Just sold on BAT. Hope Lane got what he wanted for it.
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I love reading the comments on BAT - there are people that use it as a forum to tell everyone what they have already in their garage as a reason for not bidding…..
@NeenahSpeedster posted:I love reading the comments on BAT - there are people that use it as a forum to tell everyone what they have already in there garage as a reason for not bidding…..
haha so true "I would have bought it if not for my other supercars
$65,000 was a really good deal for that coupe.
$65K is a pretty good pile of money. Wonder what he's going to buy with it?? Hmmm . . . Some think Miata 
, I'm voting for Cayman.
My guess would be a replacement for his current ride. Fast , comfortable and safe. Can't go too far wrong with a Bimmer.
He already has one of those. ??
We had to drop the reserve. I would have expected more given the number of views and watchers, and particularly given the $83k VS of last week. Oh well...
Beautiful car! Hope We see new owner around on SE coast?
No idea. The winning bidder is from the northeast, so I doubt I'll see it again.
@Lane Anderson posted:We had to drop the reserve. I would have expected more given the number of views and watchers, and particularly given the $83k VS of last week. Oh well...
The world is upside down. The auction was perfect - the 3rd party Lane chose was attentive, transparent, and informative. There were over 100 really good, well-shot, clear photographs. Carey posted and answered questions at the perfect time. There were friends of Lane who posted personal affidavits for the car.
There was soooo much big talk - "I'm going to buy this car", then just disappearing when it came time to bid. If a pan-based Speedster (no matter how nice) is worth $83K, how in the world was a tube-framed coupe only worth $65K? The bidding was poised to take off.... and then just stalled out. I had the over/under at $90K in my mind, and I would have taken "over".
Building a nice coupe is 2x the work of a Speedster. The glass and trim alone adds a freakish amount of work. I've got no desire for one, but I've been told for years that the world is pining for them.
The mind reels. People have no idea what they're doing.
Wow... $65K + BAT fees is a STEAL! Crazy...
@Stan Galat posted:Building a nice coupe is 2x the work of a Speedster. The glass and trim alone adds a freakish amount of work. I've got no desire for one, but I've been told for years that the world is pining for them.
^this
The conversations Greg and I have about the glass/trim install process... just wow... I would say it is THE hardest part and takes a TON of time...
I figured at least 75k. Oh well.
I think Lane is still right side up on this deal.
I really had a vision of $80k - $85k as it is one unique Coupe...... I would have a difficult time letting it go for the $65k but as Lane said: "Oh well".
I hope my buddy Lane is good with the sale.
That's all that counts!
You might consider the Cayman S. I think you will fit, and it is a great car.
@Stan Galat posted:The world is upside down. The auction was perfect - the 3rd party Lane chose was attentive, transparent, and informative. There were over 100 really good, well-shot, clear photographs. Carey posted and answered questions at the perfect time. There were friends of Lane who posted personal affidavits for the car.
There was soooo much big talk - "I'm going to buy this car", then just disappearing when it came time to bid. If a pan-based Speedster (no matter how nice) is worth $83K, how in the world was a tube-framed coupe only worth $65K? The bidding was poised to take off.... and then just stalled out. I had the over/under at $90K in my mind, and I would have taken "over".
Building a nice coupe is 2x the work of a Speedster. The glass and trim alone adds a freakish amount of work. I've got no desire for one, but I've been told for years that the world is pining for them.
The mind reels. People have no idea what they're doing.
The vast majority of people are followers. That’s a trendsetter car.*
Same thing only different with Ed’s Spyder.
Personally, I would have held out for some post RNM emails. But it’s not my car.
* I’m old enough to remember how universally pilloried the first “Outlaw” cars were on BaT.
Historically, 356 coupes have always trailed speedsters and even cabriolets in final sale price. Five years ago, coupes brought less than half the price of a speedster/cabriolet (I’m talking originals, here, but it applies to replicas, too).
Yes, there is an enhanced demand right now for replica coupes, simply because of the low number being produced - sort of an artificial demand because of limited supply.
Lane! let us know what you land on as a replacement DD/weekend thrasher. Maybe a 680 hp Mitsubishi Eclipse set up for a road course? 😉 🤔
Knowing BAT I'll bet shiny Fuchs and plaid seats would have been worth about $10K. Auctions always remind me of what a friend called Varmint Theory, which is to say varmints are attracted to flashy objects.
Shrug it off, Lane and start the fun part, dreaming about what you'll do next! Don't forget, we're more than happy to chime in! Spending other people's money is one of our treasured pastimes.
@JMM (Michael) posted:Knowing BAT I'll bet shiny Fuchs and plaid seats would have been worth about $10K. Auctions always remind me of what a friend called Varmint Theory, which is to say varmints are attracted to flashy objects.
To be sure. The comments about the hubcaps (or lack of them) made it clear that the world is full of doofuses. I've got a set of polished 15" deep 6 clones that they'd have gone ape over. I don't want 'em.
The crowd wants what the crowd wants, and the crowd wants a Cloud 9 speced and marketed VMC Speedster, apparently. A thing is only worth what a buyer and seller agree it is.
We all try to follow the ups and downs of these auctions because we like to feel good about our decision to own and operate these contraptions - but that's a bad way to look at them, at least in my opinion. They're plastic clown cars, and we buy them or build them because we love them. Other people's love for them is going to ebb and flow with the fashion of the minute - and I couldn't care less. When replicas brought bupkis on the auction sites, I was pouring money and time into my car... not because I thought I'd get a great ROA (or even break even), but because I loved the stupid thing.
Now they're worth a fortune if you have the secret sauce combo, and a lot less if you don't.
Does that mean people should be specing their cars like Roy does, or like they want to? The things we generally value here are not the same thing Daddy Warbucks over on BaT is looking for. He wants a slavish replication of a 1957 356 Speedster. If that means a wheezy 1600 with dual Kadrons, then by golly the car should have a wheezy 1600 with dual Kadrons. 2L mills, cars with 911 shrouds, things with turbos or Subarus (or heaven help you, turbo Subarus) need not apply. It's not just that the good stuff doesn't add value, the good stuff actually seems to take it away.
Watch me not care. I watched this auction start to stop because I like Lane, and I wished him the best. I feel like he was robbed, and like Carey's craftsmanship was undervalued, but I don't feel like it hurt me financially - because my car was never an investment.
So, we get up, dust off, and head out to the garage to flush money down the rat-hole, as we always have - smug in the knowledge that everything we do to make our car more "ours" makes it less "theirs".
I'm good with that.
Catch 22. If more people had any idea it might sell that cheap, it would never have sold that cheap.
There were also a lot of questions as to how many miles were actually on the engine (before rebuild) vs the 4000 that were on the total build. The 3rd party seller tried to answer twice and still didn't provide an uber clear answer.
It's a blurry part of the replica world to newbies in that no one seems to know (or care to remember) and in this case came from an older Subaru, if I recall.
It's not enough to say it's a Subaru engine. I believe he said it came out of an '07 Subaru Legacy(?) but went on to say, quote "The mileage is 4,000 miles" with a new drive train.
It's the only part that comes across as a bit vague and wasn't done perfectly but as I said, applies to the whole replica world and VW engines as well.
I guess I'm lost. Both Lane and Carey pretty clearly stated that the shortblock was brand new from Subaru. The engine has 4000 mi on it. How is that "unknown" or ambiguous?
@Stan Galat, I enjoyed the reference to Daddy Warbucks. I wonder how many know who he is/was.
I also was very happy to see you say "I couldn't care less". So many say "I could care less" without realizing what they are actually saying.
Makes me think WTH am I doing building the style of Outlaw speedster that has been rolling around in my head for years. Maybe, the Berrien chassis with Mendeola suspension, Neal brakes, fiberglass tonneau etc. will not ring loud and wide. Perhaps, I should reconfigure my avenue of thought by selling off the 2165 in favor of a 1600cc w/ dual Solex carbs, hanging bumpers, driving lights, overriders, side molding, padded dash - brow and a Nardi horn button :~(
@Alan Merklin posted:Makes me think WTH am I doing building the style of Outlaw speedster that has been rolling around in my head for years. Maybe, the Berrien chassis with Mendeola suspension, Neal brakes, fiberglass tonneau etc. will not ring loud and wide. Perhaps, I should reconfigure my avenue of thought by selling off the 2165 in favor of a 1600cc w/ dual Solex carbs, hanging bumpers, driving lights, overriders, side molding, padded dash - brow and a Nardi horn button :~(
No way. On your build, saddling a special chassis with a standard motor in hopes of some conformity would be shooting yourself in the foot. The folks that appreciate the chassis would be put off by the motor and vice versa.
“Don’t change horses in the middle of the stream” 
You just gotta hope for the best if you’re building it to sell.
@JMM (Michael) posted:Knowing BAT I'll bet shiny Fuchs and plaid seats would have been worth about $10K. Auctions always remind me of what a friend called Varmint Theory, which is to say varmints are attracted to shiny objects
Ten grand?
ps: when did 14” Fuchs become a thing? There are two 356s on BaT with ‘em. (The other one has plaid interior, too. I guess it’s a thing now.) 
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Again, I feel like the slow kid, but if you didn't want to do a special build, Al, why did you buy such a special car?
There are still unfinished CMCs out there waiting to be built with swing-axles, rear drums, stock transaxles, and 1641s with single carbs.
The reserve was dropped? At the beginning of the auction an original 356 done in outlaw style came up at the same time, its currently at 50k with 9 hrs to go. Is BAT trying to protect the marque ie real vs plastic?. I also thought Lanes car would go out around 85k based on all the observations previously noted.
I also think the guy who said it was HIS car and tolled on and on and then disappeared didn't help as I think some might have thought, deep pockets here so why bother as he would just wait until the last minute and jump in.
His tone reminded me of Mr. Bansai
I want to thank everybody who chimed in with positive comments. I really appreciate that. As you might expect, I am a little disappointed in the hammer price as it was at the very bottom of my expected price window, but if I'd kept the car I would still have the same issues that prompted me to sell in the first place - My legs aren't getting any shorter after all .
So I guess it's time to move on. The question of the day is what will I buy next. The factors in play are:
- I'm retiring in a couple of years or so. At that point I won't be able to justify three cars. Also, if we move to the mountains as planned, finding a three car garage is pricey and difficult. I also feel the need to simplify things at this point in my life.
- I would be better off with one car for me that encompasses any practical needs I might have as well as scratching my sports car itch. Major practical needs can be dealt with using Pam's car, but sometimes that won't be feasible. I probably want something that I am comfortable taking to the track once or twice a year.
- Has modern safety features. This is a need largely because the drivers where I live are godawful. I hired an old buddy of mine a few years back who moved down from DC. He says the drivers here are worse - much worse. On top of that - and probably a factor in it - is the fact that the population in and around Charleston is exploding. The town of Mount Pleasant, where I live, has almost tripled in size since we moved here in 2002 and the roads are woefully behind that growth. I am paranoid every time I take the Beck out. On top of all this, there are virtually no nice, twisty backroads to drive on. The increasing unpleasantness of driving here is a significant reason I want to move to the mountains.
- I want something that is fun to drive, looks good, has a modicum of practicality, is reliable, and fits my budget. In other words, the perfect car (for me).
- If used, it must be relatively low mileage and in excellent condition. My last used car purchase was a '71 Pinto in '74.
So who are the candidates? In no particular order, they are:
- Porsche Cayman: Either new or used. New would be tough within my budget, but not impossible. A used '13-'16 981 Cayman S (6-cyl) is what most of my friends suggest. A new one would depend on whether or not I can find a dealer that will sell at sticker and not add one of those maddening markups.
- New BMW M240i. I'm not crazy about some of what they've done with the interior, but the size and packaging is similar to my 128i that I have enjoyed for the last 12 years. Unfortunately not available with a stick, but the BMW auto is almost as good as a PDK.
- New BMW M2. At the very edge of affordability and I'm not wild about the front fascia, but oooohhhh the power! And it's available with manual or automatic.
- A previous generation M2. Less expensive and nicer looking. I would have to get over the whole "used car" phobia, though.
- A new Supra, now available with a manual.
- A friend's lightly used Z4M40i convertible. Hmmm... Do I want a convertible?
- Other suggestions are welcomed.
So there you have it. I am consoling myself on the low sales price by looking ahead.
Well, Lane, think of all the fun you will now have finding that 'just perfect car for you'.
The choices you state above all have some appealing features, but no car will check every box. But at least you don't have to go shopping for a soccer mum van...
If I can add another option - for that drop top urge - a used 987.1 or 987.2 Boxster meets a lot of your criteria. Just buy wisely for this model.
Have fun.
Lane:
Our 2007 Cayman S is my DD. It's the automatic so Anna can drive it.
At 60,000 miles it performs flawlessly and I maintain it judiciously. I had to have some repair to the A/C and I replaced the passenger side window guide myself. The headliner started to sag (an oft documented shortcoming) and was replaced. The interior paint chips if you stare at it.
It wakes up at about 4000 rpm and can really scoot.
All in all, it makes a great DD. I don't track it.
Just a synopsis of our experience.
I imagine a newer one with low mileage, whatever trans, might scratch your itch. I would stick with the S as that is where the fun is.
Danny has one as well, as you know.
I'm with Bob. Find a really nice Boxster with the optional hard top or, for that matter, a really decent 996 convertible with the optional hard top - the best of both worlds.
Al and Heidi Gallo have a STUNNING metallic moss green 996 convertible with fawn leather interior. That, with the hard top, is drop-down gorgeous and they found it for less than half of what your coupe went for. Those cars are still out there......
Since this will end up being my one car (excluding Pam's Outback) I will only consider used back as fas as '14 or '15. One car I accidentally left of was a C8 Corvette, although getting one within my budget could be challenging.
The last new car purchase I made was in 1994, unless my coupe coming from Greg count as a new car. Anyway, cars like the older M2 or Cayman S can be found in very nice low mikeage condition. Get a prepurchase inspection done and go for it. I say buy the one that makes you smile like an idiot.
Some really nice 50's and 60's cars ( with A/ C) can be had within your budget but that is a completely different ball of wax. With that said and knowing our affection for the track I would lean towards a low lime Boxster. @ Paul Mossberg has one and loves it ~
In the absence of a Speedster (which would be my first suggestion), I'm going to join the Cayman chorus. Buy the best one you can afford, hang onto it, and spiff it up with wheels/tires, springs, etc. as money/time allows. Get the 6-cyl, and get the manual trans.
It's a small enough car to place on the road in the mountains, the steering is razor sharp, and going fast is not a big effort. The cabin is big enough for me, when even a C8 feels a bit tight.
Working on them is not something I'm interested in, but that goes for any modern vehicle, so there's that.
I don't think I would ever be satisfied with any of the choices, however.
@Stan Galat posted:In the absence of a Speedster (which would be my first suggestion), I'm going to join the Cayman chorus. Buy the best one you can afford, hang onto it, and spiff it up with wheels/tires, springs, etc. as money/time allows. Get the 6-cyl, and get the manual trans.
It's a small enough car to place on the road in the mountains, the steering is razor sharp, and going fast is not a big effort. The cabin is big enough for me, when even a C8 feels a bit tight.
Working on them is not something I'm interested in, but that goes for any modern vehicle, so there's that.
I don't think I would ever be satisfied with any of the choices, however.
I'm with Stan and the Cayman Crew. One of the most nimble satisfying Porsche's to drive. Here was my DD turned Garage Queen. Amazing drive 
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I sat in my buddys 2020 Cayman GT and it was too cramped for me(big muscles):} sticking with 17 CS 991.2
@Stan Galat posted:In the absence of a Speedster (which would be my first suggestion), I'm going to join the Cayman chorus. Buy the best one you can afford, hang onto it, and spiff it up with wheels/tires, springs, etc. as money/time allows. Get the 6-cyl, and get the manual trans.
It's a small enough car to place on the road in the mountains, the steering is razor sharp, and going fast is not a big effort. The cabin is big enough for me, when even a C8 feels a bit tight.
Working on them is not something I'm interested in, but that goes for any modern vehicle, so there's that.
I don't think I would ever be satisfied with any of the choices, however.
Yeah, Lane. Get a Cayman R. I test drove one once, and should have bought it when I had the chance. I've never felt so much at one with a car as I did with that. Steering as tight as a nun's you know what, acceleration up the wahoo, handling like not much else.
That would be my choice, if this model wasn't prized - and priced - so highly. Being a 2008, it's still analogue enough to be fun.
Buying new, the GTS is the sweet spot.