I closed the book on the Green Coupe when I sold it. A very expensive lesson I learned the hard way. I
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
I closed the book on the Green Coupe when I sold it. A very expensive lesson I learned the hard way. I
Tom - JPS might have the ability to build nice cars, but long story short -he's a DICK!!
Now all you have to do is stay on course and eye on the prize!
Stay well and keep in touch!
Peace - Out!
Now all you have to do is stay on course and eye on the prize!
Stay well and keep in touch!
Peace - Out!
On the positive side - You're right, the people here make this hobby what it is. I could find a cool older 911, Alfa, or something even less common, for less $$ than I have in the Speedster. It would probably be faster, more comfortable, and safer, but it wouldn't be as much fun. Look forward to when you can jump back in with both feet and make use of the lessons that you've learned.
"So the FOOL that I am I responded and told him what I had done, who
did the work, and after much prodding I told him what it cost me."
You actually talked about money spent? Coin, religion, sex life, and
which Beetle was the REAL genius. Four things that are NEVER talked about ! !
You're a pushover, Dude.
Hey, while I have you here . . . let's you and me talk about your
banking account and code numbers. Now, what did you say your social
Security number is again? Your Mom's Maiden Name was what?
did the work, and after much prodding I told him what it cost me."
You actually talked about money spent? Coin, religion, sex life, and
which Beetle was the REAL genius. Four things that are NEVER talked about ! !
You're a pushover, Dude.
Hey, while I have you here . . . let's you and me talk about your
banking account and code numbers. Now, what did you say your social
Security number is again? Your Mom's Maiden Name was what?
Tom,
No big deal on Steele. Don't let it get you down. Don't you remember, as a kid, that one little bastard in your class that always had to be right and have the last word? You know..."did too...."
Well, kids like that grow up and become...
No big deal on Steele. Don't let it get you down. Don't you remember, as a kid, that one little bastard in your class that always had to be right and have the last word? You know..."did too...."
Well, kids like that grow up and become...
Good advice from Terry. Life's too short to dwell on the dark side. Congrats on the sale and be at peace with your decision and your SOC friends. All is good.
...another vote for Terry's POV.
Your expectations were up here; John's product was down here somewhere.
In between there were a lot of agitant(SP?) factors, emotions and dollars.
If you build another replicar, you will surely do it differently.
Your expectations were up here; John's product was down here somewhere.
In between there were a lot of agitant(SP?) factors, emotions and dollars.
If you build another replicar, you will surely do it differently.
Tom,
If I remember the story correctly, isn't this John Steele ( the one who's telling you he could have fixed your car cheaper)the same guy that pointedly avoided you at Carlisle last year? Sounds a lot like armchair quaterbacking to me.
If I remember the story correctly, isn't this John Steele ( the one who's telling you he could have fixed your car cheaper)the same guy that pointedly avoided you at Carlisle last year? Sounds a lot like armchair quaterbacking to me.
No question....Beetle Bailey WAS a genius.
Hang in there, Tom. We'll be looking forward to seeing your next ride and your new SEG.
ECB
ECB
Water and dollars over the dam, wtf, we have learned that a "hemorrhoid" just never really goes away...forge on Tom, looking to "your tomorrow" whe you'll have that speedster you want and enjoy owning it. ~ Alan
Tom.
For what it's worth. I'm sure that JPS has lost sales and thousands of $$$$$ over this entire issue and I am sure he will lose even more over time time as potential new owners read these threads.
Troy
For what it's worth. I'm sure that JPS has lost sales and thousands of $$$$$ over this entire issue and I am sure he will lose even more over time time as potential new owners read these threads.
Troy
Attachments
Images (1)
TOM,
CAN U PLEASE POST THE EMAILS BETWEEN U AND JOHN
TO EVERYONE ELSE
I AM TAKING A BREAK FROM WORK BUT WOULD RIP JOHN THIS WEEKEND
I WILL SEE HIS EMAILS ON SATURDAY
TOM IS IT U OR JOHN
U SEEM TO WANT ATTENTION
TROY,
JOHN'S SHOP IS FULL WITH BUILD'S, I CANT KEEP MINE THERE OVERNIGHT WHEN I WANT SOMETHING DONE, THE COUPE BUILDS ARE AWESOME AND SURROUND THE BUILDING. BUSINESS FOR JPS IS AWESOME AND YES I AM HIS FRIEND
CAN U PLEASE POST THE EMAILS BETWEEN U AND JOHN
TO EVERYONE ELSE
I AM TAKING A BREAK FROM WORK BUT WOULD RIP JOHN THIS WEEKEND
I WILL SEE HIS EMAILS ON SATURDAY
TOM IS IT U OR JOHN
U SEEM TO WANT ATTENTION
TROY,
JOHN'S SHOP IS FULL WITH BUILD'S, I CANT KEEP MINE THERE OVERNIGHT WHEN I WANT SOMETHING DONE, THE COUPE BUILDS ARE AWESOME AND SURROUND THE BUILDING. BUSINESS FOR JPS IS AWESOME AND YES I AM HIS FRIEND
Hey Tom, would you like some cheeze with that whine....
I love this website!
Tom; I'm on your side, when ever a car is not what you expected it to be and the manufacturer or builder gives you the round around it's a freak'n shame. Not only does it sour you on them but then you have to listen to all their defenders. My POS was a brand new 1974 Chevy Vega, for which I canceled a buy for a 74 Toyota. This was during that infamous gas crisis we had in 73, gas wasn't expensive just scarce. I traded in a 71 Javelin that got 15mpg, the POS Vega got 16mpg and wasn't half the car the Javelin was. That Vega sputtered under the stress of running the A/C, rusted and finally died (really died) with less than 50K miles on it. I never owned another Chevy since. Write it off as an expensive lesson and look away. From what I've read and heard through the grape(internet)vine I'd take care on what I'd say about JPS or any other business for fear of legal action. There's a lot of sharks around that don't necessarily swim in the ocean and they're looking for an easy buck.
Attachments
Images (1)
My Father had a new Vega in '73, it was a total POS.
At that time I drove a 62' 409 Chevy convertible. Since I was still
a kid in college with only a part time job delivering blood, he paid for most of the gas.
Used to KILL him.
At that time I drove a 62' 409 Chevy convertible. Since I was still
a kid in college with only a part time job delivering blood, he paid for most of the gas.
Used to KILL him.
I'll bet John at JPS is not losing any business. Not everyone who owns a speedster is on this forum.I'll bet the fact that the cars look so cool people drool.Further many of his customers live in relatively close proximity to his shop. Further average rainfall in CA is very low.Finally many have said that his paint finish is very good.So my guess is he is still selling cars.I don't know how the current economy is affecting these specialty car makers now. I hope they are all able to weather the downturn.
Giddyup,giddyup,giddy up 409.
Let's put a fork in this. It's over. The car was fixed and sold what's the point of rehashing this? Any lessons to be learned we're, or should have been learned, long ago. I can see posting about the issue during ownership and subsequent repairs ect... but posting about this is overkill. Get over this.
You're right Mickey, It absolutely IS over.
So no Gerd, no emails will be posted. If you really think I just want attention or question the validity of what I have said - you are just another extra horse part yourself. Go drink some more Steele Koolaid. You fortunately live relatively close so he can't ditch you. I KNOW there have been many JPS customers that have received FAR less than reasonable customer care. I find it incredible a businessman would treat customers in such a manner and simply reported one more unbelievable action by JPS. In my mind I have a moral obligation to report. I wish I had known some of the stories I have heard from other mistreated JPS customers BEFORE I sent my first check to JPS.
Nolan - the truth is the truth. If JPS wants to sue me, trust me there is so much MORE damaging correspondence in my files that has never been seen anywhere publicly that it would make his lawyer's head spin. Then there is the fact that I'm broke and he has nothing to gain from me. Finally - From what I've been told I've been slandered by JPS, not the other way around. He's told many lies about me to many people.
As a businessman, I always tried to avoid lawsuits. They take up a ton of time and money. The consumer almost always wins and most attorneys push the business to settle for $10k or less if they can as it's cheaper than the legal fees in almost ANY case - even a no risk case. There is no justice. That's why you bend over backwards in business to please the customer as much as you can (within reason) until it totally does not make sense. Not to mention the real motive in business for customer care - you want referrals and repeat business. That's what shocked me - JPs didn't care and took NO responsibility.
ENOUGH. As Mickey said, It's over.
The Car is sold. I am done. I will not have any additional contact with Steele. I was an idiot for taking his bait and thinking he gave a hoot. Sorry for being so stupid to begin with. Some of you did try to quietly warn me. But damn, I wanted that coupe.
Love is blind. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
Opps can't forget . . .
TC- The Genius of the BEETLES was Dr. Porsche - I know you knew that. As for the BeAtles - The DEAD ones were the genius behind their success. I used to think Paul was a genius too until he married with no pre-nup and really got screwed. Hopefully your money's not on Richard Starkey.
Thanks for the advice . . . You were right all along. BTW you ever finish that steel coupe project from 2 years ago? Whatever happened to that?????
So no Gerd, no emails will be posted. If you really think I just want attention or question the validity of what I have said - you are just another extra horse part yourself. Go drink some more Steele Koolaid. You fortunately live relatively close so he can't ditch you. I KNOW there have been many JPS customers that have received FAR less than reasonable customer care. I find it incredible a businessman would treat customers in such a manner and simply reported one more unbelievable action by JPS. In my mind I have a moral obligation to report. I wish I had known some of the stories I have heard from other mistreated JPS customers BEFORE I sent my first check to JPS.
Nolan - the truth is the truth. If JPS wants to sue me, trust me there is so much MORE damaging correspondence in my files that has never been seen anywhere publicly that it would make his lawyer's head spin. Then there is the fact that I'm broke and he has nothing to gain from me. Finally - From what I've been told I've been slandered by JPS, not the other way around. He's told many lies about me to many people.
As a businessman, I always tried to avoid lawsuits. They take up a ton of time and money. The consumer almost always wins and most attorneys push the business to settle for $10k or less if they can as it's cheaper than the legal fees in almost ANY case - even a no risk case. There is no justice. That's why you bend over backwards in business to please the customer as much as you can (within reason) until it totally does not make sense. Not to mention the real motive in business for customer care - you want referrals and repeat business. That's what shocked me - JPs didn't care and took NO responsibility.
ENOUGH. As Mickey said, It's over.
The Car is sold. I am done. I will not have any additional contact with Steele. I was an idiot for taking his bait and thinking he gave a hoot. Sorry for being so stupid to begin with. Some of you did try to quietly warn me. But damn, I wanted that coupe.
Love is blind. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
Opps can't forget . . .
TC- The Genius of the BEETLES was Dr. Porsche - I know you knew that. As for the BeAtles - The DEAD ones were the genius behind their success. I used to think Paul was a genius too until he married with no pre-nup and really got screwed. Hopefully your money's not on Richard Starkey.
Thanks for the advice . . . You were right all along. BTW you ever finish that steel coupe project from 2 years ago? Whatever happened to that?????
...that's the 'Madness' part about the 'Welcome to The Madness' greeting!
Tom - I believe Mickey was talking to you about getting over it, at least that is the way I read it. What exactly were you hoping to gain from your post? Again, everyone reads words and derives meanings differently from them. Without the benefit of being able to read the "other side", we only get your version. Is this truly unbiased reporting, if that was your intention? It seems it's just who you are, as that is the way you have presented your story from the very beginning. Pretty much one sided.
Tom, I don't know you, but Warren has a point, every post from you is whining about one thing or another, you are losing some of your credibility with some of us..even your last post where you are going to stick a fork in it was more whining...your bringing me down dude..
Well, I for one appreciate Tom posting a follow up to problems he had with JPS. At the time of original posting, I read each post and then met Tom and got to see his car up close at Carlisle --- and some of the issues first hand. As an original buyer of a CMC kit car back in '89 - I can commensurate with his dissatisfation with a company and lack of being able to get any satisfaction once mone exchanged hands. Al Gore hadn't invented the internet back then and all I could do was call them long distance and send certified letters to them. I actually thought I was the only one having problems with them. I actually got 99% of parts bought from them so I was one of more fortunate ones. Had the internet been around then and I heard of complaints, I would not have dealt with them at all! When I started to read this thread I thought I'd hear Tom say - "much to my surprize I received a hefty check reimbursing me for my out of pocket expenses" --- that's what I would have expected JPS to do to ensure their reputation. Ha, even CMC eventually sent me replacement parts (replacement hood and trunk lid) and a check for $500 before they filed for bankruptcy (or was it the FL attorney general closed them down). In my case the CMC product was fine it was their business principles that sucked!
Tom,
Not that it matters in the end, but I'm behind you one hundred
percent on all of this!
I KNOW that I wasn't able to pitch in and actually do anything
on your car, but traveling half way down the Eastern Seaboard
to turn a wrench seemed . . . well . . . insane! None the less,
I DID shout loudly in print on your behalf, got Gordon pissed at
me as a result, and have always had your back in this debacle.
Rave on! It's a Brave New Year ! ! ! !
TC
Not that it matters in the end, but I'm behind you one hundred
percent on all of this!
I KNOW that I wasn't able to pitch in and actually do anything
on your car, but traveling half way down the Eastern Seaboard
to turn a wrench seemed . . . well . . . insane! None the less,
I DID shout loudly in print on your behalf, got Gordon pissed at
me as a result, and have always had your back in this debacle.
Rave on! It's a Brave New Year ! ! ! !
TC
Be aware that, Tom's speedster was not a unique situation.
Tom did right to share the previous information as it is vidal for all potential buyers herein to be made aware of the green coupe follies and not stumble into the same unfortunate situation.
I could sit here for another hour and share much similar history as I have worked on a number of cars to correct faults from that same MFG.
"Ding"..oooops, there goes the timer, this thread is well done. Alan
Tom did right to share the previous information as it is vidal for all potential buyers herein to be made aware of the green coupe follies and not stumble into the same unfortunate situation.
I could sit here for another hour and share much similar history as I have worked on a number of cars to correct faults from that same MFG.
"Ding"..oooops, there goes the timer, this thread is well done. Alan
I for one, appriciate Tom's posts on his experience with the Green Coupe. It all occured while I was in the market for a Coupe. Based on what I saw a Carlisle and the Green Coupe thread, I opted for another builder. Glad it's all over for you Tom and thanks for sharing your experience.
Just to set the record straight here, it's my opinion that this is "going beyond" the necessary.
We are all very aware of the issues of the green coupe. I, as many of us, are very thankful to Tom for posting his experience with JPS. And we're also thankful to others for posting thier experiences with other builders, but there comes a time when "experience" has to end.
I for one don't really care that Tom and JPS are still needling one another over petty things. I DO care about how the car was built, delivered, repaired, ect... but thats it.
Now I'm going back to the picture of the UPS girl.
We are all very aware of the issues of the green coupe. I, as many of us, are very thankful to Tom for posting his experience with JPS. And we're also thankful to others for posting thier experiences with other builders, but there comes a time when "experience" has to end.
I for one don't really care that Tom and JPS are still needling one another over petty things. I DO care about how the car was built, delivered, repaired, ect... but thats it.
Now I'm going back to the picture of the UPS girl.
Thank you Mickey, I agree, there is a fine line between reporting and Whining, in this case it was crossed....now where did that UPS girl go to....
I'll go along with Wolfgang and several others in support of Tom. Tom has kept us well informed of his experiences with this car and I would hope and expect others would do the same with their experiences - positive or negative - regardless of who the builder/seller was...that's how we stay informed and base our buying decisions. It doesn't matter if his car is sold or not, he was updating us on further follow-up from the builder after that car was sold it was still business involved with the sale and experience of owning the car. For years many of the people that got screwed by CMC's antics posted their experiences and bitches - long after CMC was gone - some still do. In this case the seller had one last opportunity to make good, he didn't - 'nuff said.
I'm a little concerned about making any more comments on this post, but there is something big time wrong here. Some of you guys are missing the major point. Tom, from the very beginning, only gave his side. Many of you jumped on that part. Many of you saw first hand what the car looked like when you helped Tom get it fixed, and instantly formed your opinion. I understand. The part that has had me bugged from the beginning is that the story was always one sided. I don't blame John Steele from getting in the trenches on this. He has stayed above it and I have to commend him for that. That is business smart. From everything I have read recently, nothing has changed on Tom's view.
I am not a John Steele fan. I have met him a couple of times and each time I would say I saw a little ego problem. For example, one time at the shop, I was touching a car that was in for service and he jumped me about what it was going to cost to fix what I had touched. What? Excuse me? If I had been there to buy, I would have been out-of-there immediately. On the other hand, he gave me a ride in Gerd's car, maybe before Gerd was in it. So, I don't know where this guy is. What you need to do is buy a Honda.
My point is Tom is only giving us his side without any documentation of the other side. IMHO, Tom has one thing in mind. That is to try to damage a builder, whoever he is, with his one-sided view because, in his mind, he got burned. Maybe his whinning has saved a few from having the same experience, but I really doubt that JPS would still be in business if all this crap was truely accurate. Hey, I have owned a VS and now a Beck, and I have had problems with both. I have worked it out with both builders. Kirk fixed everything that I bitched about. Carey has helped me beyond what I would expect since I bought the car second hand. That is the nature of the beast with these cars. Tom, get over yourself and move on. I really feel sorry for the builder you buy your new car from. I sure hope he visits this site. If I were him, I would not do business with you.
I am not a John Steele fan. I have met him a couple of times and each time I would say I saw a little ego problem. For example, one time at the shop, I was touching a car that was in for service and he jumped me about what it was going to cost to fix what I had touched. What? Excuse me? If I had been there to buy, I would have been out-of-there immediately. On the other hand, he gave me a ride in Gerd's car, maybe before Gerd was in it. So, I don't know where this guy is. What you need to do is buy a Honda.
My point is Tom is only giving us his side without any documentation of the other side. IMHO, Tom has one thing in mind. That is to try to damage a builder, whoever he is, with his one-sided view because, in his mind, he got burned. Maybe his whinning has saved a few from having the same experience, but I really doubt that JPS would still be in business if all this crap was truely accurate. Hey, I have owned a VS and now a Beck, and I have had problems with both. I have worked it out with both builders. Kirk fixed everything that I bitched about. Carey has helped me beyond what I would expect since I bought the car second hand. That is the nature of the beast with these cars. Tom, get over yourself and move on. I really feel sorry for the builder you buy your new car from. I sure hope he visits this site. If I were him, I would not do business with you.
Apparently the "no touching" thing is common among builders as John told me the same when I visited him even during my car build. By now even my son knows about that. We have the same experience when Thunder Ranch was showing his car at LA car show (which most of the time everybody sits and fiddle with everything inside the car). When my son came too close to Thunder Ranch's car, Tom jumped and told my son not to touch anything. I am not sure if this is also true with the vintage car shows, maybe Vince can shed a light on this as he recently was a judge on the La Jolla concourse.
Warren, I have seen some of the emails from the other side, and believe me it's not a pretty picture. So I take issue with the "one-sided" comment, although I CAN see where you are coming from, as all you have seen is Tom's side.
Having crawled in, around, and under the car, I think I have a good picture of the workmanship. Also having pulled the motor, disassembled it, and reinstalled it. I like the finish and fit of some things. However there was more I didn't like which has been covered before. And let's not forget having to pull a head and replace the pushrod tubes on one side, they were crushed during shipping!
Remember, I am a self-built Spyder owner. I have never owned a Speedster, but I have looked at and worked on a few, so I have zero manufacturer bias. But let's face it, the basic DNA is the same as a Spyder, all the mechanicals are the same.
I have been "done" with this car since August when we put the motor back in. Tom, put any more John-mails in the trash, save your money and make your choice, again.
Eddy, I can't believe how rude some people are at car shows. At a very dusty show, I watched a guy basically rub the dirt into my rear fender, why? Isn't it understood that you look, don't touch unless the owner TELLS you it's ok?
Having crawled in, around, and under the car, I think I have a good picture of the workmanship. Also having pulled the motor, disassembled it, and reinstalled it. I like the finish and fit of some things. However there was more I didn't like which has been covered before. And let's not forget having to pull a head and replace the pushrod tubes on one side, they were crushed during shipping!
Remember, I am a self-built Spyder owner. I have never owned a Speedster, but I have looked at and worked on a few, so I have zero manufacturer bias. But let's face it, the basic DNA is the same as a Spyder, all the mechanicals are the same.
I have been "done" with this car since August when we put the motor back in. Tom, put any more John-mails in the trash, save your money and make your choice, again.
Eddy, I can't believe how rude some people are at car shows. At a very dusty show, I watched a guy basically rub the dirt into my rear fender, why? Isn't it understood that you look, don't touch unless the owner TELLS you it's ok?
Warren,
As I understand it, one of the many purposes of this forum is to advise the members of positive - and negative - experiences with the industry. In many cases both have happened in the past. Are you suggesting that if a builder/seller is not willing to respond to business-related statements posted in this forum (and I understand why they might not want to do that) then the buyer should not be allowed to state their own viewpoint? If that's the case (and the rule?) then should we expect to see negative experiences censored or the posters harrassed and only positive experiences posted in the future? I'm having a hard time understanding the bitch.
As I understand it, one of the many purposes of this forum is to advise the members of positive - and negative - experiences with the industry. In many cases both have happened in the past. Are you suggesting that if a builder/seller is not willing to respond to business-related statements posted in this forum (and I understand why they might not want to do that) then the buyer should not be allowed to state their own viewpoint? If that's the case (and the rule?) then should we expect to see negative experiences censored or the posters harrassed and only positive experiences posted in the future? I'm having a hard time understanding the bitch.
Can anybody out there tell me which is better - Pan or Tube frame?
BWAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA!!!
BWAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA!!!
Jim I. - The answer is yes.
Others - Being a simple minded guy, let me try to better explain my position in a simple kind of way: "You don't need to use a sledge hammer to kill a gnat".
I am absolutely not suggesting that anything should be censored on this site or anywhere else, although in the past Theron, the moderator, has had to step in for one reason or another. My point was Tom said he was reporting for the good of the people or something like that. That may be, but I don't think anyone can argue that the story has been pretty much one sided, even if it has some validity. And, that it has been going on and on and on.
I would bet, if the truth be told, all the other manufacturers have had this same kind of situation or one like it at one time or another. How did they deal with it? Who knows? Probably better than JPS, but that's just a guess.
All the others are building lots of cars. Why haven't we heard more of these negative stories from others on this forum? Is it just JPS? Is it just Tom? Is it that maybe most Speedster owners don't contribute on this site? Could be all this stuff, I guess. I have to believe that we are just a small piece of the "Speedster Replica Owner" pie. I just wonder if everyone did participate here, what kind of reports would we be getting. My bet is that the reports would be overwhemingly positive, but that's just my two cents, for whatever it's worth.
One last thought. I am not trying to throw blame in either direction here. I think we can all learn from this. I do, however, feel that this story has been told with meaning other than just reporting an experience. But then, that's just me and what the hell do I know.
Others - Being a simple minded guy, let me try to better explain my position in a simple kind of way: "You don't need to use a sledge hammer to kill a gnat".
I am absolutely not suggesting that anything should be censored on this site or anywhere else, although in the past Theron, the moderator, has had to step in for one reason or another. My point was Tom said he was reporting for the good of the people or something like that. That may be, but I don't think anyone can argue that the story has been pretty much one sided, even if it has some validity. And, that it has been going on and on and on.
I would bet, if the truth be told, all the other manufacturers have had this same kind of situation or one like it at one time or another. How did they deal with it? Who knows? Probably better than JPS, but that's just a guess.
All the others are building lots of cars. Why haven't we heard more of these negative stories from others on this forum? Is it just JPS? Is it just Tom? Is it that maybe most Speedster owners don't contribute on this site? Could be all this stuff, I guess. I have to believe that we are just a small piece of the "Speedster Replica Owner" pie. I just wonder if everyone did participate here, what kind of reports would we be getting. My bet is that the reports would be overwhemingly positive, but that's just my two cents, for whatever it's worth.
One last thought. I am not trying to throw blame in either direction here. I think we can all learn from this. I do, however, feel that this story has been told with meaning other than just reporting an experience. But then, that's just me and what the hell do I know.
Okay, one more comment then lock it.
I own a JPS and I have had a fair share of problems.
Some might be me, some JPS.
As anyone here who has met John Steele knows, he's not the easiest guy to communicate with. Depending on mood, time of day, weather...you never know if the conversation will be receptive or not.
I had problems with my car from day 1. 60 miles out from picking Penny up, she broke down. John came out with a trailer and picked up the car. I noticed something about the interior and mentioned it to John. He said that's the way it is. Next day, I picked up the car and noticed that the interior problem was fixed. It wasn't a small fix as it required removing gauges to get at the eyebrow.
Over the next year there were constant issues of which John either blew off or he remedied by talking with the mechanic and paying for the fix. When it got to a point, John drove up here (500+ miles) and trailered Penny back to his shop. He brought it back as well.
Did that solve all the problems? No. But I felt that Mr. Steele was trying to do right. I realized I had to take on all problems from then on.
This past summer my Serrano-built engine sucked a valve seat. We pulled the engine and I took it to Ken Jansen, a respected engine builder on the San Francisco peninsula. He found what I was expecting: nothing but garbage inside. Still, I got 21k out of it and Ken's trying to figure how I did it. While the engine was being rebuilt (at a very reasonable price) I decided to redo the transaxle. I wanted to go with a Gene Berg 5 speed, but it required the use of my existing Rancho Performance box. The tranny builder (another Ken) remarked that the existing transaxle was a bunch of garbage, with used parts and improperly installed parts.
Why do I bring this up? Because it brings to light how some of these cars are so reasonably priced. I mean, it's pretty amazing that builders can offer a hand-built turnkey car for under $30k. There's not a lot of profit unless you build a bunch of them or you get your vendors to discount the price. Result? You don't get much when you're paying $2-3k for a 2110 engine and $300 for a transaxle.
What I'm saying here is this: JPS builds a great car for the money but it's unrealistic. John promises more than he can deliver as a result of that.
I don't run JPS, but if I did I would sell the cars as rollers and leave the drive train to the owner, or I'd have the owner deal directly with the engine/drivetrain suppliers.
I'd also raise the price to a level that would make it profitable and possible to back up what I sold.
I remain friends with John Steele and never hesitate to contact him with various questions. Regardless of the problems I've had I'm still amazed at what I have for the price I paid.
I'm also very thankful that the purchase of my car has introduced me to life-long friends and invaluable information from this site and others.
END THE FREAKIN THREAD NOW!
I own a JPS and I have had a fair share of problems.
Some might be me, some JPS.
As anyone here who has met John Steele knows, he's not the easiest guy to communicate with. Depending on mood, time of day, weather...you never know if the conversation will be receptive or not.
I had problems with my car from day 1. 60 miles out from picking Penny up, she broke down. John came out with a trailer and picked up the car. I noticed something about the interior and mentioned it to John. He said that's the way it is. Next day, I picked up the car and noticed that the interior problem was fixed. It wasn't a small fix as it required removing gauges to get at the eyebrow.
Over the next year there were constant issues of which John either blew off or he remedied by talking with the mechanic and paying for the fix. When it got to a point, John drove up here (500+ miles) and trailered Penny back to his shop. He brought it back as well.
Did that solve all the problems? No. But I felt that Mr. Steele was trying to do right. I realized I had to take on all problems from then on.
This past summer my Serrano-built engine sucked a valve seat. We pulled the engine and I took it to Ken Jansen, a respected engine builder on the San Francisco peninsula. He found what I was expecting: nothing but garbage inside. Still, I got 21k out of it and Ken's trying to figure how I did it. While the engine was being rebuilt (at a very reasonable price) I decided to redo the transaxle. I wanted to go with a Gene Berg 5 speed, but it required the use of my existing Rancho Performance box. The tranny builder (another Ken) remarked that the existing transaxle was a bunch of garbage, with used parts and improperly installed parts.
Why do I bring this up? Because it brings to light how some of these cars are so reasonably priced. I mean, it's pretty amazing that builders can offer a hand-built turnkey car for under $30k. There's not a lot of profit unless you build a bunch of them or you get your vendors to discount the price. Result? You don't get much when you're paying $2-3k for a 2110 engine and $300 for a transaxle.
What I'm saying here is this: JPS builds a great car for the money but it's unrealistic. John promises more than he can deliver as a result of that.
I don't run JPS, but if I did I would sell the cars as rollers and leave the drive train to the owner, or I'd have the owner deal directly with the engine/drivetrain suppliers.
I'd also raise the price to a level that would make it profitable and possible to back up what I sold.
I remain friends with John Steele and never hesitate to contact him with various questions. Regardless of the problems I've had I'm still amazed at what I have for the price I paid.
I'm also very thankful that the purchase of my car has introduced me to life-long friends and invaluable information from this site and others.
END THE FREAKIN THREAD NOW!
Don't touch my frigging car....but you can touch this......