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Looks like I might need a new engine

FM Former Member
The short story is, the engine has a problem and won't run. At the very least I have one very bent pushrod (#3 intake). I don't know what caused it so I don't really know the extent of the damage to the engine till I get it apart. I have been wanting to get a new engine, but was having a hard time convincing my wife that I needed one...until today...did I mention she was actually the one driving when the engine quit? Is that sweet or what!

For those interested in a challenge I will list all the details I can about the incident, and anyone interested can post their guess on the cause. Winner gets bragging rights. There is no money for a prize as all my money is now going towards a new engine.

The long story with details is as follows. Light turns green, car stalls when we try to go. Start it again, runs a bit poorly but runs, kind of surges, to next red light. Light turns green, car stalls again. Harder to start this time. Starts and quits a couple of times. Finally get it running and start to go... big bang. Sounds like a backfire out the carb. I'm thinking it's just cuz maybe it was almost flooded. It quits again, and now will hardly turn over.

Put the flashers on and get out for a look. Engine is very hot. I can barely hold on to the dip stick. Lots of oil though. I look under the car and notice oil dripping, notice bent pushrod tube, end pulled out of block and oil leaking out from there.

So I get back in, back the car off the road and call a tow truck.

Other details that may or may not have happened today. One of the air cleaner cover studs is missing. I undo the other wingnut and pull the air cleaner. The stud is laying on top of the carb. No pieces of the stud missing. The wing nut and washer from the stud are missing, but they were on the outside of the air cleaner and could not have gotten inside the engine. I can't find them in the engine compartment however. I have had a wing nut and washer come off before and can always find them laying somewhere in the engine compartment. Not this time. The stud did not unthread. It is broken off. It would have just hung there until the wing nut vibrated off and then it would have dropped in so it probably didn't happen at the same time as the pushrod. I checked the oil last time I drove it, and though it is possible I didn't notice the wingnut and stud missing, that is unlikely.

Also, drivers side air inlet tube that runs from the doghouse to the heater box has come apart (blown apart?) where it goes through the tin. It is not too obvious so it is possible this happened earlier and I didn't notice it.

That's it for details at the moment. Any guesses?
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FM Former Member
The short story is, the engine has a problem and won't run. At the very least I have one very bent pushrod (#3 intake). I don't know what caused it so I don't really know the extent of the damage to the engine till I get it apart. I have been wanting to get a new engine, but was having a hard time convincing my wife that I needed one...until today...did I mention she was actually the one driving when the engine quit? Is that sweet or what!

For those interested in a challenge I will list all the details I can about the incident, and anyone interested can post their guess on the cause. Winner gets bragging rights. There is no money for a prize as all my money is now going towards a new engine.

The long story with details is as follows. Light turns green, car stalls when we try to go. Start it again, runs a bit poorly but runs, kind of surges, to next red light. Light turns green, car stalls again. Harder to start this time. Starts and quits a couple of times. Finally get it running and start to go... big bang. Sounds like a backfire out the carb. I'm thinking it's just cuz maybe it was almost flooded. It quits again, and now will hardly turn over.

Put the flashers on and get out for a look. Engine is very hot. I can barely hold on to the dip stick. Lots of oil though. I look under the car and notice oil dripping, notice bent pushrod tube, end pulled out of block and oil leaking out from there.

So I get back in, back the car off the road and call a tow truck.

Other details that may or may not have happened today. One of the air cleaner cover studs is missing. I undo the other wingnut and pull the air cleaner. The stud is laying on top of the carb. No pieces of the stud missing. The wing nut and washer from the stud are missing, but they were on the outside of the air cleaner and could not have gotten inside the engine. I can't find them in the engine compartment however. I have had a wing nut and washer come off before and can always find them laying somewhere in the engine compartment. Not this time. The stud did not unthread. It is broken off. It would have just hung there until the wing nut vibrated off and then it would have dropped in so it probably didn't happen at the same time as the pushrod. I checked the oil last time I drove it, and though it is possible I didn't notice the wingnut and stud missing, that is unlikely.

Also, drivers side air inlet tube that runs from the doghouse to the heater box has come apart (blown apart?) where it goes through the tin. It is not too obvious so it is possible this happened earlier and I didn't notice it.

That's it for details at the moment. Any guesses?
Ron ORon O1984/2010 IM, B.C. Canada
I don't have an answer, but if misery likes company...well, my NEW motor is in and sort of running. When I say sort of I mean that when it's cold it runs on three cylinders and when it warms up it runs on all four cylinders. Spark is good, fuel is good. My guess is a cylinder-to-block leak or head-to-cylinder leak. I will have to do a compression check to be sure (those damn, small 044 sparkplug holes!) If you're thinking of a new motor, then I think Darren is the builder you want.
Interestingly enough, if my Ford Ranger 4x4 pickup gave me 1/10 the trouble my IM or 911 pickup gives me I'd sell it. Does this mean I'm an air cooled masochist? (I do like leather).
Ron
FM Former Member
I have pulled the valve cover. The rockers look and feel fine, at least without turning the engine over and relieving pressure off the rocker arms. I did notice that the breather hose was no longer connected to the valve cover. That combined with the heater ducting being split in two might indicate a 'sudden violent movement' of the engine.

I should be able to tell about the cam gear by turning the engine over and seeing if the rockers go up and down. I'll wait for others to place their bets before I reveal the results of that.

Ron, I as you know I was already thinking about a new engine. I have already talked to Jake, and Tommy at Scat. I will probably talk to Darren, and Pat at CB as well. It always gets interesting when trying to compare oranges to apples! I'd love to get a Raby 2316 but the price is out of my league. Maybe a 2275?
Ron ORon O1984/2010 IM, B.C. Canada
Unfortunately, if you get a motor from the US it is going to cost a bundle: dollar exchange, taxes (14.5%), plus duty. I agree that a Jake Raby motor would be nice, but I don't think that you can use heater boxes with his motors. Darren is probably the best VW type one engine builder in B.C. and is one of the best head porters on the west coast. He built my 1776 and it ran fine for 5k, but when I had the motor taken apart, for an 82 mm crank, we found that one of the heads had a nasty crack. I don't know if it was his fault or just one of those things.
Ron
FM Former Member
Ron O., what you describe could be caused by an intake valve that has no adjustment clearance on the cold mis-firing cylinder (if the valve stays open there won't be enough compression and there will be inversion). As the engine warms up the clearances will also open up which could allow the valve to fully close so that the cylinder would now function properly.
FM Former Member
Ron: Last summer I bent a valve on my 2007. Rather than just replace that one valve how ever I was able to rationalize a new motor. I hooked up with Darren we talked about what I wanted to do and the best combinations of parts. I bought the parts and he put it together. I did the out and the install. This was by far the most economical route. Probably 6k Canadian including my drysump system (although I never added up all the receipts). The only parts I used from my old motor were carbs, alternator and tin. I have even sold some of my old parts! It might be a bit different now with the weak US dollar but labour here is still cheap.
FM Former Member
Thanks for the offer Jake. I'm in no big hurry to figure out the problem. I'm taking the path Bruce took and using this as an excuse to get a new larger engine. Once I get the new engine in the car I will rebuild this engine. In the mean time I'll just pull it apart and see what happened. What's the time line on the DTM for Type 1 Jake?

The idea of trying to guess the cause of the failure was just for fun. I'm not relying on anyones guesses to help me fix it. I just thought it might be fun to try and guess and see if anyone can luck out with the cause.

And while on the topic of a new engine, I'm interested to know what you think makes for a good engine. If you would building one, what would be the key specs. At this point I am looking at 2332 (84x94). I want good low end torque so am looking at a long stroke. I'd go 86x94 like George but that's just a bit too unusual for me. I like more off the shelf type stuff better. I'm also leaning towards high lift short duration cams, using 1.4s.

How about advice on compression ratios. I would like to run 92 octane if possible, but don't know what I can get away with as far as compression ratio.

I need heater boxes so will go 1 5/8", and will also need to pass a smog test. Any advice on that front?
FM Former Member
Chris, don't talk to me about how you are going without heat. So far your speedster hasn't left your garage! Is your garage heated? Come on now, fess up. The fact is I don't need heat, but my wife does. As it is now, I wear a t-shirt in the middle of winter so when my wife is warm enough I am not sweltering.

As for a T4, sure I'd love one, and have not ruled it out totally. The question is, can I afford one? I guess I need to give Jake another call to find out for sure.
FM Former Member
Actually my garage gets pretty cold in the winter. Will need to fire up that propane heater in order to get any work done soon.

I was actually thinking about the TIV from the perspective of being across the border. On one hand, the Canadian dollar is actually making ground on the US dollar, so you might actually start to get a deal.

As for the taxes or import fees, you probably get stung if you buy it there or if you buy it in the US. Need to do the math on that.

One other thing to consider, which I have started to run into, are TIV parts are much harder to find/get than TI parts, and thats here in this VW meca of Seattle. They are here, just just have to dig around. Not sure what the TIV scene is across the border. Have many buses or 914's up there?
Ron ORon O1984/2010 IM, B.C. Canada
Okay, I'll admit it..I'm a girlie man who like heat. Like the other Ron, I wear a tee shirt while my wife wears a thick sweater and a jacket. But, heat is nice when the temperature starts to dip into the high 40s/low 50's.
Ron, getting a set of 1 5/8" heater boxes is going to be a difficult and expensive task. My custom exhaust system, with the big boxes, was just plain 'stupid' expensive.
Also, if you're going with an 84mm crank go with the best you can afford. I was going to put an 84 in my motor, but I was concerned about crank flex. An 84 mm crank (with big journals) was out of my price range, so I settled for the 82. Even with the 82 there was a lot of clearancing involved.
Ron
FM Former Member
My 86mm Scat 4340 forged ultra-light flanged crankshaft has type 4 center main (case is stock size, uses an adapter bearing) and Chevrolet (actually Buick) 2" rod journals. Scat also has all type 4 main cranks for type 1 engines but you have to get the case machined. One of the new CB or other aluminum aftermarket engine cases (some are pre-clearanced for up to 86mm stroke) should work well with a big stroker crankshaft.

Use GOOD rods and rod bolts.
FM Former Member
Hey Bruce, it's good to hear from you.

Doesn't everyone have a spare engine for their speedster?!? Actually, I thought I would put a wild cam in it, get the heads ported out, and put it in a plain looking beetle. It should be good for a few surprises.

What is a knock retard unit?

So to summerize, you think I should be OK with 9:1, I don't need heat, and get as much power as I can afford.

What size wheels and tires are you running Bruce?
Thanks.
FM Former Member
Once upon a time I was a motorcycle dealer for a few years (BMW, Laverda, Ducati, Moto Guzzi). During that time I learned of 2 people killed and several seriously injured or maimed from crashes caused by riding unfamiliar (borrowed) high performance motorcycles. "Let's be careful out there..."
FM Former Member
A knock retard unit retards the timing when it hears the motor start to knock. It is insurance against bad gas and too much heat.

Yes you should be fine with 9:1 but it will depend on you heads.

More power is more fun but there will always be someone who is faster. If you really want to go fast there are better platforms to start from. These cars are more about style.

195/50/15
FM Former Member
Bruce, if you really want to go fast and have a car that handles like a group 7 racer buy a nice 1966 Corvair with 4-speed ('66 and later uses the V8 Saginaw 4-speed trans), a Crown Chevrolet V8 conversion kit, and drop a 350 LT1 with bow-tie heads and one big 4-bbl carb in the backseat. Radiator goes up front with an air intake cutout under the bumper. Chevelle front disk brakes and Gabriel shocks highly recommended...
FM Former Member
Bruce, if it's the rear main seal leaking and you replace it, seat the seal deeply into the case recess; it should not just be flush with the engine case casting's boss surface.

KYMCO has a neat special tool for removing/installing the big flywheel gland nut.

If the engine has been balanced be sure to note the "witness marks" (or make your own marks) so that the clutch pressure plate goes back on the same way it came off. if you have a dowel-pin crank the flywheel whould only go on one way (one pin is offset).
FM Former Member
I suspect that if the push rod tube is on the same side as the broken air cleaner shaft that this is a result of the shaft piece blocking the closing of the intake valve. I bet it is an easy fix. A matter of pulling the head and reseating the valve replacing the push rod and replacing the tube. Let's see what the real problem will cost. A new engine is nice but I bet the engine is a cheap fix. These engines are cheap and durable.
Bob: IM S6Bob: IM S62016 Intermeccanica S6 Supporting Member
Well, I just said above that I was happy with my engine. That was before I blew the second oil filter on a cold morning start-up. I have been careful to not rev the engine before it warms up, but with Webers and no choke, it's difficult to maintain a steady idle at first.

I have gone from 20W50 with a Bosch filter; to 10W40 with a Bosch filter; and now to 10W30 with a Fram HP1 filter.

I spoke to the engine builder and he said these these HP engines with remote oil filters and coolers can blow the filter at start up. He recommended 10W30 and the Fram HP1 filter - says that's what he puts in the engines he builds, especially ones with 911 cooling fans. Others have said the same re: filters exploding in these cars, while others say the problem must be a stuck relief valve or something.

So, I'll try again tomorrow morning if it's a little cold (just below freezing both times the filter blew), and see what happens. Sure makes a mess of my driveway, but I live in the country so don't have to worry too much, except for destroying a little bit of Mother Earth each time.

George recommended hooking up an oil pressure gauge to see exactly what the pressure is at start up, and I will do that also.

FM Former Member
It bites when things go wrong. That's when I try to remember how much fun it is to drive the car! Interestingly, I believe both Bruce and Bob have the same engine builder. Not that I think that is the problem, cuz I don't. It's just interesting.

Bob, your problem is interesting because I can't think of why the oil pressure would be so high at start-up. All the oil is in the pan. The engine cranks and the oil pump starts to push oil into the filter on its way into the engine. What is causing the pressure to boost at start-up? Sure oil is thicker when cold - you should go to 5-50 weight oil (or 5-something) as that will help. Could it be that the filter outlet is being blocked by too high an oil level? Does your external oil cooler drain into the engine when the engine sits and when it's cold and the oil is too deep and thick and it won't move?

As for my problem, I haven't had time to get into the garage to look into it any further. Hopefully tomorrow. I have talked to a number of builders and now have a lot of options to consider. Maybe I should just go to 86 stroke and 101.6 bore....OK, maybe not.
Ron ORon O1984/2010 IM, B.C. Canada
Bruce, I know what you mean about being frustrated. If my IM were any other car it would be GONE. It does get to me, when I have one small problem after another and another. When I get really frustrated, I start cruising the Car Trader for used Honda S2000s and older Boxsters. Then my wife says, "You love that car...you'll get it running right". And she's probably right.
Bruce, I know you're running a big motor. And, with your big motor and 45 Dells you passed the idle test...which is the one that I almost always fail. I'm hoping that my CD box and Mallory distributor will help.
Ron
Bob: IM S6Bob: IM S62016 Intermeccanica S6 Supporting Member
Ron L:

I spoke to Henry about this the first time it happened, and we blamed it on the heavy summer oil and a cool Fall morning. But he also said he has seen this happen in the summer with a big motor. I have also read in other places of this potential with an HP motor, but it does seem strange.

I am going to check the oil pressure and the relief valve. No other problems with the engine other than that - it runs great and has enough power and torque, and the car is great to drive. So, I'm not looking for a used Boxster or Honda 2000 yet (hello, Ron O).

Bob
FM Former Member
I got to spend a few hours in the garage today. The only pushrod that looks bent is the #3 intake. It is still sitting under the rocker arm, and moves up and down when the engine is turned over. It won't open the valve however as the pushrod is now too short, being bent.

The surprise was that the exhaust pushrod on #3 is not moving. The valve stays closed. I have not checked to see if the valve is stuck yet, but if it was stuck closed, wouldn't that pushrod bend, or break, when the cam pushes on the pushrod? And once it was bent or broken it would be loose under the rocker arm. At this point it is tight. How could it be that the cam isn't moving the exhaust port pushrod?

I guess the head comes off next after I figure out how to get the tin off!
FM Former Member
"Bob: One possible cause is that there is a lot of restriction for the oil between the filter and the engine. If you have narrow lines, 90 degree fittings and small rough passages in the oil filter adapter these will all add to the elevated pressure in the oil canister."

Good point for all of us with coolers. Thanks Bruce!

Jim Ward
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