Lights out

Just put new lamps on- H4 100/130. Worked well for about 20 min of driving them on. Everything worked- hi/lo beam, parking lts, signals, instrument lts and no fluctuation in intensity when reving anywhere. After the 20 min of them on, I noticed no lights anywhere- head, instruments, running lts. My hi beams work but I have to hold the lever in. I checked my relay and even replaced it, didn't make a difference. Tried changing back to std sealed beams- still no lights. Anyone experience this or know what it could be?

bc

Sounds like a blown fuse. Those H4's take a LOT more current and whatever you have for a fuse might not be enough. Most likely, high and low beams are on different fuses. You were on Low beam most of the time, so the high beam fuse hasn't yet had enough time to blow, but you'll need to replace it, too.

Check the fuses, bump them up to 20 amp and report back.

Oh, and make SURE you have a headlight relay running those headlights or you'll soon be replacing the headlight switch, too, as those 130 watt high beams will turn it to toast. You can't just throw in super-wattage bulbs without beefing up the rest of the infrastructure.

Hey Gordon,
Thanks for the reply. I did check the fuse strip and all the fuses are intact. The relay I have was made by a company DNI #0127 (made in Brazil). Its exactly the same as the stock part which is a German make. It has 56, 56a, 56b, 30, S prongs on it. In the manual, the closest thing it comes to is the dimmer switch/relay. The DNI relay was bought from the place I bought the H4 lts, and I figure this one is supposed to go with the high wattage lamps. Is it? Do I need another relay?

I'm taking a guess here as it's been quite a while since I've messed with these kinds of electrical components but,,, I don't believe the device you're talking about is actually a relay but more of an electro mechanical dimmer switch. It allows current to go to low beams and high beams but not both. If I'm correct, and I again must qualify that it's been a long time since I've messed with this kind of a problem you can obtain that relay at virtually any foreign car parts store

see: http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/manual2/electrical/dimmerrelay.shtml

When I installed H4 headlights on my 1973 Porsche, I added true relays to take the load off the Porsche's 34 year old wire loom. I made those using relay holders and 20/30 relays.

Best to upgrade the wire run to the headlights with 12 ga. wire as there is an additional amp.load ~Alan

You are right Larry. It is a dimmer switch. I've tried to replace it with a DNI one but it doesn't seem to make a difference. The only thing that works is hi beam when I hold the lever in otherwise no lights at all- even rear running lights. What type of relay would I need. Also why doesn't my old std sealed beam lights work anymore. I know I must have burned something out, but what? My fuses are all intact, the wiring seems to be ok- not melted or burned.

you could have burned out the points in the turn signal switch

Larry is probably right, but check your ground connections at each light, and the bond to the chasis. Check the wire involved in this as I've had them burn out on older VWs...The high beams would feed back through the harness....

Good Luck....

Leon C.

Ground connection looks good. I think it may be my turn signal switch. I talk to a guy at a shop and he said if your switch is bad, your headlights won't come on. Don't know enough about the circuitry to know how that all is connected. Thought it could also be my actual headlight on/off switch. Anyways, took out my turn switch, doesn't look all that abnormal to my untrained eyes, and will replace it. Hopefully this works!

Sounds like you may have lost a connection to your light switch. It provides power connections for high beams, generator light, oil pressure light, turn signal lights, gas gauge light and turn signals which inturn supplies current for your brake lights. I'd check to see if you have 12vdc going to and from your light switch on the dash.

I don't see how the turn signal switch could affect the headlights - two totally different circuits and independent from each other.

I'm betting that you have a separate relay in there just for flashing the high beams (if you pull the lever you'll hear it clicking so you can find it) and all other functions (headlight, taillights, etc) work off of the headlight switch and then the hi/lo relay.

I doubt that the hi/lo relay is bad, as that doesn't affect the tail lights, so the only thing that affects BOTH head and tail lights is the headlight switch, the feed wire running from it to the fuse block and the fuse in the block (of course, all wires and slip-on connections between the battery and the headlight switch are suspect, too).

JPS is really a VS, and they've used a VW fuse block (I believe - if so, it should have small ceramic fuse bodies, pointed on each end) and, if they wire it the same as a VW, it should have separate fuses for hi and low beam on each headlight, and separate fuses for left and right tail lights.

Let's do this one step at a time: get a voltmeter, set it to the 25 volt range and probe around the headlight switch to see what's going on. I believe that (you guys always catch me with my service manuals 1000 miles away) the incoming power to the headlight switch is on terminal 30, but there should be TWO terminal 30's - one coming from the voltage regulator, and another going to the turn signal relay. BOTH should have 12 volts at all times. The tail lights are on 58, and the headlight relay on 56 (it may be the other way around - you're really pushing a 57 year old brain here). They should show 12 volts when the headlight switch is pulled out to the first and second positions.

Probe around and report back what you find.

BTW: You asked if you'll need another relay for those flame thrower headlight bulbs.....yes, I'm afraid so. The VW relay is good for something like 15 amps on a good day and you're asking for it to manage twice that amount. You'll need another, 30 amp, headlight relay just to run the headlights. You need a "single pole double throw" relay (get one for fog or driving lights at some place like Autozone) and you can make it switch (energize) off of the Hi-beam lead from your existing headlight relay (terminal 56a, I believe, but it might be terminal "f" - whichever is hi beam). Once installed correctly, the load on your existing headlight switch and relay will drop to less than one amp and those two components will last longer than you will.

Again, probe the headlight switch and report back.......

Tx........gn

Thx guys, I'll try to get another meter this weekend, my old one dropped. Yeh, the dimmer switch seems ok (the clicking doohicky) when I flicker the hi beam- but again I have to hold it in. I'll check the headlight switch. My turn signal switch looks to be very old and fragile. That will be replaced even if it wasn't the problem. Funny thing about my speedy, it seems to have parts of differing years. Since I'm not familiar w/ year to year part changes I either have to guess or bring the part in. Unfortunately, I feel that some of the sales/parts people at VW places don't know all that much about what they sell or VW's for that matter.

"Unfortunately, I feel that some of the sales/parts people at VW places don't know all that much about what they sell or VW's for that matter"

DUH!....

Welcome to the real world......we ALL go through this.....

That's why WE'RE here!

Just a brief description of the wiring in my Spyder....

Power comes directly from the battery, via fuse block, to the Head light switch. Then the output from the light switch goes to the Head light Dimmer Relay.... Power is supplied to the turn siginal switch and Hi/Lo selector switch from a splice at the relay....My headlight "flash" switch activates Hi and Lo beams simultaineously.

Power to the Hi and Lo beams is routed through seperate fuses.....

Parking, Brake, and turn signal lights have seperate fused circuits, but power is routed through the turn signal switch...

Probably not much help, but just maybe......

Good Luck..

Leon C.

Finally got the lights working. I ended up replacing my turn signal switch...wasn't the problem but looked bad. It turns out the light switch I have has a buss fuse attached to it that blew. I haven't seen one like this while shopping for a possible replacement. Anyways, must be goin' blind, didn't see it the first several times I checked it. Changed to 55/60W bulbs, but the fuse gets hot. not blown yet but have to test it out longer.

Bruce....Be sure you incorporate a new fuse in the circuit as a safety precaution....and thanks for the details of the repair...

Leon C.

If the switch/fuse is getting hot due to the higher wattage light bulbs, then a lot of things are wrong, too much resistance which usually equates to too small of a diameter wire.

All of this can be fixed by using relays.
Once the relays are installed, the light switch no longer carries the load imposed on it due to small wires or high load.

The headlight switch will now acts solely as a switch to activate the relay. Once the relay is activated, it will supply the necessary power to the light bulbs.

Thanx for the replys. Yep, new fuse is in order Leon! Also, a relay will be put in as well. I'l try to find one at Pep Boys or Kragen Auto.

Bruce, typically you can find them already wired at such places as Off Road shops If you can't find them, let me know. I have an electrical/wire shop near that sells the relay wire harnesses and I can label where all of the wires attach from your existing wire harness. BTW, the sell just about everything you can think of that deals with the movement of direct current. Crimps, seamless crimps, shrink tube, fuses, relays, connectors, wire, etc etc etc.

Hey Larry,
Thanks for the info. I was able to find a 30 amp relay, it's a 4 prong. The schematics are not that clear. Can you email me where the wires should go and where I should place this relay, e.g just after my headlight switch or along side the dimmer switch, etc.? Thanks!

The relays I use have 5 terminals but you don't use terminal 87a



85 goes to ground

86 energizes the relay, the wire coming from your light switch to the headlights is cut and attached to this terminal

87 goes to a fuse then to your battery

30 goes to the wire you cut and sends power to your headlights

Thx Larry,
Tomorrow I'll put it in. Hopefully, nothin' goes wrong!

I have NOT read all the post on this string so please forgive me. But this sounds familuar. If you tryed to add the high out put lights right in through the dimmer relay It can't handle that many amps
The high and the low circuts will need 2 new 60 amp relays to handle the load of the high output of Zenon high /low beam unit.

But you do use the dimmer relay still but just to trip on the high or low beam 60 amp relays if these are those kind of lights . Id use a antilock brake relay on both.

It's a real heavy duty puppy.

If Im way off just pay me no mind.

He's just using H4's, not those Zenon super jobs

Has anyone converted to HID lights?

Tomm

I want to but Im waiting to see if they ever put them on a jeep CJ seris 4x4 The housing would be a direct fit to a bug or a 356.

If that is a 7" round housing which takes an H4 halogen bulb then the HID 'upgrade' is already available. What I don't know is how to handle hi and lo beams in this situation. It may be better to use the miniature HID driving lights positioned next to the horn grilles where the running lights are now.

Tomm

Jeep CJ uses 7" lamps. Most H4 conversions for HID I've found use a dual bulb. One HID tube for low beams with a halogen bulb siamesed next to it for the highs. I guess you cant get two beam brightnesses from one tube.
http://www.xenonlink.com/product_info.php?products_id=115

I did the same thing as Larry with the relays. Super easy as the existing Lo & Hi headlight leads are right there to use as triggers for the relays. The battery is right there for the 12v+. I used 30a circuit breakers instead of fuses, though. As you can see I carry some "Care Package" with me. Theres a folding lug wrench hiding behind the battery.

Also wanted to pass along to be sure you have good headlight housings(all glass) if you go with higher wattage bulbs. The outer glass lens that keeps the rain out also keeps the heat in. The evil speedster melted it's own halo lights.


~WB

Lights working fine w/ the relay. Larry, changed up some of the connections on the relay, the one you gave me didn't work, however, you knowledge is appreciated. Thanks!

I figured that as I use the 5 terminal relay and you have the 4 terminal... They all pretty much work the same but I'm sure the wiring must be different.

Here's a handy relay tech sheet for all who want to print out and save.
http://www.designtech-intl.com/pdf/notes/note111.pdf

~WB

Can you confirm a supplier for the glass housings I been putting it off but I need to convert to them on both my cars You know the speel Supplier name Phone # and part # I want the glass ones with the HI/LO Halogens