Let's Play: WTF??

PS: I heard at the party that nothing good ever comes from racing.  Haha.  I suppose there is wisdom there.  Now I know better. Also, I suppose I am a bit miffed that there  was all this whoo-ha leading up to Carlisle about all the folks we were going to get to run the Auto-X this year.  And I was the only Speedster.  All the other stout fellows wimped out.  Just me and three MGs.  But maybe all was not lost as the records I saw had me first in class.

I believe that YOU, sir, have a going-south Pertronix module (or whatever that skinflint at JPS put in there).  That would explain the weird tach readings, the mis-firing under load and a few other things you have not yet mentioned.

Pertronix modules are particularly susceptible to high heat conditions accompanied by higher RPM, making the little system work harder that it might like and frying a couple of op-amps in the circuit (that's thrown in for you EE's).  When they go, they don't necessarily crap out at the same time so you get a period of sub-,marginal performance.  sound familiar?

I know it'll cost you a "Ulysses S. Grant" for a new one, just skip a couple of "Lump Crab Cake" nights and you're there......

Oh, and congrats for the 1'ST.  A well-deserved accolade, for sure.  Next time, wear earphones and have something good by Sting (his so-called, "jazz period" would be apropos) playing in your head - makes you a lot smoother in the transitions.....  Jus' saying'.........

Something tells me Gordon is correct, and that Kelly will come nowhere close to my 20-something page thread length record.

Going to go ahead and give Gordon a +1 for the proper use of skinflint.

Got it!

Next time you do an autocross, have THIS playing in your head.....Yes, it's Sting at his best, but perfect rhythm for heel and toeing in 2nd gear and lasts about as long as a decent autocross set.  Comes from a terrific album you should have on your phone, too;  "The Dream of the Blue turtles":

BTW:  My full name is Gordon Sumner Nichols.  There was another Sumner guy from Massachusetts who made it to the Senate back during the Civil war and became famous for his orations (Charles), but even more interestingly, a year after I was born, along came an Englishman called Gordon Sumner, commonly known as "Sting".

We're a rare and weird bunch.........

"We're a rare and weird bunch........."

I won't dispute that. 

My money's always on ignition, and I think Gordon may be right on the money.

Shortly after I started up the new motor, I went out and jumped on it. There was a loud bang, and all of the sudden it was missing horribly. I of course assumed it was the one-of-a-kind converted Black Box, but I had two done (just because I'm me) so I swapped it out. The problem persisted. Since I have two coils, I determined they couldn't BOTH be bad, which left me the pick-up module.

I took the cap off the distributor, and found that the mounting screw for the Pertronix had loosened up, and the pick-up was bouncing around pretty much wild and free. I tightened it back down (with some leak-lock), and Bob's your uncle.

Spare ignition stuff is always a nice idea. Points are pretty cheap. A set to check you're module might be worth it.

Stan, that "Bob's your uncle" thing belongs over on Barry's post of forgotten words and sayings. Personally i never knew about an uncle Bob.

Rich, you gonna' go ahead and order an IM6, and get this over with, or what?

Resistance is futile.

My hope is "uncle Bob" will give me a ride someday. Currently I'm still in love.

How does uncle Bob feel?

Uncle Bob has this weird thing for small animals.  We don't invite Uncle Bob to the house anymore.

I wondered why my ears were burning...

Kelly,

I know it's obvious...but the cheap way to figure out if your Pertronix module is failing...take it out, drop in a set of points...and see how she runs.

Everybody I know that runs a Pertronix keeps a condenser and points set in the tool bag.

I don't even HAVE a Pertronics and I STILL carry a set of VW points and condenser in my tool bag.

Is that OCD or What??

Given away 1-1/2 sets so far to others who needed it.

Someday I'll spring for another Magna-Spark module as a spare, but for now.......

So, Stan......   Am I inferring that you drive that dual ignition with a single firing signal from a single disti module and the Black Box sets up the two firing pulses for the dual coils?  If so, is the delay of the second coil signal programmable (kinda like rotating the disti in the mounting bracket)?

Sounds pretty cool, and I think I remember you saying you did not go crank-fire on this set up - why?  Just saw a VW engine with crank fire control and individual (Ford) coil packs on the single plugs and that got me wondering about how you did it.

gn

OK, I have some ideas here.  Dropping in a set of old fashioned points is interesting, but I am not sure I want to go backwards in the technology Dept.  As an act along they way towards diagnostics?, well perhaps.  Certainly, having a spare set in the little black canvas tool bag would be wise. I'll look for the loose screw thing, as I have heard about this from many sources previously.  I'd be inclined to go for a new Petronix module and blue coil also, and see what that brings.

It sounds like you all believe that the tach is not the culprit here, as it is just responding to bad signals from the dizzy, right??

And so, what's the consensus about going up another plateau on the technology scale?  My thought was a crank-fire system and electronic firing system.  I'd not be averse to such a thing, as being able to fool with the advance curve sounds intriguing.  What other concepts are useful here?  PS: I do not think I'm up for a dual plug lash-up, so Stan the Man from Stanistan can sit back down.

As to my Uncle Bob, I had one (not a real Uncle, but so-called, a good friend of parents) after which I am named (Robert), along with my real uncle, whose name was Kelly.  ... but you dasn't call me "Bob".  

Kelly, that's correct. I was not suggesting you step backwards.

Throwing points/condenser back in was just a diagnostic step.

If the issue goes away, you can be pretty sure it's the Pertronix module.

Well, I'm an Uncle Bob, and proud of it!

Rather than hijack Kelly's thread, I just responded to your questions over on my thread, Gordon. I hope you don't mind.

Kelly,

Crank-fire is the way to go, unless you've got a compelling reason not to (enamored with old-school looks, worried about an apocalyptic EMP, don't like the idea of programming your own ignition map, etc.). It's not short money, unless you are willing to solder up your own Mega-Jolt board, and source some EDIS stuff from a salvage yard-- but it is dead-nuts reliable and gives perfect timing in any circumstance. It's also expandable to allow inputs for temperature, etc. It's pretty darned cool, and Danny Pip is the man to talk to about this.

BTW: My "points suggestion" above was as a $10 diagnostic tool, not as a permanent solution.

Kelly, I'm with the boys on this. Either get another Pertronix or swap points and condenser in as a diagnosis.

RE: Crankfire. I am obviously a big proponent. It has been dead nuts reliable since 2008, and I've run it for at least 25,000 miles since then. ZERO maintenance. I swapped plugs once or twice, but I really don't think it was necessary.

EDIS module, TPS, VR sensor, and plug wires are all vintage 1990 out of a junkyard. I did buy a new Accel coilpack. The old Ford one worked fine, but I wanted it to look newer. I have a spare of all the above in the front trunk, just in case.

The why of crankfire: accuracy of 1/10th of one degree per revolution of the motor. Every single time, no matter what speed. 50,000 volt spark, to every plug, every time, no coil saturation with high rpm. EDIS is good to 9000 rpm or so, way above anything we require.

For me, it was the only way to get good, reliable spark and retain the 911 cooling system. The only dizzy that fits is an 009 or the like. Pertronix and Mallory won't fit, nor would Stan's new 8-port cap.

Kelly, get in touch if you want to take the plunge.

I'm seriously contemplating running twin plug now. Jake offered to do my heads back 6 or 7 years ago, but I didn't want to take my perfectly good engine apart. But now, with almost 40K on it, it may be time.

Do it.

Doitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoit.

Another vote for crank fired.

I have an EDIS unit on my engine, but I can't comment on how it runs yet.

Ron: Rock, solid idle. Pulls well from idle through transition to mains. Handles low rpm/wide open throttle, no stuttering and stumbling. You have EFI, but easily fires through bloody rich carb mixtures. Cruises all day long at 3-4000. Zips right up to 6500 redline or higher with no complaint.

The bottom line, carbs with crankfire runs like EFI.

Danny- ^^^^^What Stan said^^^^ It's time!

Ok, will do, over the winter. Should be child's play compared to the transmission.

You'll be my new hero.

Hey, Danny, "while you're in there...": might as well put a few more cams in there too.

It's only right, you know.

Maybe even a couple more cylinders?

A spyder with a hot flat 6 would be such a dynomite combo!  

Six is too heavy. Then you have 11 quarts of oil and a dry sump tank.

Optimize the 4 cylinder and keep it light is my thinking.

Al, you asked about valves: 44 x 37, 040 castings, much modified by welding.

Agreed.  A flat six would be too heavy for a Spyder.  A nice four banger can produce sufficient horsepower to move it along just nicely, as they say. And in a very civil manner, too. 

Now, a six in a Speedster is a different thing...that's just common sense.

But the sound, Danny, the sound.

Idunno, this looks really fast ands sounds amazing.  

Fast forward to 6:20 on the video 

Yeah, that does sound pretty incredible;e.  Whose car is that?

That does sound VERY nice.

Same question as Lane; whose car?