looking at a uncompleted kit

Flared fender CMC's tend to value at 25% less than the more desirable classic body style.  I pushed some numbers for you......  Motor and swing axle trans will have to be gone through, carb set, clutch set, rear torsion bearings, seals etc, possible floor pans work, brake system , fuel system, electrical system , windshield package , seats , tracks, carpet set, door panels door rails , gauge set, top , header bow, metal bow set, quarter boot, side curtains, tires and wheels and address anybody issues and possible paint work......this is an extremely  labor intensive process and more costly at a  minimum $22k not including what you pay for it OR ....any body and paint work. )   as speedster parts have skyrocketed 40% in the last year as well as VW mechanical components are at 30% increase. Unless you can but it for very cheap it's not as enticing as it initially appears to be.  In addition to what parts I listed I would add in a cushion of $3,500 for misc. to cover all the extras that will arise during the build. I've bought many project speedsters like this and would not pay more than $3,500 for the sole reason you don't actually know what you are getting until is sits in your garage.  Estimate: Pay $3,500, $22,000 to complete...plus $3,500 cushion comes to $29,000 not... including any body and paint work ( $5 to $8k)  All in all you could be into this build for as much as $ $37,000 and you have to be willing to do most of the work yourself.   Hope this is of help to you.

Looks like a Porsche 356c transmission…….

@imperial posted:

Looks like a Porsche 356c transmission…….

Yeah - weird mounting ears on either side of the nose cone.  Probably worth more than an old swing axle VW trans to a 356 enthusiast.  Plus probably won't fit on VW chassis nor will shift shaft be in right place. Looks like the huge rear 356 brake backing plates and 5 bolt 130mm pattern on it too. No height adjuster on front end beam - maybe 2" dropped axle?

On the other side - the classic CMC kit sold for $8k in 1990 plus $1-1.5k shipping.  Included was a windshield w/frame, door handles, hinges, lights (replicas), crude seats and carpeting, plus top frames/bows and vinyl top.  Kitman in CA currently sells a fiberglass body for $6600, subframe $3,200, plus $225 pallet so $10,015 plus probably same shipping as CMC.  Kitman has shortened chassis for $3400. You would then need all the parts that came with the CMC kit - $4k easily.  Check prices at Speedster Replica Parts - Home (vintagespeedsterparts.com).  Parts have gotten expensive (and quality iffy) but so have new/used Speedsters - what used to be $16000-20000 are now $30000-36000. A wiring kit is now $900!

I thought I could complete my 1989 build for $13k but didn't want steel VW wheels, basic interior, dual carbs, disk brakes or vinyl top plus would like a nice paint job vs boat gel coat --- so another $7k!

If you can't do all the work yourself (and don't actually have time and ability) buy a completed running car!

Just for information , the VW transaxle pictures above is an early “split case” transaxle  that you do not want for your Speedster,

It’s from the 1950s and does not have First gear synchro so it’s a “crash box” , the earlier “split case” transaxles have no synchros so you have to double clutch to shift.

if you see the bolts holding the 2 half’s of the transaxle case together , walk away !

Here's a 356 transaxle with weird ears-

Judging by what appears to be oxidation on the trans and the open filler in the engine (how long?) I wouldn’t pay more than scrap prices for either.

Thanks for all the input guys. It sounds like I would be buying a body and the rest is basically unknown to useless.  With that being said, would the body be worth it? If kit man is selling the same set up for $10,000 and I could get it for say $3000 would it be worth the effort or am I just trying to justify this one? I have been known to be a little hard headed.

@Funboy posted:

If kit man is selling the same set up for $10,000 and I could get it for say $3000 would it be worth the effort

There's probably more useful things than just the body. If you like to build and fabricate things, AND you have the time, then buying it isn't a bad idea.

Otherwise, I'd keep looking. I brought one back that was in worse shape and it was good that I was retired.

They are out there for cheap( like your $3000 example) but you really have to have some ability to put these things together(and of course the time).

There is a guy here in Chicago that is driving a really unfinished one that he clearly built himself. It definitely has a 1600 or smaller engine and is in need of some fiberglass work/paint job.

He looks as if he's having a blast!! I'm always going the wrong direction or I can just  hear that VW engine tweeting by.

If you have a place to work on it and if you can "shop hard" you can get it done.

Shop hard= Look for deals

@WOLFGANG posted:

Here's a 356 transaxle with weird ears-

I don't necessarily think that they are "weird ears". They are just the 356 engine mounts. No way possible to get that into a VW pan unless you modify or change the nosecone. I've no idea if this is even available or possible.

With respect to the split case VW transmission they have no synchro on first only, the other three do have synchros. Some inside parts are more fragile than the later transmissions. If I was building a Speedster I'd stay away, but I'd use one in a numbers-matching early-60s and older VW.

The Porsche swingaxle transmission in the first series of photos also has a bent/ruined brake backing plate. The drums are missing, and are quite a bit larger than VW. They fill up the space in the wheel completely instead of the 9" drums of VW..

Looks like just the 356 nose cone is $500 and an incomplete empty '57 dated transaxle case is $3900 (for sale --- not sold --on SAMBA):

Project 644 Tranny , Gear Cluster is missing, just a empty Shell and NO Nose Cone, Has Hoop and Axles, Backing Plates, and Brakes, but no Drums

TheSamba.com :: VW Classifieds - Project 11/57 Porsche 356A Trans 644 Misc. Hoop

I'd think $3k would be deal - hopefully you'd get good useable GA "title" to be able to register it on the chassis and local pu (not have to pay shipping).

But why would you ever want a 356 trans in a pan/Speedster? Are you putting in a 356 engine too? Not in this case.

I can't think of a single reason to do that. Everything is available still(slowly LOL!) for a VW, and everything is EXPENSIVE for a 356 trans.

If I bought this amalgam of parts, the first thing I'd do is sell the 356 trans and buy a VW one.

@DannyP posted:

If I bought this amalgam of parts, the first thing I'd do is sell the 356 trans and buy a VW engine and trans.

Fixed

Last time I saw a set of aluminum finned drums, which would be required (AFTER all the chassis mods to fit it)  they were ~$8,000.

Nah. No need to fix anything @dlearl476. I stand by my statement regarding the VW TRANSMISSION.

If one had a 356 or VW motor, either one would be fine.

My friend Mike has a 2000 Vintage 550. It has a VW transmission, VW axles and tubes, but 356 rear drum brakes. The bolt circle for the backing plate is identical.

You need the Porsche backing plate, wheel cylinder, hardware kit, shoes, drum, and the 356 bearing cap/seal holder.

The seal kit is exactly the same for either VW or Porsche. The oil seal, O-rings, and gaskets all fit. I just put them back on on Friday, two days ago. You just have to remember to put the Porsche spacer washer in the housing before you press the seal in.

@Funboy   Sent you a PM...

@DannyP posted:

Nah. No need to fix anything @dlearl476. I stand by my statement regarding the VW TRANSMISSION.

If one had a 356 or VW motor, either one would be fine.

My point was you could likely buy an engine and transmission for what you could sell that 356 trans for.

I’d love to have 356 brakes on my Spyder, except for this:

I asked a local machine shop what it would cost to make fake “Alfin” drums to go along with 356 guts. Turned out to be between $1000~$1200 for a set if I had 10 sets made.

Then I remembered insurance.