Just Saying Hi...

Lfepardo posted:

This is she cheapest retailer I found for Brad penn, and cases ship from manufacturer.

https://autoplicity.com/1110-brad-penn-oil

For the  Valvoline line , local O'releys ( in Seattle) haddock been the cheapest... But I am partial to Brad Penn product line.

im my stock VS 1915, I have tried 30w, 10w30,10w40, and 20w50... In Seattle I seem to be r verging back to straight 30w.  It requires a longer warm up time, but seems to keep my temps most stable/lower year round.

https://autoplicity.com/1110-brad-penn-oil

btw- your build thread rocks... Can't wait to see your car out on the road.

cheers

I have in stock, 0-30,5-30,10-30,30,40,50,70,10-40,20-50,15-40, & gear oil along with their diesel oils. We also have the 30wt break-in oil, assembly lube and grease.  Contact number is 1-916-255-7996 or 530-887-0800

Out of curiosity, why are there no/ few monograde fans out there?  

Local Seattle VW guys seem to favor monogrades for these almost stock daily driver engines.  A few favor 10w30.    Most are also retired, working on one car at a time from their garage shop, passing down their know how to those who come to their back door with the secret password and a case of beer/wine.

... So I'm wondering if it's a generational thing. ( I'm 44 and early in my experience/learning curve.)

- Is it because most run a performace built engine?

just curious..  2x on the "beer is good".   Some could argue wine is healthier ;-) ... 

I've been using Brag Penn SAE 30 break in "green" oil , I run it for 200 or so miles then higher zinc Shell Rotella 30 weight.

 

 Brad Penn Oil 009-7120S Engine Break In Oil

ALB posted:

The current thinking that is gaining acceptance in the VW world (and the automotive world in general, as many manufacturers are now recommending the same oil in their cars year-round) is that the same oil that your car works so well with when it's cold outside is also the right oil at higher temps. If you think of it, even when it's 100'F outside, the temperature parameters that an engine works within hasn't changed. The automotive manufacturers no longer recommend changing oil weight according to the season; they all stipulate using the same oil year round.

 

The VW engine seems to have been designed for 30 weight oil; at highways speeds the engine is turning anywhere from 2500-4000rpm and oil pressure will normally be in the neighborhood of approximately 10psi per 1,000rpm, which is what most people in the automotive industry consider optimal. The oil cooler bypass is pressure driven (and not run by a thermostat- hey, remember this was originally an economy car!) blocks off the cooler at 48psi, which allows the engine faster warm-ups and also allows oil through the cooler even at these higher rpm's. With heavier oil (eg- 20W-50) you'll get higher pressures at freeway speeds (even when at operating temps) and these higher pressures fool the the system into bypassing oil Past The Cooler, which means the engine will run hotter.  

 

Use the oil with the thinnest initial (or cold) weight you can find. Even 0W-XX oil is too heavy to lubricate properly at start up, as it needs to get up to operating temps to do it's job, but it does it a lot faster than 20W-XX. If the oil you're considering is made in a 5W-30 and a 10W-30 I would use the oil with the lower first #, as it will flow through the bearings, lubricating parts and carrying away heat that little bit sooner. As for worrying about cost, really? You're going to quibble over an extra 30 or even $40 once or twice a year when you have anywhere from 3500 to $8,000 (or more, for a couple guys) invested in an engine?

Well said, this can be a deep subject. This guy said this, my engine sails to do this, my neighbors wife uses this and so on. Bottom line! Run break in oil to start with. Do not any additional additives to the break in oil. Too much of a good thing is bad!  Then run a oil designed for flat tappet lifters. I have more air cooled customers using 10-40 rather than 20-50. Really depends on the engine clearances. On the Dyno my friend has found more power running 0-30, 5-30 than straight 30 and other heavier multi weights. 

Changing subjects...

Got the final piece Tommy engine stand build. Turns out the guy who makes this stuff out of his house lives in Huntington Beach. He's a really nice guy too.

I'll take more pics once I get it set up.

And a HUGE thank you to Aircooled.net!

I went through them when ordering my exhaust and their customer service was absolutely amazing!!!!!!

I order from them even when their price is a little higher. They provide great customer service and advice and I have more confidence in the quality of the parts than I have at some other places.

I'm pretty sure the 'skinny' one is an oil temperature sensor and I'm not sure where that one goes. The sensor at the one o'clock position is the oil pressure sensor and that goes into the block, under the distributor. The middle photo is the 'can' type with two posts on it and I really wish I knew what goes on the two posts.  My original canister only had one post and somehow or another I  bought a two post can.  That cannister, one or two post, screws into the side of a piece that is an extension for the oil pressure sensor unit. Let me know if you get any more responses.

meade

As Meade said, the skinny one is a temp sensor and a lot of people put that in the block off plate that goes on the lower right side of the universal block on the rear (you'll have to drill and tap the plate). It's immersed in the oil in the sump. The 1 post pressure sensor is stock VW and will activate the dash light when oil pressure drops below 2-3lbs, while the 2 post sensor (1 for gauge, 1 for idiot light) activates the light when pressure drops below 8-9lbs (and the reason so many people freak out  because their modified VW engine "doesn't have sufficient pressure" at idle- I've always thought the thing should be set at 5 or 6lbs, but oh well). If you realize that when using the 2 post sensor that the light may flicker at idle, pressure is still within spec (you'll see pressure on the gauge) and everything is fine, then great. If you can't get past it, go back to the stock idiot light and gauge single pole sensors.

There are other oils that are compatible with our (and other flat tappet) engines if Brad Penn is hard to find- Valvoline makes the VR1 Racing line in several weights (iIrc 10-30 is one) for street cars. Familiarize yourself with the VR1 line before buying as they also make straight racing oil (without the detergents and whatever else they add for the "street add pack") which is not what you want in your street car. Amsoil has the ZRod, and Joe Gibbs, Swepco (306?) and Redline all make suitable oils (or used to). There are some motorcycle oils that will work as well, although again, know what you're buying.

Shell Rotella T (CI4) used to be a good oil for our use, but the new CJ4 formulation has less zinc/phosphorus for newer diesel engines and so isn't suitable for air cooled engines with higher valve spring pressures. Al

Gotta go to work. Later

I always love all the knowledge you guys provide! Like I said, I'd be lost without this forum.

Didn't get much done this morning (slept in a bit) and know I'm on baby duty as the wifey heads off to teach.

I did manage to get he new MagnaSpark II installed, the new crank pulley, and started the replacement external oil sump from FB performance. I also got the oil sensor and temp on. Thanks to Carey at Beck for letting me know what adapter to buy.

I also picked up new oil. It's readily available and easy to get. I can't get 10w-30 in this stuff in CA (not really sure why and didn't look into it). So, I decided on straight 30w and the VR1 has the needed zinc and phosphate percentages suitable for our engines (as you guys recommended).

New CB 1.5 qt sump mounted with all new gaskets and copper washer. Also replaced the Jaycee oil plate rubber o-rings just to be save. Fingers crossed it doesn't leak like it did for Ted!

Just to confirm:

Magnet sticks to push rod = loose-o.ooo for valve adjustment (so 0.015 is fine for both valves per cylinder)

And

What's the average spark plug gap? (Using NGK D8EA)

And

Any internal tiny spring adjustment needed for the MagnaSpark II or is it truly plug-and-play? The tiny springs adjust advancement per the instructions...

The springs that are pre-installed are what you want . The other springs are for non-stock options. 

Loose zero: put the feel gauges in the roll-away. Set them as prescribed many, many times here (keep adjusting until you can't spin the pushrod any more, then back out until you just can). You want to know if the valves are loosening up (bad seats or cam going flat) when you do it next.

Plugs: D8EA plugs should be fine. Everybody wants a super-hot plug, but my preference is the coldest plug that will still fire cleanly (why do I want a glow-plug in an engine already prone to detonate?). Most guys run D7EA or something similar, but I've gone all the way to a "9" heat range (NGK gets colder as you go up numerically) in a higher-compression engine.

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:

Loose zero: put the feel gauges in the roll-away. Set them as prescribed many, many times here (keep adjusting until you can't spin the pushrod any more, then back out until you just can). You want to know if the valves are loosening up (bad seats or cam going flat) when you do it next.

Plugs: D8EA plugs should be fine. Everybody wants a super-hot plug, but my preference is the coldest plug that will still fire cleanly (why do I want a glow-plug in an engine already prone to detonate?). Most guys run D7EA or something similar, but I've gone all the way to a "9" heat range (NGK gets colder as you go up numerically) in a higher-compression engine.

Loose zero it is! And I meant to say "0.0015" in my last post. That's the thinnest one I have...

So , no need to adust the gap of the plugs?

Brian, set them anywhere from .024 to .028, I like .024 for NGK's

Here's a great link: http://vw.zenseeker.net/Ignition-SparkPlugs.htm

don't forget to use a bit of anti-seize on the plug threads when installing or they can gall and seize in place, then you're putting heli-coils in the head to restore the stripped threads, yipes!

Some engine work from yesterday. Refurbed and painted the fan shroud and vintage filter housings. I also painted the battery mount to match the interior color I have been using.

I also get a pass from the wifey to work on the Speedster ALL day today. Woohoo!

Getting the engine ready to run. Valve job and new gaskets, new fuel lines and breather hoses. New distributor. Does anybody know how to attach the magnaspark cable from the distributor to the coil thingy... it looks like I need to cut the cable to length and attach the clip, but there were no instructions on how to do it??

*LongFella posted:

Getting the engine ready to run. Valve job and new gaskets, new fuel lines and breather hoses. New distributor. Does anybody know how to attach the magnaspark cable from the distributor to the coil thingy... it looks like I need to cut the cable to length and attach the clip, but there were no instructions on how to do it??

http://www.jegs.com/p/MSD-Igni...ets/2027162/10002/-1

Super simple.

Looking good, Brian!

PS- Re the sump leaking- have a good look and make sure the sump's not contacting the case anywhere it's not supposed to (they touch more often than you think). All it takes is a little extra material on a fin somewhere (case or sump) and bingo! it won't seal (no matter how tight you try to torque it). If there's anywhere in question, a couple strokes with a file for clearance will fix it. Now's the time to give it a really good look over. Al

The sump leaked because of a bad stud. Some ham fist over tightened it before i took ownership. The sump plate was so chewed up from whomever trying to tighten it I had to buy that JayCee cover.

TRP posted:

The sump leaked because of a bad stud. Some ham fist over tightened it before i took ownership. The sump plate was so chewed up from whomever trying to tighten it I had to buy that JayCee cover.

 

It was a bad hack job...

It should be good now. I'm hoping to fire her up in the next couple of days. Waiting on the exhaust...

TRP posted:

*LongFella posted:

Getting the engine ready to run. Valve job and new gaskets, new fuel lines and breather hoses. New distributor. Does anybody know how to attach the magnaspark cable from the distributor to the coil thingy... it looks like I need to cut the cable to length and attach the clip, but there were no instructions on how to do it??

http://www.jegs.com/p/MSD-Igni...ets/2027162/10002/-1

Super simple.

Thanks! I found the same video when researching the process

*LongFella posted:

TRP posted:

*LongFella posted:

Getting the engine ready to run. Valve job and new gaskets, new fuel lines and breather hoses. New distributor. Does anybody know how to attach the magnaspark cable from the distributor to the coil thingy... it looks like I need to cut the cable to length and attach the clip, but there were no instructions on how to do it??

http://www.jegs.com/p/MSD-Igni...ets/2027162/10002/-1

Super simple.

Thanks! I found the same video when researching the process

I wish I had seen that video before I did mine. It gave me fits and I still don't think it's perfect. After I got it attached to the dry coil I used a zip tie on the rubber boot to help keep it in tight on the coil.

Robert M posted:

*LongFella posted:

TRP posted:

*LongFella posted:

Getting the engine ready to run. Valve job and new gaskets, new fuel lines and breather hoses. New distributor. Does anybody know how to attach the magnaspark cable from the distributor to the coil thingy... it looks like I need to cut the cable to length and attach the clip, but there were no instructions on how to do it??

http://www.jegs.com/p/MSD-Igni...ets/2027162/10002/-1

Super simple.

Thanks! I found the same video when researching the process

I wish I had seen that video before I did mine. It gave me fits and I still don't think it's perfect. After I got it attached to the dry coil I used a zip tie on the rubber boot to help keep it in tight on the coil.

It took me several tries too. I wasn't sure if it was actually clipping in place - like you hear when pressing everything else in...

We will see this week if I did it right...

I do need to get a little light test to make sure I have static timed the engine to start with... I do have a timing light to fine tune it.

Question: How much, if any, advancement should I run???

Dual carbed engines run best with 8-10' advance at idle and 28-32' at 3,000-3500rpm. At what rpm the advance will stop depends on the distributor, and each engine is different as to how much total advance it likes. The air/fuel mixture plays a big part- it takes more advance to burn an overly rich mixture so the engine will like closer to 32', while something closer to ideal will probably like 28 or 29'. You'll know you've got it right when moving a degree or 2 either way makes it run hotter. I've heard it said that dual carbs can actually like closer to 12 degrees initial (at idle) advance, but with Bosch distributors there is no way to change just the initial advance so you set it where it runs best for total.

If you experiment, Brian, please let us know where it ends up.

Btw- A friend (who's info I trust) tells me that if you machine the middle between the passages out in the intake manifolds (so there's one big plenum underneath each carb) it will idle and run at lower rpms/part throttle on all 4 cylinders instead of having the dreaded dual single barrel "2 cylinder idle". Top end performance won't be affected. Bruce says jetting and mixture set up won't be any different; it'll just run smoother, like it has dual Webers or Del's. Leave 1/2" or so at the bottom of the manifold to hold the gasket in place. Al

I'm wondering if it's even possible to static time your engine with a MagnaSpark module.  I have never done it (never even tried), but that doesn't mean it can't be done.  It's not like you've got points in there - they are pretty binary and hold state for a while.  

You may have to watch really closely with a test light - the module will simply pulse the coil, not short and hold it to ground as points do so you might see it with a regular timing light - dunno.  It might be easier, to get to TDC on #1 cylinder on the power stroke, then line up the rotor with the scribe mark on the disti case.  Then, rotate the crankshaft to 8º BTDC and re-set the disti housing to re-align with the scribe mark.  That's the best I can do.

Anyway, try it!  IIRC, when mine is at idle it's running something like 8º before TDC.  When you get it running and idling more-or-less smoothly, then have someone hold the engine RPMs at 3,000 and set the advance to 30º BTDC.

If you hold it at 3000 rpm and set the advance at that point to 30 deg. isn't there a chance the total advance might be higher than 30 at some higher rpm?

I just set my total advance without too much concern about exactly what the rpms were. Was that the wrong thing to do?

Once it stops advancing, Michael, raising the rpm's won't change it. The only issue is knowing at what rpm the distributor you have stops advancing, as the original VW's vary between 3,000 and 3500 rpm (I think). You'll know when there's too much timing (it'll detonate under full throttle), but I would check that you took the engine high enough and it's not advancing a little more. Al

Not sure if you got this Brian:

@ALB, I reved it until it stopped advancing and then set total advance there. My concern was that, if someone sets it at 3000 rpm and their distributor continues advancing to 3500, they may have too much total advance.

Robert M posted:

Not sure if you got this Brian:

 

I did and have read it a few times... still reading it... LOL!

I'm going to give it a go and see where the "out of the box" advance is set to. I believe the instructions state the "Light Silver" spring is installed thus putting it around 12-14 degrees at ~3200 rpm...

I'm going to read more tonight...

So, FedEx decided to deliver my exhaust today and not tomorrow as they said... SO... nobody was home to sign for it ! I guess I can wait one more day... 

*LongFella posted:

Robert M posted:

Not sure if you got this Brian:

 

I did and have read it a few times... still reading it... LOL!

I'm going to give it a go and see where the "out of the box" advance is set to. I believe the instructions state the "Light Silver" spring is installed thus putting it around 12-14 degrees at ~3200 rpm...

I'm going to read more tonight...

That is where it is at.

As promised, here is a pick of the engine test stand I put together. The adapter piece fits perfectly and allows the starter to line up. It's a well made piece. I'll wire up an RPM gauge and mount it on the control box. Cables are also long so that I can work on the front of the engine while it runs... also check RPMs and kill the engine it needed...

Here's my test/break-in stand.  Alum fuel tank with pump and filter on the lower tray along with battery on the opposite side. Dry sump tank is customers and I am working on a universal bracket so it's secured better. Tach, battery, fuel pressure and oil pressure gauge. Tach is positioned so you can watch it while tuning. This one is a 200 horse speedster motor����

Anthony posted:

Here's my test/break-in stand.  Alum fuel tank with pump and filter on the lower tray along with battery on the opposite side. Dry sump tank is customers and I am working on a universal bracket so it's secured better. Tach, battery, fuel pressure and oil pressure gauge. Tach is positioned so you can watch it while tuning. This one is a 200 horse speedster motor����

I don't know which to drool over: the engine test stand or that motor!?! Or both!!!

My amazing wifey got me a few little birthday presents. Yesterday was my birthday. I also got to spend the whole day working on Eleanor too

From the speed of your build your birthday comes often.  Happy Birthday

IaM-Ray posted:

From the speed of your build your birthday comes often.  Happy Birthday

Thanks! I wish the birthday came often. It feels like I am taking longer than I anticipated... I should probably start figuring out the next build... because I know I'll be itching to work on something once Eleanor is finished...