guess would be that it saved as many motors as it killed, but that is just a guess with absolute minimal empirical data, just a hunch really...

@gemcc1 so sorry to hear your 'dr jekyll/mr hyde" saga...been there, done that!!!...i concur with @chines1....if under warranty outfront should fix your subaru issues....which luckily i did not have other that not enough fuse power to my ECU concerning fuel pressure relays....my 2018 JPS coupe had a JUNK STARTER & CHEAP BATTERY...just john boy being john boy taking $$$ shortcuts...he also left a most likely original worn out 60 yr old shift rod in my new $40K car....ck both that & the possible worn nylon shift bushing.....knowing this guy...sadly ALL bets are off considering his "warranty"...luckily this guy is a painful memory to me...if i was in your shoes..i'd make a list...bite the bullet and ship the entire car back to his san marcos "taj mahal" sanitarium....perhaps along with some legal paperwork from a lawyer and bills from your mechanic....sorry to say but being in  NYC...you are in his deranged thought process 3000 miles "out of sight, out of mind" to this piece of work...hope things work out for you...i'm definitely on your side! ... happy motoring

I’d never send the car back to JPS.

N E V E R.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

He is who he is, and can’t be otherwise.

X 2 what Stan said, sending the car back to JPS is like handing someone beating you with a 2 x 4  a second one in case the first one breaks.

My spyder engine is from Outfront. It came with a 1 year lImited warranty. Don’t remember exactly what it said but you might at least contact JPS to see if it is an Outfront motor. John at Outfront is a standup honest guy. Good luck.

@Stan Galat  @Alan Merklin @550 Phil all valid good points...my thinking was that if Dr. Jekyll /Mr. Hyde and OUTFRONT are somewhat connected warranty wise....the entire car would be needed to resolve any of the relevant "frivolities"...if not,i believe we are all in agreement that johnboy is to be avoided like TRUCKSTOP SUSHI

@WOLFGANG @chines1 I screwed up, folks.

I'm sorry, I remembered the timing tensioner is spring-operated. I was remembering some other car I worked on. For some reason I thought my 1998 EJ25 had an eccentric. I know for a fact my wife's EJ-253(2006) has a spring loaded tensioner.

@DannyP posted:

I'm sorry, I remembered the timing tensioner is spring-operated. I was remembering some other car I worked on. For some reason I thought my 1998 EJ25 had an eccentric. I know for a fact my wife's EJ-253(2006) has a spring loaded tensioner.

IIRC you guys have an Outback (Legacy chassis)?  We can't use them as donors because the ECU is completely different than an Impreza from the same year (and much harder to modify), so my experience is completely limited to 06/07 Impreza 2.5i (EJ253).  I'm surprised they'd use a different tensioner for the timing belt, but not arguing the fact, just surprised.  In th every beginning we used several other donors, EJ251, EJ25D from '99+ which were all similar but DBC instead of DBW which I prefer DBW.  For turbos we use 2004 STi, EJ257, exclusively, so I'm pretty familiar with them, but that's a whole 'other animal.

Unfortunately, so few miles over 3 years that the time but not the mileage warranty expired.  (Know you were still sorting out other issues).  I've had that happen on brand new vehicles!  JPS says 2 year warranty on Subaru powered Speedster and Outfront says 12 months on their engines (with lots of conditions).  Hopefully, a teardown will reveal at worse a bent valve or 2 and no head or piston damage. 

My son had a '96 Subaru Forester 2.5 DOHC with unknown service and 169k miles.  I bought a timing belt kit from eBay.  I realized after buying kit, that some kits were sub-par - less than robust belt, weak bearings, and weak guides.  Car was wrecked before I had a chance to install it - I procrastinated since a special tool was required to hold double OH cams from spinning during install.

New car dealerships will often negotiate "customer loyalty" repair discounts BUT doubt JPS would.  Outfront perhaps.  On my wife's Merdedes which was just past 5 year 50k miles when the engine cam gears bit the dust - the dealership paid parts and I paid labor on a $5,500 bill with a 2-year follow-on warranty.  I wasn't happy - but was when a year later Mercedes issued an extended service campaign on the issue and I was refunded my costs.

I've read that new Subaru engines now use timing chains vs belts!

Greg, I did the timing belt and the rest on my 1998 Legacy GT(EJ25) with the DOHC and 4 cam sprockets. It wasn't easy, but you can get them all to line up WITHOUT the special tool. IIRC, the driver side intake cam was the one that wanted to spin due to valve spring/lobe position. I'm sure you saw the car at least once, it was a white wagon. I flat-towed my Spyder to Carlisle from 2007-2010 with it.

My wife's '06 Impreza has the EJ253. On that one I did the head gaskets and water pump/belt/tensioner etc. It's got nearly 220k on it, and won't die.

Carey, what I was saying is they are all spring-tensioned from 1996 up, and I remembered wrong. It sucks getting old...

I can offer nothing but sympathy for your unfortunate situation.  I pray you have the patience and luck to find a reputable shop that can understand what you have going and offer a proper fix.  PS: I have a JPS turn-key Speedster (not Suby powered, air cooled)  and have experienced the JPS customer service roller coaster, which, by all accounts, both personally observed or as retold, rarely if ever ends well.

Thank you everyone for your help here and insights! i massively appreciate it .. my shop has the engine out and are diving in to see what damage has been caused by the belt coming off ... i'll report back, thanks again in the meantime, Giles