Like New Intermeccanica Roadster going up for sale this weekend

Exactly like my 2009 before my mods/improvements.  Be glad to share pros cons things to look out for etc. Will likely need some TLC since its been sitting so much.  But probably a great car.

Phil,

I was with him when he bought it and the first thing we did was take it to Automotive International for a through going over. . . even though the original owner had done the same every year since it was new.  While the car was there, it was well sorted out and very few adjustments such as bushings, gaskets, shocks, etc. had to be made.  A complete work sheet can be made available to anyone that might be interested.  Since then I've driven the car myself.  It is in excellent condition, and frankly if I did not already own a newly built Speedster I would buy his IM Roadster myself.  The car needs nothing and for the price it will be an exceptional opportunity for someone.

AUTOMOTIVE INTERNATIONAL  http://automotive-international.com/about-us/

$54.9K for quick sale 2009/Cost 85/90K TODAY! It is a beautiful Roadster indeed but it reinforces an IM6/MINT condition for 60K as a bargain(125k PLUS TODAY). I'm smacking myself for not buying it 5 days earlier and mind less having to throw a couple of GRAND into it! NOT SURE how quickly it will sell@54.9 but those with more and better perspective will soon offer opinions......

Banzai,

Your car was a once-in-a-lifetime deal. We all know it, now you do as well. I know you're excited. You can stop rubbing it in anytime.

Just TALKING out-loud on price perspective and buyer hesitation: why is he selling it? what's wrong with it? Just rehashing my own paranoia as a buyer and not patting myself on the back at all....I was ALMOST, and I can say with honesty, hoping that someone else would buy it so "I" wouldn't be the one making the big MISTAKE. I must admit that I hammered 3 shots TEQUILA before I sent the wire....sadly would probably NOT have done it with CLEAR VISION. I am the only CHICKEN SH*T buyer out there?

I used to buy and sell cars when I was much younger and every car fits within certain parameters of age, condition, and depreciation and finally replacement cost.  A car not being used brings more than the same year used but much is dependent on condition and I mean inspected condition.  Every dealership has a main evaluator that deals with evaluating the used cars.  Why?  to remove the emotion out of the transaction and establish a real Value. 

As a buyer ... you are the valuator, buyer all in one and if the madness hits you, you might be willing to pay a price which is twice the real value for the car... that is not the value of the car ... that is simply a MADNESS price.  The same is true for the Seller  

I guess this is where I close with .... Buyer beware. 

Gonna break out the PATRON and hope somebody buys that pretty ROADSTER soon. Looking forward to hearing the perspective on value, currency, inspected condition, opinion, and MADNESS.

Just curious......once the replicas crack $100K, why not purchase the real deal for a bit more?  Perhaps Speedsters are out of reach, but I've seen real deal Good condition Convertible D's and coupes for sale for $125k and up. 

Im not just "picking on" $100k+ IM's, I ponder the same thing with $500k+ GTO and P4 replicas. 

Six-digits can but a lot of fun cars that will quickly escalate in value. 

Any decent "D" will run 150K....too much for a slow car that will RUST and NO fun driving. Some folks just wont drive a collector"D" as it is probably NO FUN to drive. I did consider a SUNBEAM TIGER as it is on the edge of affordability(75K) and a rising SHELBY vintage that IS fun to drive. A decent SPEEDSTER is 200-300K....strictly for the garage and NOT for commuting. Coupes are NO FUN...especially in Hawaii and early 60s(D/59) technology not fun. One could do a decent 69 to 71 E-TYPE for 65 to 100K and have fun driving......but something nice about a car that will NOT RUST.....EVER. I dont think I would pay 125K for a new IM...probably buy a TIGER/260-289 just because of the UPSIDE? Its a good question though...WHERE does one draw the LINE and WHY?

A few more pics:

"......once the replicas crack $100K, why not purchase the real deal for a bit more?..."

Why not, indeed?

I think this is about having both a lady in the parlor and a tiger in the bedroom, to reference another unrealistic male fantasy.

Here, the fantasy is the look and manners of a classic, but the performance of a modern speed machine.

The $300,000 concours Speedster is elegant, refined, witty, well-spoken, but not much fun after dinner. On the road, it's little better than a 1966 Karmann Ghia. Some would say a little worse.

For about half of that, you can have a dalliance with a modern 911 that drives like nothing that was on the road, or on the racetrack, in 1958. But its looks are a bit tawdry and far too common. You wouldn't take it to church on Sunday morning, or to afternoon tea.

So, which will it be? The lady or the tiger?

Being males, we're always fantasizing about finding both in one faithful companion.

Hmm. Maybe I'll give Henry a call.

"I think this is about having both a lady in the parlor and a tiger in the bedroom, to reference another unrealistic male fantasy."

Here it is portrayed in Hollywood:

Well.... you need to watch "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"  

Maria Portokalos: Toula, on my wedding night, my mother, she said to me, "Greek women, we may be lambs in the kitchen, but we are tigers in the bedroom."

Toula Portokalos: Eww. Please let that be the end of your speech.

"......once the replicas crack $100K, why not purchase the real deal for a bit more?..."   To answer the questions:  Have you seen the flatbed towing topic?  For that excitement solely

I think it's spectacular that some of these builds—i.e., Henry's—run to six figures. It's not easy to build a car—any car, even an '80s pan kit—and the difficulty of engineering things to fit together and actually work is something that increases exponentially as the desired performance increases.

Serious skill; serious labor.

So a buck-twenty-five for an IM6 is a bargain, when you look at what it takes. I don't think the price would fall much even if there were five or six Henry's out there who all hated each other.

A new or slightly used VS at $30k is also a pretty good value. You get 92 percent of the look and 140 percent (or more) of the performance of a Speedster for 10 percent of the cost.

Now, the values of the originals are something else all together. These wax and wane on a generational wave, with other, shorter waves rippling on top of them depending on what the global economy is up to. Olden Porsches are super hot right now, but they probably won't be in 20 years, when their generational cohort dies off. The market for these has nothing to do with their value as feats of engineering, and as has been said, they're not at all practical as driving machines—mainly because of their high values.

So you really can't compare a replica to an original. They serve entirely different functions.

Everybody's got some limit on the size of their personalized fun-bucket, depending on a lot of variables, not the least of which is psychological. 

When I got into the hobby in 2000, I just couldn't make myself pull the trigger on any car costing more than $15K. I bought one for less than that, then proceeded to put stuff and effort into it until I had exceeded the original size of the bucket. I sold the car at a small profit, which is a bit like the very first sip of Boone's Farm a lifelong alcoholic drinks on his 15th birthday. 

In 2002, when I was ready for something "better", I had increased the size of my fun-bucket to a more realistic number, but I still wouldn't/couldn't cross the $30K threshold. I had Henry Reisner quote me a car when the Canadian dollar was at an all-time low against the greenback. I'd never seen an IM, and John Steele was promising a car every bit the IM equal at .80 on the dollar. I bit on the most painful transactions of my life until that point. The car was a mess, and I spent more than the difference between the JPS and the IM to get it straightened out. By the time I was squared away, I had blown through my self-imposed limit for a second time.

I couldn't look at the car without seeing john Steele lurking somewhere in it, and so sold it at a bit of a loss. It was tough, but not devastating. I had reached the point of waking up embarrassed at my behaviour at the wedding the night before, but was still sure I could control my habit. This thing wouldn't wreck my life.

In 2005, I contracted with Intermeccanica to build a coach+ ( a complete car, less running gear), and pieced together the first of a half-dozen engine/transaxle permutations I've had in the car. This time, I consciously determined that I wasn't going to penny-pinch-- I'd economize where I could, but the thing was going to cost whatever it cost.

When you make this decision, it frees up your mind and opens up a world of possibility to take "the road less traveled" (or more truthfully, "the road everybody else avoids because it's slower and there's a lot of tolls"). Big engine. 4-speed 2.0. Dry-sump. Detuned big engine. 4-speed 3.0. Twin-plug engine. 4-speed 4.0. You stop adding up the outlay, because you don't want to know. There's always a bottle of vodka in the pantry, under the bathroom sink, out in the garage, and under the seat in the truck. It's a problem even you can recognize.

It's madness.

When I bought my first <$15K replica, an OG speedster could be had for $30K- $50K, coupes were less than $10K. By the time I bought the JPS, they were about $75K. By '05 when I bought the IM, original speedsters had crossed the $100K threshold. Everybody was keeping score, trying to determine how much was "too much" for a replica.

There was a guy here who liked to stir the pot (he's the reason you can't post to an old thread, or alter your posts after a period of time-- he liked edit his posts after 2 years had passed, and 25 people had commented). He was fond of pointing out 2 year/old OG speedster pricing (of the rattiest car out there), and compare it to a full-on, all bells and whistles IM and say (in effect), "you IM guys are idiots. You could've bought an original".

This whole line of reasoning did a huge favor for me. It crystallized the thought in my head that I didn't really WANT an OG museum piece. I wanted a car that looked like a "real" one, but was better by any metric of use. I wanted a car that I dreamed up and put together. I stopped caring what OG speedsters were selling for, and stopped wondering if I was being an idiot. Of course, there's a limit to this kind of thinking, but the limit is not, "what's an original cost?". The limit is, "how much can I afford to spend on this car to get what I need out of it?"

We now live in a world of $250K OG 356 coupes, and $500K OG speedsters. So what? The OG cars are no better than they were when they cost 1/10 as much. Are the people buying them idiots?

... and that's my "ah-ha" moment for 2017. The question for me isn't "how much OG Porsche love can be purchased for $100K?" The question for me is, "how many other things can I buy (that I'd like more) for the same money?"

This is the genius of Jim Ignacio.

I can honestly say that I'm happy with what I've got, and I have no desire for an original, and really couldn't care less what they are worth. I've built the car I want. I'm presently building the home I want, not because I think it's a good investment (it's a horrible investment), but because it's where I want to live (given the constraints of my profession and family commitments), and because I want what I want. There's a limit to this thinking, but everybody's got a different limit.

That's how I look at it. Your mileage may vary.

Stan I also traced the accent of OG cars but after owning one I had enough of P unreasonableness.... and I did not have a garage to park it in, just to bow down before it... It reminds me a little of the bubble gum sports card collections, at least they take up little space. 

In summary, I love the body shape and I want to drive a dependable, cough, more dependable version.

Cliff

I believe that some or all of your pictures are from the prior sale.  Someone posted the previous add on this site.  I cannot find that previous post.  Maybe someone with more search skills than I have can find it.  I do remember that one of the pictures showed some type of lubricant leakage on the driver side rear shock.  It was speculated at that time that there was a leaky shock or a torn CV boot.  Is that why the shocks were replaced?  Unusual to need shock replacement with that few miles.  On the other hand CV boots can go bad after sitting for so long.  Unless the car was stored on a lift I'd be concerned about the integrity of the tires.  I will repeat that regardless of a few rubber or shock problems I'm sure, like my car, its an incredible machine.  But there WILL be some small issues with the car.  And I would suggest anyone buying the car get a PPI, pre purchase inspection.

Banzai Pipeline posted:

Just TALKING out-loud on price perspective and buyer hesitation: why is he selling it? what's wrong with it? Just rehashing my own paranoia as a buyer and not patting myself on the back at all....I was ALMOST, and I can say with honesty, hoping that someone else would buy it so "I" wouldn't be the one making the big MISTAKE. I must admit that I hammered 3 shots TEQUILA before I sent the wire....sadly would probably NOT have done it with CLEAR VISION. I am the only CHICKEN SH*T buyer out there?

Well, If you are having buyer's remorse, I am sure you can find someone to take the car off your hands before you ship it all the way to Hawaii. 

NO REMORSE(LOL).....just trying to NOT think about the HEEBEE GEEBEES process of "should I" or "shouldn't I"

Phil IM356D posted:

Cliff

I believe that some or all of your pictures are from the prior sale.  Someone posted the previous add on this site.  I cannot find that previous post.  Maybe someone with more search skills than I have can find it.  I do remember that one of the pictures showed some type of lubricant leakage on the driver side rear shock.  It was speculated at that time that there was a leaky shock or a torn CV boot.  Is that why the shocks were replaced?  Unusual to need shock replacement with that few miles.  On the other hand CV boots can go bad after sitting for so long.  Unless the car was stored on a lift I'd be concerned about the integrity of the tires.  I will repeat that regardless of a few rubber or shock problems I'm sure, like my car, its an incredible machine.  But there WILL be some small issues with the car.  And I would suggest anyone buying the car the get a PPI, pre purchase inspection.

Phil,

Yes, those are the pictures that were published in November 2016 which is when my friend bought the car from the original owner. 

The original owner, who is quite wealthy and still lives here in the city, had Henry build the car for his wife's birthday in 2009. . . but she never drove it; however, he drove it a little each year if only to keep the tires etc. from going bad.  

My reason for posting this notice is because my very close friend who bought the car in November, and who I have known for over 60 years, has turned ill.  His sister who has current power-of-attorney is selling both his house and this car.  I only wish to help the family.

I would suggest re-reading my original comments again.  Back In January we had the car completely sorted out by a team of professionals who specialize in restoring and servicing vintage sports cars as well as working on newer high-in European cars (Automotive International  http://automotive-international.com/about-us/). 

What ever upgrades were needed have been completed, such as installing new Bilstein shocks thanks to Henry Reisner's suggestion, but I agree that it makes good common sense for any potential buyer to get their own PPI no matter what.   Better yet, hop on an airplane to come see and drive the car.  After all, it was built by Intermeccanica. . . and for someone it will prove to be an exceptional buy.

Cliff

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201716...e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Found it.

edsnova posted:

"You get 92 percent of the look and 140 percent (or more) of the performance of a Speedster for 10 percent of the cost."

 

That's a great line, right there.

AND...if you convert to VEGETABLE OIL DIESEL, your SPEEDIE can smell like FRENCH FRIES

Cliff - that is a very nice car and is fairly priced! It's just waiting for the right buyer to come along. I don't think it will take long and that it's sale will help with your friend's situation.  

I hope the car comes with some extra engine mounts....

The BOTTOM LINE is, for us BABY BOOM men in  our 50s/60s/70s, that a KIA@25K is NOT a whole lot different than a RANGE ROVER@100K! The promise of the good ole days of "milk shakes at the diner" sing to us of an upside down bathtub with 4 wheels zipping down Main Street......Eisenhower, burger/fries/coke 35 cents, Sunoco 260 @ 19 cents/gallon

Both the rear shocks on my 2003 IM roadster (with 6k miles) were leaking too, when I got it a year ago. (I also put Blistiens on it.)
Not sure what would cause this : strapped down too tight on a trailer, hitting speed bumps too hard, maybe just drying out from sitting...
Also I had to repack my inner cvs, and I replaced the outer ones. Lots of grease on the inside of the wheels when I got it.  At 6k miles!
I assumed the sellers teenage son had been out running the snot out of the car, but who knows...? Honestly the engine was in such bad shape when I got it, that would have been hard to do. 

Cliff's car looks great. Sounds like it has been sorted. I love the original touches.
Priced inline with what is asked with these appointments ...

I hope it sells for you (& your friend) quickly.

Any car thirteen years old with six thousand miles on it will have rubber parts that will dry out and leak.  If a car is not driven, and is not maintained properly,  you can expect to do a lot of replacing of parts.

In the end, you'll have good, solid car, and then it's up to you to do the driving and maintenance. 

Any car that sits and does not move is in trouble of seizing somewhere and everywhere and having grease, joints and everything dry out.  So I would not be surprised that the whole car has slowly seized up and only a complete overlook of all systems can assure you that you'll not have a tow truck or rather a flat bed experience home. 

A new car has all systems lubed and flexed and ready to go a 10 year old garage car ... even with 5 miles on the clock is NOT NEW.  

I should have mentioned that the body might be mint looking though  

It's a beautiful car. Good luck with the sale.

A word of advice-- guys who want to sell their cars go elsewhere. Guys who want everybody to tell them why they won't sell their car post them here.

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:

It's a beautiful car. Good luck with the sale.

A word of advice-- guys who want to sell their cars go elsewhere. Guys who want everybody to tell them why they won't sell their car post them here.

Stan,

Thank you.  This has been a lesson for me and I read you loud and clear. 

Having been around the car so much myself since my friend bought it last November, and I have driven it some, I know it as well as anybody.  

What few issues it may have had when it was first purchased were well sorted out in January by professionals; therefore, I've tried to make all this perfectly clear to everyone in this thread. . . but what has surprised me is how doubtful some of the remarks continue to be. 

This is not to say that I blame anyone for continuing to express some degree of caution because in the final analysis the only way for someone to satisfy themselves that the car is as good as I've claimed it to be is to come and inspect it themselves. 

Wishing you a great holiday Stan.

Cliff  

Thanks, and to you as well.

He is risen!

That car bought today will NOT be as new.  Period.  It is still a great car.  And considering the price of a new one similarly equipped, a pretty fair price.  I have the exact same 2009 car but with the additional hard top.  Another selling point you failed to mention.  When that car was built the engine was a brand new crate engine from vw/audi with 0 miles.  Unlike all of the air cooled and subaru IMs with rebuilt engines this engine was built at the vw/audi factory.  I tell everyone that my engine is the thing that I worry about the least.  Add that to the list.  Good luck to you and the owner.

And you can give my name to whoever buys the car.  I have made many performance and aesthetic changes to my car.  If the buyer would like more hp, better brakes, better exhaust etc. feel free to give them my name.  I know that car inside and out.

Phil Luebbert

YES INDEED...the paranoia of the potential buyer...IT IS REAL....no explanation other than "if its so cool and such a great deal, why is it for sale?". Yes common sense says: issues with storage, illness, cash flow, new car.......BUT that lingering "LEMON" hangs in the rafters..........

I don't think anyone here is trying to disparage your valuation of the car Cliff we are simply telling people to do their own homework and telling stories of previous fiascos.  Have a great Spring feast, Passover. Ray

Would it be too much to ask that we stop incessantly picking apart somebody's "for sale" posts? Really. It's a horrible habit we've gotten into on this site (probably the worst thing about it).

Aside from just being straight up bad form, someday you might like to sell something. 

We'll said Stan.  I actually sold my Speester last fall and shied away from listing it here for that reason. It was what it was and it sold for a fair price to a good home. 

Being the owner of an almost identical 2009 I would tell anyone who is considering purchasing a new convertible D to buy Cliffs car. It is the pinnacle of the 356 replica market. And I certainly hope he gets every penny of the asking price. Hope feelings have not been hurt. Is it an awesome car. Yes. Is it "like new" or "perfect"?  No it is not. Those adjectives cannot honestly be used to describe an 8 year old car. I think that all of our discussion is honest and constructive and does not devalue this beautiful automobile.