Looking For Feedback: My First Beck Build

Are you going with an air cooled VW based engine or a Subaru water cooled engine?. I have owned Speedsters powered by both and my vote is Suby power all the way. No worries about over heating and you get almost 100% dependability. An actual turn the key and drive experience.  You also get triple the HP and torque as compared to most VW Type 1 drivetrains. If you plan on driving  your Speedster a considerable amount then this an option to seriously consider.  If I am not mistaken Carey has said that the majority of their new builds are currently Suby powered. Congrats on your new Speedster build. Have fun during the process and keep us informed as to your choices and progress.

Jimmy V. posted:

Are you going with an air cooled VW based engine or a Subaru water cooled engine?. I have owned Speedsters powered by both and my vote is Suby power all the way. No worries about over heating and you get almost 100% dependability. An actual turn the key and drive experience.  You also get triple the HP and torque as compared to most VW Type 1 drivetrains. If you plan on driving  your Speedster a considerable amount then this an option to seriously consider.  If I am not mistaken Carey has said that the majority of their new builds are currently Suby powered. Congrats on your new Speedster build. Have fun during the process and keep us informed as to your choices and progress.

 

Thanks Jimmy, so happy to have discovered this community along the way.

Acknowledging that I agree with everything you said about the merits of the Suby option, I’m going with air cooled.  Part of the reason I pulled the trigger on this project is because I’m trying to capture a feeling, and I think part of the “vintage” driving experience is the sound.  You can’t fake the echo of carbs and I was worried the modern, water cooled running noise would take me out of the vintage experience behind the wheel.

I know I’m asking for more maintenance and “dialing it in” in my future, but practicality wasn’t really part of the deal when I wrote the check...

Will your car have the traditional Beck frame, or the newer design?

You didn't mention any thing specifically so I'll just throw this out there- go discs all around so the thing will always stop. If you're thinking of 5x205 mm bolt pattern wheels spend the few extra dollars and go with the aluminum Vintage 190's- they are so worth it. If you come from somewhere with real seasons, talk to Carey about seat heaters to extend your driving season.

@Sam Brown wrote- "I know I’m asking for more maintenance and “dialing it in” in my future, but practicality wasn’t really part of the deal when I wrote the check..."

A word of advice- if you're not already somewhat familiar with VW aircooled engines,  not a tinkerer, not prepared to spend time learning about oil changes, valve/timing/carburetor adjustments and a mechanic will be doing the maintenance on you car- call Carey first thing Monday morning and have the conversation about putting Subaru power in your car. I'm not trying to be difficult or insulting- I want your ownership of this car to be successful/enjoyable and you to own this car for a long time, but for too many people the romantic visions of ownership- jumping in at a moment's notice and driving off here and there with the wind in the hair (or scalp, as the case may be) doesn't meet the reality- the car sitting more than it's driven because, being aircooled, it's almost constantly in need of tweeking. The VW Beetle aircooled engine is technology from 60-70 years ago (when the automotive world was barely out of it's infancy), requires a lot of maintenance by today's standards, hotrodded engines need to be monitored more closely than normal and if you don't know what to expect it could ruin the experience.

Please don't take this the wrong way- I want you to enjoy your car and be a contributing member here for a long time. Al

Lane Anderson posted:

Will your car have the traditional Beck frame, or the newer design?

Newer design, apparently one of the first-ish. Thanks Lane, I enjoyed reading about your coupe project in other threads, looks amazing!

Yoda (ALB) is correct.  You live in DC Metro area - you'll want heat and air conditioning (sitting on I495/270 in traffic).  Water-cooled is truly the way to go.  Beck can build an exhaust that will give you the air-cooled exhaust sound (close to square exhaust ports of the 356 even) - without leaving a drippy oil trail.  Plus I believe it will maintain its value and be more desirable in the future.  No frequent oil changes or valve adjustments - no overheating.  

ALB posted:

You didn't mention any thing specifically so I'll just throw this out there- go discs all around so the thing will always stop. If you're thinking of 5x205 mm bolt pattern wheels spend the few extra dollars and go with the aluminum Vintage 190's- they are so worth it. If you come from somewhere with real seasons, talk to Carey about seat heaters to extend your driving season.

@Sam Brown wrote- "I know I’m asking for more maintenance and “dialing it in” in my future, but practicality wasn’t really part of the deal when I wrote the check..."

A word of advice- if you're not already somewhat familiar with VW aircooled engines,  not a tinkerer, not prepared to spend time learning about oil changes, valve/timing/carburetor adjustments and a mechanic will be doing the maintenance on you car- call Carey first thing Monday morning and have the conversation about putting Subaru power in your car. I'm not trying to be difficult or insulting- I want your ownership of this car to be successful/enjoyable and you to own this car for a long time, but for too many people the romantic visions of ownership- jumping in at a moment's notice and driving off here and there with the wind in the hair (or scalp, as the case may be) doesn't meet the reality- the car sitting more than it's driven because, being aircooled, it's almost constantly in need of tweeking. The VW Beetle aircooled engine is technology from 60-70 years ago (when the automotive world was barely out of it's infancy), requires a lot of maintenance by today's standards, hotrodded engines need to be monitored more closely than normal and if you don't know what to expect it could ruin the experience.

Please don't take this the wrong way- I want you to enjoy your car and be a contributing member here for a long time. Al

Thanks Al, I had been thinking about the 5x205’s, but also baby moon’s, so wasn't sure it was really necessary, but I’m going to file this away under “don’t regret it later.”  And seat heaters are also on my mind.  I live in MD, and this will hopefully get me an extra month on both sides of top-down season.  I’d say these are more likely than not.

I don’t take any offense by your push to Subaru power.  But I’m decided and not going back.  This car is a hobby and learning how to manage timing, and all the rest, is part of that hobby.  A buddy of mine keeps his inherited Austin Healey 3000 in my garage (I’m lucky enough to have the space) and he drives it frequently.  I feel like I’ve had a front row seat to what it means to care for an air cooled engine.  I am not a mechanic and it’s gonna be a lot to learn, but I’m an enthusiastic student.

It sounds like you have the right attitude!

I do have to say there are more than a few very nice Speedsters that are bought new and sold some years later with less than 1000 miles on them , many with less than 500 miles. Without fail they are all aircooled VW powered. They are offered with low miles  because the owners found the driving experience lacking their expectation and sold them. I would recommend driving a Speedster with both drivetrains before dropping $40k . The time to do so will be well worth it. I have been an aircooled guy for over 35 years and was happy to switch to the modern fuel injected technology and drivable power that  encourages me to drive my Speedster many thousands of miles with a giant smile on my face as I zip around town and on the interstate with 180hp and 160ft/lbs of Suby torque on tap. The closest thing you will get to that with an aircooled  VW based engine will cost as much or more and will be in most cases fragile, finicky and in the end break your heart and drain your wallet. Been there and done that.

That said. I hope you enjoy your choice without regret, as there are many on this site that love the vintage aircooled approach. I hope you become one of them in the end.

Sam,

Welcome to the Madness!

Oops, almost forgot our traditional blessing!  X2 what Stan said. 👍

Well if you listen to many of the comments you need to abort the Beck Speedster and buy a mid 90s 911 targa or cabriolet  .heated seats power windows cruise control ect .Sitting in traffic on495 or any other interstate is no fun regardless of car engine . My point is I wanted a replica of a speedster through and through You have selected in my opinion the best manufacture. To me the air cooled motors represent what Porsches have always been especially in the speedster era my two cents I could not stand by and read the comments  in devaluating the air cooled cars . option 3  get a Subaru Forrester  LOL I agree part of the hobby is caring for your car valve adjustments changing oil and filters all fun .and of course if you have the money to purchase a Beck you have the money to take it to the local VW guru and have theses things done .

No offense to anyone just my two Cents 

Pete

Pete speaks sense.  While I didn’t ALWAYS enjoy working on my car, it connects you to the hobby in a way that checkbook maintenance never will.  I fully expect that the new coupe, Subi power and all, will still require my skilled (stop laughing) ministrations on occasion.  Getting the first one pretty much guarantees I’ll have to get my hands dirty.

Sam, if you go air cooled and get it sorted out, you should be able to use it without major headaches. I use mine as almost a daily driver in any weather above 50 with the top down, having to change the oil and valve adjustments are second nature after awhile, I've never been stranded, but can work on it if needed not being overly complicated with electrical things. Changed the transmission to a more friendly highway gearing and changed rear tire size so highway  @ 70mph is now 2800 rpm and no overheating, very rarely if ever have to put a wrench to it. Good luck with whatever you decide..

I've had, like others, both air cooled and water cooled versions of Porsche replicas and one CMC Gazelle. While satisfied with the air cool engines I was never happy with the high-revs needed to move out, valve rattle & adjustments, carburetor sync'ing and oil stained garage floors. The lack of A/C while living in Florida made stop and go traffic nearly unbearable.  The main appeal of 356 based replicas is appearance and the attention they attract. Secondary to appearance are comfort and performance. Depending where, when and how long a person drives, A/C and comfortable seats need to considered. A long cruise in sweltering weather and on unforgiving seats can soon turn your car into a "garage queen". Last comment on air-cooled engines, unless one installs an actual Porsche engine with available OEM parts, finding air-cooled VW mechanics and genuine OEM parts might be more difficult than anticipated. There's no need to go into the poor quality of the Chinese replacement parts. As far as the sound of carburetors sucking air, I've seen them installed on Subys.  Test drive before you decide...

I'm just saying

Agreed on most points Nolan.

I'll bet Carey isn't going to do a Suby Beck with carbs. I'd bet a good amount of money on that. He has a formula that works with engines and ECU and radiator etc. and he isn't going to futz with what works for most people.

Pete Ortiz posted:

Well if you listen to many of the comments you need to abort the Beck Speedster...

To me the air cooled motors represent what Porsches have always been especially in the speedster era my two cents I could not stand by and read the comments  in devaluating the air cooled cars . option 3  get a Subaru Forrester  LOL I agree part of the hobby is caring for your car valve adjustments changing oil and filters all fun .and of course if you have the money to purchase a Beck you have the money to take it to the local VW guru and have theses things done .

No offense to anyone just my two Cents 

Pete

I agree with you whole heartedly, Pete, that "the aircooled engines represent what Porsches have always been especially in the Speedster". I also disagree with the comments "devaluating (I don't think that's a word but it fits and we know the point you're going for) the aircooled cars" but everybody is entitled to their opinions. If you've been on here for any length of time, though, you've undoubtedly seen how aircooled Speedsters come up for sale occasionally with very little mileage for their age, and it's usually for the reasons I mentioned above. There are people who get involved with these cars and it's just not a good fit. We've seen this on here time and time again- the dream of roaring around all over the place with the top down and wind in your hair just doesn't meet with the reality of the garage smelling like gas, learning to start an engine and babying it until it's partly warmed up because there's no cold start mode (or even chokes) and you're worried about blowing the oil filter, having to keep a watchful eye on the gauges in hotter weather for signs of overheating, the top leaking (and the car filling with water) when it rains, there being no real (by anything close to modern standards) heat, having to wipe off the inside of the windshield in colder weather, and I'm sure our compatriots here could add to the list.

These are not modern cars, and for some people a Speedster purchase (especially with an aircooled engine) is a mistake. They're in love with the iconic shape but they expect a modern car underneath, and an aircooled Speedster simply isn't it. In the last year (or 2) there was a couple on the forum that was "so in love with Speedsters- they are so cool!" (or something like that). They were trying to decide between one of these cars and a Miata or 370Z convertible- when a lot of the points above were mentioned they decided on the Miata (or maybe it was the 370Z- it doesn't really matter) and were never heard from again. Then there was the lady (somewhere in the midwest?) who figured on making a Speedster her year-round daily driver (I got the impression she wouldn't have lasted 3 days of full on winter!)- she disappeared rather quickly as well.

The point is- these cars (especially when aircooled) aren't for everybody. They're cranky, temperamental with unique handling quirks that can get you in a lot of trouble if you're not careful. Subaru power, while not exactly 'period' at least broadens the fan base and makes our hobby that little bit more 'mainstream'. And as our cars are all replicas, none carry P serial #'s and will never be original (if we were to be as period correct as possible we'd all be running 6 volt electrical systems, 4 or 4½" wide rims, tall and skinny antique Coker tires, drum brakes and hotrodding 36 hp engines- oh, that would be fun!), I see nothing wrong with welcoming a few more into the fold (and I like to think I'm as staunchly on the aircooled side as it gets). As our beloved Uncle Stan has said- "it's a big tent, with room for all".  

@Sam Brown, I commend you for taking on the challenge! There'll be some investing of tools and at times it will be a little frustrating, but between Youtube videos (note now that not all are correct- ask here first!) and the advice you'll get here you'll make it happen. Do you consider yourself mechanically inclined? A car guy?

 PS-

@Lane Anderson wrote- " While I didn’t ALWAYS enjoy working on my car, it connects you to the hobby in a way that checkbook maintenance never will. "

I regret that I have but 1 like for that comment. Working on your own car teaches you to learn it's language, and if you connect with it and learn to listen to what it's telling you it will never lie.. _{(that last part, as much as I like it and would like to claim it as my own, is paraphrased from Bob Hoover)}

I have worked on my Subaru powered car plenty and 30-40 other vintage cars of many types. I disagree with the statement that implies that those who choose a different drivetrain don't connect to there cars or the hobby. I know every sound and feel that all of my cars make and know the second something changes and look to find the reason myself, I don't send the car to a shop to do that. I for one found the power and torque of the Subaru engine to be a great compliment to the light body of our toy cars. I don't fault anyone for choosing to have their car powered by whatever type of engine or electric motor they wish to use. The new guy was asking for our experience and suggestions and somehow the comments of some turned to assuming some of us don't connect to our cars on a mechanical level. We are here to support the enjoyment of our cars in whatever way that is for each of us, if by checkbook or wrench and everyway in between. Amen brothers!

Jimmy V. posted:

I have worked on my Subaru powered car plenty and 30-40 other vintage cars of many types. I disagree with the statement that implies that those who choose a different drivetrain don't connect to there cars or the hobby....

 

You are right, Jimmy, there are a lot of guys that are right into their cars even though they have a different drive train, but all the comments above are valid as well. For some a Speedster is a new toy and distraction and it doesn't take long for the shine to wear off.

Rear lights: Beehive or teardrop?

Wheel: Nardi, banjo, or classic w/ horn ring?

"Working on your own car teaches you to learn it's language".

Well, I've worked on my own car a lot and have learned a whole new language at times, none of it repeatable on here.....    

Sam:  Bee Hives or Tear Drops?  Doesn't matter.  Whatever YOU like.  Just remember that, unless you want to duplicate a late 1956 356 (Beehives and three-gauge dash for about 4 months only in 1956), then Beehives = 2-gauge dash, while tear drops = three gauge dash.

Nardi, Banjo or Classic?  Again, whatever YOU like, but the classic with the horn ring can be easily set up such that the horn button beeps the horn, while the ring flashes the headlights - pretty handy and Über cool!  All three look great, depending on the rest of the interior.

Gordon Nichols posted:

"Working on your own car teaches you to learn it's language".

Well, I've worked on my own car a lot and have learned a whole new language at times, none of it repeatable on here.....    

Sam:  Bee Hives or Tear Drops?  Doesn't matter.  Whatever YOU like.  Just remember that, unless you want to duplicate a late 1956 356 (Beehives and three-gauge dash for about 4 months only in 1956), then Beehives = 2-gauge dash, while tear drops = three gauge dash.

Nardi, Banjo or Classic?  Again, whatever YOU like, but the classic with the horn ring can be easily set up such that the horn button beeps the horn, while the ring flashes the headlights - pretty handy and Über cool!  All three look great, depending on the rest of the interior.

Thanks Gordon!  This is the kind of feedback I was hoping to get.  You mentioned “...depending on the rest of the interior”, please say more.  You’ve got an opinion, I’d love to hear it!

Thanks

Sam Brown posted:

Rear lights: Beehive or teardrop?

Wheel: Nardi, banjo, or classic w/ horn ring?

 

Whatever your vision is, Sam. Guys will go on about how for this year this is correct but your car doesn't have a Porsche vin # so it doen't really matter. If you feel the need to build it to some factory build for a particular year, that's up to you, but remember it is not and will never be a real Porsche, so do whatever the hell you want. Want the early beehive look with the 3 gauges on the dash- go for it! Want to pull all the side trim and badging off and lower it a little- the P crowd won't approve (don't worry, a lot of them don't think much of our cars anyway) but we'll all think it's very cool! The bigger and more badas* the engine, the better!

I don't think any of us run drums all around, historically correct tall, skinny tires or a dinky hotrodded 36 hp engine... _{(think big evil laugh here!)}   Al

ALB posted:

Sam Brown posted:

Rear lights: Beehive or teardrop?

Wheel: Nardi, banjo, or classic w/ horn ring?

 

Whatever your vision is, Sam. Guys will go on about how for this year this is correct but your car doesn't have a Porsche vin # so it doen't really matter. If you feel the need to build it to some factory build for a particular year, that's up to you, but remember it is not and will never be a real Porsche, so do whatever the hell you want. Want the early beehive look with the 3 gauges on the dash- go for it! Want to pull all the side trim and badging off and lower it a little- the P crowd won't approve (don't worry, a lot of them don't think much of our cars anyway) but we'll all think it's very cool! The bigger and more badas* the engine, the better

I don't think any of us run drums all around, historically correct tall, skinny tires or a dinky hotrodded 36 hp engine... _{(think big evil laugh here!)}   Al

Yup, I’m perfectly comfortable making my own choices here.  Looking for some inspiration from all of your previous experiences and wisdom gained from what worked out the way you thought, what was less successful than you hoped, that sort of thing.  My personal preferences tend towards ‘historical’, but I’m not trying to make a “fake” either.

Hi Sam,

Welcome to the forum.  I just read all the posts above.  I'm not trying to be contrary, but I don't think you will learn much about air-cooled engines from your buddy's AH 3000 that's in your garage.  Maybe you meant something other than what you typed, or maybe I read your post wrong, but, barring an engine swap, his engine is water-cooled.

This is a great forum that has lots of collective wisdom on our replica hobby.  You'll get lots of advice, some of which you may have even asked about.  

http://www.beckspeedster.com/preownedbeckinventory

Check this Beck in their used inventory.  Truly the best of 4 cyl air-cooled world.

Jim Kelly posted:

Hi Sam,

Welcome to the forum.  I just read all the posts above.  I'm not trying to be contrary, but I don't think you will learn much about air-cooled engines from your buddy's AH 3000 that's in your garage.  Maybe you meant something other than what you typed, or maybe I read your post wrong, but, barring an engine swap, his engine is water-cooled.

This is a great forum that has lots of collective wisdom on our replica hobby.  You'll get lots of advice, some of which you may have even asked about.  

Jim, you’re of course correct on the Healey, I got sloppy with my words.  Was trying to allude to “process“ I’ve witnessed with my buddy managing his carbs.

Sam Brown posted:

Rear lights: Beehive or teardrop?

Wheel: Nardi, banjo, or classic w/ horn ring?

 

Personal choices only the owner should make. Which is why there are so many choices to make. If it was one size fits all our cars would all look the same. And thaw ould be boring.

Whatever choices you end up making, you will regret some in time.  Just take your best shot at making the car the way you want it, and be happy with how it ends up.  Certain changes can be made once you drive the car for awhile, but others take more effort and money.

Best thing to do is what @MusbJim does: Buy a basic Speedster with a nicely built 1915 air cooled engine, 4-wheel disc brakes and the transaxle of your builder's choice (after you tell him where and how you expect to be driving it), pick the wheels (Vintage 190s are very in) set the stance and 

DRIVE IT ALL THE BLESSED TIME.

Beware long technical threads on this (and other) car guy forums hashing out the merits of various carb sizes and brand names, fuel injection and turbo solutions and/or gear ratio choices. They will rob you of precious hours of your finite life, and the men who make them are weenies* who will attempt to convert you to their garage-bound, joyless lifestyle.

Be like Jim. Buy a cool-ass Speedster and drive happy.

==

*myself very much included.

edsnova posted:

Best thing to do is what @MusbJim does: Buy a basic Speedster with a nicely built 1915 air cooled engine, 4-wheel disc brakes and the transaxle of your builder's choice (after you tell him where and how you expect to be driving it), pick the wheels (Vintage 190s are very in) set the stance and 

DRIVE IT ALL THE BLESSED TIME.

Beware long technical threads on this (and other) car guy forums hashing out the merits of various carb sizes and brand names, fuel injection and turbo solutions and/or gear ratio choices. They will rob you of precious hours of your finite life, and the men who make them are weenies* who will attempt to convert you to their garage-bound, joyless lifestyle.

Be like Jim. Buy a cool-ass Speedster and drive happy.

==

*myself very much included.

Love this, thanks @edsnova.  I think this is a direct hit on my approach to the Beck order.

So.......  steering wheels versus the interior; 

Some wheels look better against a darker (or lighter) background.  Also, a “classic” looking wheel, like a white banjo or white classic tensioner might not look as good against a more modern (sculpted) interior, whereas against a classic interior (read that simple, flat) it might look better.  

Wooden steering wheels (Nardi, MOMO, even some classier Grants) look good with almost any interior color, so then the lightness of the wood grain, the spoke shape and configuration comes into play and, again, the final look is up to you.

Lastly, you may like the look of a leather-wrapped wheel.  We don’t see many of those (the two or three I’ve seen have been black) but in the right interior they can look special.

Sometimes you “luck out”.  My car, originally, was black gel coat and I chose a deep Burgundy red interior similar to a Pontiac Wildcat from the 1960’s that an uncle had.  It looked really rich.  But then I decided to go with a pearl white exterior and kept the burgundy interior because my Mom had a 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 XL with the same color combo and it pops.

My car is a widebody (mild fender flares)  -  it is more of a 356 hot rod than a classic, so I can get away with some ideas that are out there a bit, like a rosewood Nardi-like steering wheel, burgundy interior, Celtic Knot horn button (we’re both Irish), nerf bars instead of bumpers and a few other things, but all that adds up to my individual taste.

Have fun with yours!

Sam Brown posted:

Rear lights: Beehive or teardrop?

Wheel: Nardi, banjo, or classic w/ horn ring?

 

I've always preferred the bee hives over the tear drops.  That said, I have tear drops on mine.  

As far as steering wheels, that may be one where you should really try getting in an out of the car.  There are a few different size steering wheels.  Some believe the banjo wheel flexes too much for their liking, while others feel it is fine.  

While this forum is amazing, one thing you will find is that it is all a matter of personal opinions.  And unfortunately (or fortunately), that's going to require buying things that don't really work for you. 

The best advice is to try to test drive as many different speedsters as possible.  That should help you in your exploration.

Don't worry, Sam, whatever you build, we'll love it, whether it's a classic with bumpers and perfect paint or something a little  'less traditional'. Whatever you do, have fun with it!

Sam, if no one has mentioned it, you should look into coming to Carlisle, PA with us for the spring Import and Replicar show, third weekend in May.  Lots of info under “Events” on this site.

Once there, you’ll get to see a bunch of cars from all different builders and each with interesting different twists added by the owner.  Most of us will let you drive our cars, too, so you’ll get an idea of differences and similarities and answer any and all questions you might have.  The “Hines Boys” are usually there from Special Edition, too.

Plus, we’re a pretty good bunch of people to hang around with.

While we had our Speedsters lined up at Carlisle last year more than a few people walking around the event thought our cars were authentic real deal Speedsters.  I was surprised and amused. They had no idea of the rarity of real factory Porsche Speedsters and what they sell for today. So then it is no surprise they were under the impression we all had the real deal. We set them straight and they all still loved our cars. The event was a blast. I am trying to arrange my schedule to come for my second Carlisle event this year.

What Jimmy said!

Been going since 2006, haven't missed one. Great people, great friends, great cars.

Come, look at them, try them on, drive them, and figure out what options you "must" have. It's a blast. But really, it's the people. My wife was hesitant the first year, but she wouldn't miss it now that she went.

Hi all, I had an amazing visit with Carey at the Beck shop this morning.  It was like being 12 years old in a candy shop again.  Lane, I saw your super coupe in the flesh, looked great.

All the decisions have been made and all I have to do now is sit patiently for 3-4 more months...

Here are some shots of my chassis and body to commemorate the occasion.

It's going to be very cool, Sam!