Anyone have any suggestions for latching the top? Either the guy who built this made it too tight, or it just isnt stretched enough...I ve let it sit in the sun to war up , but to no avail...any suggestions ?
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Anyone have any suggestions for latching the top? Either the guy who built this made it too tight, or it just isnt stretched enough...I ve let it sit in the sun to war up , but to no avail...any suggestions ?
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Try latching the windshield bow first. You can then stretch the back portion of the top to snap it on the speedster body
....Caution ...
I have seen a speedster windshield had so much excessive pressure pulling back on the windshield top frame that the windshield "pulled" away for the bottom windshield frame to body cowl area leaving a 1/4" space. An older shrunken or misfitted top will cause this .
....Caution ...
I have seen a speedster windshield had so much excessive pressure pulling back on the windshield top frame that the windshield "pulled" away for the bottom windshield frame to body cowl area leaving a 1/4" space. An older shrunken or misfitted top will cause this .
On my 78 IM with a vinyl top, I used to unsnap the two or three side snaps (behind the door jam), and leave the centre rear ones done up. Even then, it was always a tough pull to get the windshield header bar to fit over the windshield, and then to get the latches done up.
I think these tops are so rarely put up, they need a good stretch to get them to latch. Once latched, it was a good fit.
I think these tops are so rarely put up, they need a good stretch to get them to latch. Once latched, it was a good fit.
thanks Allen, and Robert for the advice.I think it has been so long that the top, if ever, has been up on it....I 'll try those things, and then take the heat gun to it next.And if doesnt work.I ll have a canvas top made
The latches on IM tops are adjustable...
Heat it with a blow dryer or a or a heat lamp, But be very very carful a little will go along way I use to Ulpholster for a living thats how we use to dewrinlke vinil seats when the sewers bo bo ed
It should work wonders for you But (PLEASE) dont let it get to hot or pat the top to much or you'll have a floppy top.
I,ve seen people make pregnet cussons. that way also. But does work well when done right. Have a cool wet cloth or sponge handy if you get nervious
It should work wonders for you But (PLEASE) dont let it get to hot or pat the top to much or you'll have a floppy top.
I,ve seen people make pregnet cussons. that way also. But does work well when done right. Have a cool wet cloth or sponge handy if you get nervious
Are I tops available for sale? if so how much and where?
Are IM tops available for sale, if so how much and where ?
Id like to see a pic or those latches, Thanks for telling me that
You also gave me another Idea It would be wise ,if he checks his bow kit to see if it has extra holes.I am not sure but I think the ones I sold from mine did that would give some adjustment.
You also gave me another Idea It would be wise ,if he checks his bow kit to see if it has extra holes.I am not sure but I think the ones I sold from mine did that would give some adjustment.
Arlin,
Take a close look at the latches that attach to the top of the windshield farm, my CMC latches have a screw adjustment to lengthen or shorten the latches to fit better. Also, the bottom of your top bows should each be attached to a bracket that is about 1" by 3" and about 1/4" thick. If installed correctly, the bracket will loosen the top when flipped one way and tighten it the other...if your bows/brackets are attached this way, then flip the bracket to loosen the bows, attach the latches to the top of the windshield, snap a few snaps on the back of the top, then flip the two brackets at the bottom of the bows to tighten the top. Clear?
Take a close look at the latches that attach to the top of the windshield farm, my CMC latches have a screw adjustment to lengthen or shorten the latches to fit better. Also, the bottom of your top bows should each be attached to a bracket that is about 1" by 3" and about 1/4" thick. If installed correctly, the bracket will loosen the top when flipped one way and tighten it the other...if your bows/brackets are attached this way, then flip the bracket to loosen the bows, attach the latches to the top of the windshield, snap a few snaps on the back of the top, then flip the two brackets at the bottom of the bows to tighten the top. Clear?
yes it does have the 2 outer latches that adjust..i have made several adjustments, but that isnt working for it either. The header bow that is made of fiberglass, needs to be "trained" into shape, if that is possible, to follow the curve of the windsheild. I dont believe that his top has ever been on, or at least not in a long long time. T he guy I got it from said he had it for 2 years and never had it on. Its too cold to play with it today, So I seeing about fitting soe polished cookie cutters on it. I will try all your suggestions when it warms up around here. In the ean time, a new 1776 and soe different wheels are in order.
The poor fit between the windshield frame and top bow is evident in your photos. Another owner of this site (Bill Drayer?) had a similar problem and I believe used a dremel or sander (?) to modify the shape of the top bow to fit better, you will have to remove the top material from the bow to modify it and it is probably glued on.
Arlin: Fitting these bars can be a pain in the a**. But with a little time can be made to fit. You will however have to unglue or take the top material from it so you can work with it. It should fit down over the w-shield frame at such an angle that the latches can swing in to grab the frame. Mine didn't so I started with strips of paper and inch or two wide about 8 inches long and set the header over them on the w/shield frame. Sort of like feeler gauges. I ran the strips across the frame to find the high(tight) spots,marked them and started grinding away. This is a dusty job so have a shop-vac and a air hose available if you can. At one point I had to use my drill press with a 3/4 bit to "nibble" across the bar to remove material that was really keeping the bar from fitting down on the w/shield frame. After getting the bar to sit half decent on the w/shield frame, I still had to grind away some material where the latches are mounted so the catch could swing into grab the frame. My latches are now flush or "frenched" into the barheader.
Whew! It was almost as much a job describing it as doing it!
Good luck
BD
Whew! It was almost as much a job describing it as doing it!
Good luck
BD
here is the latch....Sounds like I got some work to do. Thanks again for the advice from everyone. I ll let you know how its coming along
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Arlin,
Here's some ideas, some may apply, some may not.
1. The top has a fold into that front bow. If there is too much material folded & glued into the bow it will be hard to make it fit the windshield frame. Unfortunately fixing this means pulling out canvas (you have canvas?) and it'll be encrusted with 3M glue and almost impossible to get the glue off and then refolded without a mess. You can use a glue remover like "OOPs" in a well ventalated area and clean this folded area. Then refold and possibly trim in a shorter fold and then glue.
2. Do the above with a new bow with the turnbuckle clips from VS or JPS.
3. Buy a new top and do 1 & 2, or have JPS/VS install the bow. Best choice!
Alternative with what you have-. Get the canvas wet at a car wash, loosen the turnbuckles all the way out and snap them in first (takes 2 people) have your helper hold the snaps in place while you use some rubberized grips to pull all the snaps into place and snap in. Use your top levers to pop the angle up. Set it to dry a day and then do it over with the turnbuckles in 2-3 screws, repeat until you've stretched the canvas so that you can put on your top the normal way. which is:
snap the two snaps that hold your front bow to the windshield, pick 2 snaps around the edge on either side in back and snap. Get in the car, push (pull) the front bow into place as much as practical, your turnbuckles should be at or near optimal settings, click them in... many times they will just hold there without you snapping them closed. Get out and finish the snaps.... get in, snap the turnbuckles.... if there appears to be some play left, then unsnap and tighten each side a turn or two equally, then snap them in. Raise yout levers to give top tension.
As far as floppy tops........ if it's canvas.... wait till a good hot day..... soak your top installed and let it dry in the hot sun. If you find loose areas due to uneven shrinkage, soak them and do the hair dryer thing on the affected areas.
As far as tops flopping loose from side windows? Common thing. First look at how much better your side curtains work if they are not inserted all the way down, I think some of the patterns they have used for the side curtains put the pins too high and so the top of the curtain canvas doesn't fit into the top "sheath" (inside/outside flaps)quite as good as it should. An easy fix? Find some tubing that fits over your pins. Cut the 1/4" of tubing and slide onto the pin so that it makes the curtains sit higher without losing their seal at the body (bottom) side.
Last fix, which I am doing this winter. Have a top shop sew in Velcro strips on the inside of each side panel at the top, two 1" ones front and back. Have matching pieces sewn to the INSIDE flap of the side curtain sheath. This way it will un"snap/seal" to the curtain as you open the door and then automatically seal upon closing. The best part? It doesn't show from the outside as the seal is between the window panel and the inner flap. The clear tubing is short and doesn't take away from appearance..... and now you can hit the freeways in that quartering wind without having the top pull to the edge of the door panel.
How do I know? I broke a bow once, and had to DIY and learn what works, No expert.... just know what worked for me.
Jim
Here's some ideas, some may apply, some may not.
1. The top has a fold into that front bow. If there is too much material folded & glued into the bow it will be hard to make it fit the windshield frame. Unfortunately fixing this means pulling out canvas (you have canvas?) and it'll be encrusted with 3M glue and almost impossible to get the glue off and then refolded without a mess. You can use a glue remover like "OOPs" in a well ventalated area and clean this folded area. Then refold and possibly trim in a shorter fold and then glue.
2. Do the above with a new bow with the turnbuckle clips from VS or JPS.
3. Buy a new top and do 1 & 2, or have JPS/VS install the bow. Best choice!
Alternative with what you have-. Get the canvas wet at a car wash, loosen the turnbuckles all the way out and snap them in first (takes 2 people) have your helper hold the snaps in place while you use some rubberized grips to pull all the snaps into place and snap in. Use your top levers to pop the angle up. Set it to dry a day and then do it over with the turnbuckles in 2-3 screws, repeat until you've stretched the canvas so that you can put on your top the normal way. which is:
snap the two snaps that hold your front bow to the windshield, pick 2 snaps around the edge on either side in back and snap. Get in the car, push (pull) the front bow into place as much as practical, your turnbuckles should be at or near optimal settings, click them in... many times they will just hold there without you snapping them closed. Get out and finish the snaps.... get in, snap the turnbuckles.... if there appears to be some play left, then unsnap and tighten each side a turn or two equally, then snap them in. Raise yout levers to give top tension.
As far as floppy tops........ if it's canvas.... wait till a good hot day..... soak your top installed and let it dry in the hot sun. If you find loose areas due to uneven shrinkage, soak them and do the hair dryer thing on the affected areas.
As far as tops flopping loose from side windows? Common thing. First look at how much better your side curtains work if they are not inserted all the way down, I think some of the patterns they have used for the side curtains put the pins too high and so the top of the curtain canvas doesn't fit into the top "sheath" (inside/outside flaps)quite as good as it should. An easy fix? Find some tubing that fits over your pins. Cut the 1/4" of tubing and slide onto the pin so that it makes the curtains sit higher without losing their seal at the body (bottom) side.
Last fix, which I am doing this winter. Have a top shop sew in Velcro strips on the inside of each side panel at the top, two 1" ones front and back. Have matching pieces sewn to the INSIDE flap of the side curtain sheath. This way it will un"snap/seal" to the curtain as you open the door and then automatically seal upon closing. The best part? It doesn't show from the outside as the seal is between the window panel and the inner flap. The clear tubing is short and doesn't take away from appearance..... and now you can hit the freeways in that quartering wind without having the top pull to the edge of the door panel.
How do I know? I broke a bow once, and had to DIY and learn what works, No expert.... just know what worked for me.
Jim
While we
They don't turn? You latches look like all of them are you sure they don't turn? Sorry if this is a dumb question but it wasn't clear in the posts.
Yes they turn, and I have turned them all the way in , so the top is not adjusted correctly, I m going to need to do soe bow work, and reglue it after that process is done. I dont believe that the guy who put it together did it corrrectly....I ll fix it, its just gonna take some tinkering. And possibly a new top
Stan thanks for the great post. I'm going to copy it and go to work this winter. One question, did you have to take the top off the car to do these modifications? If so was it difficult? Thanks alot Eddie
Eddie,
Yep, you've got to take the top off- I marked what I wanted with chalk before removing the top from the car, and then the canvas from the frame. It's really easy- two bolts and you're there. Good luck. I'll try to post some pictures soon.
Yep, you've got to take the top off- I marked what I wanted with chalk before removing the top from the car, and then the canvas from the frame. It's really easy- two bolts and you're there. Good luck. I'll try to post some pictures soon.
Bruce
My CMC has a 'dog leg' thing on one of the top bows. The kick up'able part of the dog leg goes to the rear of the car. Appears backwards to the way I would expect it to operate. As it is, it can't work, top is too tight and if it did the rear of the top would go up and to the rear further. Would seem that if the dog leg was associated with the center bow (front) it would raise the portion a bit & tighten the top. Think some old TR's were that way.
Bottom line is, I need to replace the top. It leaks through the sewn portion and candle wax will only do so much. If my bows are backwards, I could corrct that, eliminate buying new bows, and end up with at least a semi high bow top (more beanie room).
Am I correct in my assumption that the dog leg goes with the front bow??
Tks...Bill
My CMC has a 'dog leg' thing on one of the top bows. The kick up'able part of the dog leg goes to the rear of the car. Appears backwards to the way I would expect it to operate. As it is, it can't work, top is too tight and if it did the rear of the top would go up and to the rear further. Would seem that if the dog leg was associated with the center bow (front) it would raise the portion a bit & tighten the top. Think some old TR's were that way.
Bottom line is, I need to replace the top. It leaks through the sewn portion and candle wax will only do so much. If my bows are backwards, I could corrct that, eliminate buying new bows, and end up with at least a semi high bow top (more beanie room).
Am I correct in my assumption that the dog leg goes with the front bow??
Tks...Bill
Bill
The adjustable bow on my VS is the rear bow. You have to remove it to snake it thru the pouch sewn into the inside of the top when replacing.
ed
The adjustable bow on my VS is the rear bow. You have to remove it to snake it thru the pouch sewn into the inside of the top when replacing.
ed
Thanks Stan, I could use some good pics. Eddie
Ed B,
My top has never quite fit correctly at the seam above the rear window and I now believe it is because I never installed the dogleg bracket correctly. I recently saw another Vintage with the dogleg installed correctly but can't recall how it looked. When you raise your top do you clip and snap everything and then flip the bracket at the bottom of the bows to tighten everything up? If so, would appreciate if you could post some photos of this setup, the manual was not very clear on this part of the installation.
My top has never quite fit correctly at the seam above the rear window and I now believe it is because I never installed the dogleg bracket correctly. I recently saw another Vintage with the dogleg installed correctly but can't recall how it looked. When you raise your top do you clip and snap everything and then flip the bracket at the bottom of the bows to tighten everything up? If so, would appreciate if you could post some photos of this setup, the manual was not very clear on this part of the installation.
Ed... AH HAA! so is it right after all. Could cheer for some pics too. The current top fits fine, but there is no way I can flip the dog leg without making a rather large hole in the top. As I said the current one is overdue for replacement and would like to get it right as opposed to the way the PO installed it.
Thks
Bill
Thks
Bill
Hey,
This is a great thread, I've picked up several good tips for something we all seem to experience. Looks like this winter promises
to have some quality garage time. Nothing on the tube so what else is better to spend our time on!
Bruce
This is a great thread, I've picked up several good tips for something we all seem to experience. Looks like this winter promises
to have some quality garage time. Nothing on the tube so what else is better to spend our time on!
Bruce
OK guys, I'll try to take a couple of shots tonite.
ed
ed
You can also check out page 92&93 of the Circa 1984 CMC manual in the online library above. Page 93 shows the bracket for the bows. I latch down my header bar to the windshield and then flip up the levers.
BD
BD
Once again thanks everyone who responded with all the great advice. I too shall be tearing into the top this winter....perhaps a new canvas one is in order......reguardless, its gonna get worked, and now with soe knowledge of what to expect, and what to try..Thanks...................
Here's the pix of the bow arrangement . Shot from the driver's seat looking toward the passenger side.
ed
ed
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This has been one terrific thread!
I have an original CMC top that I've never installed - vinyl and kinda cheap looking - and would like to upgrade to a fabric style. Will either the VS, IM or JPS tops fit a CMC? Has anyone tried this and are the necessary mods the same as on this thread? I would expect to use the bows that came in the kit from CMC, but I never got the header that goes along the windshield, so I'll have to get one of those, too (Kirk has them for sale on his web site - anyone got an extra one kicking around?) Love these Winter projects, but first I need to get heat in the garage!!
Gordon
I have an original CMC top that I've never installed - vinyl and kinda cheap looking - and would like to upgrade to a fabric style. Will either the VS, IM or JPS tops fit a CMC? Has anyone tried this and are the necessary mods the same as on this thread? I would expect to use the bows that came in the kit from CMC, but I never got the header that goes along the windshield, so I'll have to get one of those, too (Kirk has them for sale on his web site - anyone got an extra one kicking around?) Love these Winter projects, but first I need to get heat in the garage!!
Gordon
ED
Thank a bunch for the pics. Will check mine tonight. From memory, it looks like your dog legged bow pivots father forward on the arm than mine. But..been wrong before....lotsa times.
Thanks again
Bill
Thank a bunch for the pics. Will check mine tonight. From memory, it looks like your dog legged bow pivots father forward on the arm than mine. But..been wrong before....lotsa times.
Thanks again
Bill
Stan, how did you seal around the front hood hinges? I used foam weather stripping, but after awhile it starts to leave a gap again. Eddie
Eddie,
That's one of the future projects- its a much lower priority to me because the trunk area is pretty well sealed, so the infiltration through the holes is minor compared to the area where the pan meets the sub-frame of the car behind the front seats. JPS had to shim the back of the car up, and there was quite a gap (strong enough, but really leaky). I'm working on the back of the car right now- Installing new (1-3/8")heat exchangers, working on the tin, etc. I'll get the pictures ASAP.
That's one of the future projects- its a much lower priority to me because the trunk area is pretty well sealed, so the infiltration through the holes is minor compared to the area where the pan meets the sub-frame of the car behind the front seats. JPS had to shim the back of the car up, and there was quite a gap (strong enough, but really leaky). I'm working on the back of the car right now- Installing new (1-3/8")heat exchangers, working on the tin, etc. I'll get the pictures ASAP.
Thanks Stan, good luck. Eddie
Eddie,
I've thought about those hood hinges too. I am wondering if Bug or 356 Bumper bracket rubber might be close to the fit. Close enough to make a selective height slice to fit and then glue back for a near "made for it fit" That or check the Street Rod sources to see what they are using for both hood hinge and nerf bar rubber and then adapt. Let me know if you find something before I do, I'll do the same.
Jim
I've thought about those hood hinges too. I am wondering if Bug or 356 Bumper bracket rubber might be close to the fit. Close enough to make a selective height slice to fit and then glue back for a near "made for it fit" That or check the Street Rod sources to see what they are using for both hood hinge and nerf bar rubber and then adapt. Let me know if you find something before I do, I'll do the same.
Jim
Ed B,
Thanks for the photos. The holes in my bracket are much farther apart than yours and it won't turn like yours. Now if I could only remember back 15 years ago if I drilled the holes or if it came that way from CMC :>)
Thanks for the photos. The holes in my bracket are much farther apart than yours and it won't turn like yours. Now if I could only remember back 15 years ago if I drilled the holes or if it came that way from CMC :>)
Bruce,
Maybe that's the difference between hi-bow and lo-bow tops?
I guess mine is a lo-bow.
ed
Maybe that's the difference between hi-bow and lo-bow tops?
I guess mine is a lo-bow.
ed