Larger Oil Sump

I'm considering adding a larger sump to my 1776. Seems like a good and inexpensive adder. The big question is how difficult are they to install? Must the engine be pulled?

Naw, just bolts on from the bottom.

A pain to lay on your back to change out to a larger sump set up , also consider the additional sump size will decrease the rear ground clearance. It is about a two - three hour job to install mostly bolt up with the exception of tack welding the oil pick up extension tube to the stock one.
Some manufactures say to slide it over the stock one and hose clamp it in place.....not a great idea. It is important to avoid oil leaks by cleaning and sealing all contact surfaces.

Is there a way to replace the stud that holds the oil pickup tube?

The one oil drain plate stud on my car that is in iffy shape has a bolt on the inside.

I was told the case had to be cracked.

Seems like there would be a technique or tool for the job.

Well, it's SUPPOSED to be a stud holding the sump tube in place, with a nut holding the bracket down. It may just LOOK like a bolt, or it may, in fact, be a real bolt.

If I remember right, that's a 10mm bolt head (or nut head, depending on who put your engine together) holding the sump tube in. It's difficult to get at, but not impossible.

Buy a good quality 10mm wrench, preferably box one end and open the other, decide which end will work best on the bolt/nut you have (probably the open end), put it in a vise and then heat the hell out of the shaft to cherry red and bend that end at a 90 degree angle so you can get the wrench up inside the screen hole to turn the bolt/nut out.

If it is a stud, as it's supposed to be, then back off the inside nut so things are loose, double-nut the outside of the stud so the nuts lock together and then spin the stud out.

If it's really a bolt, then you'll have to use that wrench you just made and work it out a little at a time til it's free.

Like I said, not impossible, just time consuming - be patient.

gn

Some can go on with ease, while others can be a real bitch to install. My Gene Berg 3 quart sump was a REAL pain to put on, and the motor was out of the car. On the other hand, my first sump, a cheap 1 1/2 quart model, went on without a hitch...go figure.
Ron

I'd use the "Gordon" method. You'll have to sacrifice a wrench to the cause- but I've put two of these on, and if you hold your mouth just right you can do it in an afternoon. Getting the nut started is the hardest part. I'd recommend not losing it inside the crankcase...

Even if you lose the nut, where's it gonna go? Gravity will keep it on the bottom of the case (or onto the floor), the oil residue will keep it from moving around much, and you can retrieve it with a small pick-up magnet...

All you really need are teeny, tiny hands that bend backwards...

Of course, that 90 degree bent wrench proved invaluable for me.

gn

I'm thinking it's a nut on a stud not a bolt, I only briefly checked it out on the last oil change. Sounds like the 10mm box wrench bent 90 degrees is the best answer. I wonder if that particular stud is longer than the others?

Thanks for the reply - Michael

Gordon,

I meant don't actually "lose" the nut, not just drop/ retrieve it. It may stay on the bottom, but there was a point during the last one I did that I wasn't sure I was going to be able to find the dropped nut in the case- pretty scary for a minute.

Yup, it's the longest one of the bunch by about 1/2".

If you get a deep sump kit, they usually come with all new studs and one is a longer one, just for that purpose.

Thank you Gordon,

There are always details - 1/2 inch. I'm going to try it in about 1500 miles.

I think I got mine from SoCal Imports (don't know what thir current business name is) and it leaked, at first. I replaced the gasket with a somwehat thicker one, gooped up well with blue Permatex, and it now seems OK. At least now I know why the Berg guys plane the mating surfaces on their deep sumps so they're true.....

gn

As they say...you get what you pay for....

Whenever we do up a motor, we always replace that stud with a longer one, just in case a deep sump goes on it later. Too much fishing for nuts in the past . . . now we know better.

You can always tell when someone has done Chevys (distributor hold down bolt) or VWs (oil pump pick-up stud) by the bent wrenches in the tool box. There's also a special "c" shaped bend that you have to make in the 13mm box end wrenched make it easier to change the stock VW carb. I've got one of those too.

Also the guys who have the 10" long, 1/2" box end bent at 90 degrees about 1.5 inches from the end, and then another 90 degrees at the OTHER end of the shaft for doing Ford small block distributor clamp nuts.

Ah, the ever-resourceful mechanic. Home-built tools right up there with the Trabant hammer.

Wow now I'm really confused. This thread began telling me it is an easy job "just bolts on". Please explain how all the talk about studs and nuts (I know those words will most likely start a new thread but....) changes the "just bolts on" statement.
Troy

It's not that big of a deal. Find specs on the sumps you are considering, make sure it uses a stock bottom plate, get the thinnest sump(better ground clearance)you can. If you can't replace the one stud that holds the oil pickup with a longer one, just use the remaining 5 nuts/bolts to hold the sump in place, when you change your oil you can check and retighten nuts/bolts if necessary. If you have a low car and are worried about scraping the sump on the ground, use permatex #2 gasket sealer, this product stays pliable and is more likely to remain sealed if you scrape the sump. Make sure all gasket sealing surfaces are clean and oil free when you do assembly. Using a hose clamp to add extender to your oil pick up tube should not be an issue. Good Luck, have fun. By the way, I live close by, on the peninsula, send me an email if you want to talk.

Joel

Why do it at all? Maybe for a daily driver, but for Sunday drivers why?

I took mine off because I had an oil cooling problem on my speedster. The car would get too hot on the freeway or when the temperature was over 95.

In addition to removing the 1 1/2 quart sump I also removed the oil filter and installed 180 degree fan/oil cooler over the transmission. Stock sump plus cooler = 3 quarts of oil.

Now - my temperature is constant which indicates cooling is happening and warmup is faster. Drove to BugOrama on Labor Day and it was well over 100 - no problem. And the clearance problem is over. And I have higher oil pressure, 60 lbs on startup 30 to 45 warm, 20 at idle. I change my oil every 1500 to 2000 miles, I could go longer because my engine is young and I don't drive dusty roads. I love fussing with my car and changing oil is fun.

a larger oil sump will just prolong higher oil temps. People somehow think that adding more oil will help the cooling. It will just delay the inevitable. Your motor is cooling better because of the added cooler and fan.

Deep oil sumps will help you not loose oil pressure in heavy load turns, like in autocross situations. Also will lower oil temps slightly, but cause longer warm-ups, and allow longer time periods before oil break down. They will also reduce ground clearance.
Eddie