I was surprised to see there was no reserve on the car. Why? Because the information and the questions asked made me feel like we were dealing with a lot of neophytes who had to be educated on the car and as such it penalized Lane in the end value received.
Sorry Lane for the lossed potential. And for those reasons, I won't bid on Bat. I feel it is an unrealistic market and if they have those kinds of forced rules.
I won't play in their sandbox.
Lane still think you should at least look at the Nissan 400z. It’s a lot of performance for $40k.
@IaM-Ray posted:I was surprised to see there was no reserve on the car. Why? Because the information and the questions asked made me feel like we were dealing with a lot of neophytes who had to be educated on the car and as such it penalized Lane in the end value received.
Sorry Lane for the lossed potential. And for those reasons, I won't bid on Bat. I feel it is an unrealistic market and if they have those kinds of forced rules.
I won't play in their sandbox.
There was a reserve, Ray. We dropped it quite a bit toward the end, but it was still there. The winning bidder came in just above it.
@550 Phil posted:Lane still think you should at least look at the Nissan 400z. It’s a lot of performance for $40k.
And it looks good, too. The reviews are pretty disappointing, however. I'll probably still look at one.
@Stan Galat posted:Buying new, the GTS is the sweet spot.
Absolutely agree, but new they're well over $100k. Not gonna happen. Used ones are much more reasonable, and that's what some of my buddies here are pushing me toward.
I just went over to the Porsche configurator.
Apparently, the 718 GTS (like everything else) has gone up a good solid chunk in the last year. A friend of mine bought a '22 and the base 4.0 GTS on the configurator (when I last checked a year ago) was starting quite a bit less than the $90,300 they're going for now. I speced one then with ceramic rotors and it was coming up well south of $100K.
No more, for sure.
My friend just took delivery of his new 718 Spyder in chalk. Quite an amazing car.
@Stan Galat posted:I just went over to the Porsche configurator.
Apparently, the 718 GTS (like everything else) has gone up a good solid chunk in the last year. A friend of mine bought a '22 and the base 4.0 GTS on the configurator (when I last checked a year ago) was starting quite a bit less than the $90,300 they're going for now. I speced one then with ceramic rotors and it was coming up well south of $100K.
No more, for sure.
PCCB for street use is horrendous. The Porsche PCCB's need a fair amount of heat to perform at their best and stop and go traffic won't give it to you. I don't know if other ceramics are this way but for Porsche, it matters. On a car bed for occasional track use it's a bit much. For track use you'd be better off with a set of ECB Red Stuff pads that you swap in when you're going to the track or use the ECB Yellow Stuff pads. Designed for street use but will perform remarkably well for "occasional" track use.
A LOT of guys/gals are just buying an "S" and adding a Cobb, or other appropriate tune, and boosting the hp closer to the GTS level without the added cost of the GTS.
Buy the car for what you'll use it for the most. Just like when the priest at our church wanted to build a new church that held 2K people. He wanted it that big because that's how many people came at Christmas and Easter even though the other 50 weeks per year only 400-500 showed up each Sunday. He got a church that held about 30% more than the average Sunday. The Chris-ters (Christmas-Easter folks) would just have to squeeze in a little. Lane can enjoy the occasional track day w/o PCCB's and still have a tremendous amount of fun.
"Buy the car for what you'll use it for the most."
Exactly. Unfortunately my "...what you'll use it for the most" is mostly driving in Charleston traffic. I really need to move to the mountains.
17 CS....420HP, added Cobb stage 1...guessing 480?..it unleashed the beast. Im maxxed on HP before I kill myself
@Lane Anderson posted:"Buy the car for what you'll use it for the most."
Exactly. Unfortunately my "...what you'll use it for the most" is mostly driving in Charleston traffic. I really need to move to the mountains.
A member on the 718 forum is walking away from the vehicle he ordered and it's for sale as of right now. It is on its way to Porsche Beaverton and it's a Cayman S, albeit a manual transmission. Not sure how that will relate to Charleston traffic: https://www.porschebeaverton.c...pe-wp0ab2a83ps268053
@Lane Anderson posted:"Buy the car for what you'll use it for the most."
Exactly. Unfortunately my "...what you'll use it for the most" is mostly driving in Charleston traffic. I really need to move to the mountains.
I feel your pain Lane. I often tell people owning a speedster (for me) is a lot like sailing. Before I set out on a drive, I need to plot my course. I review the weather, and potential traffic along the routes. My drives are timed to miss as much traffic as possible along said routes.
My friends w/ modern sports cars with automatic transmissions and climate control laugh. California does have some amazing drives......just getting to these drives requires some planning when you live amongst such a large population in a small area.
Nice car, Robert, but a bit more than I want to spend.
@Lane Anderson posted:Nice car, Robert, but a bit more than I want to spend.
This website will allow you to search Porsche dealers throughout the US:
Since we are spending Lane’s money.
If you don’t need raw speed, get a base 718 Boxster(Sublime handling). Especially with the smaller 18 inch wheels. If you need Speed, all roads lead to C8 Vette.
@Gordon Nichols posted:I'm with Bob. Find a really nice Boxster with the optional hard top or, for that matter, a really decent 996 convertible with the optional hard top - the best of both worlds.
There's no hardtop available for a 718 series Boxster. And a test fit would definitely be in order for prior iterations. I'm pretty certain Lane won't fit in a first gen Boxster.
Have you considered a nice Speedster replica 
@Lane Anderson posted:"Buy the car for what you'll use it for the most."
Exactly. Unfortunately my "...what you'll use it for the most" is mostly driving in Charleston traffic. I really need to move to the mountains.
Which is why maybe you should pause and wait for a minute. You still have the Bimmer.
And to every person who suggests an open car to Lane, he isn't buying one. He has skin issues and needs to stay OUT of the sun.
Besides, a Cayman is BETTER than a Boxster in every way: lighter, faster, and stiffer. Believe me, I've driven both. The Caymans all have a more raw driver's car edge to them.
Good luck with your search, Lane.
@Stan Galat posted:Buying new, the GTS is the sweet spot.
Maybe, but I'd have to have me a GT4 if I was going all-in.
@Alan Merklin posted:Makes me think WTH am I doing building the style of Outlaw speedster that has been rolling around in my head for years. Maybe, the Berrien chassis with Mendeola suspension, Neal brakes, fiberglass tonneau etc. will not ring loud and wide. Perhaps, I should reconfigure my avenue of thought by selling off the 2165 in favor of a 1600cc w/ dual Solex carbs, hanging bumpers, driving lights, overriders, side molding, padded dash - brow and a Nardi horn button :~(
Perhaps you should sell the project to someone who wants to build an outlaw performer, and go chase the $$$$ for a stocker that can be beat by my Mom(87) in her 4 cylinder 2003 Camry.
Make sure you do a plaid interior(vomit), they're all the rage with the kids these days.
Skin issues? Me too.
.
So, what was the question?
A nice coupe for Lane?
Something quick but not pedestrian?
Maybe a little retro character?
Snug, but enough room to be comfortable?
Mechanical, connected, but not too rough around the edges?
Something not every Tom, Dick, and Rufus is likely to have?
Nice sound, but nothing rowdy?
Cool, but in a McQueen way?
Why do I keep coming back to this?
I'd definitely have one, except the driver's windshield wiper lifts off at speed (around 3:09 in the video)
.
@DannyP posted:Perhaps you should sell the project to someone who wants to build an outlaw performer, and go chase the $$$$ for a stocker that can be beat by my Mom(87) in her 4 cylinder 2003 Camry.
Make sure you do a plaid interior(vomit), they're all the rage with the kids these days.
I'm building the Outlaw the way I have envisioned it for many years .......
Chip Foose was the culprit that started the "plaid fad" in the coupe's .
It will sell Alan to an educated buyer as the suspension alone is a cut above and will provide better handling.
Gawd I love that video, Mitch!!!!!
@Lane Anderson posted:Gawd I love that video, Mitch!!!!!
Yep. I've watched that video a number of time.
Just raw driving.
@IaM-Ray posted:It will sell Alan to an educated buyer as the suspension alone is a cut above and will provide better handling.
I agree.....but this buyer is not found on BaT. BaT is filled with emotional buyers, not necessarily knowledgeable buyers. Case in point, Teby's car. That car seemed to have all the BaT buyer's boxes checked, except a few: it's not a VMC, it's white and it didn't have photos of the car at the coast or at sunset.
Below are photos of all the cars that sold on BaT in the past year that fetched $60,000 or over; except one car which seemed to be a high-water mark for a VS. My takeaway from this research?
1. Only sell a VMC on BaT. Greg has built himself a great reputation that's well known across the US. The average buyer doesn't seem to be aware of Carey and Henry's reputation, as not many Beck/SE and Intermeccanica cars sell on BaT. And forget it if you have a CMC or Fiberfab.
2. If you don't have a VMC, install some black wheels and spring $1,000 for an amazing photographer to shoot your car.
3. Stay away from colorful cars and white.
4/8/22: VMC $61,000
5/18/22: VS $60,000 [NOTE: Black wheels]
7/25/22: VS $55,000; I included this one because it's pretty high for a VS. And it has black wheels
7/29/22: VMC $71,500
8/4/22: VMC $62,000
9/12/22: VMC $67,000
9/19/22: VMC $67,000
9/24/22: JPS $62,500. The big money seemed to come out in September. This JPS seemed to have instead in a photographer.
10/4/22: VMC $60,000
11/9/22: VMC $66,000
12/30/22: VS $60,000; black wheels
2/1/23: VMC $60,000
2/15/23: VMC $83,000
Clearly "When the top goes down the price goes up" has more than a kernel of truth.
@Kevin - Bay Area posted:I agree.....but this buyer is not found on BaT. BaT is filled with emotional buyers, not necessarily knowledgeable buyers. Case in point, Teby's car. That car seemed to have all the BaT buyer's boxes checked, except a few: it's not a VMC, it's white and it didn't have photos of the car at the coast or at sunset.
Below are photos of all the cars that sold on BaT in the past year that fetched $60,000 or over; except one car which seemed to be a high-water mark for a VS. My takeaway from this research?
1. Only sell a VMC on BaT. Greg has built himself a great reputation that's well known across the US. The average buyer doesn't seem to be aware of Carey and Henry's reputation, as not many Beck/SE and Intermeccanica cars sell on BaT. And forget it if you have a CMC or Fiberfab.
2. If you don't have a VMC, install some black wheels and spring $1,000 for an amazing photographer to shoot your car.
3. Stay away from colorful cars and white.
What an amazing market analysis, Kevin - really thorough, with references to bolster the arguments you make. Well done.
I've been casually watching, though not at all as closely as you. But it only took one or two Beck/IM auction failures to pick up on the trend - cars from Beck and IM are consistently undervalued on BaT.
The things I value: purpose-built frames, more powerful engines, non-original (but very beneficial) upgrades - things that objectively make a car "better" and more usable as an automobile - these things are not just undervalued, they detract from the value of a car sold on BaT.
BaT buyers really seem to like pan-based cars. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it's the subjective connection between VW and Porsche. Perhaps Troy has been correct all these years, that it's the ease of registration. I don't know. I just note that on BaT at least, pan cars in general (and VMC cars in particular) are really, really highly valued. I think the JPS and VS cars in your example probably sold for 2x the purchase price.
Production has been much slower out of VMC than it was out of VS. In a market where there are too many buyers chasing too few cars, that's gotta be good for pan-based cars from VS and JPS. Those cars are probably not going to bring >$60K money for a while, but most of them were purchased for around $25K- $30K.
I expect a return on a market investment and a loss on an object of affection. None of us bought these as investments. I'll never see mine as such.
If you want to sell an Intermeccanica, hook up with Henry himself. He will market it for you and knows a lot of potential buyers.
Maybe his new shop will feature used Intermeccanicas...?
@Bob: IM S6 posted:If you want to sell an Intermeccanica, hook up with Henry himself. He will market it for you and knows a lot of potential buyers.
Maybe his new shop will feature used Intermeccanicas...?
Agreed. His commission was pretty stiff when it was IM, but he always had buyers waiting in the wings.
@Kevin - Bay Area posted:I feel your pain Lane. I often tell people owning a speedster (for me) is a lot like sailing. Before I set out on a drive, I need to plot my course. I review the weather, and potential traffic along the routes. My drives are timed to miss as much traffic as possible along said routes.
My friends w/ modern sports cars with automatic transmissions and climate control laugh. California does have some amazing drives......just getting to these drives requires some planning when you live amongst such a large population in a small area.
This is not an issue in any part of flyover country. We just put up the door and go for a drive. The good roads might not be right outside the door (like they are in some other places - I'm looking at you, @Carlos G), but neither are we sitting in stop/go traffic for an hour and a half just to break free from gridlock.
Every time I go to a city with major traffic, I wonder how you guys do it. I'd tear the wheel off my car if that was a part of daily life. Like all animals, people were never meant to be stacked on top of each other like that - it's why so many of them get weird when they are.
There's not a lot of guys with Ferraris, etc., but I think you'd like it out here.
A loooong time ago (late 1990's), I visited the Caterpillar facility in/near Peoria and I must say, it's pretty country out there. I was driven down there from Chicago and the difference getting to Peoria was refreshing. I remember a big lake or river or something that was a showpiece. Straight roads, but nice country and the folks at Caterpillar were great. We returned to Chicago and I couldn't wait to get the heck outta there.
Main reason I keep my Spyder in Charlottesville. In 20 minutes I’m on great roads. In 30 minutes I’m on the Blueridge Parkway. Nothing but straight flat roads in Norfolk/VA Beach. If I ever get the Pre A Coupe I’m going to try to keep it in Norfolk. I think my wife will like it and it will be nice to use it for trips for lunch and local car shows. I’m going to Charlottesville when I retire and the Coupe will come with me. My back will likely have outgrown the Spyder by then.
In case anyone has not paid attention to the current cost to order a new VMC, using Greg’s website, the following options for a turnkey speedster will set you back $61k.
Add a retro radio, center exhaust, leather straps, stone guards, under dash e-brake, banjo wheel and beehives, and you approach $67k.
Inflation alone probably explains the price increase. Considering increased demand and the likelihood that costs will continue to rise during Greg’s ~24 month build cycle, I’m actually surprised the price Greg is asking hasn’t gone up more.
Maybe some BAT bidders who have decided they need a VMC parked in their garage have considered this?
Living in West Virginia, every single road is driving adventure, on one particular evening I did 35 miles of continues mountains and twisties never coming up on another car. That cost me a set and pads and cutting the vented rotors on our previous 328xi but it was an intense and memorial 50 minute BMW driving experience. Three different directions out of Elkins, WV is a 100 mile loop trip to return unless, you do a U turn :~)
@Gordon Nichols posted:A loooong time ago (late 1990's), I visited the Caterpillar facility in/near Peoria and I must say, it's pretty country out there. I was driven down there from Chicago and the difference getting to Peoria was refreshing. I remember a big lake or river or something that was a showpiece. Straight roads, but nice country and the folks at Caterpillar were great. We returned to Chicago and I couldn't wait to get the heck outta there.
It's the river - P-town is the River City, the minor league hockey team (probably moving out) is named the Rivermen. At Peoria, the Illinois River widens out into two big "lakes" (Upper Peoria Lake and Lower Peoria Lake), which have been the showpiece of the place since Marquette and Joliet decided it was a good spot for a fort.
Both lakes are filling in from agricultural erosion, and are mostly just mud-flats with a skim of water and a shipping channel down the edge of them now. It still looks nice, but nothing like it did 40 years ago when there were 100 sailboats out there every weekend.
I've talked about Cat and this town's relationship with Big Yellow, but we did get some good news this week (for once). The union and company came to a tentative agreement a couple of days ago on a contract dispute that looked 100% certain to end in a strike. It never materialized, which helps the psyche of the area more than you can imagine. It doesn't change the fundamentals, but everybody let out a collective sigh of relief when the reports came out. Membership still has to vote, so there's that.
And yeah, Chicago is a completely different world. The main difference is the steady (sleepy?) workmanlike approach of Peoria as opposed to the naked hustle of Chicago. Everybody up there has something in the works. It feels like every man, woman, and child is looking for an angle. Buying a vehicle there is terrifying.
The food is otherworldly good and you can find anything - absolutely anything - but you may sit on 90/94 for an hour and a half "just because" and you may get your side window smashed in because you have a phone holder somebody likes clipped to the vent of your car.
No thanks.
Lane, I put a deposit for you. You can thank me later
