*LongFella posted:My amazing wifey got me a few little birthday presents. Yesterday was my birthday. I also got to spend the whole day working on Eleanor too
She wants the favor returned on Valentine's Day (today). Smart wife 
I took my wife to lunch yesterday and somehow ended up in a jewelry store. It's OK, it's also our 24th wedding anniversary. She deserves more for putting up with me for this long.
Longfella: That distributor comes with a bunch of (different colored) advance springs and that is what the majority of that paper is talking about. You have the ability to tailor your advance curve to your engine's requirements using a combination of different colored springs (each color has a different spring rate). That said, the way it is done is to spin the distributor at different RPM's and note the amount of advance at each step of increasing rpms. The easiest way to do this is on a distributor test stand like a Sun tester:
These machines are getting really rare, cost $$$$ and not everyone can run them competently so that's probably not an option.
The el Cheapo way would be to get the engine running and stabile in your car (or on a test stand), then attach your timing light and do your test right in the car by running it at idle and then upping the engine speed in 500 rpm steps, noting the advance at each step til it stops advancing. Just have a note pad handy and make a table of rpm versus advance noted. Where it stops advancing is adjustable with the stop bushing, too. I would shoot for 30º advance around 2,500-3,000 rpm with the red bushing (I think the vacuum advance SVDA distis give full advance around 2,500 rpm so that can be your range - 2,500-3,000).
Once that's done you can decide where you are versus the little graph on the sheet. If it were mine, I would start with the Blue Spring (lightest) to make your advance come on soonest and peak out around 2,500 rpm - more like the original Speedster advance curve.....See how it drives and then decide if you want to back off to a light silver and blue combo or go to the Silver spring alone. If it pings on moderate acceleration with hi-test (91) gas, then back off to the next lower spring combo til it stops pinging on moderate acceleration. At some point it will stop pinging, but you may introduce some "bog" in the mid-range - it's a balance.
BTW - These engines don't "ping" so much as sound like you're grinding up walnuts in them....Just so you know. The noise isn't shielded by an iron head or water jacket so beware that the sound is different. You should be able to get it to run fine on 89 gas unless you're running higher compression.
So that's the process. It's like sync'ing your carbs. Small steps, see how it runs in between and repeat til you're happy with it.
Oh, and we're spending Valentine's Day by setting up a cruise on the Disney Dream. Can't wait to get away from snow, and the Drea's crew is the best!
Attachments
Images (1)
Great advice, Gordon. Thank you!
And I'm sure I'll be doing some Disney cruises and Disneyland visits soon... my daughter LOVES Minnie Mouse!!
Hello beautiful!
Attachments
Images (1)
Woohoo! Today is the day! I've got the engine assembled and engine test ready to go. So far, I've just cranked the engine over to get the oil circulated and pressure up. The oil idiot light on my test stand went out as it should and I don't see any leaks so far.
Next stop - getting the gas line connected to my external tank and see if she'll run!
Baby daughter is napping so I will have to wait a couple hours. Good opportunity to triple check everything and make sure she's ready to start 
Attachments
Images (2)
..well?...
Baby girl is still napping :/
T - 30 minus!
It's official. I'm part of the madness...
Attachments
Images (1)
We have lift off!!!! She idles very rough for being at 1500 rpm. My external oil filter barb hose connected is linking oil, so I need to tighten them done. Time to start fine tuning this beast!
Video
Attachments
Videos (1)
Single barrel carbs (Kadrons) are notorious for running on 2 cyls at idle. I don't think that's particularly rough for those carbs. If you want this thing to purr, buy the 36 mm Webers for sale in the classifieds.
My method for a new motors is after checking for leaks and noises, to run up it up to 1400 RPM's and keep it there for 5 -6 minutes to seat things, then recheck timing 28 - 30 degrees ( full advance) at 1700 rpm's and set the carb mixtures.
Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:Single barrel carbs (Kadrons) are notorious for running on 2 cyls at idle. I don't think that's particularly rough for those carbs. If you want this thing to purr, buy the 36 mm Webers for sale in the classifieds.
I put my timing light to it and it was really high at idle. I just did a basic timing on it and it idles a LOT better now. Still a little rough...
I fixed the oil leak at my filter setup.
Found some fuel up by the carbs where the fuel line attaches. IMMEDIATLY shut the engine off. Now to solve that little problem...
The classifieds here?? Let me check...
I also have another set of Kadrons I can try if these become a pain...
If both give me sh&@, I'll look into a set of webers and sell the kadrons. I'm at my budget though :/
Alan Merklin posted:My method for a new motors is after checking for leaks and noises, to run up it up to 1400 RPM's and keep it there for 5 -6 minutes to seat things, then recheck timing 28 - 30 degrees ( full advance) at 1700 rpm's and set the carb mixtures.
I'll try that timing method. It was so high when I started, I'm surprised the engine ran...
I'll also try the different springs in the Magnaspark II I believe Gordon suggested...
I'm just happy I got the darn thing running!
This is a HUGE step in my build and being able to drive the Speedster for the first time
Alan Merklin posted:My method for a new motors is after checking for leaks and noises, to run up it up to 1400 RPM's and keep it there for 5 -6 minutes to seat things, then recheck timing 28 - 30 degrees ( full advance) at 1700 rpm's and set the carb mixtures.
Is this the same process with a magnaspark II?
Only reason I ask: I'm starting to get confused on the advance and timing stuff. The springs in the manga spark determine how "fast" the advance comes on? Do I still do the traditional twist the distributor with a timing light? Or do the springs determine the advance and I twist the distributor so that it's at TDC at idle?
Set timing total at 30, the kadron linkage if not set will cause a rough idle or at upper rpms. The mixture screw should be set at 1-1/2 turns out. The accelerator pumps will need to be adjusted. As you roll the throttle on it may cut out. Free reving you may free it. When you raise the throttle from idle and it cuts out, you have to watch the carbs as for which one needs the adjustment. The adjustment on 3 & 4 is difficult to access, a7 or 8 mm wrench. Depending on distributor, cam, headwork & compression don't go over 31-32 degrees of total advance. This may be to late but new cam, lifters piston/cylinders need to be broken in by keeping the rpms between 1800- 2000.
Good luck
Also after intial start up, check the carb bolts and manifold bolts.
*LongFella posted:Alan Merklin posted:My method for a new motors is after checking for leaks and noises, to run up it up to 1400 RPM's and keep it there for 5 -6 minutes to seat things, then recheck timing 28 - 30 degrees ( full advance) at 1700 rpm's and set the carb mixtures.
Is this the same process with a magnaspark II?
Only reason I ask: I'm starting to get confused on the advance and timing stuff. The springs in the manga spark determine how "fast" the advance comes on? Do I still do the traditional twist the distributor with a timing light? Or do the springs determine the advance and I twist the distributor so that it's at TDC at idle?
Total timing at 29-32 max!!!!!!!! Doesn't matter what distributor or crank trigger, or magneto you have. If you have a vacuum advance distributor be sure the vacuum line is connected for total advance and disconnected and plugged for initial. Set total while reving the engine to at least 1700- 1800 rpms.
Anthony posted:*LongFella posted:Alan Merklin posted:My method for a new motors is after checking for leaks and noises, to run up it up to 1400 RPM's and keep it there for 5 -6 minutes to seat things, then recheck timing 28 - 30 degrees ( full advance) at 1700 rpm's and set the carb mixtures.
Is this the same process with a magnaspark II?
Only reason I ask: I'm starting to get confused on the advance and timing stuff. The springs in the manga spark determine how "fast" the advance comes on? Do I still do the traditional twist the distributor with a timing light? Or do the springs determine the advance and I twist the distributor so that it's at TDC at idle?
Total timing at 29-32 max!!!!!!!! Doesn't matter what distributor or crank trigger, or magneto you have. If you have a vacuum advance distributor be sure the vacuum line is connected for total advance and disconnected and plugged for initial. Set total while reving the engine to at least 1700- 1800 rpms.
Roger that!
Longdude:
A distributor is a distributor is a distributor...... They're all set up the same, if they're centrifugal advance, which yours is. You do not have a vacuum advance distributor on a Magna-spark. It is essentially the same as a Bosch 009, just fancier-looking.
What gets confusing is the slope of the curve that defines the "advance curve", but that is nothing more than how fast and at what engine RPM the distributor provides what amount of spark advance.
For the time being, forget all that.
Once you have the thing idling nicely and have adjusted the idle mixture screws so that it seems to be idling more-or-less smoothly (see Danny P.s write-up on how to adjust your carbs - under "Resources"), then put a timing light on it, run the engine RPMs up to 3,000 (on your dash tach - have an assistant hold the RPMs more-or-less steady with their right foot on the gas pedal) and rotate the distributor housing one way or the other to provide 30º advance before top dead center (or 30º before zero on your crankshaft pulley) with your timing light. Yes, it's noisy - get over it. Nothing's gonna blow up. Watch out for the spinning fan belt and pulleys.
When you get it set to 30º advance, tell the assistant to let it off, then tighten the little locking clamp bolt on the distributor housing shaft and you're done. You could do the 3,000 RPM thing again to check it, but you should be pretty close. You may have to re-set your idle speed once the timing is set. Anything between 800 and 1,000 RPM idle is fine. That is set by twiddling the idle screws on the throttle linkage at both carbs, but beware - if you twiddle them you'll surely have to re-set the carb synchronization using a Snail air-flow meter.
That's it. You're done.
*LongFella posted:Alan Merklin posted:My method for a new motors is after checking for leaks and noises, to run up it up to 1400 RPM's and keep it there for 5 -6 minutes to seat things, then recheck timing 28 - 30 degrees ( full advance) at 1700 rpm's and set the carb mixtures.
Is this the same process with a magnaspark II?
Only reason I ask: I'm starting to get confused on the advance and timing stuff. The springs in the manga spark determine how "fast" the advance comes on? Do I still do the traditional twist the distributor with a timing light? Or do the springs determine the advance and I twist the distributor so that it's at TDC at idle?
Don't change the springs. Rotate the dizzy to set your timing. And you don't have vacuum on the Magnaspark.
And if you're interested in the Italian Webers here you go:
I set the timing first as a base line before adjusting the carbs. Changing springs are for fine tuning of the dizzy advance response after the timing and carbs are set up.
Robert M posted:*LongFella posted:Alan Merklin posted:My method for a new motors is after checking for leaks and noises, to run up it up to 1400 RPM's and keep it there for 5 -6 minutes to seat things, then recheck timing 28 - 30 degrees ( full advance) at 1700 rpm's and set the carb mixtures.
Is this the same process with a magnaspark II?
Only reason I ask: I'm starting to get confused on the advance and timing stuff. The springs in the manga spark determine how "fast" the advance comes on? Do I still do the traditional twist the distributor with a timing light? Or do the springs determine the advance and I twist the distributor so that it's at TDC at idle?
Don't change the springs. Rotate the dizzy to set your timing. And you don't have vacuum on the Magnaspark.
And if you're interested in the Italian Webers here you go:
Thank you!
Thank you all for the advised! I'm glad I've walked into the madness of a rare bread of the fine. I truly would be lost without you maddening mofos
Hey, some of us have all this great "info" and STILL we get lost........
My wife says that I'm "lost" most of the time. 
Round #2 and #3 from this morning...
I've learned that the advance starts coming on around 2500 and peaks at 3000 rpm's. I put the "light silver" springs back in the dizzy (which is how it came to begin with). The idle is a lot better from yesterday. I fixed the fuel leak on the carbs and there is no longer an oil leak.
I still have some learning and playing to do. I let the engine run for a good 20-30 minutes too.
Remember, this was TRP's (Ted) engine... so there is no need to break the engine in and let the rings seat...
I am going to start looking into different carbs too. I'm sure I can get the Kadrons going, but I'd rather have something a little better. Plus, I really just wanted to get the engine running and see if there were any major issues I needed to address. I can sell both pairs and put it towards some nice Webers, etc...
Attachments
Videos (2)
There is nothing wrong with the kadrons. I have them on my daily driver and drove it 280 miles daily to and from work. Drive the car and get the bugs out of it..then move on to improvements
EXCELLENT on getting that bad boy back together and running! 
FWIW - I had single throat Kadrons on my last VS (1835cc) and logged 100,000 relatively trouble-free miles. Have them again on my current VS (1915cc) with 20,000 trouble-free miles. Kadrons = Set it & forget it. Both daily drivers. 
Excited for you to get on the road in your Speedster!
Anthony posted:There is nothing wrong with the kadrons. I have them on my daily driver and drove it 280 miles daily to and from work. Drive the car and get the bugs out of it..then move on to improvements
That's my advice in general, at this point.
You need to get this thing on the road. You can pick at nits once you've got a frame of reference.
There are only four things you need to remember about setting timing in these early setup stages:
1) Make sure the maximum advance never exceeds 30 degrees
2) Listen to Anthony
3) Don't worry too much about where the advance ends up at idle
4) Listen to Anthony
As for carb tuning, get it running, put the engine in the car, go for a drive of at least 20 minutes, and only then start monkeying with carb tune.
Here's why. This is old school technology. Very old school. 1950s old school. Unlike in modern cars, there are no microprocessors or any other kind of gizmos making corrections as stuff warms up. (Our carbs don't even have chokes.)
So, there's lots of stuff that has to warm up, in both the carbs and the throttle linkage, before things settle down enough that an engine will 'hold' its tune. Trying to tune carbs before everything's really warmed up is like herding cats. If it runs great when it's only slightly warm, it almost certainly won't when you're out driving.
Also, your carbs and linkage will be at very different temperatures in the enclosed space of a Speedster engine bay than on a test stand. And they'll be very different still after driving for 20 minutes or so than when sitting at idle in your driveway.
And oh, one other thing. From the videos you've posted, it looks like your fan belt may be loose. If you don't know how to adjust it, just ask, and - just like in this little post of mine - you'll get more advice than you need.
Well said Mitch especially the part about listening to Anthony. I only wish I had found him 8 years ago. I could have saved a lot of $ and more importantly heartache. BTW it really is 1930's technology if you got back to the "people's car."
Sacto Mitch posted:
There are only four things you need to remember about setting timing in these early setup stages:
1) Make sure the maximum advance never exceeds 30 degrees
2) Listen to Anthony
3) Don't worry too much about where the advance ends up at idle
4) Listen to Anthony
As for carb tuning, get it running, put the engine in the car, go for a drive of at least 20 minutes, and only then start monkeying with carb tune.
Here's why. This is old school technology. Very old school. 1950s old school. Unlike in modern cars, there are no microprocessors or any other kind of gizmos making corrections as stuff warms up. (Our carbs don't even have chokes.)
So, there's lots of stuff that has to warm up, in both the carbs and the throttle linkage, before things settle down enough that an engine will 'hold' its tune. Trying to tune carbs before everything's really warmed up is like herding cats. If it runs great when it's only slightly warm, it almost certainly won't when you're out driving.
Also, your carbs and linkage will be at very different temperatures in the enclosed space of a Speedster engine bay than on a test stand. And they'll be very different still after driving for 20 minutes or so than when sitting at idle in your driveway.
And oh, one other thing. From the videos you've posted, it looks like your fan belt may be loose. If you don't know how to adjust it, just ask, and - just like in this little post of mine - you'll get more advice than you need.
Listen to Anthony. Got it!
So far, the advance maxes at 27-28 at 3000 rpms. It is just below 7-8 at idle.
I'll look at the belt again and see if I can get it tighter 
MusbJim posted:EXCELLENT on getting that bad boy back together and running!
FWIW - I had single throat Kadrons on my last VS (1835cc) and logged 100,000 relatively trouble-free miles. Have them again on my current VS (1915cc) with 20,000 trouble-free miles. Kadrons = Set it & forget it. Both daily drivers.
Excited for you to get on the road in your Speedster!
I might bug you next weekend if you have time to help get the engine in. I'll send you a text
*LongFella posted:Sacto Mitch posted:
There are only four things you need to remember about setting timing in these early setup stages:
1) Make sure the maximum advance never exceeds 30 degrees
2) Listen to Anthony
3) Don't worry too much about where the advance ends up at idle
4) Listen to Anthony
As for carb tuning, get it running, put the engine in the car, go for a drive of at least 20 minutes, and only then start monkeying with carb tune.
Here's why. This is old school technology. Very old school. 1950s old school. Unlike in modern cars, there are no microprocessors or any other kind of gizmos making corrections as stuff warms up. (Our carbs don't even have chokes.)
So, there's lots of stuff that has to warm up, in both the carbs and the throttle linkage, before things settle down enough that an engine will 'hold' its tune. Trying to tune carbs before everything's really warmed up is like herding cats. If it runs great when it's only slightly warm, it almost certainly won't when you're out driving.
Also, your carbs and linkage will be at very different temperatures in the enclosed space of a Speedster engine bay than on a test stand. And they'll be very different still after driving for 20 minutes or so than when sitting at idle in your driveway.
And oh, one other thing. From the videos you've posted, it looks like your fan belt may be loose. If you don't know how to adjust it, just ask, and - just like in this little post of mine - you'll get more advice than you need.
Listen to Anthony. Got it!
So far, the advance maxes at 27-28 at 3000 rpms. It is just below 7-8 at idle.
I'll look at the belt again and see if I can get it tighter
I was going to mention the belt yesterday and forgot to. Just take out a couple more shims/spacers and it should tighten up. If not then replace the belt. Not sure if you have the old one on there or not.
It's looking good. So we should be seeing you at SLO this year then right?
Kadrons are fine set it and forget it....
Robert M posted:*LongFella posted:Sacto Mitch posted:
There are only four things you need to remember about setting timing in these early setup stages:
1) Make sure the maximum advance never exceeds 30 degrees
2) Listen to Anthony
3) Don't worry too much about where the advance ends up at idle
4) Listen to Anthony
As for carb tuning, get it running, put the engine in the car, go for a drive of at least 20 minutes, and only then start monkeying with carb tune.
Here's why. This is old school technology. Very old school. 1950s old school. Unlike in modern cars, there are no microprocessors or any other kind of gizmos making corrections as stuff warms up. (Our carbs don't even have chokes.)
So, there's lots of stuff that has to warm up, in both the carbs and the throttle linkage, before things settle down enough that an engine will 'hold' its tune. Trying to tune carbs before everything's really warmed up is like herding cats. If it runs great when it's only slightly warm, it almost certainly won't when you're out driving.
Also, your carbs and linkage will be at very different temperatures in the enclosed space of a Speedster engine bay than on a test stand. And they'll be very different still after driving for 20 minutes or so than when sitting at idle in your driveway.
And oh, one other thing. From the videos you've posted, it looks like your fan belt may be loose. If you don't know how to adjust it, just ask, and - just like in this little post of mine - you'll get more advice than you need.
Listen to Anthony. Got it!
So far, the advance maxes at 27-28 at 3000 rpms. It is just below 7-8 at idle.
I'll look at the belt again and see if I can get it tighter
I was going to mention the belt yesterday and forgot to. Just take out a couple more shims/spacers and it should tighten up. If not then replace the belt. Not sure if you have the old one on there or not.
It's looking good. So we should be seeing you at SLO this year then right?
Amateur move... the old one was one 
I bought both of TRP's engines and did a horrible job labeling everything during disassembly. So, I grabbed the old 1600 engine belt. TRP had a new belt and in my "rush" I grabbed the wrong one.
Thank you all for pointing the belt out. I should have caught that when putting the shims on...
Note to self:
Slow down. Take your time. Be the tortoise.
"The slower but consistent tortoise causes less waste and is more desirable than the speedy hare that races ahead and then stops occasionally to doze."
Brian - sent you PM.