Skip to main content

Tom Blankinship posted:

I have a CB 2054 with a matched Rancho trans that's coming out of my Beck this winter.  The engine has about 20K miles & the trans 3K.

I'm going Suby and looking for a good home for my engine. You won't get a better deal on an engine this size.

PM me the price.

 

i have a transmission already mounted up, but might be able to work with Kirk and see if he will buy it back...

I'm probably one of the least engine/mechanical knowledgeable  members of this site but  from speedster driving experience I totally agree with Al (Yoda)...GO BIGGER !!!

My stroked 2110cc easily kept me up with fast lane traffic on the Interstate with enough torque in 4th gear for 'show off' acceleration on impulse!...and the third gear torque scooting around town guaranteed enviable 'attention' from bystanders.

I think Blankenship's offer of a low mileage 2054 is the way to go. Pat Downs builds a reliable Type1 with quality components that would be difficult (and expensive) to duplicate.

Will your suspension be swing axle or IRS?

 

 

Carl Berry CT. posted:

I'm probably one of the least engine/mechanical knowledgeable  members of this site but  from speedster driving experience I totally agree with Al (Yoda)...GO BIGGER !!!

My stroked 2110cc easily kept me up with fast lane traffic on the Interstate with enough torque in 4th gear for 'show off' acceleration on impulse!...and the third gear torque scooting around town guaranteed enviable 'attention' from bystanders.

I think Blankenship's offer of a low mileage 2054 is the way to go. Pat Downs builds a reliable Type1 with quality components that would be difficult (and expensive) to duplicate.

Will your suspension be swing axle or IRS?

 

 

It's a swing axle (1966 VW pan/VIN).

Not much of an update, but more of an "ask for some forum support and suggestion" update. And yes, I need to become a supporting member. That will happen shortly

 

I've been tossing the idea around of buying a motor, building a building, buying a longblock, etc... And after a LOT of research/reading, I've decided to built my own. When I originally started this build, the idea was to do it from the ground up. Do EVERYTHING myself even if it took a long time. My thinking is that when it is done there will be a LOT of personal sentimental value to it and that is important to me (insert tears here... jk).

 

With that being said, I decided to go NO bigger then a 1914cc engine. I know bigger is better, but I don't plan to drive and use a bigger engine. I would be wasting money because I wouldn't drive it to the full capacity. Plus, I have a daily driver that does 0-60 in 3.87 secs (currently).

 

I found a few sites and came across one that had a good list of parts for a decent 1914cc engine. What do you guys think? I do NOT want to break the bank, but I do not want cheap. It will be a piece meal build and not "buy everything at once" type build. Remember, I've got a 7 month old and she is eating and pooping more... that means more formula/food and more diapers... all worth it

 

Here is the list I've got so far. I'm thinking the case will come from CB Performance already bored to 94...

(CB Performance and Eagle brands)

1914cc, 94x69

 - 94 Cima pistons

- 69 counterweighted crank

- lightweight weight flywheel

- stock rods

- All balanced

- 110 cam (285dur x .430lift)

- 1.25 rockers

- Solid shaft kit for rockers

- thin-wall chromoly pushrods

- 040 stock VW heads fully ported with reshaped and hemicut chambers

- a competition valve job with dual springs

- Compression ratio 7.5 to 1

- 1 1/2 " header

- Dual Kadrons or 42 Webers

- 009 distributor

- Bosch blue coil

- No heater boxes

 

What do you guys think? This is my first stab at putting a list together...

Sacto Mitch posted:
*LongFella posted:

 

 ...What do you guys think? This is my first stab at putting a list together...

I think this thread is about to get a lot longer.

Yes and no.

 

1914cc engine size only. Looking for longevity and reliability. No machine work needed as I don't have the tools. I could get them, but don't want to go that route.

 

Maybe thoughts on "who" (brand) to get some of the stuff through?

 

Or, maybe my list is WAY off and needs re-visioning?

Here is the list I've got so far. I'm thinking the case will come from CB Performance already bored to 94...

(CB Performance and Eagle brands)

1914cc, 94x69

 - 94 Cima pistons - Go with AA and save the money. Especially if you plan on running low compression. Have them balanced.  DPR Machine shop

- 69 counterweighted crank - DPR CRANK IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO

- lightweight weight flywheel - 14LB DPR FLYWHEEL

- stock rods - I-Beam rods with ARP bolt upgrade and have them balanced

- All balanced - Yes.  DPR will do that if you get an engine kit from them

- 110 cam (285dur x .430lift) - yes or a 120

- 1.25 rockers - not really needed and after market stuff is not really the best unless you spend big bucks (i.e. Scat). 

- Solid shaft kit for rockers - yes

- thin-wall chromoly pushrods - yes

- 040 stock VW heads fully ported with reshaped and hemicut chambers - hemicut is old school and you have to build a himicut motor to take advantage of them.  Steve Tim stage 1 head is more than enough.  POWER IS IN THE HEADS FOR A VW.

- a competition valve job with dual springs - New heads Steve Tims

- Compression ratio 7.5 to 1 - Seems a bit low.  You can get away with 8.5 to 1 with dual webber type carbs IDF

- 1 1/2 " header - Yes

- Dual Kadrons or 42 Webers - Weber style.  EMPI not a bad choice for the money. 

- 009 distributor - Find original in new shape or buy two after market cuz they are a bit hit and miss with the timing curv

- Bosch blue coil - Yup.

 

Consider: Straight cut cam gears, Taylor wires, Elec ign (compu fire or Pertronx),

 

Who's doing the heads, Brian? There's a lot of controversy surrounding the practice of opening the combustion chambers up to the semi-hemi shape. Of course, there's the crowd that says "works great!". The issue with hemi cut heads, though, is you have to run more ignition timing (I believe 4-6' total advance) for the burn in the chambers to  work properly (otherwise some of the burn is happening in the exhaust port on the way out), and if the distributor is just twisted to achieve the extra advance (and not modified so the idle advance stays the same) the engine can be hard to start (when warm?). Some people (respected engine builders in the VW industry) say they've never been able to get an engine with the "semi-hemi" heads to run properly, claiming the extra timing transfered a lot of heat to the heads so the engine ran hot and didn't have the power it should.

Guys have been running engines like you are building (ported heads, W110/1.25 rockers) with 8 3/4 or 9:1 compression with great success, getting great life and power out of them with reworked factory chambers (unshrouding around the valves, polishing the combustion chambers themselves smooth so there's no sharp edges to pre-ignite on) on the present day gas for a while now. You'll also leave 10-15 hp "on the table" going the semi-hemi head route. 

Please note I'm the first to admit that I've never run an engine with the semi-hemi heads, and am just repeating what I've read and what people have told me. I have followed the discussions over the years on the forums closely, and the couple people I've talked to that did try them didn't report satisfactory results.

What you're building will be a lot of fun, and move your Speedster along quite nicely. If you do some small Webers or Dellorto's it will run smoother (and the idle and off idle characteristics will be much nicer). Instead of the chrome moly pushrods, think about the aluminum ones from Aircooled.net http://vwparts.aircooled.net/A...of-8-p/acnhdalpr.htm

They are lighter than chromoly (easier on the valve springs) and won't be noisy when the engine warms up, as they grow with the engine like they are supposed to (the reason VW pushrods are aluminum). Don't forget a full flow filter or deep sump. Al

Ps- Building it yourself (if you've got the patience and equipment to do it) is very satisfying. When it starts up and runs, oh boy! If, otoh, you decide to have it built, Pat Downs builds a great engine (apparently, from the number of satisfied customers on here), as do others.

PS- Alex- Why would you put straight cam gears in a mild engine like this? It doesn't need them, they're noisy and it's an expense ($100?) that's not needed. I'd rather spend the money on Aircooled.net's alulminum pushrods...

Last edited by ALB

PS- Alex- Why would you put straight cam gears in a mild engine like this? It doesn't need them, they're noisy and it's an expense ($100?) that's not needed. I'd rather spend the money on Aircooled.net's alulminum pushrods...

Yes they are noisy, but some people like them the louder the better.  I like and use them because it frees up horse power and extends the life of the cam bearings.  Also, they are stronger than stock and way better than Stock aftermarket. 356 have simi straights for the performance. 

Another negative about straight cut gears is you have less choice of back lash and you can get a tapping noise at idle if there is to much.  Its a trade off, but I said "consider".  It's a personal choice. 

Aftermarket aluminum pushrods are suppose to be pretty strong and quitter than steel,  I just can't attest to them as I have never used them.  In my personal motor, I went with steel and single high rev springs and the valve train nose drives me nuts. To the point were I am considering redoing the heads with stock springs or just trying the aluminum.  They need to be cut to length as I got a 85.5x74 = 1699cc.  Don't ask why, I just did. LOL

 

 

 

Vintage Motorcars - Alex posted:

PS- Alex- Why would you put straight cam gears in a mild engine like this? It doesn't need them, they're noisy and it's an expense ($100?) that's not needed. I'd rather spend the money on Aircooled.net's alulminum pushrods...

Yes they are noisy, but some people like them the louder the better.  I like and use them because it frees up horse power and extends the life of the cam bearings.  Also, they are stronger than stock and way better than Stock aftermarket. 356 have simi straights for the performance. 

Another negative about straight cut gears is you have less choice of back lash and you can get a tapping noise at idle if there is to much.  Its a trade off, but I said "consider".  It's a personal choice. 

Aftermarket aluminum pushrods are suppose to be pretty strong and quitter than steel,  I just can't attest to them as I have never used them.  In my personal motor, I went with steel and single high rev springs and the valve train nose drives me nuts. To the point were I am considering redoing the heads with stock springs or just trying the aluminum.  They need to be cut to length as I got a 85.5x74 = 1699cc.  Don't ask why, I just did. LOL

If you think this crowd is going to be wowed by the constant whine of straight cut cam gears you really don't know your market. It's the young bunch that generally find that sort of thing appealing, and from what I've read on other forums, for a good number of them it wears thin pretty quickly as well. As for freeing up horsepower, in a high winding engine there would certainly be a worthwhile gain, but in the engine in question it's so small I wonder if the difference is even worth measuring. The extra noise at idle (if the backlash is anything more than stock spec)- again, not really a selling point with this gang. And a dual thrust cam bearing will be fine with most VW sized dual springs. 

Try the aluminum pushrods from Aircooled.net I linked in my earlier post; everyone I know who's used them says they do the trick, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. And please help me understand- why did you go through all the trouble to build a 74mm stroke engine and then limit the displacement to 1699cc's? Sorry, have to ask, as I really don't get the logic on that one.

From the MUSBJIM 'keep-it-simple' file, here is the discussion on my engine...

Q: What engine you running?

A: it's a 1915 with Kadrons & A-1 Sidewinder

Q: How much HP, what bore, stroke, cam & grind, chrome-moly or aluminum pushrods, blah-blah-blah...

A: I don't know about any of that except that I get in, starts on the first bump, gets great mileage, I've driven it all over the Western U.S and enjoyed every minute of the ride without a bit of angst. And, if it breaks, it won't cost me an arm & a leg to replace it.

End of engine discussion. 

11141261_382241278641743_121418870226806300_o

 

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 11141261_382241278641743_121418870226806300_o

Great info everyone! Thank you!

 

Here's a new list:

- CB Performance Case (https://www.cbperformance.com/...asp?ProductCode=1156)

- 94MM pistons (AA, balanced by DPR), I-Beam rods

- 69 DPR counterweighted crank

- 110 cam (285dur x .430lift)

- Steve Tims Stage 1 Heads (40 x 35mm Stainless valves, Oval intake port 69cc port volume, Ported chambers 60cc with no step, Dual valve springs &Chromoly retainers, 3 angle valve job , Ready to install)

- 1.25 rockers (still debating)

 

Still doing more research on the rest everyone suggested. So far, I think that is a good list to begin with.

Vintage Motorcars - Alex posted:

Here is the list I've got so far. I'm thinking the case will come from CB Performance already bored to 94...

(CB Performance and Eagle brands)

1914cc, 94x69

 - 94 Cima pistons - Go with AA and save the money. Especially if you plan on running low compression. Have them balanced.  DPR Machine shop

- 69 counterweighted crank - DPR CRANK IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO

- lightweight weight flywheel - 14LB DPR FLYWHEEL

- stock rods - I-Beam rods with ARP bolt upgrade and have them balanced

- All balanced - Yes.  DPR will do that if you get an engine kit from them

- 110 cam (285dur x .430lift) - yes or a 120

- 1.25 rockers - not really needed and after market stuff is not really the best unless you spend big bucks (i.e. Scat). 

- Solid shaft kit for rockers - yes

- thin-wall chromoly pushrods - yes

- 040 stock VW heads fully ported with reshaped and hemicut chambers - hemicut is old school and you have to build a himicut motor to take advantage of them.  Steve Tim stage 1 head is more than enough.  POWER IS IN THE HEADS FOR A VW.

- a competition valve job with dual springs - New heads Steve Tims

- Compression ratio 7.5 to 1 - Seems a bit low.  You can get away with 8.5 to 1 with dual webber type carbs IDF

- 1 1/2 " header - Yes

- Dual Kadrons or 42 Webers - Weber style.  EMPI not a bad choice for the money. 

- 009 distributor - Find original in new shape or buy two after market cuz they are a bit hit and miss with the timing curv

- Bosch blue coil - Yup.

 

Consider: Straight cut cam gears, Taylor wires, Elec ign (compu fire or Pertronx),

 

Thank you, Alex! This was very helpful!

 

Plus, I did not know about DPR... good stuff... and they are right up the freeway from me! And Steve Tims is in Riverside, which is not too far of a drive...

If I was to build a new engine today, I would do it myself, but buy one of CB Performance's engine kits. Probably a new aluminum case that is pre-clearanced as well. They match everything to work right together. You still have to carefully fit and measure as you assemble, but the chances of it all being right are WAY better. I would go for a 2332 as well, with some good heads and port-matched manifolds.

Do it once, do it right. You can always back off the throttle......

DannyP posted:

If I was to build a new engine today, I would do it myself, but buy one of CB Performance's engine kits. Probably a new aluminum case that is pre-clearanced as well. They match everything to work right together. You still have to carefully fit and measure as you assemble, but the chances of it all being right are WAY better. I would go for a 2332 as well, with some good heads and port-matched manifolds.

Do it once, do it right. You can always back off the throttle......

I was looking at their kit and options, but I'm not looking to spend that at the moment Remember, I've got a 7 month old now. I have to get up before 5AM and sneak in the garage during the weekends to get work done 

Last edited by *LongFella

I think, Brian, if you stick with some properly ported stock valve (35x32) heads (instead of the 40x35 heads people are trying to talk you into) the smaller valves and ports will will suit your engine's powerband better. Ported stock valve heads are capable of producing 120-125 hp, and a 1915 that revs to 5500 or 6,000rpm (depending on the cam/rocker combo) can make 105 or 110 (maybe even 115?) horsepower, still with reasonable intake tract airspeed at lower rpm's, which translates into more power throughout the rpm range (not just peak hp) and better gas mileage. The bigger valve heads (which will produce 170hp under the right conditions) on this engine will produce a few more hp at the top 500 or 1,000 rpm (which in a car like this you won't use very often),  but bottom end and possibly lower mid-range torque will suffer because the bigger ports will have lower airspeed at the lower rpms (which, if you think of it, is where you will do so much of your driving), and I don't think that's what you're looking for here. This will even affect your mileage, which I realize isn't a huge deal, but it will tell you that the engine isn't as efficient as it could be.

The flow in the intake ports of stock heads peaks at about .400" valve lift (not much gain in lifting the valve much more), so if you look at cams you'll notice a lot of cams designed for 1.1:1 (stock 1500/1600) rockers have somewhere around the same amount of lift. A cam with .450 or more lift doesn't make much more power in an engine with stock heads than one that's lift is matched to the flow of the heads. Flow in properly modified stock valve heads peaks substantially higher (around .480-.500" valve lift) and this is why we put 1.25 rockers on cams like the W110- to take full advantage of the porting work we paid so dearly for. Another option would be the Engle FK7 with 1.4 rockers. 

Remember, I'm not trying to sell you anything, and am just giving you the benefit of my experience. Hope this helps. Al

 

ALB posted:

I think, Brian, if you stick with some properly ported stock valve (35x32) heads (instead of the 40x35 heads people are trying to talk you into) the smaller valves and ports will will suit your engine's powerband better. Ported stock valve heads are capable of producing 120-125 hp, and a 1915 that revs to 5500 or 6,000rpm (depending on the cam/rocker combo) can make 105 or 110 (maybe even 115?) horsepower, still with reasonable intake tract airspeed at lower rpm's, which translates into more power throughout the rpm range (not just peak hp) and better gas mileage. The bigger valve heads (which will produce 170hp under the right conditions) on this engine will produce a few more hp at the top 500 or 1,000 rpm (which in a car like this you won't use very often),  but bottom end and possibly lower mid-range torque will suffer because the bigger ports will have lower airspeed at the lower rpms (which, if you think of it, is where you will do so much of your driving), and I don't think that's what you're looking for here. This will even affect your mileage, which I realize isn't a huge deal, but it will tell you that the engine isn't as efficient as it could be.

The flow in the intake ports of stock heads peaks at about .400" valve lift (not much gain in lifting the valve much more), so if you look at cams you'll notice a lot of cams designed for 1.1:1 (stock 1500/1600) rockers have somewhere around the same amount of lift. A cam with .450 or more lift doesn't make much more power in an engine with stock heads than one that's lift is matched to the flow of the heads. Flow in properly modified stock valve heads peaks substantially higher (around .480-.500" valve lift) and this is why we put 1.25 rockers on cams like the W110- to take full advantage of the porting work we paid so dearly for. Another option would be the Engle FK7 with 1.4 rockers. 

Remember, I'm not trying to sell you anything, and am just giving you the benefit of my experience. Hope this helps. Al

 

Your pretty much on the right track. Few things to consider.  Weight of the car is one of them.  do you really need more HP or Torque on a light car? Fk7 cam in my experience has fallen short of expectation. 

ALB posted:
Vintage Motorcars - Alex posted:

PS- Alex- Why would you put straight cam gears in a mild engine like this? It doesn't need them, they're noisy and it's an expense ($100?) that's not needed. I'd rather spend the money on Aircooled.net's alulminum pushrods...

Yes they are noisy, but some people like them the louder the better.  I like and use them because it frees up horse power and extends the life of the cam bearings.  Also, they are stronger than stock and way better than Stock aftermarket. 356 have simi straights for the performance. 

Another negative about straight cut gears is you have less choice of back lash and you can get a tapping noise at idle if there is to much.  Its a trade off, but I said "consider".  It's a personal choice. 

Aftermarket aluminum pushrods are suppose to be pretty strong and quitter than steel,  I just can't attest to them as I have never used them.  In my personal motor, I went with steel and single high rev springs and the valve train nose drives me nuts. To the point were I am considering redoing the heads with stock springs or just trying the aluminum.  They need to be cut to length as I got a 85.5x74 = 1699cc.  Don't ask why, I just did. LOL

If you think this crowd is going to be wowed by the constant whine of straight cut cam gears you really don't know your market. It's the young bunch that generally find that sort of thing appealing, and from what I've read on other forums, for a good number of them it wears thin pretty quickly as well. As for freeing up horsepower, in a high winding engine there would certainly be a worthwhile gain, but in the engine in question it's so small I wonder if the difference is even worth measuring. The extra noise at idle (if the backlash is anything more than stock spec)- again, not really a selling point with this gang. And a dual thrust cam bearing will be fine with most VW sized dual springs. 

Try the aluminum pushrods from Aircooled.net I linked in my earlier post; everyone I know who's used them says they do the trick, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. And please help me understand- why did you go through all the trouble to build a 74mm stroke engine and then limit the displacement to 1699cc's? Sorry, have to ask, as I really don't get the logic on that one.

Hi, This crowed is divers just like any crowd.  My method of building a motor is firs to sit down and talk it out with the customer.  I try to build purpose motors.  For what purpose is the car/motor going to be used for.  That is the number one question.  Second, how are you going to drive it and what is your driving style.

For the heads, I recommended Steve Tims.  Every time I have ordered from Steve, he asked what's my deck height and desired compression, what size motor, what cam, etc.  And I always ask what his recommendation is for the heads for that particular application.  Knock on wood, he has been dead on. 

He is on the right track doing is research and asking questions.  Its good that you ad to it as it good to have two sides and maybe he will find the middle.  He is in the boiler plate stage of the motor, which is skipped by a lot of people and they just buy and assemble what is on the shelf. 

There are a lot of Speedster owners here that have straight cut gears and they like them, other don't.  Any head with HP springs ads a lot of side thrust on the cam bearings, to the point were I have taken apart a few of them with double thrust bearings that have been worn out.  The size of the motor has nothing to do with the thrust on the cam, its spring tension.

1699?  Well, I wanted a stock looking motor for Limited addition Bug, but wanted to have more power and still maintain mileage.  And I just wanted to do something different.  Has a 74mm DPR crank, VW Balanced stroke cleared lightened rods, custom cam grind, 85.5 non stroke pistons, VW heads port cleaned and polished chamber smoothed angle valve job ss valves HD retainers and HD springs, 34PICT 3 carb bored a bit and jetted, and VW Mexican exhaust.   Getting 30mpg and cruses at 80MPH no problem.  Its a baby torque motor.  Oh, almost forgot, STRAIGHT CUT GEARS and I love them. LOL

More reading and more research. Minor change to the list below:

 

- CB Performance Case (https://www.cbperformance.com/...asp?ProductCode=1156)

- 94MM pistons (AA, balanced by DPR), I-Beam rods (balanced by DPR)

- 69 DPR counterweighted crank

- Eagle 110 cam (285dur x .430lift)

- Steve Tims Heads (stock 37x32, properly ported)

- 1.25 rockers

 

How is the list so far? Will it produce good smooth power, retain drivability, maintain longevity, and not break the bank?

 

Does my cam have the correct dur. and lift?

Last edited by *LongFella

Not that anybody is interested, but I put a little picture of my daily driver in my profile. It's a pre-ordered 2015 MKVII Golf R. It is number 397 of 500. Got a fancy watch and signed certificate from the VW President when the car arrived. It's been a fun car to wrench on (engine, ECU, and all) and currently does 0-60 in 3.87 secs. And there's a LOT more on the table still to get more power...

 

With that said, I don't need "power" in my speedster. Just a fun, reliable, easy to maintain weekend drive to the local meet or grocery store kind of car...

This is going to be a nice engine, Brian. As I said earlier, 8 3/4:1 compression is pretty safe- keep the deck height low (.040- .045") so the quench pads aren't transferring heat to the rest of the heads and with 54cc combustion chambers you'll be right on the mark. Mr. Tims will be able to provide the heads with the chambers cut to size. You could go to 9:1 (52cc chambers), but if it gets really hot for a lot of the summer where you are it might be best to dial it back that little bit. Don't forget the engine will need extra oil capacity (deep sump) and a full flow filter.

Read this- http://bobhooversblog.blogspot...007/05/hvx-mods.html

The lifter bores will be lubricated 100% of the time, there will be more oil in the rocker boxes of the heads to carry away more heat (heads will run cooler) and the rockers will be properly lubricated. There are people who will tell you "millions of VW engines have run without these mods, they don't need them", and while the first part of the statement is right, anyone who's taken apart a few high mileage stock engines has seen rocker arm bushing wear and rocker shaft galling (more on the right side; surprise, surprise!) and you're now going to rev your engine faster/higher. These updates will allow your engine to live longer and provide more lubrication (which translated to less wear and heat). Talk to me (or someone else who knows these modifications) more before you do this, as there are a couple things to be aware of.

While I'm thinking of it- A 26mm oil pump is more than enough (bigger will pump more oil than needed and just create more friction/heat). Full flow the engine with a pump cover with an exit fitting to go to a filter and then back to the case. Most oil pumps with in and out fittings (or the filter attached) have passages in the cover that are too small and are a restriction themselves. Al

crhemi (Bill) posted:

You ain't gonna have no time to build a motor with an infant on board.

Save and by a running motor. Then you can DRIVE should you ever find the time the next ten years as your family will require more and more of your time!

The joy really is about getting out and driving these things every chance you get...

Finding time is tough, but I usually can sneak away in the early mornings on the weekends.

 

I've thought long and hard about the engine. Buy a turnkey, used turnkey, or build. I keep leaning towards the build because it will allow me to piece it together and not be immediately out disposable income.

 

Plus, there is something to be said about building this speedster from the ground up and being able to say you built the engine too (at least for me) 

Add Reply

Post Content
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×