look at the wheels on this....

I don't know about the wheels, but the heels were pretty impressive!

Looks like everything's fake above the waistline, but it's comforting to note that the Lady likes to take care of herself.

 

Look over the right windshield wiper in pic number 13. The little nipper is up to something, eh?

 

I've got a thing about wipers lately..........

Looks like a tranny...

 

Tastfuly done  Bill....

I bet there is a long line of people that are very tired of her temperament.

 

I'm talking about the car.

 

Ted

Dave, all I see there is a skate board; whachoo lookin' at?

 

Says "all metal" -- looks like a real one to me.  Ask me how I know . . .

LOL.  Dave, you must have a 65 inch monitor to have noticed that!
       

Doesn't look like a four cam engine to me. Pushrod engine, don't care for the scoop on the air intake either.

I noticed the engine wasn't right as well, Chuck. And I guess the scoop is a simpler solution than the car with the fresh air ducted in from the front (via a big tube through the passenger compartment) that I've posted the pic of in the past. These things tell me that when you drive these cars hard (even originals), more air intake is needed. Al

The ad says the 4-cam was "lost" in the 60s and replaced with a roller-bearing push-rod 356 motor. But is that a 356 motor or a Type 1 VW with a 356-looking shroud and linkage? I have no idea how to tell.

Browsing the same section of fleabay, I came across this numbers matching "restored" '57.

 

 

I don't want to be catty, but for $220k (reserve not met), I'd like something other than VW Type 1 headlight buckets and this quality dash paint-job:

 

Yikes. Seriously.

that is some textbook orange peel.

It's a 356 or 912, Ed. The one engine pic (#14) isn't great, but look at where the fuel pump is (below the distributor) and the generator stand is part of the right case half. In pic 16 (looking at the engine and exhaust from below) you can see the exaust ports are rectangular.

I didn't watch the entire video, but I didn't see any mention of the rear fender arches being cut (the shape is changed) nor did I see any mention of them being rolled/flared to clear those wheels (they are flared).  This one will need some serious metal work to make correct again...

Orange peel! I could fix it! Where did I put my wet / dry paper?!

 

What's the difference between Type1 headlight buckets and proper 356 headlight buckets? 

 

T

I was gonna ask that same question about the headlight buckets. 356 vs. VW.  My recollection is these are the same.

Is it the adjustment screws? 356 has two on the bottom and the bug has them at 1 and 7 o'clock?

 

Ted

From what I have learned in my pursuit of information since obtaining my Speedster replica I am going to say the original 356 Speedster did not have the small bulb in the headlight bucket.  I did find something that seems to support that:

 

http://derwhites356literature....ittleKnownFacts.html

 

Scroll down to the section, "Back to the headlight assemblies and integrated park lights".  

 

I read through all of it and it seems to support the notion that none of the original Porsche 356s had the small bulb in the headlight bucket.

 

It doesn't list a separate small bulb until the "January 1960 356-B T-5 Parts Book which lists a non-sealed beam bulb, and the parts diagram shows a small 4 watt additional bulb as part of the headlight bulb assembly. It is not stated specifically that this 4 watt bulb is a Park light, although no other use makes sense. It would have been available for right hand traffic countries, EXCEPT USA."

 

However, when I went to the Porsche 356 Registry it would appear that many but not all of the restored 356s had headlight buckets that contain the small bulb we often use as parking lights. So it's possible that with no other parts available for restorations restoration specialists have resorted to using Type 1 headlight buckets.

 

I didn't spend hours on this research so I may have missed something.

It took Carey's mention of the rear wheel arches being modified and flared to take a 2nd (and 3rd) look at the pics again; the side trim pieces that would normally be over the wheel openings have been shortened and the wheel arches are cut higher (there should be 4" of body from the trim piece down to the middle of the wheel opening), which made it easier to make fairly non obtrusive flares.

It is my understanding that original Porsche Speedsters did not have running lights in the buckets. The headlight buckets I posted the link from were lifted from a current ebay add with a $2950 buy-it-now. You first.

 

Ridiculous, but the car I posted the link to is over $200K, has horrific orange-peel on the dash, has buckets that are clearly (to me at least) not original, and has not yet made reserve.

 

The car in the original ad (the flared, claimed GS) better have an airtight certificate of authenticity stating it is such, because there's very little original left to buy on that one.

 

Both of them prove that the market has gone/ continues to go nuts.

The original car at the top of the thread has also had the bumper slots filled in and the bumper/nerf bars removed. It has Type 1 headlight buckets and the heater control knob has been removed.

 

The more time one spends looking at this car the more you realize how far it is getting from original.  For the amount of money they're asking you'd expect much more.

 

Here is a list of Speedsters that have sold at auction and their prices as well as a list of Speedsters that did not sell at auction and what they were asking.  Prices are not consistent between them. The final price seems to have much to do with how many previous owners and whether or not the car had a notable history etc.  Even some of the highest priced Speedsters had Type 1 headlights used in their restoration.  Quite a few of these did not though.

 

http://www.supercars.net/cars/5475.html

I think before I spent a quarter million on either of them, I'd take along a paint depth gauge. I'd be willing to bet there's a not insignificant amount of filler in both of them.

Regardless of the "incorrectness" of the originally posted car, two things stand out: the wheels are widened wide fives, I assume only cafe posted this in the titile of the thread to illustrate what the wheels would look like on a flared speedster as someone on this site was thinking about this in another thread. The second thing that stands out to me is the "whole" experience of owning and competing in an original Porsche Speedster. Well documented in the 500+ photos, we see a man, Norm, going through the different stages of madness. He buys a throroughly civilian speedster and gets the urge to race. After some experience and minor modifications he realizes he needs something more radical. He trades his 57 for a race-prepared 56 and continues to tweak and modify the car to his liking. He buys a 63 cab to keep his civilian side happy and races his speedster on the weekends. He collects trophies as he triumphs, race after race. He immerses himself in the Porsche culture, vacationing with other like-minded souls. He lives a life that embodies the true nature and true intention that Max Hoffman envisioned when he requested Porsche to build an affordable sports car for the masses in the USA.

For me, that is the true value of this car, not the "numbers matching, headlight-correct, properly upgraded, "always garaged" car. 

I hope top dollar is received for this speedster and the wealthier-than-me person who wins it feels the same way.

Good points, Terry.

 

It's just madness of a different flavor, I suppose. FWIW, I'd rather roll the first car than the badly restored black one.

 

We're a long, long way from what Max envisioned for the speedster back in the day. At this point, a used 986 Boxster comes the closest to what a speedster once was.

I guess the mind numbing thing for me is that these cars are considered investments now.

In this crazy world of ebay and Barrett & Jackson we see individuals paying exorbitant amounts for throwaway cars of yesterday. Obviously, like a good watch, there are standouts of what one would consider a collectable car, thus an investment. The early Porsches were made by laborers who punched a clock and threw on parts that sat in bins. Watching "Made by Hand" illustrates the "fine workmanship" that went into these cars. Older VWs were built for the masses and masses there were. I don't  understand what is going on in the air-cooled world but, then again, I don't understand the stock market or gambling either.

I buy a car to drive. I drive what pushes buttons in me. Looking through Norm's photos showed me another guy like me. 

However, I don't think I'd post a photo of my wife taking a bath if I was trying to sell a car unless I was asking for a divorce...

 

it is just men's jewelry and more fun than a Rolex daytona paul newman panda.

At the bottom of it all, cars all start out being made to drive, for sure. But there comes a point when a truly seminal automobile rounds a bend and heads off into the iconic. At that point, people stop looking at it for what it was (a conveyance), and start treating it like something precious but not very useful-- like rolling jewelry (as DannyMax noted) or automotive art.

 

There's no denying that Porsche changed the direction of the automotive trajectory (at least for a while) away from bigger and more powerful conveyances, and into an ethos that "less is more". The beetle embodied that, the 356 refined it, and the speedster was the absolute distillation of it. It was pure, and joyful, and went really fast by not needing to slow down. It became an icon and built a brand.

 

But that was all a long time ago. The "less is more" ideal was a sidetrack, even for Porsche-- and eventually every auto maker gravitated back to the path of least resistance: more power, more complexity, more weight. Part of this is government mandate, but most of it is the marketplace demanding comfort, speed, safety, and utility. That leaves the speedster as something unique, frozen in amber-- the trailhead of a path that might have been a highway, except that nobody uses it any more.

 

A Miata or Elise or early Boxter come closest to the original speedster ethos, but you can see how they are generally dismissed by "car guys". It seems like 500 hp is the current threshold into the "man-car" club. Lesser cars are just... lesser.

 

I'm as guilty as the next flat-land knuckle-dragger of blindly following the masses down this rat-hole, and there are times when I take a step back from the thing I've created (and keep recreating) in my garage, and wonder what the point is. It's neither fish nor fowl-- my car is more complicated by an order of magnitude than Max's originals, but has neither the easy reliability and power of a modern car, nor the anvil-like simplicity of the original. Or even a "lesser" eplica speedster.

 

... but then I drive it, and I remember why I love the stupid thing. Even under all the goo-gaws and armor I've piled on, it's elemental. There are delicious flaws baked in the cake that cannot be frosted over with dry-sumps and dual-plugs. My car rewards correct inputs with sweetness, but punishes my missteps by trying to kill me. I love that rawness, and I sometimes wish I hadn't worked so hard to try to exorcise it from it.

 

But if I could afford an original, I'd never know if it was sweet or not. I'd buy the best car I could afford and find, send it to Wilhoit or Emory (depending on whether my fortune was worth <$10M or >$10M), and get a 99 point restoration or "approved outlaw" upgrade (the absurdity of that description is breathtaking) so I could put the car on a rotisserie and look at it. I'd never dream of driving something irreplaceable and worth north of a quarter to a third of a million dollars. As such, the starting condition and originality of the power-plant (as well as the "correctness" of the headlight buckets and the like) would matter. A lot.

 

As it stands with my car right now, I couldn't care less. I like it that way.

stan, you can't see me. but i stand to doff my cap and applaud your post.....brilliant!........

as a matter of fact, i think i will get myself a wee dram and toast you in absentia as well!

The Alfa 4C is also a pure lightweight drivers car.

i'm hoping that they depreciate at a faster rate than  new audis .... maybe then i can get one.

So they are. Selling like... well, Alfas.

 

I'd consider one if it had a manual. And wasn't made by Italians. 

Yeah the orange peal speaks volumes.

 

Buckets? Only one bucket I was looking at.

Buy it now of $1.2 million?  Girl, car and house??

is he going for a guinness record?

I am not a Porsche expert but seriously, the seller wants $1.189 million U.S. dollars or pesos?

 

I see real frame off restored  356 speedsters sell for $300-$400K but this eBay price is looney.

Am I wrong? What is so special about this car?

 

i'm telling you Danny it has to be a package deal.  Take the payments on the car, house and wife..... or maybe its just to test the waters to see how carzy values are or are willing to go.

 

personally, the  ad and the photos don't impress me.  the female posing next to the car makes the auction look  'tacky.'   The seller is asking for over a $1mil.  Pay somebody $$$  to write a proper ad to attract car  collectors.... unless the world is full of suckers writing $1mil checks without doing any research?