Leaking axle at backing plate

Al- Are you using the same axles, tubes, backing plates and bearing retainers that were in the car originally?

Al Gallo posted:

Just installed a new transmission and changed over the axles etc.  Engine back in , new rear brakes , new seals and all that stuff.  Bleed and adjust brakes, check.  Time to fill up the tranny ,  put it on the floor to torque the axle nuts and I should be about done.

Hold on cowboy.  there's a small drip under the right rear backing plate for the brakes.  I thought this was going too smoothly.  

Take everything apart to see if I pinched the big "O" ring or some such stupid thing. Of course we now have more tranny juice and brake fluid to catch and clean up everywhere.  Everything looked fine when disassembled.  I replace the gaskets and "O" ring and add some hi-temp silicone  , for good measure. Top off tranny juice. Same result....slow ooze that appears where the backing plate and the axle meet. 

Will someone please tell me that after I top off the trans., bleed the brakes , put it on the floor and crank the axle nuts to 217 ft. lbs. , the fargin leak will stop? 

Has this happened to anyone else?

This site shows two O rings....small and large. You mention only the large, Al.

http://www.volksworld.com/tech...al-replacement-10560

Yeah, Yoda , I re-used all that stuff and re-assembled the backing plates with one gasket, the way they came apart.

David, I took the new and old trans. to a friend with tools and lots more know how than I have.  He did most of the work with the axles and tubes and  I think he did use a large hammer at one point.  There was also some screwing around with shims to take out some "slop" at the diff. end. Glad I had the help. 

I did the backing plate end, and it seems that I've screwed the pooch, as it were.  So I guess I'll be doing this sh!tty job once more.  Thanks for the link , David,  that stuff will help. And i did replace both o rings but used 1 gasket on the bearing retainer. Were they supposed to stack up on that retainer where it mates to the axle tube? It looks as if the only seal between the backing plate and the axle tube is the large o ring.  

Anything worth doing , is worth doing twice....i guess

Hey, I've got leaky axles.  Some of our brothers and sisters would love to have my silly  problems.  

I had a axle seal that for the life of me would not stop leaking so....                                      I did the "bad deed" ......Red RTV and it stopped :~)

Where did you put the RTV?  I have had one with a small leak for ever, and have tried to fix it several times.

Yeah.  Ditto what Lane said.  I have to roll this thing around before the snow flies.  You have my number.  Whatever it takes...I can fix it in the Spring.            madness

AL, man am I sorry to hear this. If there is anything that pisses me off more than having to do a shytty job it is having to do it over all again.  Such is the curse of the shade tree mechanic.  Anyway, I really wish I could help, but I have no real experience in this section of the car.  O-ring grease is a must.  Also, there are critical dimensions to the cavity into which an O-ring must get squeezed.  Can't be too tight or too loose, obviously.  Are you sure where the ooze is originating from?  That is, the joint between two surfaces?  Only reason I say is that my car was delivered with a gas leak and an oil leak, and I had  a devil of a time figuring out WTF.  In both cases, the root cause was a crack in metal. One case, the carb body aluminum casting (brand new) was cracked.  In second case, the oil sender unit hole in the case was drilled a little off center, and so was too close to the edge of the case casting, and cracked when the sending unit (pipe thread) was tightened. Carb was replaced warranty, and the case crack was cleaned with a file and brake cleaner, and stuffed with JB Weld.  Again, nothing like where you are working, but **** really does happen, and a crack in the goods here might be possible -- although very unlikely, I bet.  I know, that was no help at all. Do whatever Alan says.

Thin coat on both sides of the paper gasket

Oh, the gasket.  Done that, and it's not leaking.  I suspect that the seal is leaking as I've noticed a slight pull toward the side that I've had no problems with on braking.  The adjusters on the problematic side are shines again, so I may have to go back in.

Al, be sure to keep us up to date on your tribulations.  Curious minds need to know. Remember: O-rings are good, gaskets are good, smakum puckey applied to either is better.

Like I said, anything worth doing is worth doing twice.  This job is a messy PIA but I got 'er figgerd out.  (I hope)

There is an OUTER SPACER on the rear axle assembly that the OIL SEAL rubber sealing area rides on, mind you the seal rides on the very edge of the spacer. Sometimes these OUTER SPACERS have a sharp edge on one side and a slightly beveled edge on the other. If the beveled edge is installed facing out, away from the bearing there may not be enough surface area for the OIL SEAL to ride on and properly do it's job, causing a slight leak. You can turn the OUTER SPACER around and see if the sharp edge provides enough surface area for proper sealing.  Another way to try to cure the leak problem is to get a set of slightly WIDER OUTER SPACERS which provide more surface area for the OIL SEAL to ride on which should eliminate the leak. Measure your existing parts and see if slightly WIDER OUTER SPACERS are still available. I think I got some from CB Performance, but that was probably 10 or 15 years ago. Keep in mind, that all the parts still need to fit under the bearing retaining cover. Good Luck, Have Fun.

The outer spacers are very sensetive to impact damage. (hammer)  Any minor  scratch or ding on the surface will allow oil to pass as the seal turns on the surface. Inspect them closely and replace them if they are suspect.  CiP1 carries them.  Inspect new units upon arrival.  

I have replaced my right rear axles seals 5 times 3 different mechanics. Film at eleven.

I have heard the quality (i.e. grade and thickness) of the paper gaskets are not what they used to be. There must still be some true OEM gaskets out there.

Remember that the original OEM paper gaskets from VW were just that - really paper thin (fragile, too).  If you're expecting that something from someone's New Old Stock VW bin will be thicker or better, they're probably not.  The original mating surfaces were machined really flat, true and dressed (semi-polished) by the manufacturing process.  It didn't take much between the surfaces to seal them.  But that was 50-60 years ago and there's been a little wear and tear since then.  Hell, even the engine case was designed with no casketing material between the case halves - Try to find a case anywhere that is still that true!  That's why some West coast machine shops have the means to o-ring the case half mating surfaces - That's way better than using RTV!

I've found that a lot of metal surface ills can be easily cured with the right (usually, very small) amount of RTV.  Yes, being partly German I can fully understand that the designers never felt the need for any sort of gasket enhancer, but they're all long dead and it's 70 years later (at least ) and they're not gonna care anymore.  Even German engineers are practical.

VW s leak because it was British engineers that rebuilt the factory and restarted production. The Lord of Darkness was present. 

Axle tube blues!   I am no expert but have done many over the years. In the past several years I found that the cheap seal kits made across the rice field and elsewhere are usually the problem. It's not the o-ring, thin paper gaskets, but the seal itself. The inside of the seal lip is not a clean cut or lip. There's like a residual of material from the mode. That's why I only use German seals, or a Saco kit.

if you take it apart again buy a quaity seal kit. 

I can send you one.

also if you are running aftermarket disc brakes and have a alum retainer/caliper bracket I also found them not to be true or the bearing recess is to deep.

Gordon Nichols posted:

...I've found that a lot of metal surface ills can be easily cured with the right (usually, very small) amount of RTV.  Yes, being partly German I can fully understand that the designers never felt the need for any sort of gasket enhancer, but they're all long dead and it's 70 years later (at least ) and they're not gonna care anymore.  Even German engineers are practical...

I got an '09 MINI Cooper a few years ago. (Despite all the hype about 'British motoring tradition', it's a BMW product.)

After a few months of smelling burning oil while driving, I discovered that they're famous for leaking oil pan gaskets. I took it to the dealer under warranty and they installed the accepted factory fix. In the honored tradition of old world craftsmanship, they replaced the original gasket with a 'liquid gasket'.

It's 2016 folks. Hans and Fritz don't work there anymore.

It may be a BMW product but it still has a Lucas stank on it.

Ooch, Dat Hans und Fritz.

Und ven dey ver really schmall, dey had der own Funny Page!

My granmudder used to read it to ust!

Yah, und schmart are the kids! Mit dem Motor in back ist best:

We are a strange bunch on here, aren't we?

Tru dat

Al, I don't use any sealer on the paper gaskets. One goes behind the backing plate and one on the outside. They don't fit particularly well these days, and can rip quite easily. The holes aren't cut big enough to go around the bearing. Any burrs on any surface that either O-ring rides in will cause a leak. The spacer only goes on one way, and everything has to be very clean. Take your time.

Tighten it snug, then put it on the ground. Torque it using wheel chocks, do not apply the brakes to lock the wheels.

Just curious, Danny. Why not use the brakes to lock the wheels ?

On discs it's not a problem, the calipers float. Drums MAY prevent the drum from seating all the way when torqueing. Probably not, but why take the chance? A simple wheel chock will prevent the car from moving when torque is applied.

Pretty sure I read this on the Samba, and I think it was from one of the more experienced members.